Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Karnak on April 18, 2001, 06:30:00 PM
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Now, you all know I like the Spitfire F.MkXIVc a little, but, as much as I hate to say it, I think the Spit 14 is too good to be added as a non-perk aircraft. Here is what I think would be viable:
Spitfire F.MkVIII: The ultimate Merlin engined Spitfire. The Spit 8s extra fuel capacity was very useful in the Pacific Theatre as well as on sweeps over the continent.
Spitfire LF.MkIX: The most common Spit 9 and much more representative of Spitfire 9s in 1944. In contrast, only the first 300 Spit 9s were Fs like we have.
Spitfire MkXII: The first combat Spitfire with a Griffon engine, but it is only a 1,700hp single stage Griffon, not the monster 2,050hp two stage Griffon 65/66 of the Spitfire XIV. Clipped wings would give it an awesome roll rate.
Spitfire MkXVIe: 1944 Spitfire using a Packard Merlin and with a bubble canopy.
The Germans have 4 109s, covering '41, '42, '43 and '44. They also have 5 190s ranging from '42 to '45.
The Americans will now have 3 P-47s, each with nearly identical performance.
Yet the British only have 3 Spits (two do have nearly identical performance, not that that is a good thing), and two of those are from '41 with the third being only a year more advanced from mid '42.
It seems clear that at some point more Spitfires, and not just a Spitfire MkIa, need to be added.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Spitfire F.MkXIVc to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
[This message has been edited by Karnak (edited 04-18-2001).]
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Do you happen to have a production breakdown for the Spitfire? Also what units used the Spit VIII? Thanks!
Sable
352nd FG
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Mark Total
I 1567
II 920
PRIV 229
V 6487
VI 100
VII 140
VIII 1658
IX 5665
PR X 16
PR XI 476
XII 100
XIII 44
XIV 957
XVI 1054
XVIII 300
PR XIX 225
F21 122
F22 278
F24 81
Seafires
IB 166
IIC 372
F III 1250
XV 390
XVII 232
45 44
46 26
47 90
I don't know which units used the VIII, but it was used in Italy as well as the far east. I don't think it was used from British bases.
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251 Mk VIIIs (A58-300/550)and 159 HF Mk VIIIs (A58-600/758) served with the RAAF.
Equipping 79, 85, 452, 457 RAAF
and Nos 54, 548 and 549 Sqns RAF in Australian service.
Vickers Supermarine Spitfire Mk VIII
POWER PLANT: One 1,520 hp Merlin 61, or 1,710 hp Merlin 63/63A.
DIMENSIONS: Span, 36 ft. 10 ins.; length, 31 ft. 3 1/2 ins; height, 11 ft. 8 1/2 ins.
WEIGHTS: Loaded, 7,767 lb; max. permissible, 8,000 lb.
PERFORMANCE: Max speed. 408 mph at 25,000 ft. Climb rate, 7 mins to 20,000
ft. Service ceiling, 43,000 ft.
ARMAMENT: Two 20 mm cannons plus four 0.303 guns, and 1,000 lb of bombs.
Tronsky
486 Sqn (NZ), "hiwa hau maka"
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Those would be great.
I can't imagine why the Mk. XIV would be a perk plane though, while better-performing planes that appeared later in the war in fewer numbers are not perked.
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"Yet the British only have 3 Spits"
Gimme 2 other versions of P-38 (J and D) and you can have as many sissyfires as you want (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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p38D was an abomination
P-38F is representative of the first of the lightnings much moreso than the P-38D which only scored 1 kill in ww2.
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Tac,
The P-38 was not the mainstay fighter of the US (not that the US had a mainstay fighter) whereas the Spitfire was the mainstay fighter of the RAF, like the Bf109 and Fw190 were for the Germans. In addition, your P-38 is a 1944 aircraft.
If I can have a 1944 Spitfire you can have as many 1941 and 1942 P-38s as your heart desires. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
BTW, my roommate agrees with you. The P-38 is his favorite fighter. He'd like a P-38D, P-38J and P-38K.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Spitfire F.MkXIVc to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
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cc citabria, but its got a 37mm cannon. Could be a great ground attack and possibly a good buff killer (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
P-38 was the mainstay fighter in the PTO for most of the war... and even still there are 3 versions of jug and 2 versions of pony, 3 versions of spit. My 2 engined beut is being forgotten!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
IMO, i'd rather see a hurricane before another spit, there were much more hurricanes than spitfires in the war. I'd vote for a 12 303 gunned hurricane! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Get this thread back on topic. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
More Spits!!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 04-18-2001).]
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Tac,
A Hurricane should be done eventually, but not yet. It'd be a sitting duck, the slowest fighter in AH by far, no acceleration and no climb. When HTC starts on the early war aircraft then it will be time to add the Hurricane.
16,000 Hurricanes were built.
22,000 Spitfires and Seafires were built, more than 21,000 before and during the war.
The Hurricane shot down more German aircraft than the Spitfire until 1943, whereupon the Spitfire overtook it in total kills.
Please explain to me how there were more Hurricanes than Spitfires in WWII.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Spitfire F.MkXIVc to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
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Yes, we need both the LFIX and the XIV (not perked, imho). The latter was in combat before the P-51D. But give us an MW50 Bf109G-6 as well (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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U can get MkI, thats it! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) j/k
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Originally posted by Karnak:
Tac,
A Hurricane should be done eventually, but not yet. It'd be a sitting duck, the slowest fighter in AH by far, no acceleration and no climb. When HTC starts on the early war aircraft then it will be time to add the Hurricane.
The Hurricane should be added immediately, it will serve as the ground pounding alternative to the dweebhog with which it shares it 4 hispanolaserarmament(IIC). Or as tank killer (IID) or flying machinegun nest (IIB). Maybe only extremely brave and manly people with principles will use it as regular ride but that doesn't disqualify it right? Has the 202 been removed?......
Besides it's such a classic it would be an abomination, in the order of not adding spits at all, not adding the Hurri.
Soon to be introduced with 1.07:
(http://www.aviation-history.com/hawker/hurrcne4.jpg)
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Thud1/Bies
Bring the Hurricane (MKIIC) to AH! (together with the Invader!)
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One or two Spitfire versions would be fine!
Some low alt version with clipped wings would be really dangerous opponent. And early griffon engined version would be nice step towards the ultimate Spit XIV.
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jochen / Gefechtsverband Kowalewski
Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87D, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.
Sieg oder bolschevismus!
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Ah yes, bring the Hurricane with the IIB, IIC and IID armament configurations. The IL-2, the HS-129 and the Hurry IID were real tank hunters. Great a/c for scenarios as well!
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Like I have already said.... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) We need more Spitfires, like we need a hole in the head.
Hell, let me change that. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
We need more German, British, or American aircraft of ANY type, like we need a hole in the head for about the next 3 versions (I mean this literally, since the Japanese, Russian, and Italian planesets is in such pitiful shape).
Ok new contest/poll !!
Who's the worst about wanting umpteen billion varients of their favorite fighters? Luftwooble fanatics with their 64 different requested 109/190's subtypes? The Jug fans who want another 6 subtypes of the P-47D, before they even start on the other types B,C,M and N? Or our friendly Spitfire contingent?
Its neck and neck... who's gonna win (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
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You forgot to include the Yak-9UT whiner guy...
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Originally posted by juzz:
You forgot to include the Yak-9UT whiner guy...
I want Yak-9K, Yak-9DD and maybe Yak-9B for the time when I'm inot the bombing (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
mx22
[This message has been edited by mx22 (edited 04-19-2001).]
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We also need the MkVc trop with the option for 4 hispanos no mgs
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YESSSSSSSSSS!!
I agree, we need a late model SPIT. What was it 957 spitXIVs were produced. Ya gotta bring this bird in AH. Although its ENY value will be on par with the cHog im sure, ie not many points for killing in it.
Moreover, I would love to see the Hurri IIC in here as well as the 40mm version.
Mossie, we prolly need the mossie more than anything!
speaking about ENY values, HTC needs to adjust those things every tour. F6f is way off as well as zeke.
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So Verm you are against any post-1942 Spits and against any sort of RPS to reduce the number of late war wonders in flight. So Spitfire squadrons should have no choice but to compete against 1944-45 planes in 1941-1942 planes? No thanks, I'll take my quarters somewhere else.
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Vermillion,
Why not more British aircraft? You act as though the British are up there with the Americans and Germans. This is simply not so.
We have 6 British and 5 Russian aircraft that we know of, as of v1.07. I agree that HTC should focus on Japanese aircraft, but it seems to me that Russian and British are on nearly the same priority level, that and the fact that the Russians have one of the best fighters in the form of the La7. Spit IX can't touch an La7 that is flown even halfway decently. If any of you want to argue that because Mitsu in the Spit IX vs. Joe Newbie in an La7 would result in a sweep by the Spit and that proves the Spit is better than the La7, fine, but we both know that is BS.
Known unit count as of v1.07:
American: 18*
German: 13**
British: 6
Russian: 5
Japanese: 3
Italian: 2
*All general purpose units are American and in addition the only amphibious units available for simulation are American. Eliminating the C-47A, M-3, LVT-2 and LVT-4a results in 14 American units. The P-47D-25 is in Brazilian markings. Eliminating the P-47D-25 as well resultsin 13 American units.
**The Bf109G-2 is in Finnish markings. Eliminating the Bf109G-2 results in a total of 12 German units.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Spitfire F.MkXIVc to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
[This message has been edited by Karnak (edited 04-19-2001).]
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Hehe you know I'm mostly kidding Funked. Else I wouldn't have umpteen million smilies in the post.
However, your forgeting one little important issue. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Contrary to your arguements, about 80% (roughly, my estimate) of the Spitfires we see in AH are 1944 and later varients.
If they're being flown with .50 cal MG's, they're a 1944 or later bird, period. And don't even try to convince me that the majority of Spit pilots are flying with .303's. Sure a few are, but they are a very small majority.
Plus if I remember correctly, even up thru 1944 the Spit IX, was the largest produced Spitfire varient. IE they made more IX's in 1944 than they made XIV's.
So if that is correct, according to the line of thought that production numbers are all important (not necessarily my own beliefs, just a very prevalent belief in the community), then the Spit IX is the representative Spitfire for 1944 (and maybe into 1945, I would have to check).
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif) *raspberry*
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
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The .50 cals on the AH F Mk IX are fantasy. The vast majority of Mk. IX built in 1943-45 were the LF Mk IX with Merlin 66, giving about 750 more fpm and 20 more mph than the AH F Mk IX at low level.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 04-19-2001).]
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Here's a good link on this topic: http://www.uio.no/~hungnes/avia/spitfire/mkixvar.htm (http://www.uio.no/~hungnes/avia/spitfire/mkixvar.htm)
Remember that the LF Mk. XVI (1054 built) was functionally identical to the LF Mk. IX, but with an engine assembled in the US by Packard.
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Originally posted by Sable:
Do you happen to have a production breakdown for the Spitfire? Also what units used the Spit VIII? Thanks!
Sable
352nd FG
Hi
RAF Squadrons:-
17, 20, 28, 32, 43, 54, 67, 73, 81, 87, 92, 94, 131, 132, 136, 145, 152, 153, 154, 155, 185, 208, 238, 241, 253, 256, 273, 326, 327, 328, 417, 451, 452, 457, 548, 549, 601, 607 & 615 all used the Spitfire VIII at some stage through WWII.
Regards
Nexx
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Contrary to your arguements, about 80% (roughly, my estimate) of the Spitfires we see in AH are 1944 and later varients.
If they're being flown with .50 cal MG's, they're a 1944 or later bird, period. And don't even try to convince me that the majority of Spit pilots are flying with .303's. Sure a few are, but they are a very small majority.
As Funked said, the Spit F IX with .5s is fantasy. It is very doubtfu;ll any F IXs were produced with this configuration, because they had stopped production of them long before the E armament became available.
The major production varient was the LF, and that had much better performancce than the F. The AH Spit IX is an F model, with the performance to match.
A true 1944 Spit IX would be faster at low alts, climb much better, and if eequipped for 25lb boost, as most were in late 44, achieve a top speed of 350+ at sea level.
AH has a 1942 plane with 1944 guns.
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Vermillion,
As the others have said, its a 1942 Spit with a '44 gun option. Don't for a moment think that it becomes a 1944 Spit if you take the .50s, once a Spit is out of 20mm ammo, its looking for a way out of the fight. Functionally the Spitfire is armed with 2 20mm cannon, the rest is fluff.
Flight performance, or massive firepower changes are what matter. Our Spitfire IX has neither and so it remains a 1942 Spitfire.
I like the way the .303s look, to me 2 20mm and 4 .303s is the classic Spitfire armament, so that is what I take. I hope the MkXIV will have the option for both as well, that way Funked can have his 2 .50s and I can have my 4 .303s.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Spitfire F.MkXIVc to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
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As the others have said, its a 1942 Spit with a '44 gun option. Don't for a moment think that it becomes a 1944 Spit if you take the .50s
I'll remember that next time one of you guys start to complain about the Chog (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif) After all its just a 1943 fighter with a 1945 armament change, but that doesn't mean it isn't a 1943 fighter.
So next time one of you propose a RPS, I expect to see the Chog right there where the F4U-1A sits. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
{Note: I'm not a chog person in the least, but its parallel to this discussion is way too tastey to resist (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)}
Oh one question, you guys always complain about our "F", but last time I checked, our "F" had the a max speed at altitude and critical altitude most similar to a "HF", along with the medium and low altitude speeds of the "F". So your getting the best of two worlds. Or did Pyro finally fix that "little" bug? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
So not only do you get the "fantasy" .50's as you say, but you also get a fantasy best case meld of F and HF too I guess.
FIX THE SPIT NOW !!! ITS PORKED !!!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Sorry, but your gonna have too work harder to convince me to feel sorry for a "poor little 1942 plane" that is currently getting more than 10% of the total kills in AcesHigh, and is ranked 2nd or 3rd overall in that category.
Hehehehe you guys are almost as fun to harass as the Luftwobble leather wearing crowd.
Hmmm.... What can we label you guys as (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) The Nancy boy tea & crumpet set? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
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I'll remember that next time one of you guys start to complain about the Chog After all its just a 1943 fighter with a 1945 armament change, but that doesn't mean it isn't a 1943 fighter.
The US navy, amongst others, rated the Hispano at 3 times the effictiveness of the 0.5
Based on that assumption, the CHOG has twice the firepower of the D hog.
If you take 4 303s as equal to 1 0.5, the the E Spit has 15% more firepower than the B Spit. Hardly the same thing.
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Vermillion,
Did you not notice this little bit:
"Flight performance, or massive firepower changes are what matter."
I think that covers the F4U-1C nicely.
I agree, fix the Spitfire F.MkIX. Make it perform as close to specs as possible and remove the .50 gun option and the option for carrying rockets.
Then add a Spitfire LF.MkIXc with the option of 2 20mm cannon and 2 .50 machine guns or 2 20mm cannon and 4 .303 machine guns.
The Spitfire IX has jumped up in popularity recently because, I believe, EA killed AW, the AW Spitfire IX was king and many former AW subscribers have come to AH where they continued, not unnaturally, to fly the Spitfire IX. As they become more familiar with AH many of them will probably migrate to aircraft such as the F4U-1C, N1K2, La7, Bf109G-10 and Fw190D-9.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Spitfire F.MkXIVc to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
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Vermillion,
For a label, try:
RAFanatics
It'll carry the same meaning and won't make us out to be a sub-set of the Luftwaffles like calling us "RAFwaffles" does.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Spitfire F.MkXIVc to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
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Negative Verm.
The HF has far superior climb performance to the AH F. Furthermore the AH F is consistent with flight data for the real thing (see BF274 report on link below).
The AH F uses +18 boost for WEP while BF274 was tested at only +15. If you fly the AH plane with +15 boost you actually find that it is underperforming in climb compared with the real thing. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Read 'em and weep: http://www.fourthfightergroup.com/eagles/spittest.html (http://www.fourthfightergroup.com/eagles/spittest.html)
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 04-19-2001).]
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Here's how the AH plane performs. Military power = +15 boost.
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/pyro/spit9speed.gif)
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/pyro/spit9climb.gif)
Speed is OK but we should be seeing about 500 fpm more at all heights.
And this is just for an F. For an LF or HF the peaks would be 700-800 fpm higher.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 04-19-2001).]
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[This message has been edited by funked (edited 04-19-2001).]
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funkedup i just figured it out with math, and i got that a loaded spitfire F .IX should have a max climb rate of 3920 FPM at 161 MPH TAS at sea level. Definitely seems like the F.IX climbs a bit too slow.
From the data Ive seen tho the spitfire F.IX should get 326 MPH at sea level not 320 as yours shows, this looks like its incorrect..
(anyone test max sea level speed of spit 9 at sea level?) (with wep)
[This message has been edited by Zigrat (edited 04-19-2001).]
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i also saw claims that the LF.IX could climbs at 4700 FPM. I find this highly unlikely given that my source says it only produced 1580 HP at sea level. For that kind of climb rate its efficiency would be very near 100%.
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Power figures are listed below. 4700 fpm from 1750 hp at 7485 lb is not out of line with other WW2 planes for which we have similar data.
Merlin 66:
Normal Power, 100/130 Grade Fuel
MS: 1410 hp @ 2850 rpm, +12 psi, 8500 ft
FS: 1310 hp @ 2850 rpm, +12 psi, 18000 ft
Combat Power, 100/130 Grade Fuel
MS: 1750 hp @ 3000 rpm, +18 psi, 5250 ft
FS: 1625 hp @ 3000 rpm, +18 psi, 12500 ft
Combat Power, 100/150 Grade Fuel
MS: 2000 hp @ 3000 rpm, +25 psi, 5250 ft
FS: 1860 hp @ 3000 rpm, +25 psi, 11000 ft
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Not sure what numbers you are talking about (320 vs 326). The charts I posted are Pyro's, and reflect the in-game performance.
The other link I provided is MW's stuff which is from documents he got from the UK Public Records Office. There is definitely some variation in those figures, which is normal for WW2 flight test data.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 04-19-2001).]
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4400 is more in line
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well if the spitfire F.ix makes only 220 with wep its cd,o is 2.14
but if you go by the LF.ix data its CD,0 is 2.04
im figuring they should have nearly identicle CD,O right?
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ok funky what im saying is that the spitfire F.IX likely performs a bit too poorly as it currently is in aces high, but that the LF.IX would not perform quite as well as you claim (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
the F. IX should make 326 MPH, the LF. IX should make 336 MPH (on the deck)
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Are you actually looking at the drag polar or just looking at the ratio of excess power to power available? If you do the latter you get an efficiency of about 0.6 which is in the middle of the pack for the planes in AH.
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LF.IX would not perform quite as well as you claim
Well it did that performance in real life, so your calculations are not performing quite as well as you claim. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I think what we are seeing is normal variation in flight test data.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 04-19-2001).]
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PS
Merlin 61 ratings are 1530/+15/13000 and 1340/+15/23500
I can't find a +18 rating. I'm wondering if Pyro goofed on the boost numbers.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 04-19-2001).]
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OK Zig I typed in enough information now, go figure it out and send me a full report in the morning. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Looking at the BF 274 data and AH charts:
AH Military Power(+16lbs) speed = BF 274 Combat Power(+15lbs) speed. Good! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
AH Emergency Power(+18lbs) climb = BF 274 Combat Power(+15lbs) climb. Bad! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Did the Merlin 61 actually have a +18lbs rating? I have never seen anything to support it. If not, the AH Spitfire F.IX should loose it's current WEP speed.
Ordinance Porkage On Spitfires!
Spitfire F.IX:
1. 300l German drop tank
2. 3.5" rockets
3. E wing armament - 2x.50" + 2x20mm
4. Missing 30/90gal slipper tanks
Spitfire VC(3d model is a VB though):
1. Missing C wing armament - 4x20mm
2. Missing 30/90gal slipper tanks
3. Missing 250lbs bombs on wing racks
Since the Seafire IIC was based on the VC, the above probably apply to it also.
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Juzz,
The Spitfire V series did not have bomb capacity on the wings. All my references say that it could carry 500lbs of bombs, not 1000lbs.
Yes, the Spitfire F.MkIX does have some fantasy stuff that should be removed from it, and its performance is a bit off. I agree that these things should be fixed on it.
At the same time those things are fixed, we should get a true 1944 Merlin Spitfire.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Spitfire F.MkXIVc to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
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Gee, and that couldn't possibly mean 2x250lbs on the wings OR a single 500lbs under the belly - could it?
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It could, but I've never seen references to it.
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Merlin 61 talk for Juzz:
I have a copy of the pilot's notes for the Mk. IX/XVI and it says +15 is the limit for the F. Mk. IX.
As to the AH speeds being too fast, there is a graph in Jeffrey Quill's book which shows very similar performance to Pyro's chart. But there is no supporting information other than that it was a Mk. IX with Merlin 61.