Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Max on May 30, 2009, 06:26:58 AM
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My hard working step son has saved enough to build a gaming rig. Here's what he has spec'd so far:
ASUS P5E3 WS Pro LGA 775 Intel ATX $260
EVGA 8800GTS 512MB 256 bit PCI express $110
Antec TruPower 750W Continuous X-fire ready $142
Intel Core 2 Duo Wolfdale 3.0 GHz $168
G Skill 2x2GB 240 pin DDR3 1333 $60
WD Caviar Black HD 500 GB 7200 rpm $70
SB X-Fi Xtreme Gamer 7.1 PCI $95
Thoughts?
Thanks :aok
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One suggestion and several thoughts. PC power and cooling Power Supply. It's cheaper and proven.
My thoughts, why such an expensive motherboard. You could go with gigabyte and get a very good board for much less. If I was going to spend that much on the Main Board I would bump up the processor to an i7. But then ram becomes more expensive and the I7 chip is about a 100 bucks more.
Personally I don't trust any Nvidia card that starts with an 8. I'm certainly no expert on those though. I use ATI currently.
Good luck on the build.
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One suggestion and several thoughts. PC power and cooling Power Supply. It's cheaper and proven.
My thoughts, why such an expensive motherboard. You could go with gigabyte and get a very good board for much less. If I was going to spend that much on the Main Board I would bump up the processor to an i7. But then ram becomes more expensive and the I7 chip is about a 100 bucks more.
Personally I don't trust any Nvidia card that starts with an 8. I'm certainly no expert on those though. I use ATI currently.
Good luck on the build.
I have an 8800GTS KO that has been flawless. Max, that card is exceptional, mine is also an eVGA. Ditch the Antec PSU and go PC & Cooling (I have the 750W Silencer), SeaSonic or OCZ.
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I concur on the PSU. Get the PCP&C 750.
I'd also scale back the price on the motherboard. There's a nice Gigabyte/Intel board for about $60 that will do the same job or the nVidia 750i series boards at just over $100.
As to the card I've got an 8800 GTS myself and it's a good card however I think he could find a 9800 at a similar price and probably with GDDR3 vs GDDR2 VRAM. The 8800's are getting a little outdated already.
Finally, it's a matter of preference but I've had problems in the past with two different WD hard drives but never with one of my Seagates.
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The ASUS P5Q MB is half the price.
The 3.16 Wolfdale is only a little more expensive and overclocks to 4.0 fairly easily.
Take the savings from the MB and spend twice as much for a graphic's card.
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I agree, I spend in the $120-$150 range for that build. You can use the extra money saved to get an upgraded video card where I think $100 will definitely be worth it rather than the more expensive motherboard.
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Spend less on MB and more on the video card. Try the Gigabyte EP45 series. Works good, simple layout, lots of eye candy. Some of the early ones use DDR2 memory and some of the later ones DDR3. 750 watt Antec is a good PSU but you can cut costs there by going with a different brand like a Corsair 650 at just over $100 or a PC & Cooling. These savings will open up a lot of better VC possibilities. I have a 8800GTS (early model/340 mem) it still plays games without any problems. But there are many that will perform better. The 8800s are getting a bit old(I have 3 of them) and I wouldn't recommend them for a new computer. Look at the 260s or some of the others at around $200.
Here's a recommendation;
MB; Giga GA-EP45-UD3P $115($135 -$20 mail in rebate)
Mem; 4GB PNY XL8R DDR2 1066 $67(if you use a Nvidia card)
CPU; E8400 3.0GHz $165
PSU; Corsair 750watt $109(119-10 mail in rebate) or
PC & Cooling 750watt $99 (119-20 mail in rebate)
Sound card; SB XFI Xtreme Audio $54 or a Audigy SE $34
WD HD 7200RPM 500GB $70
Total cost around $600 vice $900 = $200+ for a better video card
Some other considerations...Case? Window XP/Vista OS $90
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Yes definitely.. go with a cheaper motherboard.. that is way too much for a socket 775.
I just picked up a 9800GTX+ with 512MB of DDR3 for $99 after $40 rebate. It also came with a free COD game AND free shipping.
From what I understand, the 9800 is the same as the 8800 except with faster memory and Direct X 10 support (although I could be wrong).
Use the money you could save on car insur...er I mean the motherboard... and put it towards a faster 10,000 RPM hard drive... like a Raptor...
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From what I understand, the 9800 is the same as the 8800 except with faster memory and Direct X 10 support (although I could be wrong).
Nope, that's about right.
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Thanks for all the great suggestions, folks. They've been passed along to Mitch.
:salute
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Spend less on MB and more on the video card. Try the Gigabyte EP45 series. Works good, simple layout, lots of eye candy. Some of the early ones use DDR2 memory and some of the later ones DDR3. 750 watt Antec is a good PSU but you can cut costs there by going with a different brand like a Corsair 650 at just over $100 or a PC & Cooling. These savings will open up a lot of better VC possibilities. I have a 8800GTS (early model/340 mem) it still plays games without any problems. But there are many that will perform better. The 8800s are getting a bit old(I have 3 of them) and I wouldn't recommend them for a new computer. Look at the 260s or some of the others at around $200.
Here's a recommendation;
MB; Giga GA-EP45-UD3P $115($135 -$20 mail in rebate)
Mem; 4GB PNY XL8R DDR2 1066 $67(if you use a Nvidia card)
CPU; E8400 3.0GHz $165
PSU; Corsair 750watt $109(119-10 mail in rebate) or
PC & Cooling 750watt $99 (119-20 mail in rebate)
Sound card; SB XFI Xtreme Audio $54 or a Audigy SE $34
WD HD 7200RPM 500GB $70
Total cost around $600 vice $900 = $200+ for a better video card
Some other considerations...Case? Window XP/Vista OS $90
GA-EP45-UD3P $115($135 -$20 mail in rebate) good board but if you get the EP45T (the T denotes DDR3) much faster FSB and memory options.
I am not a fan of PNY Memory, OCZ has faster memory in that same price range DDR2 or if you decide to do the DDR3 version of the Board about 90 for DDR3 mem running much higher speeds. The E8400 can be had for about 130 if you shop and can easily OC to over 4GHz on a DDR3 board with a FSB of 1800 plus. The EP45T has an allowable 2200Mhz FSB.
Your component choice is a good starting point, but could be tweaked a little for better performance. GTX260 from EVGA can be had for about 165.00 on up depending on your budget. THis will make a huge difference across the board no matter what MB, CPU or Mem you use. I also like the PC Power & Cooling 750 over the Cousair
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These PSU's have rebates and free shipping on my site.
http://tdcomputersystems.com/power-supplies/pc-power-cooling/pc-power-silencer-750w-quad-blue/prod_31.html (http://tdcomputersystems.com/power-supplies/pc-power-cooling/pc-power-silencer-750w-quad-blue/prod_31.html) 20.00 rebate
http://tdcomputersystems.com/power-supplies/pc-power-cooling/pc-power-silencer-750w-quad-black-psu/prod_29.html (http://tdcomputersystems.com/power-supplies/pc-power-cooling/pc-power-silencer-750w-quad-black-psu/prod_29.html) 20.00 rebate
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My hard working step son has saved enough to build a gaming rig. Here's what he has spec'd so far:
ASUS P5E3 WS Pro LGA 775 Intel ATX $260
EVGA 8800GTS 512MB 256 bit PCI express $110
Antec TruPower 750W Continuous X-fire ready $142
Intel Core 2 Duo Wolfdale 3.0 GHz $168
G Skill 2x2GB 240 pin DDR3 1333 $60
WD Caviar Black HD 500 GB 7200 rpm $70
SB X-Fi Xtreme Gamer 7.1 PCI $95
Thoughts?
Thanks :aok
Since you plan on using the Core 2 CPU, stay away from the DDR3. The Core 2 CPUs dont utilize DDR3 well. Using the Intel i7 CPUs, they do a greater job of maximing RAM performance. You would be spending more money on DDR3 RAM that has very minimal performance increase vs. the DDR2 when using the Core 2.
Also, if you use Windows Vista 64-bit with the i7 CPU, you would get better utilization of memory with DDR3.
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Since you plan on using the Core 2 CPU, stay away from the DDR3. The Core 2 CPUs dont utilize DDR3 well. Using the Intel i7 CPUs, they do a greater job of maximing RAM performance. You would be spending more money on DDR3 RAM that has very minimal performance increase vs. the DDR2 when using the Core 2.
Also, if you use Windows Vista 64-bit with the i7 CPU, you would get better utilization of memory with DDR3.
"The Core 2 CPUs dont utilize DDR3 well" What are you talking about here. DDR3 and the Core do not matter. Memory on intel boards other then the socket 1366 is controled by the North Bridge, the Processor has nothing to do with this. DDR3 will give you a much faster Memory and the ability to bring your FSB up much higher then DDR2 giveing you an overall performance increase.
If you built two systems with identical components other then the MB (socket 775) and Ram one being DDR2 and one being DDR3, the DDR3 system will out preform the DDR2 across the board esp in benchmarking programs, you will also see a boost in graphics programs like Photoshop and overall OS speed also.
EDIT: The i7 processors now control Tri-Channel memory and have taken the job of the NB. An i7 processor will only work well with Tri-Channel memory. As for the OS being 32 or 64bit. With 64bit you get the availibility of using more ram. You will see a slight (very slight) performance increase with a 64bit OS over the 32bit (using similar amounts of mem) but, most applications will not take advantage of the 64bit unless you have the 64bit version of the software. There is not a lot out there that is 64bit other then commercial applications. In AH II using a 64bit OS you will not be able to pre-load your graphics like you can with 32bit. There are some trade offs for both, but I still prefer the 32bit for my use since most of what I do and use do not make use of a 64bit OS install and the applications will not run properly for my use to make the 64bit install worth while.
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If you are gonna get a power supply,go ALL THE WAY,get a Xion 1000W power supply (6 12V rails @ V1:20 V2:20 V3:20 V4:35 V5:35 V6:20" for about 100 dollars at TigerDirect. Now,I don't really know WHY everyone says intel is a better processor than AMD,you can get a processor with the same spec on everything as an Intel,but spend a whole heck of a lot less,Core i7 965:1000 dollars AMD Phenom II X4 955: about 320, they're about the same,and what isn't you can always overclock,I also believe that mobos ready for AMD processors are a little cheaper too
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If you are gonna get a power supply,go ALL THE WAY,get a Xion 1000W power supply (6 12V rails @ V1:20 V2:20 V3:20 V4:35 V5:35 V6:20" for about 100 dollars at TigerDirect. Now,I don't really know WHY everyone says intel is a better processor than AMD,you can get a processor with the same spec on everything as an Intel,but spend a whole heck of a lot less,Core i7 965:1000 dollars AMD Phenom II X4 955: about 320, they're about the same,and what isn't you can always overclock,I also believe that mobos ready for AMD processors are a little cheaper too
#1 - On a supposed 1000W PSU, I would never buy something listed at a $100 price point. When it comes to PSU's, quality is everything. Once you you find out what kind of wattage/amperage needs you need for the system, choose the quality over price if its in your budget. A pretty good 400W/600W should be in the $100 range (sans rebates etc). A truly good 1000W should push over $200 easy.
#2 - Unless you really have a hole in your pocket to burn, the vast majority of people do not buy the Intel Extreme Edition CPU's. The Intel i7 920 ($280) is a much closer match to the AMD X4 955 ($250). You can google for benchmarks if you want. They'll trade back and forth between a few games at stock speeds, but the i7's will do better in any type of encoding/compiling/synthetic benchmarks. In the $500-$700 of building, it can be a toss up. At $1000+ price points, I think splurging on Intel is well worth it. Then again, it always depends on what you're using your computer for. Not everybody games 24/7.
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Fulmar,believe it or not,even though that PSU IS only $100,it is made by a company called SuperFlower, and yes,although weak as it sounds,I have been looking at their products for quite awhile.every review I have read about them has been good,they are well made,efficient,cool,and quiet. I have seen benchmarks or them running up against an Antec and being every bit as good or better. That has been one of the things the reviewers have wondered though,why do they sell THEIR products that are an equivalent of brand-names for 1/2 price?
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The only Antec model I would possibly consider buying is probably their Signature line. Otherwise I'd probably avoid their PSU's like the plague. I'd generally only recommend Seasonic, Corsair (Seasonic), OCZ, Silverstone, Zalman, and PC Power & Cooking.
The famed Antec PSU's of 5-6 years ago are not the same PSU's of today.
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Fulmar,believe it or not,even though that PSU IS only $100,it is made by a company called SuperFlower, and yes,although weak as it sounds,I have been looking at their products for quite awhile.every review I have read about them has been good,they are well made,efficient,cool,and quiet. I have seen benchmarks or them running up against an Antec and being every bit as good or better. That has been one of the things the reviewers have wondered though,why do they sell THEIR products that are an equivalent of brand-names for 1/2 price?
Xion is not close to the Quality of the brands that Fulmar recommends (as do I and others). If you skimp on the PSU, you've failed at building a quality rig.
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PC Power & Cooking.
they have PSUs that will let you play and make your dinner at the same time? SWEET! :rofl
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they have PSUs that will let you play and make your dinner at the same time? SWEET! :rofl
There are whole lines of cooking appliances available for your computer. Currently I'm using this USB Toaster...
http://store.theonion.com/gotcha-gift-box-usb-toaster-p-71.html
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lol
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There are whole lines of cooking appliances available for your computer. Currently I'm using this USB Toaster...
http://store.theonion.com/gotcha-gift-box-usb-toaster-p-71.html
:rofl I know the perfect person I could pull that on.
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Speaking of which, I was actually given one of these for Christmas...
http://www.skymall.com/shopping/detail.htm?pid=102530884
And it doesn't make any more sense to me today than it did 6 months ago! (And no, I've never plugged it into my laptop, either.)
<S>
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#1 - On a supposed 1000W PSU, I would never buy something listed at a $100 price point. When it comes to PSU's, quality is everything. Once you you find out what kind of wattage/amperage needs you need for the system, choose the quality over price if its in your budget. A pretty good 400W/600W should be in the $100 range (sans rebates etc). A truly good 1000W should push over $200 easy.
The only Antec model I would possibly consider buying is probably their Signature line. Otherwise I'd probably avoid their PSU's like the plague. I'd generally only recommend Seasonic, Corsair (Seasonic), OCZ, Silverstone, Zalman, and PC Power & Cooking.
The famed Antec PSU's of 5-6 years ago are not the same PSU's of today.
Neither of these is a very good suggestion, IMO. If you think you're getting quality based on price, you're throwing your money away. If you think you're getting quality based on brand name, you might be surprised to still get a bad PSU.
What you need to do is decide how much wattage you need/want, then look up reviews on individual PSU models. The Hardocp and Anandtech web sites have been doing some very comprehensive PSU reviews for a number of years now. Check them out, you'll save money and get yourself the best PSU money can buy.
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1000watt PSU is physically large and may pose a problem with some cases. For most non-sli systems its like shooting a mosquito with a bazooka.
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HardOCP and Anandtech are both dependent on ad revenue. They will never say a bad thing about any company that advertises on their site. There is not such thing as a 100% percent objective site as it pertains to computer hardware.
Antec does not make thier supplies any longer. They buy them from the same Chinese plant that 30 other power supply folks buy theres from. The only thing that changes are the labels and colors.
It is true, you cannot trust the names either. Example. PC Power & Cooling supplies are not all PC Power & Cooling designed supplies. OCZ slips some of thier own designs under that name and vice-versa. You have to know what it is you are buying. Now, Seasonic is one of the few companies who make all thier power supplies and they do a good job across the line. Seasonic also makes crappy power supplies for other companies as well, but they are not carried under the Seasonic name.
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You have to know what it is you are buying. Now, Seasonic is one of the few companies who make all thier power supplies and they do a good job across the line. Seasonic also makes crappy power supplies for other companies as well, but they are not carried under the Seasonic name.
Assuming I can identify a quality product, is there a minimum/recommended wattage power supply you would build a computer around?
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It really depends on the computer and supply being used.
If the power supply does not have active PFC controls, then you should be looking at a supply which will run at 80% of its rated load capacity when the computer is in a steady state. Switching supplies cannot run if there is not enough load on them, or they run very dirty when the loads are too light. This is all true it fhtey do not have active PFC circuits. Not passive PFC circuits.
A supply with active PCF circuits and run over a wider load range and provide clean power for that range as well.
I like to run an active PFC supply at about 70% load, when possible.
Efficiency is also something to be concerned about. The lower the efficiency, the bigger the heat sinks have to be. Big heat sinks with an efficient supply is just a bonus. Small heat sinks on a low efficiency supply usually means an early death for the power supply. What makes a power supply efficient is how little energy is lost to thermal conversion (heat).
A higher efficiency supply runs cooler, at the same load, a lower efficiency supply would.
What supply your computer actually need depends on your hardware.
So far, I have made wide use of the PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750W supplies. It is a good solid, well made, supply. It is powering every computer in our office as well as my personal home computer. That is not an endorsement. It is a simple statement.
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Efficiency is also something to be concerned about. The lower the efficiency, the bigger the heat sinks have to be. Big heat sinks with an efficient supply is just a bonus. Small heat sinks on a low efficiency supply usually means an early death for the power supply. What makes a power supply efficient is how little energy is lost to thermal conversion (heat).
A higher efficiency supply runs cooler, at the same load, a lower efficiency supply would.
Makes sense. Reminds me of my ClarkConnect Box that had its PSU go out on it. The day before the said event I noticed that the wattage being ready from my P3 Kil-A-Watt unit had seen a 20-30W increase over its normal readings. The cord plugged into the Kil-A-Watt lead to a UPS that was used with my AMD 2000+ box. Normally the box + 700VA UPS drew about 120-130W. On the day before it blew, it was pushed up to 160W+. After the PSU blew, that whole case was red hot. The box used to run hot, but I always attributed it to the 5 hard drives I had in the setup and not stellar cooling. A new quality higher efficiency PSU has dramatically lowered the case temps, a good 10C easy.
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HardOCP and Anandtech are both dependent on ad revenue. They will never say a bad thing about any company that advertises on their site. There is not such thing as a 100% percent objective site as it pertains to computer hardware.
Skuzzy has always ragged on HardOCP, I think because the owner is an ass. Its true, he's an ass, but no other web site does a better power supply review. Both HardOCP and Anandtech keep their ad dept and their reviewers seperated and they can, IMO, both be trusted. And both routinely give bad reviews to advertisers when its deserved. There's no credence to Skuzzy's accusation. Quite the opposite.
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Skuzzy's pretty much spot on.
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Skuzzy has always ragged on HardOCP, I think because the owner is an ass. Its true, he's an ass, but no other web site does a better power supply review. Both HardOCP and Anandtech keep their ad dept and their reviewers seperated and they can, IMO, both be trusted. And both routinely give bad reviews to advertisers when its deserved. There's no credence to Skuzzy's accusation. Quite the opposite.
They only give bad reviews to those who advertise with them, when they get pissed off at the company. You can continue to use them, if you like. No skin off my nose for it. However, I would never trust them as any single source for information about a product or service. They have earned that through thier own actions over the years. The shame is, there could be good information at those sites, but due to it all being at the whim of relationships, you will never know.
I realize there are fans of the sites. I have no issue if you want to place any credence with them. I have no reason to slam any particular site, unless they give me a reason. What would be the point? The motive?
One other thing. In case you have not noticed, I put all WEB site reviewers in the same boat. None of them can be trusted. They are not going to bite the hand that feeds them. It would be bad business. Why would a business is shoot itself in the foot for its fans? Sure, they want you to believe they would, but really, why would they do it? If you want to believe they are in it for the greater good, it is your choice. I am betting they are in it for the money.
HardOCP and Anandtech are both arrogant enough to think they have some kind of power that excludes them from being hurt by any one advertiser pulling out. The advertiser also knows if they do pull out, it gaurantees bad reviews from that point forward. Remember when NVidia pissed off HardOCP? Had anyone put any faith in those reviews, NVidia would have been out of business. HardOCP went to great lengths to make NVidia look bad. They even changed the way they did the reviews and the benchmarks they used to make sure NVidia would look bad.
You want to trust them. Fine by me. When you come in here and recommend them for good review sites, I will always counter. You do not want to hear it? Do not make the recommendation. Problem solved.
I trust our own clients far more than those sites. They have nothing to lose or gain by telling the truth. Sometimes we have a fanbois come through, but they are weeded out rather quickly and either fall into line or leave.
One last thing. If you ever want to know what I think, just ask. Assuming my motives and trying to impune my credibility, based on those assumptions, will usually not end well for anyone. Show me I am wrong, and I will be the first one to acknowledge it. It is far more important to me our clients get accurate information than anything else. Now you have my motive.
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I use these boards as a resource more than I do any review sites. Every now and then there are some questionable posters but like Skuzzy said they are soon weeded out.
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Every now and then there are some questionable posters but like Skuzzy said they are soon weeded out.
:noid
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:noid
Ouch!! :rofl :rofl :rofl
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I realize there are fans of the sites. I have no issue if you want to place any credence with them. I have no reason to slam any particular site, unless they give me a reason. What would be the point? The motive?
I can only guess. You're only 3 hours apart, you in Grapevine and HardOCP in Austin. Maybe you ran into Kyle at some point and found out that he's an bellybutton in person.
One other thing. In case you have not noticed, I put all WEB site reviewers in the same boat. None of them can be trusted. They are not going to bite the hand that feeds them. It would be bad business. Why would a business is shoot itself in the foot for its fans? Sure, they want you to believe they would, but really, why would they do it? If you want to believe they are in it for the greater good, it is your choice. I am betting they are in it for the money.
That's a very pessimistic viewpoint. But that said, you're clearly right for some web sites, and clearly wrong for others. http://www.dailytech.com/Pay+to+Play+Uncovering+Online+Payola/article7510.htm Lumping them all in the same boat is wrong however.
HardOCP and Anandtech are both arrogant enough to think they have some kind of power that excludes them from being hurt by any one advertiser pulling out. The advertiser also knows if they do pull out, it gaurantees bad reviews from that point forward.
And you know this how?
Remember when NVidia pissed off HardOCP? Had anyone put any faith in those reviews, NVidia would have been out of business. HardOCP went to great lengths to make NVidia look bad. They even changed the way they did the reviews and the benchmarks they used to make sure NVidia would look bad.
Hard OCP caught Nvidia cheating. Here's what he's refering to: http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NTAzLDEsLGhlbnRodXNpYXN0 Looking back, Nvidia cheated because their 5000 series cards sucked. Hardocp did us all a favor by calling them out. Nvidia made themselves look bad by having a bad product and trying to cover it up.
I trust our own clients far more than those sites. They have nothing to lose or gain by telling the truth. Sometimes we have a fanbois come through, but they are weeded out rather quickly and either fall into line or leave.
That's great for you, but who are the people that come here asking for advice supposed to trust? "Some guy" that claims he knows what's best or a web site that posts their testing methodology and tests 10-100 times as many power supplies than "some guy" will ever use, and puts them to a much more thorough test? When asked for advice I'll continue to link review web sites, because they can be trusted more than everyone spouting off "I had good luck with model x of brand y".
One last thing. If you ever want to know what I think, just ask. Assuming my motives and trying to impune my credibility, based on those assumptions, will usually not end well for anyone.
I didn't do anything of the sort. "Skuzzy has always ragged on HardOCP" is a conclusion anyone could make by doing a search of this forum for posts by Skuzzy with Hardocp as a search term.
It is far more important to me our clients get accurate information than anything else. Now you have my motive.
Saying in essence "every web site can't be trusted, trust me instead" is terrible advice. I can't see how this meets your goal of getting clients accurate information.
As far as power supplies go, HardOCP has the most comprehensive testing methodology of any web site on the planet. I wouldn't recommend them for their Track IR review, or their KillerNIC review, or their flight sim reviews (they've done a couple), but for power supplies, and that was what was most recently on topic here, there's no better than HardOCP for good info.
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I used to be a fan of HardOCP but their total lack of objectiveness towards Vista opened my eyes.
I also noticed heavy changes in attitudes over time. Nevertheless they did make moves which made sense to me, like ending testing with 3DMark and the likes. Real world gameplay testing is far more revealing than 3DMark especially when considering 3DMark tunes their benchmark towards the highest bidder. Several drivers have been caught with 3DMark 'optimizations' aimed to produce unrealistically high points in the tests.
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I never said trust me. If anyone choses to trust my word, I like to think it is because I have earned that trust. I am an electrical engineer with 30+ years of experience. I do far more than just use power supplies, or any other equipment (again, you have made more assumptions). I have a lot of fun dissecting all of it and testing it. I do not need a HardOCP or any other review site doing some superfluous tests to tell me if hardware is good or bad.
However, I keep my opinions mostly to myself and try to let the community make its own decisions. If something is stated that needs further clarification, and I happen to have that bit of knowledge, I will chime in. I cannot afford to give out erroneous information. My job depends on me being factual and accurate. The only motive I have is for everyone to be able to play our game and not have the computer be the stumbling block preventing them from having fun.
All video card companies cheat in benchmarks, without fail. That has been going on for a very long time and continues to this day. Of course, you need to define what a cheat is. HardOCP appears to rearrange that definition to suit their needs. The more drama they can create, the more users will flock to their site. Basic marketing at work. They have always been very good at that. They are one of the better marketing sites out there. They know how to generate traffic to thier site by creating controversy.
Again, if you like them, fine by me. More importantly, if you trust them, then that is your call. I have no reason to trust them.
I am not responding to some of your other remarks simply due to lack of time, and interest on my part. I have no problem if you like them. The only time I will ever have an issue is when they are recommended as good places to get information.
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I can only guess. You're only 3 hours apart, you in Grapevine and HardOCP in Austin. Maybe you ran into Kyle at some point and found out that he's an bellybutton in person.
That's a very pessimistic viewpoint. But that said, you're clearly right for some web sites, and clearly wrong for others. http://www.dailytech.com/Pay+to+Play+Uncovering+Online+Payola/article7510.htm Lumping them all in the same boat is wrong however.
And you know this how?
Hard OCP caught Nvidia cheating. Here's what he's refering to: http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NTAzLDEsLGhlbnRodXNpYXN0 Looking back, Nvidia cheated because their 5000 series cards sucked. Hardocp did us all a favor by calling them out. Nvidia made themselves look bad by having a bad product and trying to cover it up.
That's great for you, but who are the people that come here asking for advice supposed to trust? "Some guy" that claims he knows what's best or a web site that posts their testing methodology and tests 10-100 times as many power supplies than "some guy" will ever use, and puts them to a much more thorough test? When asked for advice I'll continue to link review web sites, because they can be trusted more than everyone spouting off "I had good luck with model x of brand y".
I didn't do anything of the sort. "Skuzzy has always ragged on HardOCP" is a conclusion anyone could make by doing a search of this forum for posts by Skuzzy with Hardocp as a search term.
Saying in essence "every web site can't be trusted, trust me instead" is terrible advice. I can't see how this meets your goal of getting clients accurate information.
As far as power supplies go, HardOCP has the most comprehensive testing methodology of any web site on the planet. I wouldn't recommend them for their Track IR review, or their KillerNIC review, or their flight sim reviews (they've done a couple), but for power supplies, and that was what was most recently on topic here, there's no better than HardOCP for good info.
I have a Kleenex for you, since you're gonna start cussing (especially at a Forum Administrator). I review ANY component by WHO USES THEM. ALL magazines use marketing as a sway, Car and Driver, Road & Track and most PC magazines. I don't care what a magazine thinks.
When I built this PC, I called Skuzzy, he gave me an honest recommendation. I listened to him and bought a PC & Cooling 750W Silencer. It is built to last, it has been flawless on top of it. Good enough for me. I also tapped this Community and went with "what worked". I have not a single regret of ANY personal experiences they shared.
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I have a Kleenex for you, since you're gonna start cussing (especially at a Forum Administrator). I review ANY component by WHO USES THEM. ALL magazines use marketing as a sway, Car and Driver, Road & Track and most PC magazines. I don't care what a magazine thinks.
When I built this PC, I called Skuzzy, he gave me an honest recommendation. I listened to him and bought a PC & Cooling 750W Silencer. It is built to last, it has been flawless on top of it. Good enough for me. I also tapped this Community and went with "what worked". I have not a single regret of ANY personal experiences they shared.
I read what Skuzzy posted about power supplies. Then read some reviews and later took into account what the rest of the folks had to say. Sad to say I did this after my first build but the second one was sensational.
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All video card companies cheat in benchmarks, without fail. That has been going on for a very long time and continues to this day. Of course, you need to define what a cheat is. HardOCP appears to rearrange that definition to suit their needs. The more drama they can create, the more users will flock to their site. Basic marketing at work. They have always been very good at that. They are one of the better marketing sites out there. They know how to generate traffic to thier site by creating controversy.
The good thing about benchmarks is that you can reproduce them by yourself - if you lack trust and happend to have the right hardware.
But the new style of Hardocp testing which uses 'playable settings' as benchmark instead of raw fps figures is IMO fishy. They basically offer their interpretation of the settings that should be used when playing with a certain card and it makes the results [H]ard to read.
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My hard working step son has saved enough to build a gaming rig. Here's what he has spec'd so far:
ASUS P5E3 WS Pro LGA 775 Intel ATX $260
EVGA 8800GTS 512MB 256 bit PCI express $110
Antec TruPower 750W Continuous X-fire ready $142
Intel Core 2 Duo Wolfdale 3.0 GHz $168
G Skill 2x2GB 240 pin DDR3 1333 $60
WD Caviar Black HD 500 GB 7200 rpm $70
SB X-Fi Xtreme Gamer 7.1 PCI $95
Thoughts?
Thanks :aok
I just purchased this laptop for son. has ati radeon video card hd 3650 512 mb and web cam mic 64 bit system loaded aces high and its cleaner brighter than my twin gf9800 cards duel core with sata drive. now wish i just got lap top all this for $712 400gb hd and 4 gig memory.
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The most useful information in this thread for me was this:
A supply with active PCF circuits and run over a wider load range and provide clean power for that range as well.
I had always seen PFC described as the equivilent of a "catalytic converter" for your power supply - essentially meaningless in terms of the quality of power it provides to your computer, and solely of interest in terms of feedback into the electrical "environment". I was unaware until Skuzzy mentioned it (and I looked at some schematics) that it really is more than that - its a better way to design a power supply to begin with.
So, Thanks again!
<S>
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I never said trust me. If anyone choses to trust my word, I like to think it is because I have earned that trust. I am an electrical engineer with 30+ years of experience. I do far more than just use power supplies, or any other equipment (again, you have made more assumptions). I have a lot of fun dissecting all of it and testing it. I do not need a HardOCP or any other review site doing some superfluous tests to tell me if hardware is good or bad.
However, I keep my opinions mostly to myself and try to let the community make its own decisions. If something is stated that needs further clarification, and I happen to have that bit of knowledge, I will chime in. I cannot afford to give out erroneous information. My job depends on me being factual and accurate. The only motive I have is for everyone to be able to play our game and not have the computer be the stumbling block preventing them from having fun.
All video card companies cheat in benchmarks, without fail. That has been going on for a very long time and continues to this day. Of course, you need to define what a cheat is. HardOCP appears to rearrange that definition to suit their needs. The more drama they can create, the more users will flock to their site. Basic marketing at work. They have always been very good at that. They are one of the better marketing sites out there. They know how to generate traffic to thier site by creating controversy.
Again, if you like them, fine by me. More importantly, if you trust them, then that is your call. I have no reason to trust them.
I am not responding to some of your other remarks simply due to lack of time, and interest on my part. I have no problem if you like them. The only time I will ever have an issue is when they are recommended as good places to get information.
Damn right Roy. You've helped hundred's and hundred's of your own customers, while taking time out of your own work. In doing so, you have kept many of us in this game. I've never understood HardOCP fanboi's myself.
Thank you.