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Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: AKP on June 16, 2009, 09:32:14 AM

Title: Using the 75mm Cannon on the B25H Effectively
Post by: AKP on June 16, 2009, 09:32:14 AM: Ever since I started playing AH2, I have been flying the B25H. I have always liked the Mitchell, and the H model, with its nose full of .50's, and the 75mm cannon has always been a joy to fly in game.

However, one of the problems I had, was accurately firing the 75 at long range... so, I searched the forums and found a gunsight that GhostH had worked on which had range marks for up to 4000 yards. What a find!

(http://home.comcast.net/~princeak/b25Hwh.bmp)
GhostH's Original Gunsight

Me being the constant tinkerer, I took his gunsight into Photoshop, and dressed it up a bit. I layered it over the US MK9 gunsight that comes with the game, and then layered new range marks over his, with the actual range numbers alongside them... because I KNEW I would forget which marks were for which range when I was flying.

(http://home.comcast.net/~princeak/b25HwhV2.bmp)
GhostH/AKP Modified Gunsight

Then I did one that looked a little "cooler", using alpha texturing.

(http://home.comcast.net/~princeak/B25H75mm.bmp)
GhostH/AKP Final Gunsight

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l273/woosle_2006/b25h_ss.jpg)
In Game Shot

I posted my sight mods in the original forum thread that I found GhostH's in, and called it a day... going off to play with my new gunsight. What I didnt know, was there were going to be tons of questions on ranging, calibration, and target leading... not to mention, a big response from people thanking me for the gunsight. What started as simply making the gunsight which GhostH designed look "a little sexier", somehow turned into a rather in-depth, but fun, project.

So... on the suggestions of Lusche and GhostH, I have moved the gunsight post here, along with the screenshots showing how to estimate range, and lead on a moving ship. Just remember, I am no expert on this yet. I am just a player like you, who has put together some information that I hope will help. Here is what I came up with:

FINDING RANGE AND LEAD TO A CARRIER WITH THE MODIFIED GUNSIGHT:

This was done in the training arena, with the help of my son (AJP) sitting on the flight deck as I made runs at the ship with the cameras rolling.

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l273/woosle_2006/B25H_4000b.jpg)
This is a shot at 4K with the sight lined up dead center on the CV. Note that the CV FILLS the gunsight from end to end. I use this as my indicator for this range.

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l273/woosle_2006/B25H_4000a.jpg)
This is at 4K again, but this time with the gunsight lined up at the bottom of the vertical line... the 4000m aiming point.

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l273/woosle_2006/B25H_3000.jpg)
Here is the CV at 3K. Note that if the 3K aiming point is placed halfway up the main hull, the top of the mast is at the 2K aiming point. Again... best indicator for this range that I have found.

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l273/woosle_2006/B25H_2000.jpg)
Here we are at 2K. I have the 2K aiming point placed halfway up the hull again. This puts the 1K aiming point just about at the top of the stack.

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l273/woosle_2006/B25H_1000.jpg)
Finally we have the CV at 1K. Note that the island just fits inside the inner circle of the gunsight from top to bottom.

Also... since the circular part of the gunsight is the standard US MK9... you can use these pics to find the range to a carrier even if you arent using the modified sight.

After I posted these, it was pointed out that I should let people know they need to LEAD a moving target with the 75mm. While this is true against any moving target, with any projectile, the 75mm travels MUCH slower than a machine gun round... and the lead is very important.

As you will see in the pictures below, at 4000 yards, the point you want to target a CV is right on the bow. This will place the round right on the island when it hits. Also... note that from the time that I fired, my plane traveled 900 yards closer to the ship before it hit. So... when your 4000 yard shot hits, its time to fire your 3000 yard shot. Here are the screenshots:

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l273/woosle_2006/B25HLead4000_01.jpg)
Note the orange shellburst just leaving the gun. Also... the 4000 yard aiming point is lined up with the tip of the bow.

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l273/woosle_2006/B25HLead4000_02.jpg)
KABLAM! Dead center hit on the island!

Now, with the 4000 yard shot having its aiming point at the bow, simply aim between the bow and the island for your 3000 yard shot, and cut the distance in half again for the 2000 yard shot. See the pic below:

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l273/woosle_2006/B25HLeadMarks.jpg)

Note that these hits were scored at about 300' AGL, speed 250 mph. The plane was in a shallow dive when I was firing. If your attack angle is steeper, the range markers are going to be off and you will have to adjust. Just remember that the steeper the attack angle, the CLOSER the aiming points get to the center of the sight. I have made another version of the sight with more graduations to assist with this:

(http://home.comcast.net/~princeak/B25H75mmV2.bmp)

BOMBING WITH THE B25H

With all that hardware in the nose of the B25H, there is no room for a bombardier, or a bombsight. So... you have to bomb with it like you would in a fighter or dive bomber. However... I DO NOT recommend diving at a steep dive angle with the 25. That is, unless you want to see your wings rip right off.

As noted in the pic below, the aiming point for bomb release is the BOTTOM OF THE SIGHT GLASS. This works best in level flight, or a shallow dive at 250mph, and at about 300 feet AGL. So when your target is at that point, let your bombs go, hit your WEP, and climb out.

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l273/woosle_2006/Bombrelease.jpg)

I hope everyone that likes to "Drive 25's" finds this information helpful. I know when I found the work that GhostH had done, it was a HUGE help to me in making the 75mm more effective in game.

Now, even though I used a carrier as my target in this demonstration, the ranging info will work with ANY target in the game. Just remember that the smaller ships are going to be a LOT closer if you size them in the sight the way I did the CV. If I can get my son to sit in front of some hangars, and other base structures, I will post from shots of what those buildings look like in the sights at the indicated ranges also.

As for shooting at moving ground and air targets with the 75mm... it can be done, and its very effective. That however, is going to take practice.

Please let me know how it works for you, and if there are any corrections, or additions that I should make to what I have here. As I get more information on ranging ground targets and things of that nature, I will post it here.

Thanks to GhostH for making the original sight which was the inspiration for all of this, to my son AJP for being my target, and to everyone else who made suggestions and comments.

Happy Hunting! :salute
Title: Re: Using the 75mm Cannon on the B25H Effectively
Post by: A8TOOL on June 16, 2009, 11:36:40 AM: :salute

Very nice write up AKP! A lot of time and effort went into this sight and it seems to be a success. :aok

Here are some of my favorites yours will be added too. None go to a B-25 though.

(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii226/A8TOOL/Yellow_A-1_rocket.jpg)(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii226/A8TOOL/Osti_default.jpg)(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii226/A8TOOL/default.jpg)

(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii226/A8TOOL/A-1Type1_Alpha.jpg)(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii226/A8TOOL/Blue_default.jpg)(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii226/A8TOOL/bf109_2.jpg)

(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii226/A8TOOL/Yellow_inner_circle.jpg)(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii226/A8TOOL/AV_Tool-1.jpg)(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii226/A8TOOL/Cajun-2.jpg)

Currant
(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii226/A8TOOL/AV_Tool555.jpg)
Title: Re: Using the 75mm Cannon on the B25H Effectively
Post by: mtnman on June 16, 2009, 10:53:30 PM: Nice post AKP. I downloaded and tried the sight you and Ghosth both gave input on, and had a blast with it!

I don't fly those planes much, but they are a favorite, and I may have to try them more often. I was getting single-shot kills on tanks with it last night, and even did ok on the backside of two fighters, hehe!

Thanks for posting and sharing the info!
Title: Re: Using the 75mm Cannon on the B25H Effectively
Post by: AKP on June 16, 2009, 11:09:40 PM: Thanks mtnman... the 25H is a favorite of mine too. And thanks for the comment A8TOOL. See you guys in the air!
Title: Re: Using the 75mm Cannon on the B25H Effectively
Post by: grizz441 on June 16, 2009, 11:47:58 PM: Thx for the writeup, and the gunsight.
Title: Re: Using the 75mm Cannon on the B25H Effectively
Post by: moot on June 17, 2009, 12:45:12 AM: AKP This is all with the default head position?
Title: Re: Using the 75mm Cannon on the B25H Effectively
Post by: AKP on June 17, 2009, 01:16:41 AM: Quote from: moot on June 17, 2009, 12:45:12 AM
AKP This is all with the default head position?

Yes and no.... default head position, but fully zoomed in.
Title: Re: Using the 75mm Cannon on the B25H Effectively
Post by: Hap on June 17, 2009, 05:39:17 AM: TY and well done!
Title: Re: Using the 75mm Cannon on the B25H Effectively
Post by: chewiex on June 17, 2009, 01:14:35 PM: I have been using the sight and it works well. :aok Much easier to aquire range as well. Good work AKP and GhostH. :salute
Title: Re: Using the 75mm Cannon on the B25H Effectively
Post by: Tr1gg22 on June 17, 2009, 02:53:38 PM: very nice !!S!!
Title: Re: Using the 75mm Cannon on the B25H Effectively
Post by: Big Rat on June 17, 2009, 09:11:15 PM: Thak you! :aok

:salute
BigRat
Title: Re: UPDATE - Using the 75mm Cannon on the B25H Effectively
Post by: AKP on June 18, 2009, 08:08:35 AM: Ok... did a few ranging exercises attacking a couple of towns. One last night and one again this morning. Here are the shots from last night:

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l273/woosle_2006/TownShot01_Firing.jpg)
Here I am firing at the storage tank at about 2K.

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l273/woosle_2006/TownShot01_Gauges.jpg)
These were my gauge readings at the time of the shot... Alt 500 (town was on a hill, so I was actually about 300 AGL), Speed 250, Dive rate 600 fpm.

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l273/woosle_2006/TownShot01_Hit.jpg)
Hit on the storage tank. Now, it looks like I hit right on top of it, so I am estimating (by going off of the range markers when I took the shot) that I was BETWEEN 1K and 2K... so, around 1.5K out when I fired. You can also see that by the time the shot landed, there are tracers coming up from the town.

Here are shots from this morning.

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l273/woosle_2006/TownShot02_Firing.jpg)
I have the sight aimed at the building on the 2000 range marker

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l273/woosle_2006/TownShot02_Hit.jpg)
And another hit.

I noted that while the town building went down with just one shell, the storage tank did not.

Towns are tough to range out. They are spread out, and depending on what direction you make your attack run from, you may or may not be able to clearly see structures you want to use as range indicators. My guess, is that the towers are going to be the best landmarks to use, but you cant always see the bottoms of them. I will be posting more when my son agrees to sit in a town as a range marker (Oh how he loves doing that :huh ) and I can give good examples of what different structures look like at different ranges in the gunsight. In the shots posted above, I was in the MW arenas... so I also had to dodge incoming AAA from the town. And for some reason, the town AI gunners are extremely good about "head-shotting" my pilot with good regularity!
Title: Re: Using the 75mm Cannon on the B25H Effectively
Post by: Lusche on June 18, 2009, 08:40:04 AM: Great stuff! :aok
Title: Re: Using the 75mm Cannon on the B25H Effectively
Post by: AKP on June 18, 2009, 09:12:15 AM: Thanx! :salute
Title: Re: Using the 75mm Cannon on the B25H Effectively
Post by: AKP on July 28, 2009, 07:47:12 PM: Been meaning to post one last time on ranging with the B25H and the new gunsight. Since I had a bunch of time after the update while everyone else was resetting their presets... :lol ...I remembered to take some film while one of my teammates was taking off... giving me good ranging info on the radar tower at a base to present here.

Here I am at 4K out. WWhiskey is about 4.3 out, and is a little farther from me than the tower. Note that the tower reaches from the bottom of the sight line (the 4K Range Mark) to the 3K range mark.

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l273/woosle_2006/B25H_4000Base.jpg)

Here we are at 3K away from the tower. If the base of the tower is at the 3K mark, the top of it is at about the 1K mark.

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l273/woosle_2006/B25H_3000Base.jpg)

At 2K out, with the bottom of the tower at the 2K marker, the top of it is at the top of the inner sight ring.

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l273/woosle_2006/B25H_2000Base.jpg)

Finally, we are at 1K (WWhiskey is out of the frame for this shot).

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l273/woosle_2006/B25H_1000Base.jpg)

I dont really see a good range indicator for this shot, but here is a tip. If you are flying at about 250MPH, you will close on a stationary target about 1K in the time it takes to reload and fire your next round. So if you start your attack run at 4K away... you will have time to get off 4 shots with the 75mm before its time to pull up and come around.

As for the other buildings, and for shooting at GV's... that just takes time, and practice. I simply dont have the time to run training shots and have my teammates sitting so I can get accurate range information while I am in combat :D

So with these pics, I am going to call this topic to a close as far as providing any more data from in game. As I said before, I hope it helps those of you who fly the 25H. The time it took for me to do it helped me become quite a bit more accurate with the cannon.

Any feedback is welcome, and if anyone has any info to add, please do.

:salute
Title: Re: Using the 75mm Cannon on the B25H Effectively
Post by: Lusche on July 28, 2009, 07:51:35 PM: Great stuff again AKP!

:aok
:salute
Title: Re: Using the 75mm Cannon on the B25H Effectively
Post by: morfiend on July 28, 2009, 11:42:55 PM: Great stuff AKP.

Thx for your hard work,should help many ingame!

:salute
Title: Re: Using the 75mm Cannon on the B25H Effectively
Post by: Ghosth on July 29, 2009, 05:37:19 AM: Agree that around 250 mph you get aprox 1k closure between reloads. So timing that first shot can be critical. Very very nice work you've done with this AKP
Title: Re: Using the 75mm Cannon on the B25H Effectively
Post by: mensa180 on July 29, 2009, 05:55:40 AM: Great information AKP.
Title: Re: Using the 75mm Cannon on the B25H Effectively
Post by: AKP on July 29, 2009, 07:14:50 AM: Thankee thankee... It was a pleasure doing it! :salute

And just another note regarding the number of shots you can get off during an attack run... 2 hits will take down just about all of your softer targets (town buildings, towers, ammo bunkers, barracks, etc). 1 hit will take down any gun battery, (except a shore battery). Hangars and ships can be softened up or finished off by the 75mm cannon, but are best dealt with by bombs. In the case of hangars its takes 3000lbs of explosives to take one down. The explosive power of a single 75mm HE round is calculated in AH as being 156.3 lbs of ordnance... so it would take 20 hits with the 75mm to knock down a hangar. I have never tested that to its completion, as I use bombs in combination with the cannon to hit hangars with. Kinda like the ol' "How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop" question. :D

The primary mission I fly in the 25H is deacking fields, taking out softer targets, and strafing GV's. The 25H is best used in a SUPPORTING role with other attackers when hitting hangars or a task group.
Title: Re: Using the 75mm Cannon on the B25H Effectively
Post by: AKP on July 29, 2009, 03:21:50 PM: Had a few people asking how to get the sights I have posted here...

Just right click on the picture of the sight you want, select "save image as", then put it in your sights folder. Once you go into the game, go into options... then select gunsights, and assign that sight to the pilots position on the B25H.

They will be transparent once you get them into the game.
Title: Re: Using the 75mm Cannon on the B25H Effectively
Post by: Bannock on December 02, 2010, 08:09:14 AM: :aok :aok
Great sight and fantastic write up on it.

Thanks again, for sharing this with the AH community, and B-25 drivers in particular.
:salute
Title: Re: Using the 75mm Cannon on the B25H Effectively
Post by: greens on December 02, 2010, 12:55:15 PM: cool sights dude :aok the 25H is like the memphis belle's fav planes :salute
Title: Re: Using the 75mm Cannon on the B25H Effectively
Post by: oneway on December 05, 2010, 06:24:30 PM: I popped this in and didn't get a picture frame remotely resembling your screen shots...

I think this might have to do with screen resolution...

I am running at 1920 x 1200

Oneway

Max zoom head default:

(http://www.cadframers.com/ah/ah_25h_site1.png)

Max zoom head full forward:

(http://www.cadframers.com/ah/ah_25h_site2.png)
Title: Re: Using the 75mm Cannon on the B25H Effectively
Post by: Rhah on December 05, 2010, 08:03:33 PM: Quote from: oneway on December 05, 2010, 06:24:30 PM
I popped this in and didn't get a picture frame remotely resembling your screen shots...

I think this might have to do with screen resolution...

I am running at 1920 x 1200

Oneway

I have the same problem, I believe this is happening because the sight was never changed to work with the new mil system that HTC put in a few patches ago, hence the sight is too big.

Note: I believe the distances are still close enough that the idea of the sight still works, it's just too big atm
Title: Re: Using the 75mm Cannon on the B25H Effectively
Post by: AKP on December 07, 2010, 05:31:14 AM: Quote from: Rhah on December 05, 2010, 08:03:33 PM
I have the same problem, I believe this is happening because the sight was never changed to work with the new mil system that HTC put in a few patches ago, hence the sight is too big.

Note: I believe the distances are still close enough that the idea of the sight still works, it's just too big atm

Sorry about that... the mil size for this sight with the new system is 85. To get that, make a .txt file in your sights folder. The only thing in the file is 85, written on the first line. Save it, then rename the file to B25H75mmV3.mil (if you are using the final version of my sight).

Hope that helps.