Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: vettim89 on June 12, 2009, 05:27:59 PM
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Just discovered AH. With years in the seat in a variety of combat flight sims, this game has a lot of appeal to me. Pulled out my old Logitek joystick and discovered my new computer lacks a serial port. Go figure. Like I said it was an old joystick
So as I need to go buy a new joystick, I was wondering if forum members had any advice. First I tend to get pretty hard core about such things so I don't mind spending a little more now. I would rather buy a good stick now rather than buy a passable one then find myself going out and buying a good one after a month in game.
I am looking at the Logitek ones of course. The wireless one seems nice but caught some noise about lag being an issue. That said the Saitek stuff looks uber nce. Any opinions (like I know you don't have any)? BTW, probably not ready to go the rudder peddle route yet as my puter is in the dining room.
Thanks in advance
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ch all the way worth the money good luck :salute
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Just discovered AH. With years in the seat in a variety of combat flight sims, this game has a lot of appeal to me. Pulled out my old Logitek joystick and discovered my new computer lacks a serial port. Go figure. Like I said it was an old joystick
So as I need to go buy a new joystick, I was wondering if forum members had any advice. First I tend to get pretty hard core about such things so I don't mind spending a little more now. I would rather buy a good stick now rather than buy a passable one then find myself going out and buying a good one after a month in game.
I am looking at the Logitek ones of course. The wireless one seems nice but caught some noise about lag being an issue. That said the Saitek stuff looks uber nce. Any opinions (like I know you don't have any)? BTW, probably not ready to go the rudder peddle route yet as my puter is in the dining room.
Suggestion for AH joystick, minimum requirements:
8 way hat (views)
Twisty stick (rudders)
Thottle on base
As many additional buttons as you can find. Some on the base won't hurt.
Yer gonna have to buy it as a USB.
You can find lots of sticks out there of differing makes and models. If you chose on with the listed mins above you will be able to fly efficiently and effectively. Less and you end up making concessions that may hurt you in the game (read-die alot).
Prices new may range from $30 on up.
Once you get one shoot me a PM to get it set up.
Ren
Aces High Training Corps
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CH is the stick you buy once. Good point is it lasts almost for ever, still waiting for mine to give me trouble...4 years so far. Bad point is they DON'T make a twisty stick for rudder inputs so you have to get a set of pedals. If your going in for the $200 to get those two you might as well get the throttle as well for another $100 and forget about having to buy anything else for a long time. :aok
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Logicrap....as its sometimes called. Had 3 of those and none of them lasted more than 3 month before the twisty rudder jammed left.
Saitek is a different matter. Same kind of stick and same kind of price.
You could go x52 OR CH Fighter Stick. Although there not twisty sticks you can still use the rudder inputs from the key board A = left S= centre D= right. I used ASD for years before getting the pedals.
CH products is the way to go in my opinion :x
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CH is the stick you buy once. Good point is it lasts almost for ever, still waiting for mine to give me trouble...4 years so far. Bad point is they DON'T make a twisty stick for rudder inputs so you have to get a set of pedals. If your going in for the $200 to get those two you might as well get the throttle as well for another $100 and forget about having to buy anything else for a long time. :aok
Logicrap....as its sometimes called. Had 3 of those and none of them lasted more than 3 month before the twisty rudder jammed left.
Saitek is a different matter. Same kind of stick and same kind of price.
You could go x52 OR CH Fighter Stick. Although there not twisty sticks you can still use the rudder inputs from the key board A = left S= centre D= right. I used ASD for years before getting the pedals.
CH products is the way to go in my opinion :x
Rarely do I ever agree with these two, but on this issue I am in total agreement. I had the X52 Pro and had nothing but problems, I switched to the CH Stick and Throttle, and couldn't be happier. I may not be a better pilot because of the switch, but at least I can't use the stick as an excuse. :D
Fred
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Get CH products and be done with it. You'll need to get pedals too. I don't think CH has a twisty stick. :salute
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CH all the way - I'm currently using a combat stick 586, with a saitek throttle and pedals - works for me, find the CH pedals a bit narrower and I've got big feet.
Wurzel
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Ended up buying the Logitech as it was the only stick available locally. Can you believe that?
I at least have one now. Already I find myself hating the twisty stick. I am so ham handed on the stick that I invariably find myself inadvertently apply rudder when I don't want to. This gives my lots of practice recovering from spins though. The problem I see with the keyboard A-S-D thing is you can't calibrate the keyboard
The CH stick is just beyond me for the moment. Maybe after I get a good taste of real combat I will reevaluate the situation. Thanks for the advice though and as I feared it seems the hard core players use CH <sigh>
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You got one?! Alright! Welcome to AH@. :salute
It's kind of interesting to note any stick that will work with the minimums listed will get you started.
Now you have a chance to begin learning the game. As you learn you will learn what works and doesn't. You have all the time in the world to learn the game. A lot of folks have listed good sticks by name. In essence they have worked their way through different sticks and finally spent the $200-300 to get their final setup. When you are just beginning it's better to get something that will get the job done. Lke you said, you've played a variety of combat flight sims. Get your feet wet and see if it's right for you. I think you'll find it's a great game with a excellent community! :) You'll find you can get addicted to he game pretty quickly and end up looking back over the years asking, "where'd all the time go?"
If you like we can meet and set up your stick. We can also minimize your rudder concerns yet still allow use your twisty rudder. It really is all in the setup and how you use the stick.
Ren
Aces High Training Corps
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Well I have been doing a lot of offline training in a bunch of different birds just to get the feeling for it. I can shoot down the drones over the airbase now with ease. Have been trying different profiles and some high angle off shots just to get the feeling. Even saddled up a Jugg and did a BnZ. The training mission for ATA seems a bit weak. I am now able to not get killed by the bot but it seems that he likes to run away if he can't get position on the first merge. Still good practice for SA and views. Still struggling with that though. I realized some of my problems stem from too much time in Jet Sims. I have a tendency to try to slam the throttle forward and pull into a 9 g turn. Gotta keep reminding myself this ain't no F-16
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Here's my joystick tale:
I flew in Air Warrior and here for almost 12 years using a Microsoft Sidewinder 3D Pro (one of the originals). It was just starting to get a little loose and had some minor spiking when I build a new computer a year ago March without a game port.
I bought a Siatek ST290 to replace the old Sidewinder. Within 3 months the main trigger either woudn't work or would start firing on it's own. I e-mailed newegg customer service (where I bought it) and they sent me a new one telling me to just keep the old one or throw it away.
In the meantime, since I couldn't go without my playing fix, I went to Best Buy and bought a Saitek AV8R. The replacement ST290 arrived and I put it in the closet as the AV8R was a nicer stick.
Within 6 months the main trigger broke on the AV8R. It just stopped working. I plugged in the ST290 and called Saitek customer service where I was on hold until I gave up. Then I e-mailed them asking for warranty service. I never got a response.
Thinking the 290 was probably going to break I went back to Best Buy and bought another AV8R, this time spending an extra $10 for the one year replacement warranty. Two weeks ago I needed to use it as the AV8R was spiking so bad it wouldn't hold calibration.
I exchanged that one at Best Buy and also tried contacting Saitek again about the warranty on the other one. This time I reached them and they gave me an RMA number.
Last night I was playing and the new replacement AV8R won't calibrate through it's entire range. Specifically the left rudder doesn't work at all.
I'm still waiting for the repaired or replaced AV8R from Saitek and I'm going to bring this one back into Best Buy for another replacement. In the meantime I'll be plugging the 290 back in today.
All of this hassle and I hear the Logitecs are worse.
I guess at this point I'll play these sticks out but it looks as though I'll have to invest in CH stuff in the near future. Unfortunately I was laid off about six weeks ago so it will have to wait otherwise the order would be placed today.
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Ended up buying the Logitech as it was the only stick available locally. Can you believe that?
I at least have one now. Already I find myself hating the twisty stick. I am so ham handed on the stick that I invariably find myself inadvertently apply rudder when I don't want to. This gives my lots of practice recovering from spins though. The problem I see with the keyboard A-S-D thing is you can't calibrate the keyboard
This is not a problem of a twisty stick by default, it's more the way that Logitech decided to do the stick forces. Simply put, Logitech twistys need very little force to "engage" the twist, so little in fact, that, as you said, apply rudder basically whenever you move the stick.
Now with Saitek twistys, it's a completely different story. They need a lot more force to engage the twist, so there is no accidental applying of rudder at all - as it should be.
I'd give the Saitek Cyborg X a try. A very good Joystick for it's price range, and beats evertythig Logitech offers in that range hands down, in many ways.
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This is not a problem of a twisty stick by default, it's more the way that Logitech decided to do the stick forces. Simply put, Logitech twistys need very little force to "engage" the twist, so little in fact, that, as you said, apply rudder basically whenever you move the stick.
Now with Saitek twistys, it's a completely different story. They need a lot more force to engage the twist, so there is no accidental applying of rudder at all - as it should be.
I'd give the Saitek Cyborg X a try. A very good Joystick for it's price range, and beats evertythig Logitech offers in that range hands down, in many ways.
the cyborg x is not a bad stick at all.
i'm sure you can get your logitech working fine though with the right settings. this is how i setup mine.
i use pedals so i dont know if this will translate well to a twisty since a twisty has less range of motion.
(http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww247/stran85/rudder.jpg?t=1244936037)
the x and y axis are identical
(http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww247/stran85/yaxis.jpg?t=1244935946)
setting the scale flat across the board at 40% allows for steady fine tuning control when you're doing normal combat manuvering. with this setting you STILL get full range of controls at full stick deflection though there is a jump at 90%. not noticeable when you're jamming the stick in that manner anyway.
my rudder is at a lower scale because i want even more control at the lower end. the deadband and dampening is turned up a little because the center is stiff... this might help with your twisty axis though i would really prefer my rudder to not stick in the center so i could leave deadband and dampening off.
this is a mix between default scaling and scaling off, and i really believe this is the best of both worlds. giving good low end control and smooth flat line scaling.
oh, and the one thing i hated about the saitek stick was the physical dead zone that made the stick feel loose in the center. my quick fix was to super glue the twisty axis and that put and end to that crap!
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I have a saitek ST290 Pro I find it a good stick, had it for over a year with no problems..has everythnig I need, I wont upgrade untill it breaks
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When I first started playing AH back in '05, I was using a Saitek ST290 pro, worked great for 2.5 years, then, I upgraded to the Logitech Extreme 3d Pro, used it for a year or so and upgraded again about 6 months ago to a Saitek X52 HOTAS system. All in all I really never had any major issues with any of the sticks except the X52. It loses calibration in flight at least 2x a session. The Logitech stick is still working fine and is my back-up and the ST 290 Pro I had to send back to Wal-Mart for replacement after 6 mo due to "axis failure". Realistically, its users choice, everyone has there likes and dislikes when it comes to their equipment. I'm sure within 6 months of playing AH, your gonna want the best of sticks, throttle and more than likely, pedals. Welcome to Aces High vettim89, you'll find your niche, flight controls and combat style.
SALUTE A8Chewey
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I think it might have been AkAk with a similar concern ref: loosing settings while in-game. If I remember rightly he bought a separately powered USB multi port controller to plug his equipment into. I use one myself and have only lost settings once or twice in the past year or so. I do, however, download my stick setup into my stick every time I start my computer and I also calibrate in game anytime I change arenas.
The USB self powered controllers are fairly cheap and will never hurt your system. But, it could help people with this kind of problem.
Not my original idea for that purpose. I had way too many USB thingys and needed a way to plug them all in. I just happened to go with a power USB multi-port box.
Hope this helps.
Ren
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I thought about that Ren, but I think my issue may be in the link to the joystick from the throttle. I never lose cali in the throttle portion only the flight stick itself. Its like I'll be in the middle of a dogfight and then the lights blink on the joystick part and down I go. If I unplug and replug the cable that connects the joy to the throttle, all is good and I can do a quick in-flight calibration and get back to fighting again. If that sounds like a power issue, then may be I will pick one of those powered USB hubs up and give it a try. It gets very frustrating when it happens 1 or 2 times, but, it has done it up to 10 times in the span of an hour.
:salute
A8Chewey
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It's very possible that one part of the setup might work perfectly yet the rest needs recal.
Multiple USB ports being used have a power requirement. I used on because I ran out of room and figured it can't hurt.
Wish you luck.
Ren
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:salute
Thanks Ren, will give it a go.
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CH at amazon.com
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CH at amazon.com
There are lotsa other places that might be cheaper. Let me look around some if ya need help....
Ren
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Using an X52 for about 2 and some years now I believe and it's given me little problem. My biggest complaint is the wire that connects to the back of the joystick comes lose every once in awhile.