Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: swareiam on June 12, 2009, 03:39:53 PM

Title: How about this?
Post by: swareiam on June 12, 2009, 03:39:53 PM: (http://adjunct.diodon349.com/US_Subs/DBF_photos/guppy_book_WWII_Fleet_Type_pg_8.jpg)

Free roaming Fleet Diesel Submarines that do the following;

1. Stay fully surfaced while cruising to include a visible wake.
2. Activate the ships 8" deck gun between 1800 - 2500 yards of an enemy fleet. (The deck gun can only be operated by a player.)
3. It will become partially submerged within 1000 -1800 yards of an enemy fleet. (Only the conning tower would show.)
4. It will be subsurface within 1000 yards of the enemy fleet.
5. It will fire one torpedo within each 15 minutes of contact from within 3000 yards.
6. The shots will be randomly fired and not Match barrings, set and shoot on a pinpointed target.
7. Subs would have randomly programmed patrol routes and not allowed to operate as packs or stay on station.

In reaction to this new menus at sea, Fleet destroyers would be outfitted with depth charges station on the after decks operated by a player. Amidships torpedoes tubes could be added as well.

The following aircraft would have the weapons displays augmented with depth charges;

B-25
B-24
TBM
FM2
JU88
JU87
Boston

Well, what do you think?
Title: Re: How about this?
Post by: sandwich on June 13, 2009, 09:02:31 PM: its pretty good

i dont really like the idea though because my pc is crap and i have to set the graphics so low the water is opaque concrete
i like the concept

i would more like the old japanese carrier subs

(http://<a href="http://photobucket.com/images/carrier%20submarine" target="_blank"><img src="http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg142/ElectricBadger/sentoku.jpg" border="0" alt="Sentoku aircraft carrier submarine Pictures, Images and Photos"/></a>)
Title: Re: How about this?
Post by: BnZs on June 13, 2009, 10:38:37 PM: Quote from: swareiam on June 12, 2009, 03:39:53 PM
(http://adjunct.diodon349.com/US_Subs/DBF_photos/guppy_book_WWII_Fleet_Type_pg_8.jpg)

Free roaming Fleet Diesel Submarines that do the following;

1. Stay fully surfaced while cruising to include a visible wake.
2. Activate the ships 8" deck gun between 1800 - 2500 yards of an enemy fleet. (The deck gun can only be operated by a player.)
3. It will become partially submerged within 1000 -1800 yards of an enemy fleet. (Only the conning tower would show.)
4. It will be subsurface within 1000 yards of the enemy fleet.
5. It will fire one torpedo within each 15 minutes of contact from within 3000 yards.
6. The shots will be randomly fired and not Match barrings, set and shoot on a pinpointed target.
7. Subs would have randomly programmed patrol routes and not allowed to operate as packs or stay on station.
8. During all submarine operations, the Iron Maiden song "Run Silent, Run Deep" will be piped through the players headphones as theme music.

There ya go!
Title: Re: How about this?
Post by: Golfer on June 14, 2009, 08:02:09 AM: 1000-1800 yards is really really really really really (did I mentione really?) close to a fleet for a submarine on the surface cruising along at max speed.
Title: Re: How about this?
Post by: Sakai on June 15, 2009, 12:21:54 PM: Manning the deck gun though would ask for concentrated fire from the fleet which would be suicidal.
Title: Re: How about this?
Post by: AKP on June 15, 2009, 01:13:53 PM: yea, but if used properly... a single sub could do some serious damage on a coastal town or base long before anyone finds it. (HorrwyWooood!!!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GL3X_txAkgI ...man that just makes me laugh everytime I see it.

Having said that... unless you give the sub the ability to submerge when under attack at any time, fighters and patrol bombers are going to make short work of it. Think of it as a slower, lighter armed (as far as AA goes) less maneuverable PT boat. I know that I would spend hours looking for them just so I could pop them and fly home.

And you would have to give DD's depth charges too... which wouldnt work the way fleet ops are currently set up. There is no way a DD would just stand off and fire its 5" at a periscope 1000 yards out. It would break formation, steam over and roll charges and HH's at it until its just a messy grease spot on the surface.

Its a good idea, and I wouldnt mind seeing subs in the game... but I just dont know how they are going to make them work with the way fleet ops are currently set up... that, and I hear they are offing puppies now everytime someone asks for a sub in the game (ran out of kittens apparently)

Oh... and if we are giving depth charges out to bombers... the B25 needs the torpedo that the Navy version (PBJ) carried long before that ever happens.
Title: Re: How about this?
Post by: Karnak on June 15, 2009, 01:42:23 PM: Deck guns were, if I recall correctly, 3 inches. Most certainly not 8 inches.
Title: Re: How about this?
Post by: vonKrimm on June 15, 2009, 06:18:45 PM: Quote from: Golfer on June 14, 2009, 08:02:09 AM
1000-1800 yards is really really really really really (did I mentione really?) close to a fleet for a submarine on the surface cruising along at max speed.

Unless it is night, a moon-less night, with a sea state of 3 or higher, and a dead-drunk watch on every ship in the fleet and approaching 90 degrees abeam.
Title: Re: How about this?
Post by: vonKrimm on June 15, 2009, 08:47:22 PM: Quote from: Karnak on June 15, 2009, 01:42:23 PM
Deck guns were, if I recall correctly, 3 inches. Most certainly not 8 inches.

& 4" & 5" & 6"x2, but the last only appeared on 2 EW subs that were not directly employed in sinking merchant shipping
Title: Re: How about this?
Post by: hitech on June 15, 2009, 10:01:17 PM: 5" were standard on South Dakota class which I believe is what was in that picture.

My father is a plank owner of this boat.

http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/0833704.jpg

HiTech
Title: Re: How about this?
Post by: Krusty on June 15, 2009, 10:04:49 PM: I was watching one of those shows on Discovery Channel where they go around wreck diving with ROVs. Mostly they look for salvagable stuff ($$$) but then take side-trips to visit WW2 subs and whatnot. Somebody made the comment that most German U-boats removed the deck guns, because they weren't used and slowed the ship down while submerged. They saw the deck plating where it was mounted, but it was gone. Helped ID the sub, at least in this TV show's case.
Title: Re: How about this?
Post by: frank3 on June 16, 2009, 05:06:51 AM: Especially later in the war, the deck-guns proved to be somewhat useless. Since the majority of the cargo-vessels would carry defensive armament, it would be nigh-suicidal to get into a gunfight with one.
And I believe the submarines were terribly unstable gunplatforms.
Title: Re: How about this?
Post by: Shark21 on June 16, 2009, 08:13:48 AM: How about allowing players to submerge anytime, but have the battery charge modeled so that with x-minutes of submerged propulsion, the sub would surface to re-charge the batts.
The idea of controlling the dive planes and buoyancy tanks sounds cool. "10 degree down bubble number 1"

Also, I like the idea of being able to fire my own torpedos on bearings I choose.

And, maybe at a certain depth (say surface to 40ft), you could see a kind of a shadow from the air to indicate a u-boot was down there. Deeper, no indication.

And while we're at it, how about coastal patrol planes and boats that can pick up downed aviators, hence awarding the rescuers points and preserving the points for the downed flyer. Or allow the sub to do that!
Title: Re: How about this?
Post by: frank3 on June 16, 2009, 08:27:04 AM: Quote from: Shark21 on June 16, 2009, 08:13:48 AM
How about allowing players to submerge anytime, but have the battery charge modeled so that with x-minutes of submerged propulsion, the sub would surface to re-charge the batts.

Also, I like the idea of being able to fire my own torpedos on bearings I choose.

And, maybe at a certain depth (say surface to 40ft), you could see a kind of a shadow from the air to indicate a u-boot was down there. Deeper, no indication.

And while we're at it, how about coastal patrol planes and boats that can pick up downed aviators, hence awarding the rescuers points and preserving the points for the downed flyer.

The BBS is way ahead of you, since many years ago :)
These ideas were asked for about as much as the B-29, and elaborated in as many threads.
Title: Re: How about this?
Post by: Shark21 on June 16, 2009, 08:29:51 AM: And your point is Frank3?
Title: Re: How about this?
Post by: frank3 on June 16, 2009, 08:33:03 AM: Quote from: Shark21 on June 16, 2009, 08:29:51 AM
And your point is Frank3?

No point, and no pun intended :aok
There are already too many people undermining the wishes, don't want to be one of them!
Title: Re: How about this?
Post by: swareiam on June 16, 2009, 11:26:30 AM: Quote from: Karnak on June 15, 2009, 01:42:23 PM
Deck guns were, if I recall correctly, 3 inches. Most certainly not 8 inches.

Hey Karnak,

No 8" deck guns huh??? Well, how about this one...

(http://www.strangecosmos.com/images/content/121678.jpg)

Now, there is a vicious leviathan for yah!!! :rofl :aok
Title: Re: How about this?
Post by: vonKrimm on June 16, 2009, 11:36:24 AM: Quote from: swareiam on June 16, 2009, 11:26:30 AM
Hey Karnak,

No 8" deck guns huh??? Well, how about this one...

(http://www.strangecosmos.com/images/content/121678.jpg)

Now, there is a vicious leviathan for yah!!! :rofl :aok

Surcouf, NN3 (FRA): Sunk en route to Tahiti by an a American freighter February 1942.
Title: Re: How about this?
Post by: swareiam on June 16, 2009, 11:44:36 AM: Quote from: hitech on June 15, 2009, 10:01:17 PM
5" were standard on South Dakota class which I believe is what was in that picture.

My father is a plank owner of this boat.

http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/0833704.jpg

HiTech

HiTech,

Thanks for chiming in on this one. I know that this would take a bit of development time. But, it really would add another element of play and history to the game.
It would also open the door for new aircraft types that wouldn't become instant hanger queens without a mission, i.e. PBY-5 Catalina, FW-200 Condor, and
the Short Sunderland.

Hey, for all we know you already have it ready and you were going to surprise us... :lol

Here is another addition to the idea list, from the deck of the DD only. Players would hear the sound of the SONAR ping as the proximity of the sub changes in
relationship to the fleet. There would be no visual map indication of the subs location. :cool:

This is getting more fun every minute. :)

Cheers...

:aok
Title: Re: How about this?
Post by: swareiam on June 16, 2009, 11:49:04 AM: Quote from: Shark21 on June 16, 2009, 08:13:48 AM
How about allowing players to submerge anytime, but have the battery charge modeled so that with x-minutes of submerged propulsion, the sub would surface to re-charge the batts.
The idea of controlling the dive planes and buoyancy tanks sounds cool. "10 degree down bubble number 1"

Also, I like the idea of being able to fire my own torpedos on bearings I choose.

And, maybe at a certain depth (say surface to 40ft), you could see a kind of a shadow from the air to indicate a u-boot was down there. Deeper, no indication.

And while we're at it, how about coastal patrol planes and boats that can pick up downed aviators, hence awarding the rescuers points and preserving the points for the downed flyer. Or allow the sub to do that!

Shark,

Now, that's the spirit... I like the way you think. :aok
Title: Re: How about this?
Post by: swareiam on June 16, 2009, 11:51:59 AM: Quote from: vonKrimm on June 16, 2009, 11:36:24 AM
Surcouf, NN3 (FRA): Sunk en route to Tahiti by an a American freighter February 1942.

Yep, It's a good thing Aces High came along some years later so they could re-up... :rofl

:D
Title: Re: How about this?
Post by: swareiam on June 16, 2009, 12:00:06 PM: Quote from: Shark21 on June 16, 2009, 08:13:48 AM
How about allowing players to submerge anytime, but have the battery charge modeled so that with x-minutes of submerged propulsion, the sub would surface to re-charge the batts.
The idea of controlling the dive planes and buoyancy tanks sounds cool. "10 degree down bubble number 1"

Also, I like the idea of being able to fire my own torpedos on bearings I choose.

And, maybe at a certain depth (say surface to 40ft), you could see a kind of a shadow from the air to indicate a u-boot was down there. Deeper, no indication.

And while we're at it, how about coastal patrol planes and boats that can pick up downed aviators, hence awarding the rescuers points and preserving the points for the downed flyer. Or allow the sub to do that!

Or even better yet... This is not only a way to pick up points as in a base resupply. Let's say for x number of rescues the ENY value comes down for your side. Something like that.
Title: Re: How about this?
Post by: Lye-El on June 17, 2009, 08:46:48 PM: Quote from: vonKrimm on June 16, 2009, 11:36:24 AM
Surcouf, NN3 (FRA): Sunk en route to Tahiti by an a American freighter February 1942.

I think we need the freighter rather than the sub.
Title: Re: How about this?
Post by: Strip on June 18, 2009, 01:10:25 AM: Dont see the big fuss about battery power and limiting duration submerged. Even in WW2 most battery power was measured in hours at normal submerged manuevering speed. The real issue is setting up your attack and preparing to fire the torpedoes. Anyone whos played Silent Hunter (dedicated submarine game) can attest to this. The fleet sails fast enough to outrun (submerged or surfaced) every submarine built at the time. Underwater the best most subs could manage was 10 knots and generated a ton of noise doing so. Depending on how you setup the detection system you would add alot of extras to make it seem worth while. Hydrophones, radar (surface), magnetic detectors, sonar and good ole fashioned eyeballs were all used. They used many different torpedoes and had several different ways to explode the warheads. Dont forget most of the submarines targets were merchant shipping and not warships.
Title: Re: How about this?
Post by: frank3 on June 18, 2009, 04:52:49 AM: Even on the surface, the typical U-Boat would only do around 18 knots tops. I can already hear the CV saying 'eat my wake'
Title: Re: How about this?
Post by: swareiam on June 18, 2009, 12:38:34 PM: Quote from: frank3 on June 18, 2009, 04:52:49 AM
Even on the surface, the typical U-Boat would only do around 18 knots tops. I can already hear the CV saying 'eat my wake'

I hadn't really planned for the Subs to be steerable and free reigning. What do you guys think about that? There would definitely need to be rules governing it use around port facilities. Camped in the right spot would suck for the other side. But again that would be history...
Title: Re: How about this?
Post by: Karnak on June 18, 2009, 01:48:33 PM: How about the Japanese subs that carried a couple of aircraft?
Title: Re: How about this?
Post by: Nemisis on June 18, 2009, 04:40:45 PM: Quote from: swareiam on June 12, 2009, 03:39:53 PM
.
5. It will fire one torpedo within each 15 minutes of contact from within 3000 yards.
6. The shots will be randomly fired and not Match barrings, set and shoot on a pinpointed target.
7. Subs would have randomly programmed patrol routes and not allowed to operate as packs or stay on station.

Well, what do you think?

First off I think you should at least have it so you can control it like a fleet. It would get a little annoying if it just went in random paterns, and you can't even control where it goes.
Second, you should be able to control when it fires and controll it's heading within a range of like 45 degrees so you can better aim the torp