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General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: RTHolmes on May 28, 2009, 11:07:29 AM

Title: simple Lancstuka fix
Post by: RTHolmes on May 28, 2009, 11:07:29 AM
Quote from: LANCASTER I, III & X PILOT'S AND FLIGHT ENGINEER`S NOTES, Air Ministry, May 1944
46. Flying limitations
(iv) Bomb clearances angles:
   Diving .........30°
   Climb.........20°
   Bank..........10° (with S.B.C.25')

bombs released >30deg foul the airframe causing terminal damage.

problem solved :D
Title: Re: simple Lancstuka fix
Post by: LLogann on May 28, 2009, 11:13:07 AM
That actually sounds like an good idea!!!

Heck Yeah!!!
Title: Re: simple Lancstuka fix
Post by: waystin2 on May 28, 2009, 11:17:13 AM
If the plane was unable to drop it's bombs safely past a certain dive angle then it should not be able to do it in-game. :aok
Title: Re: simple Lancstuka fix
Post by: LCCajun on May 28, 2009, 01:01:41 PM
+100
Title: Re: simple Lancstuka fix
Post by: RTHolmes on May 28, 2009, 01:19:17 PM
If the plane was unable to drop it's bombs safely past a certain dive angle then it should not be able to do it in-game. :aok

I suggest that you can still drop them, just that >30deg and your airframe is destroyed.  :devil
Title: Re: simple Lancstuka fix
Post by: Larry on May 28, 2009, 01:48:59 PM
Just take the lanc outa the game. Problem solved, no more lancstukas. :D
Title: Re: simple Lancstuka fix
Post by: Yossarian on May 28, 2009, 02:23:39 PM
This is actually a sincerely intelligent and good idea.  Me likee.  :D
Title: Re: simple Lancstuka fix
Post by: Spikes on May 28, 2009, 02:32:28 PM
I just say don't let bombs drop from more than a 30 degree angle.
Title: Re: simple Lancstuka fix
Post by: kvuo75 on May 28, 2009, 02:36:02 PM
oddly enough, I doubt most lancstukas in game ever even do more than 30degree down.. thats actually pretty steep.

Title: Re: simple Lancstuka fix
Post by: Denholm on May 28, 2009, 03:44:53 PM
I just say don't let bombs drop from more than a 30 degree angle.
Dive bombers?
Title: Re: simple Lancstuka fix
Post by: SmokinLoon on May 28, 2009, 04:40:12 PM
The abuse goes beyond Lancs.  If the Lancaster is singled out, then the B24, B17, Ju88, and B26 will be next in line for abuse. 

The problem of "lancstukas" needs to be rectified and applied to a class of aircraft, not just a single plane.

Title: Re: simple Lancstuka fix
Post by: Karnak on May 28, 2009, 04:50:50 PM
Ju88 was actually a dive bomber.
Title: Re: simple Lancstuka fix
Post by: BigKev03 on May 28, 2009, 05:09:46 PM
Good idea, but I wouldnt want it to limit all aircraft that are able to dive bomb.  I use the stuka and the SDB from time to time and I love to kick it over in a steep dive deploy the dive brakes and drive home an 1800k bomb or a 1000lb'er.  In addition, the JU-88 is capable of dive bombing and I wouldn't want to see it limited.  But I do like the idea of limiting the true bombers from being able to do this.


BigKev
Title: Re: simple Lancstuka fix
Post by: Baumer on May 28, 2009, 05:12:24 PM
I like the idea of limiting the drop angle to what was really required for each aircraft. However, I can see it as a nightmare for HTC to implement due to a couple of different factors. Maybe when/if they redo the aircraft ordinance model it can be incorporated?

BTW here's a chart for the B-25C to give you an idea of the diving angles for each bomb point.
(http://332nd.org/dogs/baumer/Stuff/B-25cbombangle1.jpg)
Title: Re: simple Lancstuka fix
Post by: Enker on May 28, 2009, 06:07:03 PM
Ju88 was actually a dive bomber.
Is it? I vaguely remember a post from one of the Luftwaffe buffs (Gavagai or Bubi) saying that the Ju-88 was a level bomber with dive brakes/flaps added on because the Luftwaffe thought that the dive bomber was that frakking amazing and was the wave of the future. Of course, I could be wrong.

(Edit: I realize it was used as a dive bomber, but I vaguely recall reading that the dive flaps/brakes/whatever you call them were added as an afterthought.)
Title: Re: simple Lancstuka fix
Post by: Motherland on May 28, 2009, 06:12:27 PM
The Ju 88 was actually used as a dive-bomber as well as as a level bomber.
Title: Re: simple Lancstuka fix
Post by: RTHolmes on May 28, 2009, 06:24:55 PM
the lanc is the main culprit due to its loadout (and i happened to have the docs handy), I'm pretty sure all bombers have limits so whatever was specified would do.

the B-25 limits are complex as you would expect, but it could be modelled as simply as required. the coad already knows which station and type of ord is being dropped so different angles for different stations/ords could be modelled.
Title: Re: simple Lancstuka fix
Post by: Karnak on May 28, 2009, 06:42:05 PM
the lanc is the main culprit due to its loadout (and i happened to have the docs handy), I'm pretty sure all bombers have limits so whatever was specified would do.
The B-17 and B-24 would have harsher limits than the Lancaster as their bomb bays are short and deep whereas the Lancaster's is very long and shallow.
Title: Re: simple Lancstuka fix
Post by: frank3 on May 29, 2009, 06:05:01 AM
bombs released >30deg foul the airframe causing terminal damage.

problem solved :D

Great wish, finally an inovative idea :aok
Title: Re: simple Lancstuka fix
Post by: Swatch on May 29, 2009, 09:17:53 AM
Out of curiosity, why do you think dropping at those angles would foul the airframe.  Maybe at 90 degrees or 80 degrees, but not 30.
Title: Re: simple Lancstuka fix
Post by: frank3 on May 29, 2009, 09:45:29 AM
The bomb might hit the structure with its no-no spot, and cause an effect notorious for many bombs (explosion)
Title: Re: simple Lancstuka fix
Post by: RTHolmes on May 29, 2009, 10:07:20 AM
Out of curiosity, why do you think dropping at those angles would foul the airframe.  Maybe at 90 degrees or 80 degrees, but not 30.

well the limits are there for a few different reasons, for wing hardpoints on twins the bombs might foul the props, release mechs may not work as designed causing the ords to tumble or jam in place. like karnak suggested some of the bomb bays are very "tall" - look at how they're stacked up inside a Havoc for example. airframe damage just looked like the most appropriate option from the AH damage model.
Title: Re: simple Lancstuka fix
Post by: Furball on May 29, 2009, 12:21:53 PM
Am i naive to think that as long as the bomber aircraft pulls positive G at time of bomb drop, the bombs would come out of the racks?  I know from John Comer's book "Combat Crew", that even the G model B-17 would occasionally have problems with bombs getting stuck in the racks, do you think diving angle would make the bombs get stuck?  :confused:

As far as i know, the Ju-88 design was adapted to make it a dive bomber during the prototype stage, there wasn't a production model and then they suddenly thought "we should make this a dive bomber!".

I think it would be great if the limits on dive angle were placed on the allied 'heavies', because i think it would mean that the JU88 would rightfully take it's place as a great aircraft in AH, rather than suicide torp dropper as we have now.  I think the 88 is underutilised.
Title: Re: simple Lancstuka fix
Post by: waystin2 on May 29, 2009, 12:35:35 PM
JU88 Rocks!!!

(http://images.zaazu.com/img/rockstar-rockstar-kiss-gene-simmons-smiley-emoticon-000231-large.gif)
Title: Re: simple Lancstuka fix
Post by: Swatch on May 30, 2009, 12:30:45 AM
well the limits are there for a few different reasons, for wing hardpoints on twins the bombs might foul the props, release mechs may not work as designed causing the ords to tumble or jam in place. like karnak suggested some of the bomb bays are very "tall" - look at how they're stacked up inside a Havoc for example. airframe damage just looked like the most appropriate option from the AH damage model.

I figured that's what you were going for, but it occurred to me that if you're dive-bombing, the bombs will be moving at your same speed, and likely won't fall any faster than you flying toward the ground.  Release Mechanisms are a different cat to skin, but bombs definitely won't fall INTO the props, and are unlikely to fall toward the front of the aircraft at all.  That being said, proper (or should I say, improper) piloting could absolutely cause the bombs to go astray.  You're talking about quite a bit more extensive physics and damage modeling there I would guess.
Title: Re: simple Lancstuka fix
Post by: macerxgp on May 30, 2009, 04:19:24 PM
While we're fixing the bombs, how about some better explosions and dust clouds? Don't tell me I'm the only one who thinks the "paper cutout" explosions are REALLY lame.

I know there's more I want, but I can't recall at the moment.
Title: Re: simple Lancstuka fix
Post by: frank3 on May 31, 2009, 11:11:50 AM
A good penalty for dropping bombs at improper angles, would be a damaged bomb-bay (would have to be modelled though). It seems to me instant death would be abit too much for that.
Title: Re: simple Lancstuka fix
Post by: SNIPER30 on May 31, 2009, 12:49:46 PM
Quote
Insert Quote
I like the idea of limiting the drop angle to what was really required for each aircraft. However, I can see it as a nightmare for HTC to implement due to a couple of different factors. Maybe when/if they redo the aircraft ordinance model it can be incorporated?

BTW here's a chart for the B-25C to give you an idea of the diving angles for each bomb point.

i am all for the 30 degree thing however if you look at the chart baumer put up i am also for the different tpyes of ord incendairy cluster bombs would be nice along with dept charges ....hint...hint(man i'm hungry think i'll go get myself a submarine samich) :D,also if i'm in a osti,wirblewind or field gun and i shoot a bomber in the bomb bay with it's doors open and it still has bombs, it should explode :aok