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General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: The Grinch on June 09, 2009, 10:21:50 AM

Title: The Tallboy and Grandslam bomb
Post by: The Grinch on June 09, 2009, 10:21:50 AM
The Tallboy Bomb
     - A Lancaster Delivered Earthquake :devil

In the spring of 1942 the Nazis were building reinforced concrete submarine bases that were bomb-proof against any existing weapons. At this time the largest penetrating bomb available to Bomber Command weighed a mere 1000 pounds.

As early as the fall of 1940, the brilliant Vickers Armstrong engineer and designer of the Wellington Bomber, Barnes Wallis, had demonstrated in his research how extra-large, penetrating bombs could create an earthquake like pressure wave that would destroy nearby structures by displacing their foundations. Wallis was envisioning a weapon weighing 20,000 pounds that would be dropped from an altitude of 40,000 feet, and reach the speed of sound. Known as the "Tallboy," there was no aircraft in the foreseeable future that could carry it so the design was put on hold.

Following the success of Wallis's "Bouncing Bomb" in the Dambusters Raid, his Tallboy design was reviewed. There was still no aircraft capable of carrying the original design to 40,000 feet but the Lancaster was now operational and had proven itself able to carry a 12,000 pound weapon. Wallis revised his design, including offsetting the tailfins by five degrees. This improved the weapons stability significantly. Released from the optimum height of 18,000 feet the bomb took 37 seconds to reach the ground, impacting with a speed of 750 miles per hour. During the night of June 8, 1944 the first Tallboy was dropped, causing extensive damage to the Saumur Railway Tunnel, preventing enemy reinforcements including tank units from reaching the beaches of Normandy.
 
 :devilDuring March, 1945 a larger version of the weapon, the 22,000 pound "Grand Slam" became operational. With a length of 25 feet, 5 inches and a diameter of 46 inches, this bomb required the complete removal of the Lancaster's bomb bay doors. A total of 41 Grand Slams were dropped during the closing days of the war. :devil

Title: Re: The Tallboy and Grandslam bomb
Post by: LLogann on June 09, 2009, 10:29:26 AM
Good first post.....

Now get yourself ready!

 :rofl
Title: Re: The Tallboy and Grandslam bomb
Post by: moot on June 09, 2009, 10:32:22 AM
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,7933.msg104816.html#msg104816
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,1910.msg24534.html#msg24534
Title: Re: The Tallboy and Grandslam bomb
Post by: Bruv119 on June 09, 2009, 10:33:03 AM
I say  +1   perk it as much as you like but wouldn't a 1 salvo town drop be AWESOME!  will be cool to see the explosion including defending GV's   :t.

1000 bomber perks per bomb!  no formations.
Title: Re: The Tallboy and Grandslam bomb
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 09, 2009, 12:28:13 PM
Currently, AH does not support ordnance larger than 4,000lbs.  No Tallboy, no Grand Slam.


ack-ack

Title: Re: The Tallboy and Grandslam bomb
Post by: hyster on June 09, 2009, 01:01:36 PM
was thinking about this the other day and i remembered a program that said the bomb had to be dropped at 30k to reach a speed high enough to penetrate the ground deep enough to have the earthquack effect. i think bullets (not cannons) lose effectiveness at longer ranges so the coding is all ready in place.

my thought was that if dropped below 30k in game then the bomb would only be as effective as a 4,000lb bomb and as bruv said no formations.
30k would mean next to imposable to hit a cv and i "think" towns would be hard to see as well (i never been up to 30k before) and maybe add a little wind above 25k.

also i think a bomb view would be cool after you drop so you can view the bomb d300 behind it as it falls to the target.
Title: Re: The Tallboy and Grandslam bomb
Post by: Furball on June 09, 2009, 01:17:30 PM
An 8k or 12k high capacity 'cookie' would be better in AH i think.

http://www.wwiiequipment.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=109:12000lb-high-capacity-bomb&catid=43:bombs&Itemid=60
Title: Re: The Tallboy and Grandslam bomb
Post by: Kev367th on June 09, 2009, 03:08:10 PM
was thinking about this the other day and i remembered a program that said the bomb had to be dropped at 30k to reach a speed high enough to penetrate the ground deep enough to have the earthquack effect.

Both the Tallboy and Grandslam were designed for 30k drops.
In reality the Lanc struggled to get up to 25k to drop them, still did the job though!
Title: Re: The Tallboy and Grandslam bomb
Post by: Nemisis on June 09, 2009, 05:40:41 PM
No uber, earthquake causing, town destroying bombs. I mean it could take out a bridge that had survived WAY, WAY, WAY, way more than it's fair share of bombs, so it could probably destroy a town in a single drop. If you want a bomb like that then you would have to have double the icon range for the bomber carrying it so the fighters would have a better chance to shoot it down....well maby not. But still...NO uber bombs.
Title: Re: The Tallboy and Grandslam bomb
Post by: MachFly on June 09, 2009, 06:26:36 PM
No uber, earthquake causing, town destroying bombs. I mean it could take out a bridge that had survived WAY, WAY, WAY, way more than it's fair share of bombs, so it could probably destroy a town in a single drop. If you want a bomb like that then you would have to have double the icon range for the bomber carrying it so the fighters would have a better chance to shoot it down....well maby not. But still...NO uber bombs.


or just perk it
Title: Re: The Tallboy and Grandslam bomb
Post by: 1Boner on June 09, 2009, 06:37:47 PM
Both the Tallboy and Grandslam were designed for 30k drops.
In reality the Lanc struggled to get up to 25k to drop them, still did the job though!


The pilots would die of old age before they reached 25k. :salute
Title: Re: The Tallboy and Grandslam bomb
Post by: Nemisis on June 09, 2009, 07:30:05 PM
Die of old age and the planes would run out of gas. Or the explosives would decay or become old and unsable if that can even happen.
Title: Re: The Tallboy and Grandslam bomb
Post by: Overlord925 on June 09, 2009, 09:25:29 PM
destruction by earthquake + 4000lbs bomb cap = drop Rosie O'Donnel from a lanc.
Title: Re: The Tallboy and Grandslam bomb
Post by: Nemisis on June 09, 2009, 10:54:24 PM
HOLY CRAP!!! I thought we were talking about a bomb not a WMD!!! OMG, you drop her out of a plane from 15K your gona take out a whole continent, not just a base.
Title: Re: The Tallboy and Grandslam bomb
Post by: frank3 on June 10, 2009, 04:13:47 AM
Did some Lancaster flying today, with 14k bombs + 50% fuel. After about half an hour it reached 25k, at which it could only climb about 200ft/min. And it required almost full power to fly even level at those altitudes. Now imagine having 8k MORE bombload! I doubt you'd even reach 25k...
Title: Re: The Tallboy and Grandslam bomb
Post by: Kev367th on June 10, 2009, 06:51:52 AM
The sheer size is what was amazing -

Tallboy - 21ft long, 3ft 8in diameter @ 12000lbs
Grandslam - 26ft 6in ft long @ 22000lbs

Tallboys were dropped from as low as 20k, and created -
80ft deep, 100ft across crater and could penetrate 16ft concrete.

Grandslams
20ft+ of concrete

In the raid on the submarine pens near Bremen, one Grandslam penetrated 23ft of reinforced concrete.

(http://www.303rdbg.com/bombs1.jpg)

1) Grandslam, 2) Tallboy, 5) Std 1000lb bomb
Title: Re: The Tallboy and Grandslam bomb
Post by: SectorNine50 on June 10, 2009, 07:19:50 AM
You know, the altitude required for this bomb to work correctly (along with a perk) might be enough to make adding the Tallboy fair.  I mean if your really going to organize a mission around a bomber that is going to take 30 minutes to just get to altitude, then you must just really want to use the Tallboy.

Personally, I think it might end up being just a way to close fields...  Plus part of the fun of taking a base is the teamwork required to drop the town.

Would it be cool to have?  Absolutley!  Is it something we need?  No not at all, and may end up effecting the gameplay negatively.
Title: Re: The Tallboy and Grandslam bomb
Post by: Castle51 on June 10, 2009, 09:04:31 AM
destruction by earthquake + 4000lbs bomb cap = drop Rosie O'Donnel from a lanc.

Just open up the door on the C-47 and toss a bag of Oreo cookies out, she'll follow em' all the way down.
Title: Re: The Tallboy and Grandslam bomb
Post by: frank3 on June 10, 2009, 09:05:24 AM
(http://www.303rdbg.com/bombs1.jpg)

1) Grandslam, 2) Tallboy, 5) Std 1000lb bomb

What's the #3 bomb in your picture? 4000lbs?
Title: Re: The Tallboy and Grandslam bomb
Post by: hyster on June 10, 2009, 10:54:03 AM
the way i was thinking was that it would take so long to get to 30k and the fact you would hardly be able to see the town let alone ftr hanger (ftr hanger is small enough at 20k) only the die hards bomber pilots or those totaly bored would use it.

Title: Re: The Tallboy and Grandslam bomb
Post by: 1pLUs44 on June 10, 2009, 11:36:06 AM
destruction by earthquake + 4000lbs bomb cap = drop Rosie O'Donnel from a lanc.
:rofl :rofl
Title: Re: The Tallboy and Grandslam bomb
Post by: frank3 on June 11, 2009, 01:44:23 AM
the way i was thinking was that it would take so long to get to 30k and the fact you would hardly be able to see the town let alone ftr hanger (ftr hanger is small enough at 20k) only the die hards bomber pilots or those totaly bored would use it.

Actually, if your target is not covered in clouds, it's perfectly visible from 30k. I'll post a picture of the bomb-sight when I have the time (to climb, haha...).
Title: Re: The Tallboy and Grandslam bomb
Post by: Furball on June 21, 2009, 07:02:25 PM
What's the #3 bomb in your picture? 4000lbs?

It looks like it could be a US 4k GP bomb.

This is a cool photo - different bombs used by the British.  It looks like he is resting on a 8k bomb, with the 12k HC bomb to the left, 12k Tallboy to the right and Grand Slam in the background.

(http://www.stelzriede.com/ms/photos/misc10.jpg)
Title: Re: The Tallboy and Grandslam bomb
Post by: Karnak on June 21, 2009, 07:10:45 PM
Did some Lancaster flying today, with 14k bombs + 50% fuel. After about half an hour it reached 25k, at which it could only climb about 200ft/min. And it required almost full power to fly even level at those altitudes. Now imagine having 8k MORE bombload! I doubt you'd even reach 25k...
You also had the weight of the nose and top turrets, which Lancs modified to carry the 22,000lb bomb did not.   I also seem to recall the normal drop altitude was 18,000ft, not 25,000ft.
Title: Re: The Tallboy and Grandslam bomb
Post by: TonyJoey on June 21, 2009, 09:02:45 PM
 :rofl @ the rosie o donnel comment.
Title: Re: The Tallboy and Grandslam bomb
Post by: AWwrgwy on June 21, 2009, 11:26:43 PM
Quote
The weight of the Tallboy (approximately 12,000 lb) and the high altitude required of the bombing aircraft meant that the Lancaster bombers used had to be specially adapted. Armour plating and even defensive armament were removed to reduce weight and the bomb-bay doors had to be adapted.

Modified in order to carry?


Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz,


wrongway
Title: Re: The Tallboy and Grandslam bomb
Post by: Lusche on June 21, 2009, 11:33:58 PM
This is a cool photo - different bombs used by the British. 

And these are a few Luftwaffe bombs:

(http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/4472/bomben.jpg)

But please note that the SC2500 wasn't used operationally.
Title: Re: The Tallboy and Grandslam bomb
Post by: frank3 on June 22, 2009, 05:21:47 AM
Haha, the 1800kg is actually called Satan?  :devil

By the way, does anyone know how much weight was saved by removing the defensive armament + armor plating on the Lancaster?
Title: Re: The Tallboy and Grandslam bomb
Post by: Tilt on June 22, 2009, 10:48:30 AM
You also had the weight of the nose and top turrets, which Lancs modified to carry the 22,000lb bomb did not.   I also seem to recall the normal drop altitude was 18,000ft, not 25,000ft.

My recollection also although it was 18,000ft above target............... basically Barnes wallis decided that 18,000ft was required to reach required impact velocity agin 40ft thick re enforced concrete............... (submarine pens etc)

Although against the Tirpitz the Tallboys were basically "lobbed" from a much lower altitude but then they were not using the bomb as an "earthquake" device.

I think there would be a role for a Tallboy in AH particularly if the damage model was made to tail off significantly if the dropp was less than 18K.


Grandslam like the nuke is OTT iMO
Title: Re: The Tallboy and Grandslam bomb
Post by: Furball on June 22, 2009, 12:15:21 PM
Modified in order to carry?


Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz,


wrongway

On the Tirpitz raid they reduced weight because they had additional fuel tanks in order to get to Russia after the bombing - the Tirpitz was too far out for a round trip.  The Lanc was regularly carrying loads in excess of 12,000lb, and as far as i know the tallboy bomb could be carried by any lanc with the bulged bomb bay doors.

http://books.google.com/books?id=wXsjZbgipGsC&pg=PA53&lpg=PA53&dq=12,000lb+HC+bomb&source=bl&ots=w6STpl5BtB&sig=_BnsQHdgXNyGlrTabScwTSZutVs&hl=en&ei=U7k_SpyAIIy8jAfZkoX-Dw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6

Good article here about 617 and the big RAF bombs if the link works.
Title: Re: The Tallboy and Grandslam bomb
Post by: BaldEagl on June 22, 2009, 12:37:15 PM
I'd like to see them in the modified B1 or B2 Lanc (forget which it was) as a HUGE perk option.  500-1000 perks and no formation probably isn't far off what it would need to be.

This is essentially what the modification looked like to carry the Grand Slam:

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2289/2048699946_11de8f451d.jpg?v=0)
Title: Re: The Tallboy and Grandslam bomb
Post by: waystin2 on June 22, 2009, 01:02:30 PM
I'd like to see them in the modified B1 or B2 Lanc (forget which it was) as a HUGE perk option.  500-1000 perks and no formation probably isn't far off what it would need to be.

This is essentially what the modification looked like to carry the Grand Slam:

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2289/2048699946_11de8f451d.jpg?v=0)

That is not an airplane.  It's a bomb with wings!
Title: Re: The Tallboy and Grandslam bomb
Post by: RipChord929 on June 22, 2009, 02:30:02 PM
I like it too.. Single plane only... 
Use it something like this?   Normal Buff raid comes in 10k or so, occupying the defenders... While a few of the "special lanks" sneak in fast at 20K, and EARTHQUAKE the whole field... Flattening mass hngrs w each blast... Blowin up planes taking off in midair... Rackin up 10 flaks sitting on the field... DED! DED! DED!

It better cost MASS perks!!!

Single lanks would be the most hunted targets in the game....

But, If ya used them sneaky, they'd be a nasty suckerpunch...
You'd HEAR the hearts of steadfast defenders breaking... With each blast...

RC
Title: Re: The Tallboy and Grandslam bomb
Post by: Tilt on June 22, 2009, 02:55:49 PM
617 squadron was not the only bomber squadron to carry Tallboys.......

IX squadron also carried them and indeed has its own version of the Tirpitz story. Suffice to say IX squadron was somewhat disgruntled withthe media image given to the glory boys of 617.

http://www.association.9sqn.co.uk/index.php

Title: Re: The Tallboy and Grandslam bomb
Post by: The Grinch on June 23, 2009, 01:16:11 PM
I like it too.. Single plane only... 
Use it something like this?   Normal Buff raid comes in 10k or so, occupying the defenders... While a few of the "special lanks" sneak in fast at 20K, and EARTHQUAKE the whole field... Flattening mass hngrs w each blast... Blowin up planes taking off in midair... Rackin up 10 flaks sitting on the field... DED! DED! DED!

It better cost MASS perks!!!

Single lanks would be the most hunted targets in the game....

But, If ya used them sneaky, they'd be a nasty suckerpunch...
You'd HEAR the hearts of steadfast defenders breaking... With each blast...

RC
:x yes yes yes :x