Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: funked on July 06, 2000, 12:31:00 AM
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Jugs out turn it easily. This shouldn't be should it?
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Not in my experience. In Tour 5, I killed 12 jugs in a Yak, only dying to them twice. And those two deaths were when I was out of E, on the deck, and got bounced.
[This message has been edited by leonid (edited 07-06-2000).]
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Well maybe I just suck! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 07-06-2000).]
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you suck funked (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Recalibrate your stuff. In a Jug I don't like to see a Yak incoming to me.
-Westy
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Actually Funked, I think your right.
The turn rates of the Yak (especially to the right) seem very unimpressive and its prone to snaprolls.
Even using the worst of the two data points we have for this plane, it should be doing a turn time of 20 seconds.
Anyone timed it yet?
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
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I find it easy to stay on the tail of a P47 in the Yak9. I think that airspeed has alot to do with it, Jugs usually try to either dive away or at least perform evasive maneuvers while diving, so that lets the Yak9 build up some speed.
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They are very close. I found the yak to out-turn the 47 by about 1 second at a similar speed (150 mph). The yak turns to the right better than the left, it seems and the P-47 turned better to the left. The difference was 2 seconds for right hand turn (28s vs 30s)
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Interesting Wells.
Even the "production" Yak-9U had a published turn time of 20 seconds, and if you give a 10%-15% "slowdown" factor (to match the fact that most other planes are 10%-15% slow on turn times according to the comments on Laz's turn thread) which comes out to a 23 second turn, thats still at least 5 seconds off.
That means the Yak is over 20% too slow in sustained turn rate to the right, probably slightly less to the left.
Without the adjustment factor that means an error of almost 29%.
Quite significant IMO.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
[This message has been edited by Vermillion (edited 07-06-2000).]
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Vermillion 50% fuel right?
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I was very suprised how mediocre the yak-9 seems to turn. I expected something on par with the 205 or G-6. It seems to be in between the hog and pony to me.
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50% fuel ????
If your asking if that turn time number is for 50% fuel, not to my understanding.
It is quoted along with the other "production" performance numbers from Soviet Combat Aircraft of the Second World War, by Gordon and Khazanov, and these match the AH performance almost exactly.
And these numbers are for the standard 100% fuel (as far as I can tell). So I would assume the turn time performance number is for the same flight conditions (ie loadout) as for the max speed, max speed at altitude, climbrate, etc.
A good test is to see how the La-5fn compares in turn times within the game versus the published number. Since the La-5fn, like the Yak-9U, otherwise matches the "production" performance numbers from the same book.
The La5fn's turn time is suppose to be 19 seconds to the left. Anyone measured it in the game?
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
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Somebody told me the NII VVS stuff was done with 50% fuel.
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Yak-9 seems like some aerobatics leaf to me, it can fly controlled 80-120mph and do some serious deck level maneuvers, lol.
But what I think here, is that P-47D is too 'light', at least that what I've tested in offline, its like a 4 ton fighter. (everyone who knows weight of P47, can say that P47 is heavier and also pretty heavy, not that light to fly (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif))
Btw. folks, I don't think Yak9 is a turn plane, I feel that it is more for maneuvers, like one'o'nines.
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You are right about the last bit - Yak-9U wingloading is 38 lb/ft^2, nothing special. But a P-47 (47 lb/ft^2) should be easy meat in a turning battle.
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Don't you people know the USAAF had all P-47D-30's equipped with top secret, NACA developed, "turn-o-matic" wings? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Could there possibly be something wrong with the Jug turn rate rather than the Yak? Maybe I'm used to the Pork-Jug in WB's (Which I admit I never flew extensively) but the AH jug turns really good.
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Gents,
Think somethings wrong? Next time you in a dogfight with either a P-47 or Fw-190A5 try this. With bogie on your 6 start a high speed 90degree dive. Basically do a split 6 to evade the bounce. Keep the maneuver as tight as possible to prevent the A/C behind you from getting a shot. If he follows he should either blackout or overshoot leaving you with a shot. Right? Wrong, both these A/C seem immune to the split S and seem to be able to overcome their high wing loading to perform some maneuvers a Spit 9 couldn't follow you through. So basically I don't think it is the Yak that is undermodelled but the P-47 seems to have the same turn-O-matic that the A-5 has. Strange that the two A/C with the Highest wingloading in the game (47lbs and 44lbs) seem to be the best maneuvering? If anyone is looking for data on this one your going to have to test for yourself. I'm tired of trying to prove the earth is round. For now.
Later
F4UDOA
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I have not fight with you from the time YAK was added to the game, Leonid. I am sure it will be a hard fight. Right now I find yak not a hard opponent for spits, may be this will change when yak riders will get more expirience with the bird.
Fariz
XII Legion.
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Fishu, I agree that the Yak shouldn't be a TnB aircraft in the least, but it should be better than the P-51, P-47, A8, and probably the G10.
Right now its seems about the same, but thats why I ask others their opinon and if the turn tests have been done.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
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The plane I have the most trouble with in a Yak is the Fw 190A-5, because of its ability to quickly change direction via banking, ie split ess. However, once the fight gets on the deck the Focke Wulf is more approachable, since the Yak does scissors quite well too.
I don't have trouble with the P-51D, P-47, Fw 190A-8, and for the most part, the Bf 109G-10. A Yak can defeat the 109 in a rolling split ess contest, given similar E levels. None of these planes can shake a Yak off its tail, given similar pilot levels.
Planes that cause me to concentrate are the Spitfire IX, P-38 and N1K2, because of their good E-retention coupled with very good turn rates. While the Yak has superior E-characteristics to any of these three aircraft, it cannot conduct a sustained turnfight with them. Thus, fights with the P-38, Spit, and Niki are usually strict vertical affairs. However, a Yak will pull away from any of these three, given equal energy.
I have no trouble shooting down Zeros, since it's E-retention is so poor. The Zeke may turn very well, but its turn rate is quite slow, allowing for good snapshot opportunities.
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Originally posted by Vermillion:
Fishu, I agree that the Yak shouldn't be a TnB aircraft in the least, but it should be better than the P-51, P-47, A8, and probably the G10.
Right now its seems about the same, but thats why I ask others their opinon and if the turn tests have been done.
I do like maneuverability of Yak over the G10...
But P47 outturning, that sounds quite far off (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
(and Id say the mistake is in P47)
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What I would do is find out the actual turn times for both the P-47D and Yak-9U. Then, take the AH turn times, and see if the percentage difference of the two don't match. If they do match, percentage-wise, then it's okay. If not, it's a problem.