Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: mx22 on January 25, 2000, 10:23:00 AM

Title: Favorite 109 ...
Post by: mx22 on January 25, 2000, 10:23:00 AM
Hey guys,

Lemme take a turn and start a small rant in here  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

What's everyone's favorite 109 in AH and why?

I'm flying my lovely F-4 version. Started flying it a while ago, while I still used to fly Warbirds. Now when I started AH it only seemed logical to start from where I left. Plus, it's the best turning plane of them all (I mean of those 109 versions available in AH). Nothing's better then to surprise people with how good 109 can acctually turn   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

Also, does anyone flies G-10? I seen a post yesterday with comparisionof 109 versions and it seemed like G-10 is not all the better then G-6.

Regards,

mx22

[This message has been edited by mx22 (edited 01-25-2000).]
Title: Favorite 109 ...
Post by: Hristo on January 25, 2000, 10:30:00 AM
Favourite 109 ? K-4 by far !

But G-10 is fine too  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Title: Favorite 109 ...
Post by: Swager on January 25, 2000, 11:02:00 AM
Been flying the G-6 with gondolas.  HO me anytime baby!!!!

Turned a P51 into scrap metal the other night.  Cool!  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/cool.gif)

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Damn Ghostrider!  This bogey is all over me!!
Title: Favorite 109 ...
Post by: combat23 on January 25, 2000, 11:18:00 AM
I like the G2. Its faster than the F and climbs faster. Dosen't turn quite as good but not bad. Had to change my sitck button set up to handle all the retrimming> (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) seems like I'm trimming the whole time I in the air.

see ya on line
Title: Favorite 109 ...
Post by: dolomite on January 25, 2000, 12:16:00 PM
I like the F4 best, but fly the G2 more. Nothing like running into an enemy 109 and it be a better climbing type with only marginally inferior turn.  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Title: Favorite 109 ...
Post by: juzz on January 25, 2000, 12:34:00 PM
I don't get it.

Why fly the G-6 when the G-10 is faster, and equal or better at everything else?

Must be the paintjob...
Title: Favorite 109 ...
Post by: DoctorYO on January 25, 2000, 02:53:00 PM
I'm am a little biased when it comes to the 109f4 but i think HT need to make some revisions on the low speed handling and especially the turn radii of the 109f4..  under 200mph the controls go mush but thats a whole nother story.

Rated in Order:

109f4  (currently the dogstar, low speed handling is mush and its turn radius at 200 mph is about te same as a G-10, Please Fix... other than that it holds energy around 300mph very well under light manuevering and is very fun to down aircraft with mg only... they can't shake you with a well managed throttle)

109g-10 (best fighter in the game; nothing can touch it when flown correctly... spit/pony dweebs die by the hundreds from this killing machine)

109g6 (good all around fighter but bubbles obstruct my view, well save this plane for Hartman WTB's...)

109g2 (Good fighter all around, nice to see 2 good luck charms on my wings)


regards,


DoctorYO
Title: Favorite 109 ...
Post by: Sorrow[S=A] on January 25, 2000, 06:47:00 PM
G10 for me, it's a twitchy little bastard, very tricky under wep but I fly it with Gondolas and 30mm, and go hunting buffs at 30k. A few cruises at 35k across a prime realestate path will surely bag you a high flying and lazy B17. A little dive, a snapspray with those 3 cannon and some MG and it's toast.

Plus if you go down lower it keeps your E fighting habits up strong, you don't dare turn the plane with that setup.

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If your in range, so is the enemy.
Title: Favorite 109 ...
Post by: Fishu on January 25, 2000, 08:12:00 PM
109G-2 is the best  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Can run, can turn, can climb.. eh...  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

Makes up for weak armament <G>
Title: Favorite 109 ...
Post by: janneh on January 25, 2000, 11:30:00 PM
cc that Fishu  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

F-4 was my ride in ** and I still like it, but hey, G-2 has some traditions for us finns so it'll be G-2.




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"Flying Finns"
Title: Favorite 109 ...
Post by: mx22 on January 26, 2000, 08:30:00 AM
Hi,

It's me again here. I just looked at overall scores for all of the BF109 series and the thing is, neither of the planes is being able to obtain even the 1:1 kill ratio. How about we, guys who flew it for some time, offer some help to newbies with flying and fighting in these great machines? Also, maybe I should post this in the Help and Training message board? Comments welcome. Either replay here or send comments to mx222@concentric.net

Regards,

mx22
Title: Favorite 109 ...
Post by: Hristo on January 26, 2000, 09:05:00 AM
109 is the best !

But keep it a secret, will you ?  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Title: Favorite 109 ...
Post by: Totengraber on January 27, 2000, 03:21:00 AM
Sorry 109 fans, don't you notice the bug whit 109 at 20k? You can't make trim or auto-trim to work at this altitude. Even La5 is better than 109 at 20/25k.
Any coments?

Yours,
Totengräber


Title: Favorite 109 ...
Post by: Hristo on January 28, 2000, 01:38:00 AM
109 is the best plane for gaining and keeping the upper hand.

However, it needs time to kill, and thus suffers in an overpopulated arena.

E judgement ability is a must.
Title: Favorite 109 ...
Post by: janneh on January 28, 2000, 01:59:00 AM
It seems, 109's K/D's are getting better all the time:

F-4 : 0.75
G-2 : 1.10
G-6 : 1.05
G-10: 0.80

Overall K/D: 0.92


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"Flying Finns"
Title: Favorite 109 ...
Post by: Chain on February 05, 2000, 03:43:00 AM
 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) Bf-109 G-2 !  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)

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Chain
Aki Holopainen
aki.holopainen@quicknet.inet.fi
*Überfinns Perkeleet & The Flying Finns*
Title: Favorite 109 ...
Post by: Vermillion on February 05, 2000, 11:34:00 AM
Ok Janneh

now repost your numbers, but include sorties flown, # of kills, and # of deaths.

I bet that the G2 has a good ratio, but a low number of sorties/use  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure,
Dicta Verm: "Never give the suckers an even break!" or translated "Never engage without an advantage"
Title: Favorite 109 ...
Post by: Pongo on February 05, 2000, 01:42:00 PM
My favorite?
Probably the g2 although I wish it had german markings. I understand and appreciate the recognition of the Finish accomplishments with the AC but I would like to see one of the more exotic LW paint jobs.
Maybe if the fins had painted them in a more interesting way.

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Pongo
The Wrecking Crew
Title: Favorite 109 ...
Post by: Rocket on February 05, 2000, 02:22:00 PM
Any that get slow enough and steady enough to be dead  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

Rocket

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The Red Dragons
Fierce and Bold
With Honour and Courage
_______________________
www.reddragons.de
Title: Favorite 109 ...
Post by: janneh on February 06, 2000, 03:09:00 AM
Ok verm here they are (only kills / deaths and K/D's)

F-4 : 460 kills / 605 killed = 0.76
G-2 : 670 kills / 577 killed = 1.16
G-6 :1212 kills /1229 killed = 0.98
G-10:2059 kills /2295 killed = 0.89

umm, how do I get number of sorties flown ?

Strange thing is that ANY plane vs ANY plane has 1.0 K/D, now that's pretty good ??? =)

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"Lentolaivue 21"
Flying for Bishops.
Title: Favorite 109 ...
Post by: Dinger on February 06, 2000, 06:44:00 AM
Yeah, there's something horribly wrong with the 109G10 at least at above 20k, that's come forward in the last version or two -- you can't get enough trim authority to hold it level.  This also means the durn thing handles like a pig -- you've got to fight to hold it level, and just can't get enough control to line up anything.  Kinda reminds me of my pop's 1958 Ford Pickup with shot tires/suspension/axles that threatens to spin out and roll over 50 mph.
It used to be a nice ride to cruise at high alt and whack bombers; now you're better off flying anything else.
Title: Favorite 109 ...
Post by: Vermillion on February 06, 2000, 02:44:00 PM
Thanks Janneh

Like I thought, those stats indicate to me at least, that yes while the G2 has a the best kill/death raio, its also the least flown or second least flown of all the 109's.

Which tells me it is benefiting quite a bit from "experten" pilots. Remember back about 4 or 5 versions ago, the La5 was experiencing the same thing.

You guys are correct about the trim problems in the G10. Both of the F4U series suffers from a similar problem (but not as bad).

I hope to see them both get fixed in the near future.

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure,
Dicta Verm: "Never give the suckers an even break!" or translated "Never engage without an advantage"
Title: Favorite 109 ...
Post by: janneh on February 09, 2000, 10:56:00 AM
Some questions,
as shown here, 109 had 2 cooling systems, which were able to disconnect from each other by pilot. This should be modelled when talking about cooling leaks ?
        (http://www.saunalahti.fi/cool/cooling.jpg)        

Then other question, I've read much about leading edge slats (sp?), is this one of them or what is it ?
        (http://www.saunalahti.fi/cool/slat.jpg)        

Thx !

ps. Pongo, You really have something against us finns or Von Rosen Cross ?
Jeezz....
        (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)


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"Lentolaivue 21"
Flying for Bishops.

[This message has been edited by janneh (edited 02-09-2000).]
Title: Favorite 109 ...
Post by: Pongo on February 09, 2000, 11:59:00 AM
janneh
Yes those are leading edge slats,
No def nothing against Finns..
Cosmeticaly I prefer the german cross to the finnish one.
Just a paint job thing really. I would love to see some of the very nice G2 paint jobs and I find the Finnish one rather plain.

If for example they had chosen one of the plain hi altitude schemes for the G6 I wouldnt like that either, and for the same reason.
I tried to show that in my post, sorry if it wasn't clear. I will not be starting a get rid of the finish G2 campaign.

Also to restate, I know that the Finnish pilots accompished great things with the Gustav. I am glad that people that have and interest in the Finnish AF in WW2 have a plane that represents that era.. I am glad for the diverisity, but cosmeticaly I wish that I could choose one of the ones from Luftwaffe Fighters in Profile that is all...
I can't think of anything else to say, hope you are not offended by my preference.  

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Pongo
The Wrecking Crew
Title: Favorite 109 ...
Post by: janneh on February 09, 2000, 01:30:00 PM
Pongo, no hard feelings.
I just thought your purposes of those "negative" statements of Finnish markings.
Glad it's clarified now  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

Although you're wrong about german cross being cosmeticaly better than Finnish swastika  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
But look at Finnish markings now ! Outch !
What a imagination, piece of art  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)

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"Lentolaivue 21"
Flying for Bishops.
Title: Favorite 109 ...
Post by: fats on February 09, 2000, 01:38:00 PM
Janneh,

Messerchmitt Bf 109 F,G & K by Prien & Rodeike says that only ( some, retrofitted at fields ) F-series planes and ( all, built in at factory ) K-4s had the valves for isolating one of the coolers.


//fats

Title: Favorite 109 ...
Post by: janneh on February 10, 2000, 01:46:00 AM
fats, according to "Lentäjän Näkökulma II", pilot could isolate them from cockpit in G-2 too.
Radiators had hydraulic driven coverplates front and back. Coverplates affected planes top speed as much as 50km/h, depending if they were open or closed.

Interesting facts about engines of G-2s;
Basic engines were DB605A-1's, but some of the planes had "hi alt" DB-605 A-1 equipped with DB 603's more powerfull charger.
109G-1 had GM-1, G-2 was without it.Also finnish G-2's was without MW-50's because of increased wearing of engine and increased weight(100kg), max take off hp 1475 was disabled too.

I really have to buy that 109 book  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)


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"Lentolaivue 21"
Flying for Bishops.
Title: Favorite 109 ...
Post by: fats on February 10, 2000, 12:44:00 PM
Janneh,

It's been long time since I read Lentajan Nakokulma II. Did it have a part where they talk about the coolers' automatic flaps that would open/close, something about their effect on climbing speed ( not rate necessarily ). I don't how ever recall it mentioning the cut off valves, but it's more than 2 years since I read it.


//fats

Title: Favorite 109 ...
Post by: janneh on February 11, 2000, 06:06:00 AM
fats, yes it has talking about "thermostat controlled hydraulic cooler flaps".
G-2 had also manual system for that.
Can't recall any numbers of cooler flaps effect on climbing, but it was quite considerable.
Well, if their affect for speed was 50 km/h (= 31 mph ?), they effected greatly for climbing as well, tho.

When pilot dropped flaps down, also coolers back flaps were downed, I remember I've read something about flaps being somewhat poor on G-2, not sure.


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"Lentolaivue 21"
Flying for Bishops.
Title: Favorite 109 ...
Post by: fats on February 11, 2000, 07:23:00 AM
My comment about possibly not increasing clibm rate refers to the recollection I have, that they had to use a more shallow climb angle but with increased speed the rate was roughly equal.


//fats