Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Flitze on April 22, 2001, 12:55:00 PM
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Why are players always demanding such planes like
P47M
Do335
P51H
Spit F21
and so on ?
Are there not any "normal"=non perk planes missing in AH ?
Like
B24
B25
Ju188 (some variants may be perked)
PBY Catalina
Mosquito (ok, maybe perked or not)
many ordinary japanese fighters and bombers
Il-2
some russian bombers
Btw, I'm still missing the 1000kg bomb or some missiles for the 190F8.
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Written by Flitze
[This message has been edited by Flitze (edited 04-22-2001).]
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Perked Ju-188? What model would that one be?
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Flitze,
Here are my opinions on the aircraft you listed:
B-24: This is functionally a B-17 in different clothes. Its stats are slightly different, but the roll is the same. With the number of American units already in AH, and the amount of work a 4 engined aircraft requires, I think the B-24 should be very low on HTC's priority list.
B-25: This fills the same roll as the B-26, as well as having ground attack versions. Once again it is an American aircraft and we have enough for awhile. I think the B-25 should be added much sooner that the B-24, however.
Ju188 (some variants may be perked): There are many German aircraft already in AH, but I agree that the Germans need more bombers. I do not think that any German bomber, other than the Ar234, should be perked. I would rather see the He177 as the next German bomber, but the Ju188 is a good aircraft as well. I think that a new German bomber should be a low priority.
PBY Catalina: Yet another American aircraft, and my current opinion of adding more of those has already been stated. I would very much like the first flying boat to be the Kawanishi H8K2 "Emily". Not only is the "Emily" a better flying boat, but it would fill many need rolls for both the Japanese and Axis. It gives the Japanese a tough, well defended four engined bomber and torpedo aircraft. With slight modification to the H8K3 it adds troop carrying capability, although the H8K3 would need to be perked. I would kind of like to see the H8K2 and PBY Catalina added at the same time. The H8K2 is one of my top 3 choices for new aircraft to be added.
Mosquito (ok, maybe perked or not): Yes, we need the Mosquito. I would like to see Mosquito FB.MkVI, Mosquito B.MkXVI, Mosquito FB.MkXVIII and, if night fighters are added, the Mosquito NF.30. The Mosquito B.MkXVI and Mosquito NF.30 may need to be perks. The Mosquito is the third part of the 3 core aircraft of the WWII RAF in the popular mind, Spitfire, Mosquito and Lancaster. I think that the Mosquito should be a high priority for HTC.
many ordinary Japanese fighters and bombers: I agree. There are too many to mention, but I think this should be HTC's highest priority.
Il-2: I think, not positive, that we will see this one in v1.07. This is my 5th most desired aircraft for AH. I think this should be a high priority, but I also think that NATEDOG is working on it right now. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
some Russian bombers: Once again, I agree. I would like to se the Tu-2 more that the Pe-2, but they both need to be added at some point. I think this should be a high priority for HTC.
The reason I responded is that you mentioned the Spitfire F.21, and I believe that you mentioned it because of one of my posts. I am not actually very keen on getting the Spitfire F.21, I only mention it because the Luftwaffe fans are so keen on requesting a never ending stream of German aircraft that simply HAVE to be in the next version. I use the Spit 21 as a reference to the fact that they already have the German equivalent in the Ta152H-1. I do want the British equivalent to the Fw190D-9, the Spitfire MkXIV, but that entered service in Jan. 1944, more than a year before the Spitfire 21.
I would like to see the late war plane set finished, or at least mostly finished before moving to early war aircraft. Why? Because only the Germans and Americans have their late war plane set anywhere near finished. I would like to see the Japanese, Russian and British (I'm afraid there is no real hope for the Italians) get their late war aircraft as well.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Spitfire F.MkXIVc to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
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The German planset needs these aircraft...
I will list the aircraft and the role they would fill in the game...
Ju-188 < Night Bomber
He-111 < Day Bomber
He-219 <
Fw-190A6/R11 < Anyone of these 3 would fill
Bf-110G < Nightfighter role.
Bf-110C or G < Bomber Intercept/Jabo
Bf-109 E4 or E7 < BOB day fighter
IMO these are the aircraft the German Planset desperaley needs...
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Originally posted by Nefarious:
The German planset needs these aircraft...
I will list the aircraft and the role they would fill in the game...
He-111 < Day Bomber
Um, you mean in scenarios, I hope.
You'll be lucky to see one He-111 a week in the Main arena.
Do-217 is a better bet.
Bf-110C or G < Bomber Intercept/Jabo
Not survivable in this MA. You need the 410.
[This message has been edited by Torgo (edited 04-22-2001).]
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the He111 would make an excellent torp bomber and an excellent low level attacker WHEN ESCORTED.
The Bf110 When escorted would be more than adequate for destroying Heavy bombers in a single pass...
Just because Its at a disandvantage in the MA doesnt make it obsolete...
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Flitze, could you explain me why the P47M would be perked please? (I'm not very familliar with those big radial planes.)
Btw, I'm still missing the 1000kg bomb or some missiles for the 190F8.
And if I may notice, you don't wish perk planes, only perked weapons (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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SFRT - Frenchy,
470mph.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Spitfire F.MkXIVc to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
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Karnak,
I have to disagree with a few of your comparisons.
First off, the B-24 is not a B-17 in different clothes. Both are very different aircraft, although the roles they served happened to lump them into similar categories. First off the Liberator was a faster aircraft capable of carrying a larger bomb load. The Liberator also was of much different construction, to the Liberators loss. The 17 was a much stronger airframe compared to the Liberator, proof of such being that the Liberator was subject to many structural failures due to damgae that the 17 easily absorbed. The Liberator climbed faster and had a longer radius as well. Many Liberator pilots were disgsted with their product though due to the lack of survivability the aircraft offered.
The B-25 is not the same aircraft as the B-26, nor is the A-26. The B-25 was a light to medium altitude bomber that was a relatively stout airframe and the versatility that the 26 did not. Proof being that the aircraft served all facets during WW2. Including but not limited to ground attack with a 75mm cannon (B-25H), a modified naval variant capable of carrying a torpedo, photo reconnaisance, and path finder. Also, note that the B-25 flew with MANY different countries, including the USSR England, New Zealand, Australia, Canada, and others.
The fact that these aircraft are American should not matter whether they are included or not, what should matter is whether they served in a role that did affect the outcome of their purpose. Which all of these aircraft did.
[This message has been edited by Bodhi (edited 04-22-2001).]
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Bodhi,
B-24: If 8,000lbs, as opposed to 6,000lbs, is much larger and 10 more mph is much faster, ok they are very different. Please explain what the B-24 would bring to Aces High RIGHT NOW.
B-25: I never said it was. I said it would fill the same roll as the B-26 with ground attack versions available as well. No where did I say that it was a B-26 and an A-20, thats obviously silly. What would the B-25 bring to Aces High RIGHT NOW that we can't posibly live without and can't fill with a Russian, British or Japanese aircraft?
Fine, lets ask HTC to add all the American and German aircraft and then think about adding Russian, British and Japanese aircraft. After all, it doesn't matter if I, and many others, cancel our accounts in frustration.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Spitfire F.MkXIVc to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
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I have to agree with Flitze. I always wonder why there is a pressing "need" for the ultimate type mark. ie P-47M,P-51H.
I understand the relative ease these can be produced compared to a completely new plane. IMHO all they do is drown the game into a mire of types, and subtypes.
As for your suggestions:
B-24 Useful but low priority
B-25 Light-mid bombers are a priority but would prefer a Pe-2/Tu-2
Ju-188 An interesting type.
Catalina Not sure of the usefulness of a Flyingboat, but unique idea. Would suggest a Short Sunderland
Mossie High priority in all its roles.
Also would like to see a Beaufighter
Il-2 High Priority. Surprised if not in 1.07
Tronsky
[This message has been edited by -tronski- (edited 04-22-2001).]
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Originally posted by Karnak:
SFRT - Frenchy,
470mph.
Wohoo 470MPH!!!! Yeah baby.... heu... on the deck Karnak?
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Frenchy,
No, but neither can the Ta152H-1, and its a perk. It can't do 470 until its up at 40,000ft. If I remember correctly, the Ta152 does about 330 on the deck.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Spitfire F.MkXIVc to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
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S!
I would like to get more RAF,Italian and Japanese planes over US or LW.
RAF should definitely get a later model Spit than the Mk.IX.Also Mosquito(VERY versatile) would be nice and the Beaufighter(8 x rockets + Torpedo (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)).
Italians have least planes with Japanese.Give them more and refine FM of Niki (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)What LW needs is a better medium bomber than the early Ju88A-4.
Russians should also get more ftrs and bombers + the IL-2.
By adding more planes to other than LW/USAF would IMO bring more balanced gameplay.Now some countries have only a very limited choice of planes.
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DB603
3.Lentue
Lentolaivue 34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34/)
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Fw-190A6/R11 < Anyone of these 3 would fill
YES!!! YES!!!! YES!!! IM NOT ALONE!!!!
I want that FW 190A-6 so much!! 4xmg151/20 and no extra armor of PzBock-A8.
If 190a6 is introduced in AH ill pay 30$ with smile.
A6!!!
A6!!!
A6!!!
:O
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Karnak,
I personally feel that the B-24 and B-25 bring a hell of a lot more to the game than the Catalina or Pe-2. They are both going to be used more so in scenarios and that genre then the others, with the exception of Japanese Buffs. Lastly, I personally feel there are better ways to motivate HTC than crying, "do it my way or I quit!" In case you forget, they have experienced a fairly large migration and a few people leaving is not going to hurt.
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Actually, illo, I believe that the difference between an A6 with 4 x MG151 and an A5 with 2 x MG151 + 2 x MGFF would be negligible at best.
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SageFIN
"It´s your god.
They´re your rules.
You go to hell."
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Karnak,
No, but neither can the Ta152H-1, and its a perk. It can't do 470 until its up at 40,000ft. If I remember correctly, the Ta152 does about 330 on the deck.
I think you got my point there, on the 15 hours you spent on a fighter, how long where you at 40K? (actually I should say over 30K).
We all know that the dangerous planes are the ones who are fast on the deck, as it's always where you end after numerous split Ss.
I'm in no mean flaming you Karnak, but I'm against the idea of perking a plane because it can fly fast at the tropopose.
I believe that the TA152, or P47M must be perked because not a lot of them were produced for WW2 (Now off course, somebody will talk about those 200 HogC).
Maybe the TA152 climbs good or has a good acceleration.
When a lot of variants are available in the game, I think it's good to perk the last "top of the line" model, so people are not tempted to go lazy and grab "the beast".
As far as I'm concerned, a Tempest(guns/speed/climb rate), a LA7(speed and acceleration) is a real threat down low...(when I fly P47 off course).
Why such plane is perked and so expensive, why this one is not? It's HTC choice, do I agree with it or no. I recall that HTC is testing the perk system, they need to gather some stats on the long run about it. Then they will probably re-ajust costs for each plane and make various over-used planes perked.
I'm confident in HTC to elaborate a fair "perk ladder", as so far they always inproved the game for the better.
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Olivier "Frenchy" Raunier
(http://home.cfl.rr.com/rauns/sig-frenchy6.jpg) 63rd FS, 56th FG
"Zemke's Wolfpack"
You may want to fly above this red light, Olivier "Frenchy" Raunier while flight instructing on short final runway 04 KMLB.
[This message has been edited by SFRT - Frenchy (edited 04-23-2001).]
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"Why super-planes"??
Because that's what about 70% of WW2 flightsimmers prefer. The people who like the early-war planes are a vocal minority.
J_A_B
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Originally posted by Karnak:
Flitze,
Here are my opinions on the aircraft you listed:
B-24: This is functionally a B-17 in different clothes. Its stats are slightly different, but the roll is the same. With the number of American units already in AH, and the amount of work a 4 engined aircraft requires, I think the B-24 should be very low on HTC's priority list.
B-25: This fills the same roll as the B-26, as well as having ground attack versions. Once again it is an American aircraft and we have enough for awhile. I think the B-25 should be added much sooner that the B-24, however.
Ju188 (some variants may be perked): There are many German aircraft already in AH, but I agree that the Germans need more bombers. I do not think that any German bomber, other than the Ar234, should be perked. I would rather see the He177 as the next German bomber, but the Ju188 is a good aircraft as well. I think that a new German bomber should be a low priority.
PBY Catalina: Yet another American aircraft, and my current opinion of adding more of those has already been stated. I would very much like the first flying boat to be the Kawanishi H8K2 "Emily". Not only is the "Emily" a better flying boat, but it would fill many need rolls for both the Japanese and Axis. It gives the Japanese a tough, well defended four engined bomber and torpedo aircraft. With slight modification to the H8K3 it adds troop carrying capability, although the H8K3 would need to be perked. I would kind of like to see the H8K2 and PBY Catalina added at the same time. The H8K2 is one of my top 3 choices for new aircraft to be added.
Mosquito (ok, maybe perked or not): Yes, we need the Mosquito. I would like to see Mosquito FB.MkVI, Mosquito B.MkXVI, Mosquito FB.MkXVIII and, if night fighters are added, the Mosquito NF.30. The Mosquito B.MkXVI and Mosquito NF.30 may need to be perks. The Mosquito is the third part of the 3 core aircraft of the WWII RAF in the popular mind, Spitfire, Mosquito and Lancaster. I think that the Mosquito should be a high priority for HTC.
many ordinary Japanese fighters and bombers: I agree. There are too many to mention, but I think this should be HTC's highest priority.
Il-2: I think, not positive, that we will see this one in v1.07. This is my 5th most desired aircraft for AH. I think this should be a high priority, but I also think that NATEDOG is working on it right now. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
some Russian bombers: Once again, I agree. I would like to se the Tu-2 more that the Pe-2, but they both need to be added at some point. I think this should be a high priority for HTC.
The reason I responded is that you mentioned the Spitfire F.21, and I believe that you mentioned it because of one of my posts. I am not actually very keen on getting the Spitfire F.21, I only mention it because the Luftwaffe fans are so keen on requesting a never ending stream of German aircraft that simply HAVE to be in the next version. I use the Spit 21 as a reference to the fact that they already have the German equivalent in the Ta152H-1. I do want the British equivalent to the Fw190D-9, the Spitfire MkXIV, but that entered service in Jan. 1944, more than a year before the Spitfire 21.
I would like to see the late war plane set finished, or at least mostly finished before moving to early war aircraft. Why? Because only the Germans and Americans have their late war plane set anywhere near finished. I would like to see the Japanese, Russian and British (I'm afraid there is no real hope for the Italians) get their late war aircraft as well.
well its just a darn shame that you dont have any say i the way HTC runs this business. Man, just think if you were in charge? They seriously need to consider offering you a position..maybe public relations (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
ammo
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Originally posted by Flitze:
Why are players always demanding such planes like ... and so on ?
Are there not any "normal"=non perk planes missing in AH ?
Good question. I'd like to see some more early-mid war planes in AH as well.
Camo
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Camouflage
XO, Lentolaivue 34
www.muodos.fi/LLv34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34)
Brewster into AH!
"The really good pilots use their superior judgement to keep them out of situations
where they might be required to demonstrate their superior skill."
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Originally posted by J_A_B:
"Why super-planes"??
Because that's what about 70% of WW2 flightsimmers prefer. The people who like the early-war planes are a vocal minority.
Huh? Prove it, J_A_B. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Camo
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I might be wrong but didnt the Liberator have greater range than the flying fortress, If it did, I dont see why it wouldnt be a good addition to the very small bomber fleet that AH has already...
B26
B17
Lancaster
Ju 88
I dont count the Arado or the Avenger because I dont classify the TBM or the Arado as Heavy bombers
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Nefarious,
Eventually, yes, but I'd like to see some Russian and Japanese bombers first. Even more British or German bombers would be, IMO, better.
Currently we have:
B-17G
B-26A
TBM-3
Lancaster MkIII
Ju88A-4
Ar234A
I'd like the following bombers, in order,to be added gradually:
H8K2
Tu2
Ki67
B-29A (perk bomber)
Mosquito B.MkXVI (perk bomber)
S.M.79 II
He177
B-25
B7N "Grace"
B-24
Ju188
Pe2
P1Y1
Now going to early war:
Ju87
He111
Do17
Wellington
Swordfish
B5N "Kate"
Dauntless
"Val"
Devastator
Blenheim
Battle
This is, of course, just my opinion.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Spitfire F.MkXIVc to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
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Actually, illo, I believe that the difference between an A6 with 4 x MG151 and an A5 with 2 x MG151 + 2 x MGFF would be negligible at best.
MG/FF low velocity cannon has different trajectory than mg151/20. 4xmg151/20 are much more accurate, hit same place same time, have better punch at longer range. Also it had lighter wing structures.
I think a6 is best of 190A models in fighter role. Yes there isnt big difference to a5 in its basic configuration, but i love it. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
A6 made some Rsatze available
FW 190A-6 2xmg17 and 4xmg151/20
FW 190A-6/R1 +6x20mm MG151/20 in underwing gondolas.
FW 190A-6/R4 Turbochanrged BMW 801TS (683kmh/424mph at 10500m/34,450ft)
FW 190A-6/R6 +4xmk108 (heaviest armed singleseat of war)
FW 190A-6/R11 Nightfighter with Neptun radar.
used in Wilde Sau missions in 1944.
Jabo 190A-6 could carry up to 1000kg bomb in centreline rack.
Also 190A-6 was main model used by JG 1, JG 5, JG26, JG 51 and JG 54 against US daylight bombers in 1943-44. I consider it is very important model and the best of FW 190As.
[This message has been edited by illo (edited 04-23-2001).]
[This message has been edited by illo (edited 04-23-2001).]
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First, I have to say that I've nothing against perk planes even better than Tempest.
In the main arena that's no problem, because of the perk points. They limit these planes to acceptable numbers. I actually never flown in MA, since perk planes were invented, but perhaps I will.
In H2H, where I fly in the moment, it's different and may be a problem, because of the balance. It will become boring when some Me262s roam the Arena while "hogs" and "Würger" are trying to chase them (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) The differences are too great. I just think it's easier to maintain the balance if there are some middle-war planes.
And there are so many interesting planes like the Beaufighter, Emily, He219 mentioned here. For some of these planes, AH is not ready yet (e.g. night-fighters).
But what makes this game interesting ?
It's not the raw number planes or how good they are. It's the variety of tactical capabilities, the number of different possibilities e.g. to take an airfield. Day and night. A larger variety of weapon loadouts. What about a map with unknown enemy airfields you have to recon first ? Ok, that's not part of "Aircraft and Vehicles" anymore, but "Gameplay". But it begins with aircraft and vehicles, because that's what the players are shouting for first. And sooner or later they will realize, that not a better P47, P51 or a Me262 will bring more fun, because they are still fighters, but some aircraft and vehicles that are used differently from the others, enabling the gameplay to be enhanced. One step HTC will do in this direction is the landing craft. But there is maybe much more and since you all have influence on the vehicles and planes used in AH, it's up to you to choose the path.
Staga, I've meant the (unarmed) Ju188S which had a maximum speed around 680 kph (424 mph) with 800kg bombload similar to the fastest Mosquitos. Such a bomber, together with the excellent handling characteristics would be perked, I think. But no need to use this type, if there is an equivalent Mossie in the arena. Just the same plane in two different outfits wouldn't enrich the game (see above).
And that's the reason I would prefer an Emily above another 190. A 190A6 with the same 500kg bomb, the same Wgr 21 and the same four 20mm cannons would just be another 190, no real enhancement for the game. Different types of 190 to use different weapons (gondolar cannons, bombs, missiles, torpedos, ...), that sounds a little bit better to me.
Think about it, guys ! Be creative, cause I'm not ! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Written by Flitze
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And that's the reason I would prefer an Emily above another 190. A 190A6 with the same 500kg bomb, the same Wgr 21 and the same four 20mm cannons would just be another 190, no real enhancement for the game. Different types of 190 to use different weapons (gondolar cannons, bombs, missiles, torpedos, ...), that sounds a little bit better to me.
You didnt read my post, did you?
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I used the 190A6 example to clarify my statements, not to negate yours, illo. I don't want to prevent you from flying the A6.
Best regards,
Flitze
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Well A-6 has the loadouts (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Anyway there are much more needed planes IMHO.
But I still cant wait the day ill get my A-6.
He 177a-5/r2 Greif would be neat for axis buff. It was He 177s major production version.
He 219A-7/r2 Uhu for nightfigter
Me 323E-2 Gigant for Troop&Armor transport
Ofcourse most urgently needed planes are
Japanese and Soviet ones.
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To give an example, imagine this:
There are some AI u-boats endangering your fleet. You move to the fleet, choose an Emily/Catalina/BV138 or whatever, which is spawned in the water beside the supply ship (a new unit in the fleet). You search the u-boats and bomb them, return to your fleet, land near it and "sail" behind your supply ship, where you're rearmed and refueled for the next sortie...
What do you like more, this scenario or some new fighters ? No need to give me an answer, just answer yourself.
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Written by Flitze
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Flitze: I think some players want to do the power thing so they pick the hot planes. I don't no if AH can last on adding planes while keeping the same type of game play in the MA. New planes don't do it for me-I like variation in game play.
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What is the OBJECTIVE in Aces High? In other words, why do people fly it?
The only objective measure of success or failure in Aces High is 'kill or be killed'.
So it might follow that people will want to fly aircraft which have the greatest opportunity to kill other things.
Late war 'superplanes' are generally better armed and are faster than their early war cousins.
Ergo, fly a 'superplane' and you have a better chance to kill things.
Of course, it also helps to have 'laser-ranging' eyeballs for judging those 700yd deflection shots (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Jekyll
Underdog Pilot (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Jekyll
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
Aces High Training Corps
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I think that line of thinking Jekyll is what influenced the behind the "only vocal minority want early-mid a/c" tone.
And you are right, because the enthusiasm of perhaps flying a 202, or A6m vs the hordes of CHogs,Nik's,La's is quickly extinguished by the frustration that comes with seeing your foes run circles around you. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Only a enforced FPS, perked based or whatever would only bring the excellent early war platforms into play. But the flammage incouraged by such talk will make that idea surely null and void.
My personaly opinion is that perks should be greatly levied at fighters (especially the more pure interceptor types)instead of the bombers. Especially if the 262,163 etc..make their appearance.
Tronsky
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Skyrats/files/Tron.jpg)