Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: lyric1 on May 23, 2009, 08:56:10 AM
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Found these pictures of this 109 I cant tell what model it is. Any one know?
(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/943d6a9d5e.jpg) (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/) (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/ee7ee94d0c.jpg) (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)
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I would say G-10.
Oil cooler looks deeper than that of the G-6/AS or G-14/AS and the tailwheel is too short to be a K-4.
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I'm going with bubi on this one. As he says, the deep oil cooler is typical of the DB 605D. Also, K-4 wouldn't have the mast behind the cockpit.
Keep in mind, however, some /AS 14s got the deeper oil cooler, but only a small number of them.
Edit: Notice the arrow pointing to the underside of the nose? If that arrow is indicating the "chin" bulges then it's even more likely it's a G-10.
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I'd say G-10 or an odd-looking G-14 too, with those fat tires and smooth hub.
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You guys are really good at I.D. variants of 109s. When i look at it, i don't know what to look for, I just see a 109. it is better than most people who may just call it a A/C.
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You guys are really good at I.D. variants of 109s. When i look at it, i don't know what to look for, I just see a 109. it is better than most people who may just call it a A/C.
It's pretty tough with the later models. At first glance I look at the engine cowling, so it could have been a G-5/AS, G-6/AS, G-14/AS, G-10 or G-10/AS, or a K-4. It couldn't have been a G-5/AS because the G-5 never carried the Erla hood (the G-5 had a pressurized cockpit). It couldn't have been a K-4 because of the tail wheel.
Past that, it still could have been a G-6, -14, -10/AS or a G-10. I had to refer to my book on the 109 series (An Illustrated Study of the Messerschmitt Bf 109 F, G and K Series by Jochen Prien and Peter Rodeike- Great book). Luckily, this was a G-10, as evidenced by the Fo-987 oil cooler and the bulges in front of the exhaust stacks, indicating that it was equipped with a DB605D engine. It would have been much more difficult to distinguish had it been a G-10/AS, since it would have been largely similar to the G-6/AS or G-14/AS.
This seems to have been a G-10 converted from a G-6, as it looks like it has the teardrop shaped fairings for the landing gear on the wings, first used in the G-4, as opposed to those introduced on the G-14. It's hard to tell from those angles, though.
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Well, from the looks of it, it seems that the 109 has a wide range if diversity in it. Most of any WWII A/C or maybe as much as P-47. :salute
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It's pretty tough with the later models. At first glance I look at the engine cowling, so it could have been a G-5/AS, G-6/AS, G-14/AS, G-10 or G-10/AS, or a K-4. It couldn't have been a G-5/AS because the G-5 never carried the Erla hood (the G-5 had a pressurized cockpit). It couldn't have been a K-4 because of the tail wheel.
Past that, it still could have been a G-6, -14, -10/AS or a G-10. I had to refer to my book on the 109 series (An Illustrated Study of the Messerschmitt Bf 109 F, G and K Series by Jochen Prien and Peter Rodeike- Great book). Luckily, this was a G-10, as evidenced by the Fo-987 oil cooler and the bulges in front of the exhaust stacks, indicating that it was equipped with a DB605D engine. It would have been much more difficult to distinguish had it been a G-10/AS, since it would have been largely similar to the G-6/AS or G-14/AS.
This seems to have been a G-10 converted from a G-6, as it looks like it has the teardrop shaped fairings for the landing gear on the wings, first used in the G-4, as opposed to those introduced on the G-14. It's hard to tell from those angles, though.
Could you give me a visual comparison of an Erla hood and a non-erla hood? I have been trying to find some good visual example for ages, and I have never found anything I could really identify.
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Could you give me a visual comparison of an Erla hood and a non-erla hood? I have been trying to find some good visual example for ages, and I have never found anything I could really identify.
Erla = no vertical bars/sliding window.
Pre-erla = vertical bars/sliding window.
In AH, the K4 canopy is the Erla, the G2 is not.
Usually used in conjuction with the high-vis head armour. IIRC.
Erla haub:
(http://www.buffiesbest.com/pictures/SMErla.JPG)
Early canopy:
(http://www.buffiesbest.com/pictures/sm%20G%20canopy.jpg)
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As you can see, the Erla haub turns the canopy in a two-piece system, whereas before it was a forward fixed section, middle opening section, and aft fixed section.
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Wow, that's exactly what I needed! Thank you very much!
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Identified as a 109K-6 in one of the 109 books I have. Captured and evaluated by the USAAF.
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Captured and evaluated by the USAAF.
Well that would explain the numbers on the fuselage.
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Identified as a 109K-6 in one of the 109 books I have. Captured and evaluated by the USAAF.
Exactly how many species of 109 are there. Give me the list.
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I would say G-10.
Oil cooler looks deeper than that of the G-6/AS or G-14/AS and the tailwheel is too short to be a K-4.
How do you do it? lol
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Exactly how many species of 109 are there. Give me the list.
From what I can name off of the top of my head...
Bf-109B-1
Bf-109B-2
Bf-109B-3
Bf-109B-4
Bf-109C-1
Bf-109C-2
Bf-109C-3
Bf-109C-4
Bf-109C-5
Bf-109D-1
Bf-109D-2
Bf-109D-3
Bf-109E-1
Bf-109E-2
Bf-109E-3
Bf-109E-4
Bf-109E-5
Bf-109E-6
Bf-109E-7
Bf-109F-1
Bf-109F-2
Bf-109F-3
Bf-109F-4
Bf-109G-2
Bf-109G-3
Bf-109G-4
Bf-109G-5
Bf-109G-6
Bf-109G-6A/S
Bf-109G-10
Bf-109G-10A/S
Bf-109G-12
Bf-109G-14
Bf-109G-14A/S
Bf-109H-0
Bf-109T
Those are all of the models I can recall ever having heard of. There are also many Bf-109V models, but I cannot recall which numbers those encompass. I seem to remember reading how certain numbers were attributed to unsuccessful designs and so were skipped. This also doesn't include all field additions (The R- kits) which add cannon, bomb ranks, rockets, etc.
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Some things to add to the list:
Bf-109B-1
Bf-109B-2
Bf-109B-3
Bf-109B-4
Bf-109C-1
Bf-109C-2
Bf-109C-3
Bf-109C-4
Bf-109C-5
Bf-109D-1
Bf-109D-2
Bf-109D-3
Bf-109E-1
Bf-109E-2
Bf-109E-3
Bf-109E-4 + E4/N
Bf-109E-5
Bf-109E-6
Bf-109E-7
Bf-109F-1
Bf-109F-2
Bf-109F-3
Bf-109F-4 + F-4/Z
Bf 109G-1
Bf-109G-2
Bf-109G-3
Bf-109G-4
Bf-109G-5 +G5/AS
Bf-109G-6
Bf-109G-6A/S
Bf-109G-10
Bf-109G-10A/S
Bf-109G-12
Bf-109G-14
Bf-109G-14A/S
Bf-109H-0
Bf 109K-4
Bf-109T
Things get really tricky with the Gustav. Most of the models listed above could have the old rounded v-stab or the taller version, short or long tailwheel, different canopies and head armor, etc. The total number of species and subspecies is mind boggling, and all these varieties came into existence while the RLM was asking Messerschmitt to simplify and streamline 109 production. :eek:
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HOLY S*IT! That is a lot. I know the "T" modle was used for aircraft carrier. What is the story with the "H", "C", "B","D" modle? Will we evey see any of these on AH?
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HOLY S*IT! That is a lot. I know the "T" modle was used for aircraft carrier. What is the story with the "H", "C", "B","D" modle? Will we evey see any of these on AH?
H was kind of like the Ta 152H-1 we have in game, meant for high altitude with and extended wingspan. I don't know if a prototype was ever built.
One missing from the list is the A-0, which served during the Spanish Civil War, and the B, C and D saw combat in the SCW as well. The C and D served on through the Blitz of Poland but I believe it was removed from front line service before the Battle of France or soon thereafter.
I doubt we'll see any of them in AH.
Some things to note;
The original powerplant of the 109 series was the Junkers Jumo 210. This was retained until it was replaced with the Daimler Benz DB601 in the E, and from then on all 109s would have Daimler Benz powerplants.
The original armament of the 109 was only the two MG17 7.92 machine guns in the engine cowling. This was doubled in the C with the addition of two more MG17's in the wing. The pair of MG/FF 20mm autocannons in the wings were not introduced until the E-3.
Bf 109C's of I/JG137 in September of 1939
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6e/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-379-0015-18%2C_Flugzeuge_Messerschmitt_Me_109_auf_Flugplatz.jpg)
The original armament of the greatly improved Bf 109F series was two MG17s and one MG/FF autocannon. Since the MG/FF sucked it was replaced with the MG151/15 15mm autocannon in the F-2. This was extremely inadequate and even when the MG151/15 was upgraded to an MG151/20 in the F-4 many pilots still wished for a heavier armament. Adolf Galland was tasked with testing a Bf 109F-4 with MG131 machine guns replacing the MG17s, but the guns were badly synchronized and the muzzle flash too great so the idea was shelved.
The Bf 109G-1 introduced the DB 605A engine and a pressurized cockpit, along with a plethora of other changes. The G-2 was essentially the same, minus the systems for the pressurized cockpit. The G-3 and G-4 introduced larger landing gear and a few other minor changes, the G-3 again being pressurized and the G-4 not. This repeated with the G-5 and G-6, both of which were essentially identical to the G-3/4 beside the addition of the MG131 13mm machine gun, the G-5 being pressurized and the G-6 not.
The G-6 was by far the most produced variant of the 109 with over 12,000 being built.
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What is the A/S Stand for?
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From what I can name off of the top of my head...
LOL you are a 109 dweeb and forgot one that is in AH :P
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What is the A/S Stand for?
Means the aircraft was equipped with the DB 605AS (M) engine, which was optimized for high altitude performance. It's easy to pick out an /AS as they all have a redesigned cowling (also used with the DB605D equipped 109's, G-10 and K-4) which smooths out the MG blisters, as you can see in the OP.
There's no G-8 on that list either, which was a reconnaissance version.
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Identified as a 109K-6 in one of the 109 books I have. Captured and evaluated by the USAAF.
I don't really see how it could be a K-6. The tail wheel is very short and there don't seem to be any bulges or gun barrels attached to the wing indicating the presence of MK 108's.
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Means the aircraft was equipped with the DB 605AS (M) engine, which was optimized for high altitude performance. It's easy to pick out an /AS as they all have a redesigned cowling (also used with the DB605D equipped 109's, G-10 and K-4) which smooths out the MG blisters, as you can see in the OP.
There's no G-8 on that list either, which was a reconnaissance version.
Thanks
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I don't really see how it could be a K-6. The tail wheel is very short and there don't seem to be any bulges or gun barrels attached to the wing indicating the presence of MK 108's.
Not arguing either way :)
Just posting how it was ID'd. Since it was a captured airframe there must be some record of it somewhere. It was in the old Heinz Norrowa 109 book where the photo was shown and ID'd. It's the only other photo I could find of it in my 109 stuff.
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Things get really tricky with the Gustav. Most of the models listed above could have the old rounded v-stab or the taller version, short or long tailwheel, different canopies and head armor, etc. The total number of species and subspecies is mind boggling, and all these varieties came into existence while the RLM was asking Messerschmitt to simplify and streamline 109 production. :eek:
Oh what great temptation to make a comment here about one Gustav is the same as another :)
Kinda like the Spit IXs are all the same :aok
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Oh what great temptation to make a comment here about one Gustav is the same as another :)
Kinda like the Spit IXs are all the same :aok
I can wrap my head around the G series just fine. But when I was looking through that 'guess the Spitfire thread' I had no clue what was going on. I can tell the difference between like a 5 and a 9 or the Griffon models, how you guys can tell a Spitfire LFX3R IXeer from whatever is beyond me.
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Are the 109C's a two prop instead a three?
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Are the 109C's a two prop instead a three?
Yup, two blades until the DB 601 was introduced.
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LOL you are a 109 dweeb and forgot one that is in AH :P
lol. Oops!
As for C/B/D/ and H:
C:
B:
D:
H:
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Lyric were you planning to make a skin of this, would be a good addition.
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I can wrap my head around the G series just fine. But when I was looking through that 'guess the Spitfire thread' I had no clue what was going on. I can tell the difference between like a 5 and a 9 or the Griffon models, how you guys can tell a Spitfire LFX3R IXeer from whatever is beyond me.
Which is why I won't criticize the LW guys or try and tell them about 109s. Now if I can get some of the LW guys to quit trying to tell me about Spits, we'll be just fine :)
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Which is why I won't criticize the LW guys or try and tell them about 109s. Now if I can get some of the LW guys to quit trying to tell me about Spits, we'll be just fine :)
Spits, what happen to P-38?
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Here we good. A web site that shows the family tree of 109.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~tozu/me109/index.htm (http://www.xs4all.nl/~tozu/me109/index.htm)
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Lyric were you planning to make a skin of this, would be a good addition.
No I don't know how to. I guess my knack is finding stuff and passing it on to those who can skin.
If you want to try this one be my guest I don't know if it would be eligible though?
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Spits, what happen to P-38?
Dan's first and forbidden love: Spitfires
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Dan's first and forbidden love: Spitfires
If you ever want to keep Dan occupied for hours, just ask him "Why do we need a Spit XII?"