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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: dirtdart on June 15, 2009, 08:22:15 PM

Title: Pintle Gunning and not dying
Post by: dirtdart on June 15, 2009, 08:22:15 PM
 :furious    yes, this is a gripe. 

The medal of honor winning pintle gunner continuing his stream of .7.62mm at the inbound typhoon.  He shrugs of the 20mm rounds impacting and ricocheting off his tank.  He quickly slews and gets another burst in.  Typhoon, engine seized ditches in a nearby field and is pitchforked to death by angry farmers. 

Yeah right.  Does anyone seriously know what it takes to kill the pintle gunner in a tank?  I can remember dying up there before, but not for about a year.  I really think that a few hundred 20mm would kill/maim/dismember a dude up in that exposed, non-armored position.

Dirtdart
Title: Re: Pintle Gunning and not dying
Post by: Nisky on June 15, 2009, 08:26:07 PM
A direct hit by a 20mm key word direct or a tank shell.
Title: Re: Pintle Gunning and not dying
Post by: lyric1 on June 15, 2009, 08:35:26 PM
The pintle gun can be destroyed. Maybe your aim is not as good as you thought?
Title: Re: Pintle Gunning and not dying
Post by: Shuffler on June 15, 2009, 08:58:23 PM
The pintle gun can be destroyed. Maybe your aim is not as good as you thought?

lol ya think?  He was flying a typhie.. nuff said.
Title: Re: Pintle Gunning and not dying
Post by: dirtdart on June 15, 2009, 10:42:46 PM
here we go, someone smacks the typhoon.......  OK, thanks for following in line with the original question and contributing to the answering of a question.  Appreciate you using your platinum status to help fellow players answer a question.  I prostrate myself before you almightiness.  Dweeb. 

Aim could be an issue, although a stream of 50-100 20mms IVO a tank should hit something, especially when you see the ricochets.  So, reality is I need to work on my aim.  I am sure no one else in the game has noticed, albeit platinum level dweebs, the difficultly in shooting out the pintle gun on a tank. Especially relative to the volume of bullets and that humans manning the things were not armored, except for their won't stop a 7.62mm and higher helmet.   

And shuffler go find some kid in MA to haze.  If you have a valid comment which contributes to the post, post it.  Otherwise can it. 

Title: Re: Pintle Gunning and not dying
Post by: flatiron1 on June 15, 2009, 10:45:59 PM
got to watch the ho even against a tank.
Title: Re: Pintle Gunning and not dying
Post by: Strip on June 15, 2009, 11:16:37 PM
If your firing 20mm cannon you dont need a direct hit to cause damage to the pintle gun. Cannon rounds are fill with high explosives and even impacting tens of feet away can ruin your day. So while the gun itself might not be destroyed the person firing hit would most certainly be down. Of course this would only apply to cannon shells being fired at an open pintle gun.
Title: Re: Pintle Gunning and not dying
Post by: froger on June 16, 2009, 12:53:31 AM
<------takes down IL 2s with lazier pintle all day long  ;)
Title: Re: Pintle Gunning and not dying
Post by: Cajunn on June 16, 2009, 01:07:34 AM
Only pintle gun I ever killed was on the T34  :D
Title: Re: Pintle Gunning and not dying
Post by: stran on June 16, 2009, 01:27:14 AM
here we go, someone smacks the typhoon.......  OK, thanks for following in line with the original question and contributing to the answering of a question.  Appreciate you using your platinum status to help fellow players answer a question.  I prostrate myself before you almightiness.  Dweeb. 

you can't achieve the metal without a little Troll in ya. :lol


and BTW. you mentioned the human manningthe pintle gun. i believe the human is still sitting in the driver's seat behind armor. when you're shooting the pintle gun you're only hitting the pintle gun, no human.
Title: Re: Pintle Gunning and not dying
Post by: A8TOOL on June 16, 2009, 02:18:07 AM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: Pintle Gunning and not dying
Post by: Crash Orange on June 16, 2009, 03:25:34 AM
and BTW. you mentioned the human manningthe pintle gun. i believe the human is still sitting in the driver's seat behind armor. when you're shooting the pintle gun you're only hitting the pintle gun, no human.

Only on a Jagdpanzer 38(t). In any of the GVs we have in this game the only way to fire the pintle gun was for the commander to open his hatch and stand with the top 1/3 or so of his body exposed. Judging by the view in the pintle gunner position, that's how it's supposed to be modeled in the game.

So the human is up there, he's just unaccountably immune to the effects of HE shell splinters.

This also applies if you raise the driver's view high enough to be above the deck of the tank. The historical reason to use that little viewing slit is absent in the game.

And to be really accurate, if the pintle MG is destroyed while being manned the player should lose the ability to go to that crew position at all, since the guy who'd be doing that is out of action. But as stated above, who really wants total accuracy anyway? GVs are already hard enough to survive in with planes around.
Title: Re: Pintle Gunning and not dying
Post by: sunfan1121 on June 16, 2009, 03:35:05 AM
Ive never been in a situation where i thought to myself, "man i need this pintle gun dead." Your making an issue out of a non issue. You ever think maby, i dunno, don't come in it angle where he can shoot at you. That way you can still cry on the BBS about not killing the pintle, but at least live to landyour sortie.
Title: Re: Pintle Gunning and not dying
Post by: stran on June 16, 2009, 03:37:59 AM
Only on a Jagdpanzer 38(t). In any of the GVs we have in this game the only way to fire the pintle gun was for the commander to open his hatch and stand with the top 1/3 or so of his body exposed. Judging by the view in the pintle gunner position, that's how it's supposed to be modeled in the game.

So the human is up there, he's just unaccountably immune to the effects of HE shell splinters.

This also applies if you raise the driver's view high enough to be above the deck of the tank. The historical reason to use that little viewing slit is absent in the game.

And to be really accurate, if the pintle MG is destroyed while being manned the player should lose the ability to go to that crew position at all, since the guy who'd be doing that is out of action. But as stated above, who really wants total accuracy anyway? GVs are already hard enough to survive in with planes around.

i think you misunderstood my post. i'm talking about the damage model, not a real tank. i'm saying there's only one way to kill the pilot, and that's to aim for the driver's seat with a round that will penetrate.
Title: Re: Pintle Gunning and not dying
Post by: RTHolmes on June 16, 2009, 06:57:53 AM
I lose pintle guns to decent strafing almost every time, hardly ever lose coax or hull guns though, so it seems about right to me.
Title: Re: Pintle Gunning and not dying
Post by: CHAPPY on June 16, 2009, 07:34:24 AM
And shuffler go find some kid in MA to haze.  If you have a valid comment which contributes to the post, post it.  Otherwise can it. 



 :rofl
Title: Re: Pintle Gunning and not dying
Post by: chewiex on June 16, 2009, 07:46:13 AM
Only pintle gun I ever killed was on the T34  :D

 :huh You are kidding right? A little sarcasm?  :huh
Title: Re: Pintle Gunning and not dying
Post by: sunfan1121 on June 16, 2009, 08:03:11 AM
:huh You are kidding right? A little sarcasm?  :huh
how could you tell?
Title: Re: Pintle Gunning and not dying
Post by: coola4me on June 16, 2009, 08:51:48 AM
What i really love is when im in a tank shooting at another tank when all of a sudden some guy swoops in from the heavens to strafe a tank theres no way he could kill! I just usually stop shooting till the strafer either lands or gets dead! Dont like givin kills away LOL! The question arises, Why were you strafing the pintel gun of a hvy armoured tank in the first place? You cant kill the tank with a typhie (unless u have ord). You would just be basicly stealing a kill, unless it was an m3 m16 251 or m8. Just my opinion and we all know what opinions smell like  :D
Title: Re: Pintle Gunning and not dying
Post by: Shuffler on June 16, 2009, 09:09:55 AM
here we go, someone smacks the typhoon.......  OK, thanks for following in line with the original question and contributing to the answering of a question.  Appreciate you using your platinum status to help fellow players answer a question.  I prostrate myself before you almightiness.  Dweeb. 

Aim could be an issue, although a stream of 50-100 20mms IVO a tank should hit something, especially when you see the ricochets.  So, reality is I need to work on my aim.  I am sure no one else in the game has noticed, albeit platinum level dweebs, the difficultly in shooting out the pintle gun on a tank. Especially relative to the volume of bullets and that humans manning the things were not armored, except for their won't stop a 7.62mm and higher helmet.   

And shuffler go find some kid in MA to haze.  If you have a valid comment which contributes to the post, post it.  Otherwise can it. 


Go to the TA and get some assistance. You can learn a lot about aiming and flying in there.
Oh and when you post a whine you'll get all kinds of answers.
Title: Re: Pintle Gunning and not dying
Post by: waystin2 on June 16, 2009, 09:42:01 AM
Do not strafe tanks in a fighter unless you absolutely have to.  Drop a bomb on the offending tank if you can before going to guns.  As a fairly experienced GV'er I will tell you that I pick up a lot of kills from folks who think they can strafe down a vehicle that only has a .30/.50 cal MG that they can bring to bear on target.  If you want to kill GV's up the IL-2. 
Title: Re: Pintle Gunning and not dying
Post by: vonKrimm on June 16, 2009, 10:28:41 AM
Go to the TA and get some assistance. You can learn a lot about aiming and flying in there.
Oh and when you post a whine you'll get all kinds of answers.

He does not need assistance oh-almighty(mouthy)shuffler, he was pointing out that the "hardness" of pintle guns should be dependant on the TC manning it.  You completely missed the point in an effort to deride him.  to top it off, you felt compelled to come back & defend your bashing.  You get +1 for suggesting the TA though.

I think we call all agree that pintle guns are a little "tough" to knock-off in general.
Title: Re: Pintle Gunning and not dying
Post by: Shuffler on June 16, 2009, 10:37:48 AM
  :rofl
When your unable to carry your side of a discussion start calling names.

FAIL!


If he was able to hit the gun it would be knocked out. That is the basic problem.... not the hardness of said gun.

But too many in this game do not want to learn. They would rather complain.
Title: Re: Pintle Gunning and not dying
Post by: vonKrimm on June 16, 2009, 10:45:44 AM
& too many would rather be a grognards than be actual contributors  :lol
Title: Re: Pintle Gunning and not dying
Post by: dkff49 on June 16, 2009, 10:59:25 AM
If I have to stop this car and come back there you 2 will be sorry.
Title: Re: Pintle Gunning and not dying
Post by: coola4me on June 16, 2009, 12:00:48 PM
If I have to stop this car and come back there you 2 will be sorry.

WOW That brought back some painful vacation memories!!!  (http://www.runemasterstudios.com/graemlins/images/willy_nilly.gif)
Title: Re: Pintle Gunning and not dying
Post by: dirtdart on June 16, 2009, 12:12:16 PM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: Pintle Gunning and not dying
Post by: Shuffler on June 16, 2009, 12:42:30 PM
& too many would rather be a grognards than be actual contributors  :lol

I contributed.... what did you do?


lol DK classic  :lol
Title: Re: Pintle Gunning and not dying
Post by: chewiex on June 16, 2009, 02:22:13 PM
how could you tell?

HA!!!!
 :noid
Title: Re: Pintle Gunning and not dying
Post by: DREDIOCK on June 16, 2009, 06:58:17 PM
The pintle gun can be destroyed. Maybe your aim is not as good as you thought?

I can confirm this. Happens to me all the time.


Then again. Seems to me a guy name Audy Murphy did fairly well using a pintle
Title: Re: Pintle Gunning and not dying
Post by: AWwrgwy on June 16, 2009, 08:06:41 PM
It has been my experience that pintle guns are pretty easy to destroy.  My experience comming from the being destroyed side.

I'm in the "your aim ain't so great" camp, my own experiences as shooting pintle guns included.

Besides, everyone knows the last defense comes from the hull gun.



wrongway
Title: Re: Pintle Gunning and not dying
Post by: lyric1 on June 16, 2009, 08:33:49 PM
Besides, everyone knows the last defense comes from the hull gun.

wrongway

Now that is a gun that cant be taken out. :aok


http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,265225.0.html

Title: Re: Pintle Gunning and not dying
Post by: mechanic on June 16, 2009, 08:57:20 PM
Ive never been in a situation where i thought to myself, "man i need this pintle gun dead."

 :rofl

 best post!
Title: Re: Pintle Gunning and not dying
Post by: A8TOOL on June 16, 2009, 09:41:44 PM
Quote from: sunfan1121 on Today at 03:35:05 AM
Ive never been in a situation where i thought to myself, "man i need this pintle gun dead."



:rofl

 best post!


That is pretty funny,  :lol

Strange thing is, just a few days ago i heard someone complaining about being shot down by a tanks Pintle gun. Later in the night I ended up getting pretty shot up by one myself, later ending that sortie with a pintle splinter PW.

The next Night Seighan was crying bloody murder on vox about getting his wing torn off by one... then the next day I read this post.

Maybe they are more dangerous than we thought  :noid

Title: Re: Pintle Gunning and not dying
Post by: dkff49 on June 16, 2009, 09:57:19 PM
I typically drive the Panzer more than any other GV but occasionally I take up a Tiger and I must say that I think it is much easier to get an air kill in a Tiger than a Panzer. Now this may be some strange bit of luck that it happens that way but it still seems that way to me.
Title: Re: Pintle Gunning and not dying
Post by: AWwrgwy on June 16, 2009, 10:32:24 PM
Now that is a gun that cant be taken out. :aok


http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,265225.0.html



Only in an LVT4 where I, strangely, lost both the pintle gun and hull gun on one pass but still had the main gun.  I've also been pilot wounded in a gv once.  Once.


wrongway
Title: Re: Pintle Gunning and not dying
Post by: Shuffler on June 17, 2009, 09:34:17 AM
  I've also been pilot wounded in a gv once.  Once.
wrongway

Wow... I don't recall ever seeing that before. I don't gv much but I always go pop or not.... no in between.
Title: Re: Pintle Gunning and not dying
Post by: frank3 on June 17, 2009, 09:40:07 AM
A pilot wound, or driver wound, in a gv is pretty rare! I've never had it myself.

What I don't understand is why people would complain about being shot down by a pintle gun. Ok it's only one .303, but it's still a machinegun!
I'd complain about my flying skills after being shot down by one...
Title: Re: Pintle Gunning and not dying
Post by: waystin2 on June 17, 2009, 10:37:35 AM
A pilot wound, or driver wound, in a gv is pretty rare! I've never had it myself.


I have had one in an SDK & an LVT.  It is definitely wierd...
Title: Re: Pintle Gunning and not dying
Post by: Megalodon on June 17, 2009, 12:26:46 PM

And shuffler go find some kid in MA to haze.  If you have a valid comment which contributes to the post, post it.  Otherwise can it. 



 :aok no kidding
Title: Re: Pintle Gunning and not dying
Post by: Shuffler on June 17, 2009, 01:08:43 PM
:aok no kidding

I contributed..... unfortunately you didn't.
Title: Re: Pintle Gunning and not dying
Post by: dirtdart on June 17, 2009, 01:19:58 PM
Can a .303 or 7.62 make it through the ballistic wind screen and firewall on a IL-2?  I have been PWd many a time by that little gun.  Thought the armor around IL-2 pilot pretty good. 
Title: Re: Pintle Gunning and not dying
Post by: Shuffler on June 17, 2009, 05:30:02 PM
Can a .303 or 7.62 make it through the ballistic wind screen and firewall on a IL-2?  I have been PWd many a time by that little gun.  Thought the armor around IL-2 pilot pretty good. 

Good question... I'm not familiar with the placement of the armor on an IL. I was PW in a B-25H last night by the pintle on a panzer. It might have been one of the numerous wirbs in the area but I think it was the little pintle.

Keep in mind the energy of those rounds are enhanced by your approach speed.
Title: Re: Pintle Gunning and not dying
Post by: waystin2 on June 17, 2009, 06:22:42 PM

Keep in mind the energy of those rounds are enhanced by your approach speed.

The other factor is the longer you hold the plane steady in a strafe run on a tank or any GV for that matter, the more effective and compounded the defensive fire becomes. 
Title: Re: Pintle Gunning and not dying
Post by: lyric1 on June 17, 2009, 06:30:37 PM
Can a .303 or 7.62 make it through the ballistic wind screen and firewall on a IL-2?  I have been PWd many a time by that little gun.  Thought the armor around IL-2 pilot pretty good. 
Don't know how ever I have shot them down in the game with just the pintle & hull gun?
Title: Re: Pintle Gunning and not dying
Post by: dirtdart on June 17, 2009, 07:44:10 PM
Got this from Wikipedia:

The armored tub ranging from 5-12 mm (0.2-0.5 in) in thickness and enveloping the engine and the cockpit, could deflect all small arms fire and glancing blows from larger-caliber ammunition. There are reports of the armored windscreen surviving direct hits from 20 mm (0.79 in) rounds. Unfortunately, the rear gunners did not have the benefit of all-around armor protection and suffered about four times more casualties than the pilots.

Thanks to the heavy armor protection, an Il-2 could take a great deal of punishment and proved difficult for both ground and aircraft fire to down. One Il-2 in particular was reported to have returned safely to base despite receiving more than 600 direct shell hits and having all its control surfaces completely shredded as well as numerous holes in its main armor and other structural damage. Some pilots favored aiming down into the cockpit and wing roots in diving attacks on the slow, low-flying Il-2 formations.[16] Several Luftwaffe aces claimed to attack while climbing from behind, out of view of the rear gunner, and aim for the Il-2's non-retractable oil cooler.

But, like earlier, if the Pintle guns are uber, there is likely a reason. 
Title: Re: Pintle Gunning and not dying
Post by: strong10 on June 18, 2009, 12:21:44 AM
  When strafing a tank to kill it, you need to come down on it's head from a steep angle to kill it most effectively.  When performing this maneuver, you are out of the shooting angle of the pintle gun and also very easy to kill the gun.  You will receive no damage and dish out maximum damage.  Don't strafe a tank from a low angle unless you want exposure to damage from all guns on tank including main gun.