Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Karnak on April 30, 2001, 03:30:00 PM
-
I am trying to find how much ammo was carried by the Mosquito FB.MkVI.
I have only found two sources that even given an ammunition count and they don't agree with one another.
The two ammunition claims I have found are:
4 .303 Browning machine guns: 2000 rounds each, total of 8000 rounds
4 20mm Hispano MkII cannon: 300 rounds each, total of 1200 rounds
Or:
4 .303 Browning machine guns: 750 rounds each, total of 3000 rounds
4 20mm Hispano MkII cannon: 150 rounds each, total of 600 rounds
To me the first one seems a bit heavy on the 303 ammo, although I find the cannon ammo load to be believable. The second seems a bit light for an aircraft the size of a Mosquito.
Can anybody tell me what the ammo load on the Mosquito FB.VI is?
Thanks
The ordanance loadout options seems to be:
Bomb Bay:2 250lb bombs or 2 500lb short finned bombs
Under Wing: 2 250lb bombs, 2 500lb bombs, 8 60lb rockets or droptanks.
It isn't clear if the rockets are on a separate mount from the bombs/droptanks. If they are that would help the Mosquito's versatility.
------------------
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Spitfire F.MkXIVc to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
-
Nope 9200 ounds total is what I see as a option as well.
------------------
(http://members.home.net/cgoolsby6/sachs1.jpg)
[This message has been edited by AG Sachsenberg (edited 04-30-2001).]
[This message has been edited by AG Sachsenberg (edited 04-30-2001).]
-
Hi Karnak
I'm certain it's the first choice you stated (8000rds .303 load).
Check with Snafu, he has the Mosquito AP/pilot notes.
Regards
Nexx
-
I got the first number from one of my books (all my other books gleefully inform me that it has 4 .303s and 4 Hispano 20mm cannon, but don't say anything about the ammunition) and found a site on the internet with thos numbers as well, but they looked to be copied verbatum from the book I have, so I disregarded that as a source.
The source for the 2nd, lower ammount of ammunition was WarBirds 2.77.
BTW, If I had the book here, I'd have posted its title, author and publisher, but I am at work. (Things are FUBARed here today)
------------------
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Spitfire F.MkXIVc to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
-
Even in short bursts I'd be suprised if the .303 Browning could fire 2000 rounds without jamming.
ra
-
ra,
If the 2000 rounds per .303 is the correct number, and that seems to be the direction everybody is leaning, I would highly doubt if any Mosquito ever fired ALL of its .303 ammo on a combat sortie.
------------------
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Spitfire F.MkXIVc to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
[This message has been edited by Karnak (edited 04-30-2001).]
-
Mosquito with guns, my second favorite plane after the P47 bubble.
-
8000 rounds of .303, utterly amazing, tho I must honestly ask what the hell are all they for? Arent 1200rds of 20mm enough?
-
One mossie could probably de-ack the entire map with that ammo load... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
-
Originally posted by Replicant:
Hi Karnak
I'm certain it's the first choice you stated (8000rds .303 load).
Check with Snafu, he has the Mosquito AP/pilot notes.
Regards
Nexx
Hi Karnak,
Sadly the Pilots notes tell me how to fly the thing (Useful next time I'm up in a mossie and the pilot is taken ill) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) but give no reference to loadouts. I understand the original spec of the FB VI series II was for a 2,000 Bomb load but usually only the loadout you mention was actually carried and the front portion of the bombay was used to carry ammo for the .303's & hispano's The only ammo loads I have seen are the higher of the 2 in your post.
If you want to start a Mosquito for AH club tell me where I send my subscription (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
TTFN
snafu
-
Originally posted by ra:
Even in short bursts I'd be suprised if the .303 Browning could fire 2000 rounds without jamming.
ra
Irrelevant in AH do to guns not jamming.
------------------
(http://members.home.net/cgoolsby6/sachs1.jpg)
Verkaaft's mei Gwand `I foahr in himmel!
Sell my clothes I am going to Heaven!
[This message has been edited by AG Sachsenberg (edited 05-01-2001).]
-
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ:
8000 rounds of .303, utterly amazing, tho I must honestly ask what the hell are all they for? Arent 1200rds of 20mm enough?
The .303s were tracer rounds and were used to assist aiming the 20mm cannons against ships/boats and ground targets such as soft targets/troup columns etc.
Regards
Nexx
-
Mosquito FB VI serie i (FB=fighter bomber):
4x .303 MGs (no info about ammo load)
4x 20mm Hispano (also no info about ammo load)
2x 250 lbs. bombs internal
external:
2x 250 lbs. bombs or
2x 227 l droptanks
Mosquito FB VI serie ii:
4x .303 MGs
4x 20mm Hispano
internal and external bomload doubled (1000 lbs internal and 1000 lbs external)
alternative external load:
2x 455 l droptanks or
2x 4 rockets
Bomber versions had no guns
Fastest war-time Mosquito:
NF XXX (NF=nightfighter) 682 kph, radar instead of .303 MGs
FB XVIII Tsetse:
FB VI with 1 Molins 57mm cannon (25 rounds), 4 .303 MGs and 8 rockets
-
Karnak,
According to a book on Mosquitos in Australian service, the FB.VI has the following armanent:
Four 20mm Hispano cannon with 150rpg
Four 0.303 Browning Mk.II mg with 500rpg
two 250lb or 500lb bombs in bomb bay
or
eight 60lb rockets or two 250lb or 500lb bombs under wings
or
drop tanks in lieu of underwing armanent.
Hope this helps
[edited to correct my numerous typos]
------------------
"That was some of the best flying I've seen yet, right up until the point where you got killed."
[This message has been edited by Hammer Head (edited 05-01-2001).]
-
Hammer Head,
Hmm. That's interesting. You're the only one to post lower numbers. Not saying you're wrong, just coming with different info.
Your ordinance seems off according to Snafu's pilot handbook for the Mosquito 6, it makes reference to having both droptanks and rockets. Says not to fire the rockets while tanks are attached or for 1 minute after they are dropped.
I do have trouble believing that an aircraft the size of the Mosquito only carried 150 rounds for each 20mm cannon while the F4U-1C and N1K2 carry 231 per cannon and 225 per cannon respectively (ammo loads averaged). I also have some trouble believing that the Mosquito carried 500 rounds of .303 for 4 guns in larger bins than the P-38 carried 500 rounds of .50 ammo for 4 guns.
It could be correct, but as somebody who hopes to fly the Mosquito FB.MkVI Series 2 I sure hope it has the larger ammo load.
------------------
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Mosquito FB.MkVI Series 2 to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
-
I'd guess that the smaller ammo load is probably a common load used to reduce weight, while the larger one is the absolute capacity.
-
OK, here are the number's I have:
1) 300 rounds for each of the 4 Hispano 20mm cannon and 2,000 rounds for each of the 4 .303 machine guns. From one of my books.
2) 250 rounds for each of the 4 Hispano 20mm cannon and 1,000 rounds for each of the 4 .303 machine guns. From another one of my books.
3) 150 rounds for each of the 4 Hispano 20mm cannon and 750 rounds for each of the 4 .303 machine guns. From WarBirds 2.77.
4) 150 rounds for each of the 4 Hispano 20mm cannon and 500 rounds for each of the 4 .303 machine guns. From Hammer Head's book on the Australian version of the Mosquito FB.VI.
The general consensus is that Option 1 is correct, on this board and on the SimHQ EAW board and NightBomber board. However, the general consensus has been known to be wrong.
Does anybody have any info on which of these is correct, or is it something else altogether?
------------------
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Mosquito FB.MkVI Series 2 to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
-
My guide concurs with your first numbers:
four 20mm Hispano cannons, 300 rounds each under the floor
four .303in Brownings with 200 rounds each in the nose
2 250lb bombs rear bay
2 250lb (later 500lb) bombs on wing racks
alternatively 50 or 100lb drop tanks, mines, depth charges or eight 60lb rockets
Incidentally, what may account for the different numbers - the book indicates that the Mosquito FB. VI were built by many factories, including Canada and Australia, "with minor differences".
[This message has been edited by Nethawk (edited 05-26-2001).]
-
Two books I have on the subject
"Mosquito" (Sharp & Bowyer foreworded by Sir Geoffrey)
and a some what less reliable but more picturesque
"Mosquito" (Sweetman illustrations by Watanabe)
Both concurr with 4 x 20mm @ 300 rnds each and 4 x .303 @ 2000 rnds each for the MkVI.
In addition to the 2 x 500llb internals and 2 x 500llb wing bombs.
When not carrying wing bombs it could carry 4 x 25llb armour piercing or 4 x 60llb "semi" armour piercing rockets per wing.
Alternatively the the wing could be fitted with a profiled "dump" tank.
Tilt
-
i believe that mossies carried torps back in the war. also, it would be great to see the sea mosquito in the game!
-
Be aware of typos.
2000 for "each" 303 was probably 500 rounds per gun. 4 x 500= 2000 rnds total, not each.
Typos like that are common in many books.
I find it unlikely the RAF thought a Mossie ever needed more than 800 rnds for a 303 on board (max load), even for anti-shipping or ground attack, its more than twice what a Spit or Hurricane would carry (300 rpg).
As for the rockets, the schematics clearly show that with a rocket load the wing pylons were not available for use, like the Typhoon. The internal bomb bay would still be available for use however.
-
Egads this is an ancient thread.
I have long since obtained the real numbers. I emailed the RAF Museum and they told me what was in the armorers handbooks. I forwarded that email to Pyro and it is what we have in AH.
Standard:
150rpg for the 20mm
500rpg for the .303s
Overload:
175rpg for the 20mm
780rpg for the .303s
HTC may have had another source as well, but so far as I know I provided that data.
-
Karnak, did you know of this place?
http://www.dehavillandmuseum.co.uk/
-
Geez, I didnt even think to look at the date.
I was wondering why you were bringing it up Karnak, hehe. Oh well, no harm.
-
300 rpg x4 hispanos in the nose.... oh boy :)
500 rpg for the 303 is enough to kill every chute you see in an entire tour.
Bozon
-
300 rpg for 20mm
No flame dampers
FM fixed
Zippo tendencies eliminated
PERK THE MOSSIE!!! :D
-
It did not have 300rpg.
The cannon ammo was held in two containers of 300 rounds with two cannons drawing from each container.
Some author at some point saw the 300 rounds in each container and assumed that each cannon had it's own container. That is false.
It is, as I listed above, 150rpg or an overload of 175rpg.
-
Originally posted by Squire
As for the rockets, the schematics clearly show that with a rocket load the wing pylons were not available for use, like the Typhoon.
That is not correct.
Double-row rocket rails (2 up, 2 down) could be fitted outboard of the drop tanks. As noted above, the drop tanks needed to be got rid of at least one minute ahead of firing the rockets.
-
For the "full meal deal" load you can't have rockets and wing pylons, but I have seen the 2 RP and DT/bomb load for both the Tiffie and Mossie, but those arent AH2 loads.
When they get around to redoing them, it wouldnt be a bad suggestion to add that loadout though.
-
Squire,
The Mossie could take 8 rockets, two 500lb bombs and the DTs. That was only later when the improved rocket rails that stacked them came into service though.
The rails like we have in AH block it.
-
I think we're agreeing to agree then.
-
Just found a photo of the stacked rockets for the Mossie FB VI, so it was 8 plus DT and or bombs after all, when configured as such. Was a Banff Strike Wing bird, 1945, according to the pic.
Dunno if the Tiffie had that option. The photo I have shows 2 rockets per wing (standard rails) and a DT. Interesting.
...In any case, when they get around to redoing them, we could ask for the long range rocket config for both Tiffie and Mossie, would be kinda cool. :aok
-
"FM fixed"
What kind of issues does it have?
-C+
-
Originally posted by Karnak
It did not have 300rpg.
The cannon ammo was held in two containers of 300 rounds with two cannons drawing from each container.
Some author at some point saw the 300 rounds in each container and assumed that each cannon had it's own container. That is false.
It is, as I listed above, 150rpg or an overload of 175rpg.
I was aware of that Karnak. It was a sad attempt at humor.
I still find the Mossie a fascinating aircraft though and would like to see the (historically accurate) extra speed. As a fighter it bleeds energy too much though but the armament package is woooonderful. WhenI stick with it for a while I usually manage to land a few kills.
-
The E bleed in AH has always struck me as odd actually. In designing the Mossie and test flying it De Havilland was persistantly worried about it not being able to slow down not, as we have in AH, having trouble keeping speed.
They considered a hydrolic operated frill airbrake for a time, but decided against it as lowering the landing gear had much the same effect.
-
Originally posted by Charge
"FM fixed"
What kind of issues does it have?
-C+
The center of gravity is off, HTC is aware of this, and as AH is a daytime sim environment having a Mossie VI geared for night combat ops makes no sense, so we hope to get a Mossie VI geared for daylight ops. The difference would be about 15mph greater speed.
-
Originally posted by Karnak
The E bleed in AH has always struck me as odd actually. In designing the Mossie and test flying it De Havilland was persistantly worried about it not being able to slow down not, as we have in AH, having trouble keeping speed.
They considered a hydrolic operated frill airbrake for a time, but decided against it as lowering the landing gear had much the same effect.
It had me wondering too, but what do I know :(
Are there combat trails of the Mossie against contemporary fighters? Asked that before but never seen them.
-
would love to see the tse tse's 57mm in AH, (25 rounds)
to go pop some tanks.
Other games have it...
Bruv
~S~
-
As the others have said, the mossie was an incredibly 'clean' aerodynamic aircraft.
Also, the radiators were hidden in the wing root like the Tempest II which reduced drag.
(http://www.milairpix.com/mil_planes/mosquito.jpg)
(http://1000aircraftphotos.com/MilitaryProp/978B.jpg)
(http://www.home.gil.com.au/~bfillery/tmk3-1.jpg)
Like Supermarine.... DeHavilland also had a history of building successful racing aircraft :)
(http://www.dhmothclub.co.uk/pixbin/comet-x.JPG)
-
Like the P-51, the Mossie's radiators actually produced a net gain in thrust over drag. Those are the only two WWII aircraft I know of that had that feature.
-
Originally posted by Furball
Also, the radiators were hidden in the wing root like the Tempest II which reduced drag.
The Temepst II was powered by an aircooled radial. The only radiator it had was the oil cooler.
-
The corsair and sea fury also had leading-edge oil coolers.