Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: SpyHawk on July 03, 2000, 09:06:00 AM

Title: Late War Uberplanes
Post by: SpyHawk on July 03, 2000, 09:06:00 AM
Just weighing in on the late war (prop)Uberplanes debate.

I say give the Luftwaffe their Dora-9.
I say give the RAF their Spit XIV.
But I also say
Give the Japanese their Ki-100.
Give the USN/MC their F4U-4 (let the player choose between cannon and MG armament in the hangar).
Title: Late War Uberplanes
Post by: indian on July 03, 2000, 10:39:00 AM
F8F  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)

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Tommy (INDIAN) Toon
Member Of The 1st Aces High Trainer Corps.
Everthing else is just Second place.
Indian's Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/~tltoon)
Title: Late War Uberplanes
Post by: funked on July 03, 2000, 11:17:00 AM
Ki-100 was not superior in performance to the Ki-44 except at high altitude.  You might want a Ki-84.   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Title: Late War Uberplanes
Post by: SpyHawk on July 03, 2000, 12:38:00 PM
Well, that's fine. I say let the Japanese players, and/or players who fly or would fly predominantly Japanese planes choose which one they want. My only restrictions I'd say are that it would have to have been produced and entered squadron service AND seen combat.
Title: Late War Uberplanes
Post by: Spritle on July 03, 2000, 01:21:00 PM
Since the Ki-84 was the 3rd most produced fighter by Japan during the war I think it more than qualifies.  
Title: Late War Uberplanes
Post by: Zigrat on July 03, 2000, 01:28:00 PM
No Cannon armorment for the f4u-4
no
just say no
no
just say no

This way, people who choose to fly the c hog wil be outflown and run down like dogs by their f4u-4 counterparts  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Title: Late War Uberplanes
Post by: juzz on July 03, 2000, 10:28:00 PM
Hello?! WarBirds already went through the whole "cannons on the F4U-4" thing...

And how about giving the Russians a late-war uberplane? Like the La-7R.  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Title: Late War Uberplanes
Post by: Toad on July 03, 2000, 11:22:00 PM
Wonder how many LW guys would fly a Dora with a six MG/no cannon gun pkg.   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

Title: Late War Uberplanes
Post by: SnakeEyes on July 04, 2000, 12:27:00 AM
Most LW pilots wouldn't know what to do with 6x50s.   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

"What, you mean I have to get more than three or four hits?!?  Blasphemer!!"  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

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SnakeEyes
o-o-o-
=4th Fighter Group=
Title: Late War Uberplanes
Post by: gatt on July 04, 2000, 03:36:00 AM

Give axis fiters the same laser-modeled machine gun then ... and no one will whine  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)

In RL 2x12,7mm Breda-SAFAT were enuff to shoot down Hurricanes and P40s ....

 (http://aviart.tcel.com/im-cr42.jpg)
Title: Late War Uberplanes
Post by: Toad on July 05, 2000, 03:24:00 PM
Gatt,

Perhaps you can give us a comparison of the ballistic data for the US .50 cal and the Bredas?

Muzzle Velocity, Projectile Weight, Drop at various ranges?

I'd like to see the stats side by side.
Title: Late War Uberplanes
Post by: Nashwan on July 05, 2000, 03:41:00 PM
I don't know if the question is mischievous or not, but here are some stats. From http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/8217/fgun/fgun-pe.html (http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/8217/fgun/fgun-pe.html)
Browning .50 M2 12.7 x 99 (48.5 g) 750 rpm  870 m/s  30 kg
MG 131  13 x 64B (34.6 g) 900 rpm  730 m/s  17 kg
Breda-SAFAT  12.7 x 81SR (36.7 g) 700 rpm  760 m/s  29 kg
UBK  12.7 x 108 (48 g)  1050 rpm  850 m/s  21 kg

Title: Late War Uberplanes
Post by: gatt on July 05, 2000, 06:02:00 PM

Nash data are quite correct. What actually isnt possible to model is the reliability of the Breda-SAFAT. Those 12,7mm were very difficult to jam and were very reliable even in the difficult North African theatre. Moreover, the a/p, tracer, incendiary mix of the Breda was lethal and the gun looked like a lite 15mm cannon more than a simple heavy MG.
Title: Late War Uberplanes
Post by: Toad on July 05, 2000, 11:14:00 PM
 
Quote
Originally posted by Nashwan:

Browning .50 M2 12.7 x 99 (48.5 g) 750 rpm  870 m/s  30 kg

Breda-SAFAT  12.7 x 81SR (36.7 g) 700 rpm  760 m/s  29 kg

Nope, not mischievious.

I just figured maybe he knew something I didn't know, which is quite easy to do!

What I see here is that the Breda fires a significantly lighter slug at a significantly lower muzzle velocity.

Generally that would indicate that the .50 would significantly outperform the Breda.

However, you need the ballistic coefficients of the projectiles as well to get a more inclusive picture that would show trajectory differences as well.
Title: Late War Uberplanes
Post by: Gorf on July 07, 2000, 02:59:00 PM
I say the requirements be produced and entered squadron service AND in route to the front... not nescesarily seen combat.  

Title: Late War Uberplanes
Post by: SnakeEyes on July 07, 2000, 05:20:00 PM
Hehe... Gorf is anglin' to get the F8F, F7F, and P-51H I think.   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

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SnakeEyes
o-o-o-
=4th Fighter Group=
Title: Late War Uberplanes
Post by: chisel on July 07, 2000, 10:35:00 PM
"What, you mean I have to get more than three or four hits?!? Blasphemer!!"

"Oh, OK I just hold this here button down and spray till I hit something.....Gotcha!"

 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Title: Late War Uberplanes
Post by: SnakeEyes on July 07, 2000, 11:59:00 PM
Only is a gotcha if you averaged > 13% gunnery back in Brand W.   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

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SnakeEyes
o-o-o-
=4th Fighter Group=
Title: Late War Uberplanes
Post by: BigJoe on July 08, 2000, 01:15:00 AM
Gatt, we just ask that the the radio controlled glider bombs are available if the He177A-5 comes into the arena.
Title: Late War Uberplanes
Post by: Fishu on July 08, 2000, 02:21:00 AM
 
Quote
Originally posted by SpyHawk:
Just weighing in on the late war (prop)Uberplanes debate.

I say give the Luftwaffe their Dora-9.
I say give the RAF their Spit XIV.
But I also say
Give the Japanese their Ki-100.
Give the USN/MC their F4U-4 (let the player choose between cannon and MG armament in the hangar).

Only Dora-9? thats mean!
Japs already has that rare N1K2 and americans has that rare F4U-C.. Ok, wheres my rare Ta-152H or Dora 12 or 13!
Brits dont need spit XIV, they need tempest  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)))
(I haven't flown that bird yet, but I have got sick of spitfries in every game but no tempest... typhoon is good change for once even)
Title: Late War Uberplanes
Post by: Fishu on July 08, 2000, 02:25:00 AM
 
Quote
Originally posted by SnakeEyes:
Most LW pilots wouldn't know what to do with 6x50s.    (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

"What, you mean I have to get more than three or four hits?!? Blasphemer!!"


I would lean back and have fun with star wars lasers, with no need to wonder how many kilometers deflection I need this time.

More likely, "how many bullets I save now when I don't have to waste bullets on deflection?"
Oh, btw. I've rip off many wings with .50s on less than 10 hits  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif))
Gotta say thats overrating my 20mm, which I can plunder into F4U for same amount. (and i always thought that cannon had better hit power per shell)
Title: Late War Uberplanes
Post by: Pongo on July 08, 2000, 11:36:00 AM
 
Quote
Originally posted by SnakeEyes:
Most LW pilots wouldn't know what to do with 6x50s.    (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

"What, you mean I have to get more than three or four hits?!?  Blasphemer!!"   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)


I dont know about "most" but that is exacly how I feel when I trade in my 151s for .50 cal. I never hit enough. Lots of accuracy but my shooting eye seems tuned to alot shorter bursts
Title: Late War Uberplanes
Post by: Toad on July 08, 2000, 04:57:00 PM
Fishu, or whoever you are playing as these days, how about supporting your "star wars lazer" comments?

Do you have full RL ballistic/trajectory data on the various MG's modeled in this game? Can you then compare this RL data to what we're getting here?

Or are you just making another totally unsupported comment?
Title: Late War Uberplanes
Post by: Staga on July 08, 2000, 06:17:00 PM
When I fly 109 (allmost everytime  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)) I take 30mm with me because I feel thats only weapon which have enough power to bring down other planes....
Hardest part is to come close enough to use it  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

If I just could have Hispanos in my G-10  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)

Staga II/JG2