Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: CrosFire on May 28, 2009, 07:34:28 PM
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I would like it so bomber guns overheat so they cant just spray and pray
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I would like it so bomber guns overheat so they cant just spray and pray
And I assume you would also want to include fighter guns the same, since they were basically the same weapons? Or is this just another "do unto bombers without doing unto fighters" post?
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I have a feeling this will not end well.
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Didn't HT himself personally address the issue of people trying to make bombers easier to kill?
And the answer was no?
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fighter would be nice but i usually in counter this in bombers
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I would like it so bomber guns overheat so they cant just spray and pray
Most experienced bomber pilots don't fire all their rounds off at one con.
I have no trouble killing buffs as it is now...
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Bombers only seem tough to kill because most people just sit on it's 6 firing at it. Easy kill for the bombers when it's 12 .50 cals vs your 2-6 guns. I never attack bombers alone, if I see a bombers formation I report it so others can attack it. Only attack bombers with numbers, and make quick passes. Attack it from unprotected spots as well (Lancs have no ball turret, nor do JU88's). It's alot easier to kill bombers this way....unless 999000 is gunning, in which case all your attempt will be futile!
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As I asked last time someone wished for overheating guns,
How long firing or how many continuous rounds would it take to overheat a gun?
At 15K feet temps?
With a cold wind blowing across the barrel at 200mph?
Just a thought....
wrongway
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And I assume you would also want to include fighter guns the same, since they were basically the same weapons? Or is this just another "do unto bombers without doing unto fighters" post?
You don't think the kind of k/d ratios buffs rack up against fighters in AHII are realistic _at all_ do you?
Average k/d for B-17s and B-24s is around .33-.38. Most kills for these two types are other planes too. That doesn't sound very high, but you've got to factor in bombing and bailing, flying through acks and flacks, Buff-stuka'ing, and all the other gamey practices that reduce the k/d.
I did a hand-count of fighters vs. buff kills for the 3rd frame of the last FSO. This count included kills by 110s and deaths of B-25s btw. If I got it right, the fighter/buff k/d was about 2.71:1
Buffs are given every possible advantage, some of them quite gamey, to make up for the lack of things (in the MA) that gave the real bombers a chance of actually succeeding...high altitude, large, tight formations, and escorts. Myself, I don't see the point of this protectionism towards bombers (maybe we should give the P-40B some advantages so people will fly it...maybe we should give Panzers WW "drones" so they ain't dead meat against Il2s...huh...). But whether you think it is justified or not, don't deny it is there please.
That said, this particular fix seems like it might be a little bit complicated to model and not do all that much.
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Bombers only seem tough to kill because most people just sit on it's 6 firing at it. Easy kill for the bombers when it's 12 .50 cals vs your 2-6 guns. I never attack bombers alone, if I see a bombers formation I report it so others can attack it. Only attack bombers with numbers, and make quick passes. Attack it from unprotected spots as well (Lancs have no ball turret, nor do JU88's). It's alot easier to kill bombers this way....unless 999000 is gunning, in which case all your attempt will be futile!
When I go bomber hunting I always try to take a 30mm along. A K4 works well, and the tactic I use is to come up from straight under and hit the belly of the bomber, even if it's got a ball gun. The K4 is a fairly small aircraft and it is not so easy to hit, especially at the angle you would be coming from.
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You don't think the kind of k/d ratios buffs rack up against fighters in AHII are realistic _at all_ do you?
I made no comment what-so-ever regarding k/d ratios, and for the purposes of this discussion, its not relevant. This has nothing to do with "balance" either. What I'm calling for is consistency. A Ma Deuce hanging on a B-17 pretty much has the same chances of jamming as a Ma Deuce sitting in a P-47 wing, when exposed to long bursts, aka "spraying", per the OP's suggestion. Why? Because its basically the same weapon, built to the same tolerances, using the same parts. About the only difference is the mounting and trigger mechanism. Personally, if there was a method to correctly model guns jamming, I'd be all for it for realism sake. What I am against is applying something like this to bombers without applying it to fighters.
BTW, for the OP or any ordnance experts out there, how many rounds can you put through a Ma Deuce before the barrel becomes so hot that it jams the weapon? I bet 99% of the time that you have a cook-off due to excessive firing time before you have a stoppage (or "jam").
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I personally love to see tards dumping all their rounds out in a few long bursts. Means easy kills for me.
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I personally love to see tards dumping all their rounds out in a few long bursts. Means easy kills for me.
From 1.5k+ out. :aok
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it doesn't matter if they overheat, I thank there explosive rounds any way, couple of pings and the wings fall off my carton plane :cry
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JU-88s ventral guns can almost point staight down. I can't count how many times I'v killed some one because they thought that = )
Back on topic, if they spray and pray, then just sit back and wait for them to run outta ammo, it won't take long.(Lancs have no ball turret, nor do JU88's)
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The OP is basically asking that the game instruct bomber gunners to shoot better and conserve their ammo. No thanks! :rofl
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wasnt guns freezing up more of a problem than overheating?
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A Ma Deuce hanging on a B-17 pretty much has the same chances of jamming as a Ma Deuce sitting in a P-47 wing, when exposed to long bursts, aka "spraying", per the OP's suggestion. Why? Because its basically the same weapon, built to the same tolerances, using the same parts. About the only difference is the mounting and trigger mechanism. Personally, if there was a method to correctly model guns jamming, I'd be all for it for realism sake. What I am against is applying something like this to bombers without applying it to fighters.
BTW, for the OP or any ordnance experts out there, how many rounds can you put through a Ma Deuce before the barrel becomes so hot that it jams the weapon? I bet 99% of the time that you have a cook-off due to excessive firing time before you have a stoppage (or "jam").
actually a ma duece in a p-47 wing has alot more chances of jamming.. firing angle, the route the ammo travels in the wing, g forces.. just to name a few..
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Abracadabra....Poof, your wish is granted 100 fold! Go to offline mode and HTC will make bombers not shoot at you...Or go to TA and they will not cause you damage.
Besides your not going to overheat a M2 barrel so much that it doesn't fire unless your firing for more than a minute straight. You'll slow the rate but it will keep firing.
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It is a valid wish not to make buffs easier to kill but to make it realistic and the buff pilot a better shot. If you make quick burst shots you are actually more likely to get a kill.
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not to make buffs easier to kill but to make it realistic and the buff pilot a better shot.
I don't think so. "Realistic" is a moving target with the players in this game. And, if the buff pilot needs gunnery practice, he can go offline.
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As I asked last time someone wished for overheating guns,
How long firing or how many continuous rounds would it take to overheat a gun?
At 15K feet temps?
With a cold wind blowing across the barrel at 200mph?
Just a thought....
wrongway
It was at least in the back of the pilots minds during missions, I remembered this passage from To Fly and To Fight.
Almost but not quite head on, before he can fire, I put a withering burst into him. You had to be carefull to keep your bursts short. Otherwise, you could melt the inside of the gun barrels, destroy the rifling, and the shells would fly out all over the place. This burst was long enough to be chancy, but I can see the incendiaries bursting all over the front of him.
There are of course some details missing, in this encounter Col. Anderson had chased the 109 to the deck but we don't know things like how fast he's going, altitude nor exactly how long the burst of fire was. Also I don't know if he actually ever did melt the barrels, or know what it would actually take to do it. But at least it seems like it was a concern.
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This is a video of an M-60 shooting supposedly 1500+ rounds through it almost non-stop less a couple of jams. Granted the barrel starts to lose effectiveness after a huge burst and the rate slows it will continue to fire unless a jam occurs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGAwrmOapb4