Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Greebo on June 03, 2009, 04:54:12 AM

Title: Brewster skins
Post by: Greebo on June 03, 2009, 04:54:12 AM
Here are some skin viewer screenshots of the skins I've done for the Brewster. The two Finnish skins were requests from Wmaker and Camo, who supplied much of the information I used to skin the default aircraft. The RAF skin is for myself, as I expect to be flying the Brewster from time to time in the MA and I like to have a British skin on my aircraft. Wmaker has asked me to do BW-393 as well, apart from that I'll wait until other skinners have had a chance to claim schemes before committing to any other skins.


The RAF aircraft was flown by Pilot Officer P. M. Bingham-Wallis from 67 Squadron and fought in Burma in December 1941. It has the half black and half sky underside theater markings typical of RAF Brewsters at that time. I've reskinned the interior for this aircraft as well, giving it English labelling and a green primer rather than silver and black finish.

(http://www.gfg06.dial.pipex.com/screenshots4/67_Sqn_RAF_SC1.jpg)


BW-372 was flown by Lieutenant Lauri Pekuri of 2/LeLv 24. This aircraft was bounced by what was probably a Mig 3 while it was returning to base at low level from a mission over an enemy airbase. The Soviet pilot set the left fuel tank on fire but then overshot. Lt Pekuri was able to shoot down his attacker before ditching his burning plane in a lake. He managed to walk back to his own lines and continued to fly until he was shot down and captured in 1944 having scored 10.5 kills up to that point. There is a fuller description of BW-372's last flight here: http://www.warbirdforum.com/pekuri.htm (http://www.warbirdforum.com/pekuri.htm)

His plane was recently recovered from the lake in remarkably good condition and is now on display at the Aviation Museum of Central Finland, Tikkakoski, Finland. You can see photos of this aircraft here: http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/photoreports/bw-372_photos/ (http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/photoreports/bw-372_photos/)

(http://www.gfg06.dial.pipex.com/screenshots4/BW-372_SC1.jpg)


BW-386 was flown by Flight Sergeant Sakari Ikonen of 4/LeLv 24, who was Camo's godmother's father. Ikonen achieved 5 3/4 kills during the war, shooting down one ARK-3 flying boat and one Mig-3 while flying the BW-386.

(http://www.gfg06.dial.pipex.com/screenshots4/BW-386_SC1.jpg)

Title: Re: Brewster skins
Post by: Wmaker on June 03, 2009, 05:34:42 AM
Thank you so much Greebo! :salute
Title: Re: Brewster skins
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on June 03, 2009, 05:55:20 AM
Awesome many thanks!  :aok
Title: Re: Brewster skins
Post by: SASMOX on June 03, 2009, 06:27:43 AM
Great work Greebo! Thank you :aok
Title: Re: Brewster skins
Post by: Kotari on June 03, 2009, 06:43:57 AM
Awesome work Greebo, thank you very much  :salute
Title: Re: Brewster skins
Post by: Zuum on June 03, 2009, 09:28:59 AM
Astonishing work!!! WTG Greebo!
 :aok :aok :aok
Title: Re: Brewster skins
Post by: Whitey33 on June 03, 2009, 10:05:20 AM
Great work Greebo :salute
Title: Re: Brewster skins
Post by: Bizman on June 03, 2009, 12:19:23 PM
Whenever there's art needed, we know where to find the Artist! Thank you so very much, Greebo!  :salute
Title: Re: Brewster skins
Post by: Larry on June 03, 2009, 01:04:58 PM
ZOMG at the winter skin!! :O :O
Title: Re: Brewster skins
Post by: TonyJoey on June 03, 2009, 01:19:07 PM
 :O Great work as always greebo.
Title: Re: Brewster skins
Post by: Bosco123 on June 03, 2009, 02:38:30 PM
So were gonna start off with those skins?

Sweet! <S> Greebo
Title: Re: Brewster skins
Post by: Bark0 on June 03, 2009, 03:42:49 PM
Great work Greebo, Very cool.


What About an American Skin? is it possible to make one?


 :salute
Title: Re: Brewster skins
Post by: LLv34_Camouflage on June 03, 2009, 05:13:23 PM
Thanks Greebo, great work!   :salute

Camo
Title: Re: Brewster skins
Post by: Greebo on June 03, 2009, 05:33:12 PM
Thanks guys, glad you like them.

I'll send these in after the next version of AH comes out. So hopefully they will be in the next skins update after that. If I send them in now it would depend on whether the next skins update occurs before or after the next game update as to whether they could be used or not, basically it screws up Skuzzy's filing system. Besides HTC sometimes add a low level of detail cockpit image to the default skin that I would need to copy to my other skins and I can only get that by downloading the default skin from the game.

I may well do an American skin but I'll wait for a bit and see what aircraft other skinners want to do first. Its not fair for me to grab all the best schemes before anyone else has had a chance to look at it.
Title: Re: Brewster skins
Post by: lyric1 on June 03, 2009, 07:01:39 PM
All said & done there is not that many country's & operational units that were used in combat.

Australia.
Finland.
Great Britain.
Holland.
United States.

The Australians only had two squadrons that were used in combat that I am aware of & those were painted the same as the British.

Oh and very nice job as well Greebo.
Title: Re: Brewster skins
Post by: Saxman on June 03, 2009, 10:08:09 PM
All said & done there is not that many country's & operational units that were used in combat.

Australia.
Finland.
Great Britain.
Holland.
United States.

The Australians only had two squadrons that were used in combat that I am aware of & those were painted the same as the British.

Oh and very nice job as well Greebo.

Only one squadron for the US if it had to see combat: VMF-221 at Midway. There's really not a lot of options as far as skins for the Brewster go.
Title: Re: Brewster skins
Post by: Greebo on June 04, 2009, 02:39:39 AM
HTC's guidelines in the sticky skins submission post at the top of the forum says nothing about an aircraft having to had seen combat. The relevant passage says: "We will only accept skins that were historically used in World War II".

Now it is not a hard and fast rule that if it was used in WW2 in any capacity it will be accepted. For instance the garishly coloured lead ships used by USAAF bomber groups are not allowed. A skinner should always get HTC's approval before spending time on a project that is "dodgy". OTOH we have skins of fighters that were used by training units already in the game (one Seafire and several N1Ks).

So USN or Australian based RAAF Brewsters would not necessarily be rejected out of hand. Its certainly worth an email to Skuzzy to find out.
Title: Re: Brewster skins
Post by: lyric1 on June 04, 2009, 06:55:44 AM
Well if that is the case I have plenty of Australian based aircraft. :aok
Title: Re: Brewster skins
Post by: Xasthur on June 04, 2009, 07:09:57 AM
Ahhhhh crap.... that means I have to fly the bloody thing.

I hate .50cals.

 :lol
Title: Re: Brewster skins
Post by: Fencer51 on June 04, 2009, 10:52:04 AM
Would not post Pearl Harbor carrier operations in Hawaiian waters and south of them and the strafing of a Japanese submarine count as combat?

If so then the Navy squadron VF-2 used the Buffalo operationally.
Title: Re: Brewster skins
Post by: Larry on June 04, 2009, 01:37:18 PM
IMO any of them in US markings that were on a CV or stationed in a warzone and made at least one sortie on or after 12.7.41 is good enough. Some may disagree with that but as Greebo said nowere does it say the plane had to have seen combat. If it took off looking for trouble then it should be let in game.
Title: Re: Brewster skins
Post by: lyric1 on June 04, 2009, 02:18:40 PM
IMO any of them in US markings that were on a CV or stationed in a warzone and made at least one sortie on or after 12.7.41 is good enough. Some may disagree with that but as Greebo said nowere does it say the plane had to have seen combat. If it took off looking for trouble then it should be let in game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSLlZh9yelk&feature=related
Title: Re: Brewster skins
Post by: lyric1 on June 04, 2009, 02:42:44 PM
All said & done there is not that many country's & operational units that were used in combat.

Australia.
Finland.
Great Britain.
Holland.
United States.

The Australians only had two squadrons that were used in combat that I am aware of & those were painted the same as the British.

Oh and very nice job as well Greebo.
New Zealand as well. http://www.warbirdforum.com/buff.htm
Title: Re: Brewster skins
Post by: RATTFINK on June 07, 2009, 05:43:49 PM
Only one squadron for the US if it had to see combat: VMF-221 at Midway. There's really not a lot of options as far as skins for the Brewster go.


HTC's guidelines in the sticky skins submission post at the top of the forum says nothing about an aircraft having to had seen combat. The relevant passage says: "We will only accept skins that were historically used in World War II".

Now it is not a hard and fast rule that if it was used in WW2 in any capacity it will be accepted. For instance the garishly coloured lead ships used by USAAF bomber groups are not allowed. A skinner should always get HTC's approval before spending time on a project that is "dodgy". OTOH we have skins of fighters that were used by training units already in the game (one Seafire and several N1Ks).

So USN or Australian based RAAF Brewsters would not necessarily be rejected out of hand. Its certainly worth an email to Skuzzy to find out.



(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2a/F2A-1_VF-3_CV-3_Felix_the_Cat.jpg)


A Brewster F2A-1 Buffalo VF-3 squadron.


When Butch O'Hare finished his naval aviation training on May 2, 1940,he was assigned to USS Saratoga's Fighter Squadron Three (VF-3). O'Hare now trained on the Grumman F3F and then graduated to the Brewster F2A Buffalo. Lieutenant John Thach, then executive officer of VF-3, discovered O'Hare's exceptional flying abilities and closely mentored the promising young pilot. Thach, who would later develop the Thach Weave aerial combat tactic, emphasized gunnery in his training. In 1941, more than half of all VF-3 pilots, including O'Hare, earned the "E" for gunnery excellence.
Title: Re: Brewster skins
Post by: Saxman on June 07, 2009, 11:32:57 PM
Ratt,

That's also a pre-war scheme that fell out of use in the US military well before Pearl Harbor. I think they began the shift to blue-gray over light-gray by 1940, and certainly by the time of Pearl Harbor the Navy and Marines had entirely adopted blue-gray over light-gray with the red and white tail stripes.
Title: Re: Brewster skins
Post by: Stoney on June 09, 2009, 11:09:45 AM
The skins obviously look great, but is there some sort of graphical anomoly there around the cockpit (you can see the wing through the cockpit)?  Or is that something that will get sorted out by the time the final model is published in the update?
Title: Re: Brewster skins
Post by: Greebo on June 09, 2009, 11:33:16 AM
The missing cockpit interior is because the cockpit low level of detail stuff hadn't been done when I got the res file I'm currently using. It only reappears when I zoom right in. You can see it has now been sorted on the screenshots on the home page.

BTW Pyro has written back regarding what is an acceptable skin for the Brewster. USN skins are not allowed although VMF-221 skins are OK. RAF, Dutch and RAAF skins are fine as well.
Title: Re: Brewster skins
Post by: Fencer51 on June 09, 2009, 12:47:24 PM
That's too bad.  Brewsters were part of the US Navy at the time of Pearl Harbor, and saw action in the month or so afterwards flying patrols from Carriers and attacking Japanese submarines.

Any hypothetical Pearl Harbor FSO/Scenario would benefit from the US Navy skins.

Funny that they would allow a British P-39 (P-400) skin.  <Shrug>
Title: Re: Brewster skins
Post by: Squire on June 12, 2009, 12:14:38 AM
The RAF did use the Airacobra in action with 601 Sqn.
Title: Re: Brewster skins
Post by: Fencer51 on June 12, 2009, 07:15:19 AM
One sortie, of 4 aircraft, which shot up a barge.  That was the RAF's only operational sortie.  The Buffalo in US Navy service beats that hands down.  Their game, their call of course.
Title: Re: Brewster skins
Post by: Dux on June 12, 2009, 09:35:16 AM
That's too bad.  Brewsters were part of the US Navy at the time of Pearl Harbor, and saw action in the month or so afterwards flying patrols from Carriers and attacking Japanese submarines.

Any hypothetical Pearl Harbor FSO/Scenario would benefit from the US Navy skins.

Funny that they would allow a British P-39 (P-400) skin.  <Shrug>

Fencer, this is one of those instances where the terrain builders can build a replacement default skin into the terrain.  ;)
Title: Re: Brewster skins
Post by: Vuokko on June 18, 2009, 03:57:02 PM
Beautiful skins Greebo, thank you!
Title: Re: Brewster skins
Post by: Krusty on June 18, 2009, 11:56:24 PM
HTC's guidelines in the sticky skins submission post at the top of the forum says nothing about an aircraft having to had seen combat. The relevant passage says: "We will only accept skins that were historically used in World War II".

There is precedent that the skins should have seen combat.

For example, neutral skins are not allowed. Training unit skins on continental USA aren't allowed. Unarmed recon skins are not allowed. Circus-painted formation bombers are not allowed (never went into combat, landed while the rest kept going).

There is a very real precedent for the skin in question having actually been used in combat.
Title: Re: Brewster skins
Post by: Greebo on June 19, 2009, 02:10:30 AM
I believe the issue with unarmed reconnaissance skins is that they are being painted onto armed aircraft, not that they did not see combat. There were plenty of instances of these unarmed aircraft being intercepted or targetted by AA anyway. In my book getting shot at is combat even if you can't shoot back. The issue is more to do with putting skins on a plane that had a completely different use in RL to what it would be used for in the game.

This can also apply to formation ships, which would be used for bombing in the game and training squadron fighters which would be used for dogfighting. That hasn't stopped HTC allowing several training fighters in the game, although it is possible the orange N1Ks saw combat late in the war.

I asked Pyro about a neutral skin recently. He said he wouldn't normally allow one as it would use up a valuable slot. However he might if the skinner could make a very good case for it. So they are not banned as such, just not considered worth a slot in what is a WW2 game.
Title: Re: Brewster skins
Post by: Guppy35 on June 19, 2009, 03:08:11 AM
Just ordered a copy of:

Buffaloes over Singapore : RAF, RAAF, RNZAF and Dutch Brewster Fighters in Action over Malaya and the East Indies 1941-42
Cull, Brian; Sortehaug, Paul; Haselden, Mark

Looks like a worthy resource for potential Brewster info and skins

Title: Re: Brewster skins
Post by: lyric1 on June 19, 2009, 04:00:22 AM
Just ordered a copy of:

Buffaloes over Singapore : RAF, RAAF, RNZAF and Dutch Brewster Fighters in Action over Malaya and the East Indies 1941-42
Cull, Brian; Sortehaug, Paul; Haselden, Mark

Looks like a worthy resource for potential Brewster info and skins


Yep it's a good one as far as reading very few pictures most are on the net.
Title: Re: Brewster skins
Post by: AWwrgwy on June 19, 2009, 12:47:51 PM
I believe the issue with unarmed reconnaissance skins is that they are being painted onto armed aircraft, not that they did not see combat. There were plenty of instances of these unarmed aircraft being intercepted or targetted by AA anyway. In my book getting shot at is combat even if you can't shoot back. The issue is more to do with putting skins on a plane that had a completely different use in RL to what it would be used for in the game.

This can also apply to formation ships, which would be used for bombing in the game and training squadron fighters which would be used for dogfighting. That hasn't stopped HTC allowing several training fighters in the game, although it is possible the orange N1Ks saw combat late in the war.

I asked Pyro about a neutral skin recently. He said he wouldn't normally allow one as it would use up a valuable slot. However he might if the skinner could make a very good case for it. So they are not banned as such, just not considered worth a slot in what is a WW2 game.

Exactly.  Formation ships didn't carry bombs.  They saw combat before they were formations ships but not as represented in their gaudy paint jobs as formation ships.  Unarmed reccon aircraft didn't carry guns.  And, possibly the training aircraft in question did see combat.  The enemy flying overhead and what not.

Neutral?  Saw combat probably before they were painted as such.  After, intercept and escort perhaps but "combat sorties" I don't know.  I suppose said "intercept and escort" could be stretched to be considered combat but it would be like considering modern day intercept of Soviet Bear recon flights as being combat.

This is the argument I was trying to make with your Ju88 recon skin.  Couldn't carry bombs so it shouldn't be on something that could carry bombs.

wrongway

Title: Re: Brewster skins
Post by: Greebo on June 19, 2009, 04:43:22 PM
Actually I did some more research on the Ju 88D. The first versions were the D-0 and D-2, these had their cameras mounted in the bomb bay and only retained the inner pylons for drop tanks. They were never used for bombing.

However the version I skinned was a Ju 88D-1. This had its cameras mounted in the rear fuselage allowing the bomb bay to be used for bombs. It also retained its pylons and was able to carry the complete range of bombs the Ju 88A-4 could. D-1s and later versions were occasionally pressed into service as bombers.
Title: Re: Brewster skins
Post by: StokesAk on June 19, 2009, 06:22:07 PM
They look sweet i know which one i will be taking up.  :rock
Title: Re: Brewster skins
Post by: thrila on June 19, 2009, 08:16:34 PM
One sortie, of 4 aircraft, which shot up a barge.  That was the RAF's only operational sortie. 

Do you mean specifically the 239 version or all brewster's in RAF service?  I know for certain the RAF brewsters saw a lot of action at malaya.
Title: Re: Brewster skins
Post by: AWwrgwy on June 19, 2009, 08:37:12 PM
Do you mean specifically the 239 version or all brewster's in RAF service?  I know for certain the RAF brewsters saw a lot of action at malaya.

Clarification:

Funny that they would allow a British P-39 (P-400) skin.  <Shrug>
One sortie, of 4 aircraft, which shot up a barge.  That was the RAF's only operational sortie.  The Buffalo in US Navy service beats that hands down.  Their game, their call of course.

In order.

 :D


wrongway
Title: Re: Brewster skins
Post by: thrila on June 19, 2009, 08:39:33 PM
doh....
Title: Re: Brewster skins
Post by: Greebo on June 28, 2009, 04:40:48 AM
This is the aircraft of Captain William C Humbert of VMF-221 based at Midway in June 1942. This squadron scrambled 20 F2A-3s and five F4F-3s in two groups to defend Midway against an incoming carrier air strike of 107 aircraft, including 36 Zeroes. The USMC fighters were bounced by Zeroes as they attacked the Japanese bombers and lost 14 aircraft out of 25. The Japanese lost nine aircraft on the raid, although some of these were downed by AA fire over Midway. Captain Humbert survived the mission and claimed a Zero and a Kate destroyed.

(http://www.gfg06.dial.pipex.com/screenshots1/VMF-221_SC1.jpg)
Title: Re: Brewster skins
Post by: Banshee7 on June 28, 2009, 02:05:04 PM
I might have to reform my old AH squad that I COed.  The VMF-221 Fighting Falcons; home of the Marines' first ace .  :)
Title: Re: Brewster skins
Post by: TonyJoey on June 28, 2009, 03:54:19 PM
This is the aircraft of Captain William C Humbert of VMF-221 based at Midway in June 1942. This squadron scrambled 20 F2A-3s and five F4F-3s in two groups to defend Midway against an incoming carrier air strike of 107 aircraft, including 36 Zeroes. The USMC fighters were bounced by Zeroes as they attacked the Japanese bombers and lost 14 aircraft out of 25. The Japanese lost nine aircraft on the raid, although some of these were downed by AA fire over Midway. Captain Humbert survived the mission and claimed a Zero and a Kate destroyed.

(http://www.gfg06.dial.pipex.com/screenshots1/VMF-221_SC1.jpg)

 :O
Title: Re: Brewster skins
Post by: lyric1 on June 29, 2009, 08:33:31 AM
Very cool. You should consider doing the FAA Buffalo as well? May as well have two naval buffaloes in the game.
Title: Re: Brewster skins
Post by: Greebo on June 29, 2009, 05:31:34 PM
I've got some RL stuff to do soon that will be taking up a lot of my free time for a few weeks. So for now I'm going to do the paperwork on my existing new shape skins (sources, info.txt files etc.) to get them ready for submission when the new version comes out. After that I may well do a FAA Brewster if someone else hasn't already claimed it.