Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: oakranger on May 29, 2009, 03:38:47 PM
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When i look at A/C like Me 109, p-51, B-17 or He 111. I always wonder why they they the number (109, 51, 17 or 111). Could somebody explained this?
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When i look at A/C like Me 109, p-51, B-17 or He 111. I always wonder why they they the number (109, 51, 17 or 111). Could somebody explained this?
American aircraft were numbered sequentially by date of acceptance for service (ie. P-36, P-38, P-39, P-40, P-47 and P-51 are oldest to youngest sequentially), and the letter designates its primary use- P for pursuit (fighter), B for bomber, C for cargo, X for experimental, etc.
The Germans were usually the manufacturers name and model number- Messerchmitt 109, Focke-Wulf 190, Heinkel 111, etc.
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It's a fairly complex engineering equation which divides the square root of the wing loading at 15% beyond maximum gross weight by pi. Multiply this by the required tire pressure (be sure to use PSI as your units) adding the number of pilot positions.
It's actualy not widely known that the P-51 outfitted with two seats (dubbed the TF-51) is known in the engineering community as a P-52 Mustang.
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When i look at A/C like Me 109, p-51, B-17 or He 111. I always wonder why they they the number (109, 51, 17 or 111). Could somebody explained this?
For German planes, numbers were assigned by thr Reichsluftahrtsministerium (Air Ministry). At a certain point of development, when a design progressed past being a pure "study", the manufacturer/designer asked for allocation of a RLM number.
You can find a pretty good and accurate description on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RLM_aircraft_designation_system
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For German planes, numbers were assigned by thr Reichsluftahrtsministerium (Air Ministry). At a certain point of development, when a design progressed past being a pure "study", the manufacturer/designer asked for allocation of a RLM number.
You can find a pretty good and accurate description on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RLM_aircraft_designation_system
Ah, I always thought it was the manufacturers, since the Bf-108 and Bf-109 are sequential but not both fighters and separated by several years. Just figured the gaps were design proposals that didn't make it to manufacture.
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Ah, I always thought it was the manufacturers, since the Bf-108 and Bf-109 are sequential but not both fighters and separated by several years. Just figured the gaps were design proposals that didn't make it to manufacture.
Sometimes manufactures did ask for specific numbers though. I remember Ernst Heinkel going great lengths to get the prestigious "100" instead of the "113" (which actually was later used for propaganda purposes)
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American aircraft were numbered sequentially by date of acceptance for service (ie. P-36, P-38, P-39, P-40, P-47 and P-51 are oldest to youngest sequentially), and the letter designates its primary use- P for pursuit (fighter), B for bomber, C for cargo, X for experimental, etc.
I knew about the "P", "B" "C" and so on. So what happen to P-37, P-41-46 and the same with bombers? And what about some A/C like TBM, SBD, F6F, F4U. Why the letters?
Ah, I always thought it was the manufacturers, since the Bf-108 and Bf-109 are sequential but not both fighters and separated by several years. Just figured the gaps were design proposals that didn't make it to manufacture.
Thats what i was thinking too.
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I knew about the "P", "B" "C" and so on. So what happen to P-37, P-41-46 and the same with bombers? And what about some A/C like TBM, SBD, F6F, F4U. Why the letters?
Navy designates different- first letter (or pair of letters) designate role, last letter is manufacturer. The number denotes which version of that manufacturers type to fill that role, and the dash number is the variant, like the letter after a USAAF plane- F4U-1 is the first version of the fourth Vought fighter to be used by the navy, F6F-6 is the sixth variation of the sixth Grumman fighter, etc. TBF is Grumman Torpedo Bomber, SBD is Douglas Divebomber, PBY is Consolidated Patrol Bomber, and so on.
A number before the last letter makes it even more confusing. The original SBC (Curtiss divebomber) was called the Helldiver, so when they sold the Navy their new divebomber during the war and called it by the same name, it was designated the SB2C Helldiver- the second Curtiss Helldiver.
Numbers skipped over were usually experimental types that didn't get accepted- the XP-37 was a weird looking P-40 predecessor for example.
(http://www.geocities.com/pentagon/quarters/9485/p37-2.jpg)
(http://www.historicaircraft.org/Army-Air-Corps/images/Curtiss-XP37.jpg)
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Those aren't names as much as they are designations.
"Würger", now there's a name!
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Most names applied to USAAF aircraft (Lightning, Mustang, etc) were given to them by the Brits, who named all their aircraft rather than use number designations. Navy planes were named by their manufacturers. (Grumman 'Cat series, Curtiss Helldiver, Grumman Avenger, Douglas Dauntless, and so on)
Some others were from the press (Flying Fortress) or named in honor of a person (like the Mitchell).
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Treize,
The Helldiver wasn't given its designation because it was specifically the "Second Curtiss Helldiver." Its designation was purely because it was the second Curtiss SCOUT-BOMBER. The original Helldiver was designated SBC.
The Navy gets even more confusing when different manufacturers built the same aircraft. Corsairs were also built by Goodyear and Brewster, but they received entirely NEW designations (FG-1 for Goodyear's first fighter, and F3A-1 for Brewster's third). The aircraft were identical to their Vought equivalents (IE, the F4U-1A, FG-1A and F3A-1A were all the same aircraft) but the Navy still identified them under these designations.
Oh, and then there's cross-branch usage, where the B-24D became the PB4Y with the Navy, and SBDs in the USAAF were called the A-25.
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190s were designated as such because they had so many extra 1's, 0's and 9's from the metal falling from the sky. :devil
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190s were designated as such because they had so many extra 1's, 0's and 9's from the metal falling from the sky. :devil
:rofl :rofl
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American aircraft were numbered sequentially by date of acceptance for service (ie. P-36, P-38, P-39, P-40, P-47 and P-51 are oldest to youngest sequentially)
Incorrect in regards to how the USAAF did it back then.
Let's take the P-51 for example. The P is for 'Pursuit' (which you were correct on) and the 51 is the model number that indicates the number of different models that had been ordered under each type designation, regardless of manufacturer. In our example, the 51 means that the P-51 was the 51st model design. Another example is the B-17 which was the 17th bomber design.
I believe the USAAF still uses this system.
ack-ack
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Incorrect in regards to how the USAAF did it back then.
Let's take the P-51 for example. The P is for 'Pursuit' (which you were correct on) and the 51 is the model number that indicates the number of different models that had been ordered under each type designation, regardless of manufacturer. In our example, the 51 means that the P-51 was the 51st model design. Another example is the B-17 which was the 17th bomber design.
I believe the USAAF still uses this system.
ack-ack
Which is exactly what I said. :confused:
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Which is exactly what I said. :confused:
No, this is what you said.
American aircraft were numbered sequentially by date of acceptance for service (ie. P-36, P-38, P-39, P-40, P-47 and P-51 are oldest to youngest sequentially), and the letter designates its primary use- P for pursuit (fighter), B for bomber, C for cargo, X for experimental, etc.
The USAAF aircraft were not numbered by date of acceptance but by model number ordered. The only think you were correct on was the letter designation.
ack-ack
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Thx guys. Got alot of feed back on the topice that i had no knowledge on.