Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: MANDOBLE on April 19, 2001, 06:18:00 PM
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Take a serious look at the actual status of kills:
HOGC -> 16496 kills (1769 gvs)
Nikki -> 7521 kills (198 gvs)
SpitIX -> 7120 kills (283 gvs)
At half way down:
La7 -> 4476 kills (116 gvs)
Rest of the planes have as minimum 1000 kills less than La7.
For example:
HOG-D -> 3439 kills (203 gvs)
190D9 -> 3140 kills (63 gvs)
Another example related to buffs:
HOGC -> 2410 buff kills
190D9 -> 586 buff kills
Sincerely, I'm getting bored encountering only Hogs C, nikkis and spits. Dont remember the last time I fought a P51B (for example). IMO, something should be done.
AH is becoming anything but a balanced planeset usage game, is becoming Aces HOG.
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MANDOBLE, did you just now notice this?
In the MA people are going to do whatever they like, so a lot of people fly the easiest planes to get kills in. What we need is an alternative to the MA, like a historical arena. Even 30 people in an HA is a lot of fun.
ra
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Remember we are on an ocean map, so carrier planes will naturally be the most popular. And since HTC have not chosen to model some of the most formidable CV planes, the Chog is the best choice.
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Sorry funked, but you know very well carriers dont matter at all. This is the same with any map.
And a final note:
I supposed perks were here to regulate the usage of planes. HogC is obviously out of range.
[This message has been edited by MANDOBLE (edited 04-19-2001).]
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Originally posted by ra:
What we need is an alternative to the MA, like a historical arena. Even 30 people in an HA is a lot of fun.
How about the SEA? Set it up with one of the historic terrains, historic planeset, only 2 countries active... Norway, Mediterranean, Channel (we got one of them?).
[This message has been edited by Sancho (edited 04-19-2001).]
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So whats your point, and what would you like to happen?
People chose the aircraft they are most likely to achieve in. Whats great, is that there are many aircraft to chose from. Many excellent pilots fly P38's P47s D9's. Those, like myself do not have to time to master other aircraft, and are content with the F4C, Niki etc for now. After all the object is to kill. I only look forward to more aircraft to chose from. The last thing we should do is limit them.
ATC (Damned half bellybutton pilot and proud)
Damned MKL
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well damned, the longer you or others stay in n1k or chog the less they will learn...or learn some really bad habits.
Try flying the c205 or la5 or the Yak9U. They are great nimble airplanes that you can treat like a n1k or chog manouver-wise (though you WILL stall and die if you stay with the point and click mentality), have good guns and will give you a good platform to learn both B&Z and T&B ACM'ing.
Like I said in another thread, its the damn isles map that literally demands the chog and fleet flak abuse in order to get something done. I guess ill become a 1 month on 1 month off subscriber because of this.
Wonder why some of those excellent player made maps arent considered for the MA (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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I wonder which planes people would fly instead, if the F4U-1C, N1K2-J and Spitfire F.IX were gone?
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HTC dosnt have the nerve to perk the chog or n1k2.
people would stop playing and quit altogether in droves.
and they would! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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The never-ending story.
I will simply NEVER understand why people worry so about what the OTHER guy is flying.
Good sticks will kill you in anything. ANYTHING. I think Drex would have my number if he was in a Stearman with a only BB gun.
Most of the folks I see in F4U-1C's or N1K1's are thankfully not the really good sticks. Therefore, I kill them as much as they kill me. I kill them way more often than they kill me, if I fly smart. (Some are flown by the pros. KBman and Nash toasted me in their F4's the other night (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) )
A target is a target. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
There will always be a few planes that are significantly more popular than the others. Deal with it.
Now I'm going to go buy some Kimberly-Clark stock. Looks like Kleenex is selling well. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
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Toad
Fly what you like. Like what you fly. Don't worry about what the other guy flies. It's a game.
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just let em dweebs
I know some guys wich when i flew my first weeks on account flew the more manly planes.
(P38) and they now only fly chog or nik
How weak can ur soul be (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
still the chog ain't that easy to fly like the nik IMO.
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The isles map and carriers are the worst things happened to AH.
My squad already lost people and is very near to lose more just because of the CV flak umbrella attacks & isles map enabling that.
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Hehe Citabria I agree, they know very well that the "laserwagen" provides most of the MA population kills and ease of use of the point and kill interface we have there.
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Glasses---I may have 4 eyes ,but you only have one wing.
Besser tot als rot
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Originally posted by Tac:
Wonder why some of those excellent player made maps arent considered for the MA (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Ya know...I have seen this statement on numerous occasions in a lotta threads and if I recall correctly the reason these player made maps arent being used is because they are:
a. too small or
b. not equally balanced enough to be a MA map
Until one of these map makers creates one that is large and balanced for all sides then I doubt we will see a player made map in the MA anytime soon.
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Sling322
Not a Monitor!
Fat Drunk "Chute Shooting" Bastards
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Exactly what Citabria said. Think about it this way ...: flying that cannons and turning crap (and paying) they allow other people fly men's planes (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
(http://web.tiscalinet.it/gatt/logo.gif)
[This message has been edited by gatt (edited 04-20-2001).]
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S!
Yeah...C-Hog,BlueCancer or whatever You want to call it.Everywhere and in numbers.Pray & Spray frenzy.Combine this with the ultimate lethality of the Dweebhano and almost endless supply of ammo. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
N1K2-J are not so numerous,but their UFO qualities bugger.No gravity whatsoever affects them (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
My main ride is 109 and have a LOT to learn in it,but have to fly so called dweebsters(La7 etc.) to stay alive sometimes.
Those 2 planes don't bug me so much as the "park a CV off base and fly from flak umbrella"-syndrome.Why can't we get a new map?Lake Uterus ain't much better either.
Suggestion...Why not to use friendly icons only at less than 3k range and disable enemy icon.Then no danger of shooting at wingie.Also the camo on planes would matter more and these 1k "spray&pray" would lessen or even diminish.MUCH harder to judge distance without the laser range finder with identify the plane gadget (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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DB603
3.Lentue
Lentolaivue 34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34/)
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Icons off and make aircraft two times bigger to compensate the reduced FOV...
I'd like to try and see how that would turn out. Probably it would just look totally weird =)
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The La-7 is now considered a 'dweeb' ride? Compared to what exactly? Its guns are good upto about d400, after that the chances of hitting anything diminish rapidly, and you would be very lucky to damage a plane at d600. You'd also be out of ammo too. I only fire when I know I have a better than 90% chance of hitting - i.e. and d200 or less. It is highly manoeverable, but I've killed a fair few in the tiffie this tour so it's not unbeatable.
Compare and contrast with both the Niki and the Chog - I've been critically damaged at 1k many times, especially with the Chog. If the niki is flown by a half decent pilot, it is very formidable. A half decent pilot in a 202, OTOH, is going to have problems.
[This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 04-20-2001).]
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I don't think anyone should be allowed to fly anything except 1c or n1k until they toughen up a bit.
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Originally posted by Toad:
I will simply NEVER understand why people worry so about what the OTHER guy is flying.
It is really simply Toad, suppose you fly HogC and the rest of players fly only 109F, G2 and G6, you'll be bored of fighting over'n over the same kind of planes in a game that has more than 20 plane types. That is the point I'm worry about. To have fun here, there are two points to consider: the planes you fly and the planes you fight.
All the work made by HTC implementing new planes is of little value (perhaps only marketing), actually, only three plane types are satisfying more than 60% of players. AH will not be a "rich" game even with 100 plane types more. It remembers me the very old arcade games where you had only two kind of enemies (sprites), the normal one and the boss at the end of the game.
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S!
Well..I am not personally calling La7 dweebish.It is far from that.It's true it has speed and turning ability,but lacks the accuracy and ammo plus has a pretty hampered view.The stall is also very violent.But altogether rips a C-Hog to pieces very quickly (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Niki and C-Hog are the 2 most hated planes due to their "point-and-click"-nature (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) I flew the C-Hog in one occasion to see what the fuzz is about.I had a DF and scored only 2 hits(nose and behind cockpit) on another C-Hog from 150d.It disintegrated!If that would have been MG151/20,the Hog would have flown away merrily chanting "I'm gonna get You"...Perk the darn thing! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Niki is just an UFO disguised in clothes of a fighter.It is true it was more than a match to Allied planes with a good pilot,but here it is just ridiculous how good it is.Loses no energy,accelerates like a dragster and turns on a pencilhead. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
It would be interesting too see the FM part of AH, how it is coded and what is calculated for the FM,parameters,what type of modeling we have etc.AI seems to be pretty straightforward and shows no variation->not very complex IMO.
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DB603
3.Lentue
Lentolaivue 34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34/)
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Instead of perking it, I want the Quakebird to get rid of this disguise....
I want to see the real white/grey colour, with that fancy red strip alongside....ah, yes, that nice X shape wing... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
Cheers,
Pepe
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Pepe, you are wrong, it is dark grey with a little sphere between hexagonal vertical wings (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Nope, it's allied (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Pepe
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Wah. I need a tissue.
SOB
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The chog kills a lot due to the numbers using it, specially from CVs. Its cannons and ammo load makes it the best vulch plane.
When vulching a field I have made as many as 17 kills in a single sortie. Many do this and that explaines the chogs kill ration. It is a good attack plane. Have a good ordnance selection and lots of cannon ammo. In a game where attacking fields are the number 1 goal, it is not strange that the chog makes well.
To meet a chog in a 1v1 fight is no real threath in most planes, as long as you avoid HO.
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE:
All the work made by HTC implementing new planes is of little value (perhaps only marketing), actually, only three plane types are satisfying more than 60% of players. AH will not be a "rich" game even with 100 plane types more.
Thats acctually a very good point. It would be more useful to the comunity to give us different paint jobs for the Niki and the Spit IX and the Hog C then to introduce new planes. Let us chose one of several paint jobs for those planes..
But...
During the time I fly (Pacific evenings)its no where near that bad. I dont see that many Nikis. Only an occasional swarm of Hog Cs. Lots of spits I guess but as likey to be the Spit V as the IX.
Maybe certain geographical areas or nationalities really prefer to fly only these planes? So that during some times of the day they are prevelent?
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I always find waves of C-Hogs when trying to defend a base.... they come wave after wave, why you might ask, well think about this:
The best GV killer without bombs = C-Hog
The best hanger strafer = C-Hog
The best vulcher = C-Hog
The C-Hog is the king of all the aspects of a base capture, you never have to worry about having a GV screwing up your capture if you lose your jabo plane if you have a C-Hog, you just hispano it.
The only thing it can't do is actually drop the drunks for you. No wonder it's around a lot. And base capture, if done even half decently, usually yields at least some easy vulch kills.
Then again, I almost never fly the C-Hog, but when I do, it's because I need the flexibility and firepower it brings.
-Soda
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I heard the FDBs woke up in bed together wearing panties last night... What happen? Did the LimpWristed LeatherWearing LittleWiener LuftWaffe get to you guys too???????
Heheheheh
-SW
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Mandoble,
I suggest to you that not everyone is as fixated on the F4U-1C as you might suggest.
I personally never seem to find the arenas full of them.
My kill stats this tour are really diverse. I've been killed (in fighter v fighter combat) by C's roughly 13% of my "deaths" (and a clump of those came in a little furball action between A1 and A4 when kbman and Nash kept whooping me. I'm a slow learner (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) ) I don't fear F4U-1C's and I engage them whenever the opportunity presents itself.
OTOH, I've killed C's roughly 13% of my victories.
I just don't see, kill or die to that many F4U-1C's.
Now your mileage may vary. Please just accept the fact that it is NOT as you see it for all of us.
Your own stats for this tour show that you've died 9 out of 82 times to the F4U-1C. I have no way of knowing what you were in when they got you, but that's about 11% of your deaths.
You have killed F4U-1C's about 7.5% of your victories, 18/239.
You don't seem to be engaging any more of them than I do. Our percentages are reasonably close.
Yet you see an arena always full of them.
I see an arena where they are common but certainly not any more so than N1K1's and not much more than Spits or D-9's.
Sorry, I never will worry about what the other guy flies. A target is a target.
Who am I to dictate what another paying player chooses to fly?
Now fell free to resume this endless discussion. I'm out of it. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Toad
Fly what you like. Like what you fly. Don't worry about what the other guy flies. It's a game.
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE:
Take a serious look at the actual status of kills:
HOGC -> 16496 kills (1769 gvs)
Nikki -> 7521 kills (198 gvs)
SpitIX -> 7120 kills (283 gvs)
At half way down:
La7 -> 4476 kills (116 gvs)
Rest of the planes have as minimum 1000 kills less than La7.
For example:
HOG-D -> 3439 kills (203 gvs)
190D9 -> 3140 kills (63 gvs)
Another example related to buffs:
HOGC -> 2410 buff kills
190D9 -> 586 buff kills
Sincerely, I'm getting bored encountering only Hogs C, nikkis and spits. Dont remember the last time I fought a P51B (for example). IMO, something should be done.
AH is becoming anything but a balanced planeset usage game, is becoming Aces HOG.
Man,
id bet most of the kills Chog get are from
vulching a capped base. i doubt it has more then 1/2 its kills from A2A.
whels
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Toad, your stats or mine stats dont mean anything (at least mine flying mainly 190A5 or A8). Mixing with dozen of CHogs dont mean you'll kill them all or be killed by them. Usualy, before you're able to kill the blue UFO, another blue one has killed him. IMO fighting against Chogs is as boring as fighting with friendly CHogs nearby.
The main and unique objetive of AH MA is to take enemy bases to force reset. Well, this is CHog reign, so, dont expect to find any 190F8 jabos trying to take enemy fields.
About the vulch fests, any plane is good for them. This is the only place where the guns of CHogs are not an advantage. Vulching is anything but an excuse about CHog kills.
Anyway If you read my post, you'll see I'm not talking only about CHog. I'm talking about 3 planes (almost 4) out of more than 20. And, personally, I find more spits IX than Chogs.
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blah blah blah....same old song....time to change the record
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If it isn't the F4U-1C, it's the SpitIX, if it's isn't the SpitIX, it's the N1K, if it isn't the N1K, it'll be the 190D9, if it isn't the 190D9, it's the P51D/B, if it isn't the P51B/D, it's the Bf109G10, if it isn't the 109G10, they are going to find some other plane to piss n moan about.
Give it a freaking rest already. This won't end until we're all flying Stinson's with a single colt .45, then it still won't end. The Stinson will turn too fast and the Colt .45 will be too easy to aim and get too many head shots.
If this game were about equality all of the planes would have the same damned flight model and would all have the same damned guns and the same damned damage model.
Just STFU already and play.
-SW
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I'd like to take this opportunity to say:
SPITS RULE WAFFLES DROOL!
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AKSeaWulfe, I hope all of us desire a balanced arena. Or do you prefer to fly CHog and the rest Nikki just because these are the desired rides of the players? You and the nikki pilots will get bored in few days.
I'm not directly talking about getting rid off CHog, Spits or nikkis. I'm warning about the risk of an arena capitalized by a very small amount of plane types, just because they are the best and more than enough to cover any kind of mission here (even better than buffs).
And finally, some people here are talking about the disaster of WWIIOL having only 109, 110 and Spit (3 planes). Well, where is the diference with AH?
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I agree with Mandoble. I'd like to see Fd-Ski's "Rolling Perk" system. This would give us some realy variety in matchups, and the oneplanejohnwaynegottawins could still get their uberjollies by EARNING a ride.
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I will give you one thing Mandoble, you spew crap like a 2$ potato.
Try looking up my stats smart guy, there's not a Chog or N1K2 sortie on the list. Oh but wait.. I do have 190D9 and 190A5 stats... Ouch!
-SW
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Well,Mandoble, considering you fly the Dora, G10 and A5 alot, yep, just another Chog whine. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Would runing naked around the runway would earn me a P47-D30?
All the work made by HTC implementing new planes is of little value (perhaps only marketing), actually, only three plane types are satisfying more than 60% of players. AH will not be a "rich" game even with 100 plane types more. ... clever thougth (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I have a question, call me stupid but:
If the F4-C is to the F4-D, what the P51-H is to the P51-D, then the P51H will be not perked?
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Mandoble, firs thing I say when I enter enemy terr, it is like invading britain, all I see are spits. I would say minus buffs and my kills against prove it the top 3 are the Chog, Spit IX, and N1k, PT boat doesn't count here.
F4U-1C 130 76
PT Boat 56 68
N1K2 24 59
Spitfire Mk IX 32 43
I have not flown the F4U in over a week, and I wont fly it. I did fly the N1k twice last night and got 10 kills in 2 missions. Diversity is one thing with ease at what they achieve is another. I don't knock what others fly they are paying they can do whatever they want. get rid of one plane the same croud will take the next best thing anyway. Can't be stopped just got to get used to it.
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Sturm6 StaffelKapitän
JV44 Platzschutzstaffel
Airfield Defense Squadron
"Did we give up when the Germans bombed Pearl harbor?" Famous quote from Animal House, John Belushi.
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get rid of one plane the same croud will take the next best thing anyway. Can't be stopped just got to get used to it.
Yep, you're right on track. Been saying that for years now.
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Well, when you're ground pounding, nothing beats the OSTIES and Tanks back nor strafes like a chog. If A/C are trying to up, too bad..Chog is my number one ride for ATG sorties. End of story. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Rip doesn't it et boring being able to unload 20mm missles at will? What gives you more satisfacion killing 8 planes in a Chog, or killing 8 in a 205? I speak for myself only I prefer the LW planes and always will. But I do fly almost every plane in the game. And I will continue to do that. What challenge is it to fly a plane that carries 900 rounds of 20mm N1k included.
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Sturm6 StaffelKapitän
JV44 Platzschutzstaffel
Airfield Defense Squadron
"Did we give up when the Germans bombed Pearl harbor?" Famous quote from Animal House, John Belushi.
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Well, as former CO of JG2 (with 55 members flying under me), my best K/D ratio of all A/C is still in the FW190A8, and P51D. Its the environment (main arena mentality) that makes the hog a killer. ie. you got a nice furball going until some guy comes barreling thru with a Chog...I can do the same damage in a 190A8..its just that the A8 don't carry 8 rockets and 2k of bombs, and thats the REAL reason I'm here, to kill your airbase. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 04-20-2001).]
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SeaWulfe, as a rule (and you now should be used to it) your personal stats dont mean nothing to me.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort:
Well,Mandoble, considering you fly the Dora, G10 and A5 alot, yep, just another Chog whine. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Ripsnot, what do you said I fly a lot????
A5 and A8, punt.
And this is not a CHog FM/guns whine. I, mistakedly, supposed you should be able to understand the content of my post but my poor english makes this impossible for sure (I suppose ;d).
I'm talking about diversity, nothing more, nothing less, not about kill/death stats. If you are happy with the actual diversity of planes in AH, ok, you'll be a happy player for sure.
[This message has been edited by MANDOBLE (edited 04-20-2001).]
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rip, id love to see you shoot your 190's guns at d1.1 and kill with one ping....constantly (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Ripsnort, its not fun when 1/3 of arena planes can spray my 190a8 down from over 1000yards. I'll attack something else if i see f4u1-c because i know if he gets lucky with his spraying when im extending away at 1000yards he will kill me.
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Look on the bright side. The new KI should make you forget all about the nik (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE:
SeaWulfe, as a rule (and you now should be used to it) your personal stats dont mean nothing to me.
I never said "Look at my stats to see how good they are in xxx plane", I said I have 190A5 and 190D9 sorties in my stats when you accused me of flying N1Ks and F4U-1Cs... which I don't have any sorties in either.
You know, kind of like "You don't have to believe me, the data is right in front of your face... use it before making wild bellybutton accusations."
-SW