Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Strip on June 21, 2009, 12:44:30 PM

Title: Wiki Speed and Climb Charts (P-51B)
Post by: Strip on June 21, 2009, 12:44:30 PM
I have noticed some planes will not achieve the speeds listed in the charts. Like a P-51B will not maintain 400 mph at 30,000 feet. The chart, however, has it listed close to 450 mph?

Weight was identical and no droptanks.....

Thoughts?

(Is the air speed indicator in knots?)

Strip
Title: Re: Wiki Speed and Climb Charts
Post by: Angus on June 21, 2009, 12:55:14 PM
AFAIK the indicator would be in MPH. Are you sure that you are reading TAS?
Title: Re: Wiki Speed and Climb Charts
Post by: Strip on June 21, 2009, 12:56:29 PM
Ground speed and true airspeed....
Title: Re: Wiki Speed and Climb Charts
Post by: thrila on June 21, 2009, 12:56:35 PM
oops! ignore my post
Title: Re: Wiki Speed and Climb Charts
Post by: Strip on June 21, 2009, 01:07:30 PM
Does the P-51B have permanant racks for dt's?

IE Speed after droptanks jettisoned is equal to clean speed.
Title: Re: Wiki Speed and Climb Charts
Post by: Widewing on June 21, 2009, 04:11:32 PM
Does the P-51B have permanant racks for dt's?

IE Speed after droptanks jettisoned is equal to clean speed.

Strip is right... The P-51B does not conform (not even close) to the Aces High speed chart at 30K for MIL power.

Measured max speed @ 30k
Military Power: 394 mph TAS (36 mph too slow)
Combat Power: 443 mph TAS (about right)

All of this is due to incorrect tables for MAP. The P-51B should pull about 48" MAP in MIL power at 30k. In game, it pulls only 27".

Pyro, this is a significant error.


My regards,

Widewing
Title: Re: Wiki Speed and Climb Charts
Post by: Strip on June 21, 2009, 09:10:02 PM
Strip is right... The P-51B does not conform (not even close) to the Aces High speed chart at 30K for MIL power.

Measured max speed @ 30k
Military Power: 394 mph TAS (36 mph too slow)
Combat Power: 443 mph TAS (about right)

All of this is due to incorrect tables for MAP. The P-51B should pull about 48" MAP in MIL power at 30k. In game, it pulls only 27".

Pyro, this is a significant error.


My regards,

Widewing

      Its interesting to note that I can pull 32.5" at military power at 30,000 feet along with only TAS of 391. I let mine settle for a good ten minutes so that might affect speed readings. However your getting 4.5 inches (+/- .5" or so) less than me.  Why is there a difference? You didnt put your WEP manifold but I pulled 50.5" (+/- .1" or so).

For clarity...... carrying dt's (and dropping them) shouldnt effect the drag profile of the P-51B correct?

Strips
Title: Re: Wiki Speed and Climb Charts (P-51B)
Post by: Pyro on June 22, 2009, 12:47:17 PM
Interesting, it looks like it's not making full power at high alts for some reason.  I'll take a look at what's causing the problem.
Title: Re: Wiki Speed and Climb Charts (P-51B)
Post by: Die Hard on June 22, 2009, 01:21:42 PM
(http://toolmonger.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/post-wd40.jpg)

 ;)
Title: Re: Wiki Speed and Climb Charts
Post by: Widewing on June 22, 2009, 10:05:18 PM
      Its interesting to note that I can pull 32.5" at military power at 30,000 feet along with only TAS of 391. I let mine settle for a good ten minutes so that might affect speed readings. However your getting 4.5 inches (+/- .5" or so) less than me.  Why is there a difference? You didnt put your WEP manifold but I pulled 50.5" (+/- .1" or so).

For clarity...... carrying dt's (and dropping them) shouldnt effect the drag profile of the P-51B correct?

Strips

HTC models RAM. At 20 mph TAS on the 30k runway, MAP is 27". At 394 mph, MAP is 32.5".  I also see a tad over 50" in WEP at 443 mph. I filmed the test flight.

You are correct.. P-51 pylon drag is part of the basic drag. The pylons are not optional. Same rules apply for the P-47s, P-38s and several others.


My regards,

Widewing
Title: Re: Wiki Speed and Climb Charts (P-51B)
Post by: Widewing on June 22, 2009, 10:25:21 PM
Note also that the P-51D pulls 46" MAP at 20 mph TAS @ 30k, and a bit over 50" MAP at 424 mph @ 30k. There is no WEP related increase in MAP at 30k. Considering that the P-51B's V1650-3 used a supercharger geared for better high altitude performance, this brings the issue into bold relief. Critical altitude for the P-51D is 25k. Above 25K, the P-51B should be faster than the P-51D at both MIL power and WEP (combat) power.

My regards,

Widewing
Title: Re: Wiki Speed and Climb Charts (P-51B)
Post by: pokecheck on June 28, 2009, 10:12:16 AM
(http://toolmonger.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/post-wd40.jpg)

 ;)
 
Dude, WD-40 stops squeaks.I think I've solved our problems, just coat the forums in the stuff.
Title: Re: Wiki Speed and Climb Charts (P-51B)
Post by: Odee on July 16, 2009, 11:12:40 PM
 
Dude, WD-40 stops squeaks.I think I've solved our problems, just coat the forums in the stuff.
  Also great for cooking with
 :rofl :rofl
Title: Re: Wiki Speed and Climb Charts (P-51B)
Post by: vonKrimm on July 17, 2009, 09:51:23 AM
Interesting, it looks like it's not making full power at high alts for some reason.  I'll take a look at what's causing the problem.

Pyro, any update on this matter?
Title: Re: Wiki Speed and Climb Charts (P-51B)
Post by: Strip on July 17, 2009, 10:31:41 AM
No Pyro but its fixed for beta....

Tested it myself.
Title: Re: Wiki Speed and Climb Charts (P-51B)
Post by: R 105 on July 22, 2009, 10:00:39 AM
See Rule #4 (trolling)
Title: Re: Wiki Speed and Climb Charts (P-51B)
Post by: Stoney on July 22, 2009, 11:23:26 AM
See Rule #4 (trolling)

Oh boy...   :uhoh
Title: Re: Wiki Speed and Climb Charts (P-51B)
Post by: Strip on July 22, 2009, 12:49:39 PM
   I think the real problem is that some people havent learned them well enough. Not to long ago I could turn fight most spits without a problem. Even if the pilot was good enough to beat me I  could extend away.

The P-51B is way under rated as a turn plane.....
Title: Re: Wiki Speed and Climb Charts (P-51B)
Post by: R 105 on July 22, 2009, 02:58:47 PM
See Rule #4 (trolling)
Title: Re: Wiki Speed and Climb Charts (P-51B)
Post by: Strip on July 22, 2009, 08:28:05 PM
See Rule #4 (trolling)

Where are these facts you speak of?
Title: Re: Wiki Speed and Climb Charts (P-51B)
Post by: Steve on July 23, 2009, 03:12:31 AM
Where are these facts you speak of?

Yes.. what "facts"? I love speed charts... I always learn something.

 While I think the pony got a raw deal on one of the updates(flap effectivenes was porked, Widewing could provide details) you should be careful what you wish for. What I mean is:  what if the ponies were indeed made faster in game and their turn radii significantly improved?  You'd have an uber plane which would unbalance the game, IMHO. 

As far as the late war rides go, the pony isn't particularly exceptional(overall) but it does just fine in the MA. Its' 1.0+ K/D is a fair testament to this. It manages a positive K/D in spite of the fact that very very few people make use of its potential and many noobs fly it. I'm a big fan of the pony and would like to see its'  turn performance tweaked a little but I feel that any significant change in turn and speed numbers would result in a monster of a plane... sort of like a -4  Hog  but with better range and views...heheheh  sort of.  I speak only of ingame impact and make no claims at being a real life expert on any airplane.    :salute


Steve
Title: Re: Wiki Speed and Climb Charts (P-51B)
Post by: Strip on July 23, 2009, 07:21:51 PM
As far as the late war rides go, the pony isn't particularly exceptional(overall) but it does just fine in the MA.

Top 5 speed at most altitudes......good climb....great endurance......excellent high speed characteristics.

Whats not to love.....get in the B and you will even have good turn rate.
Title: Re: Wiki Speed and Climb Charts (P-51B)
Post by: eddiek on July 23, 2009, 07:31:08 PM

I think what they are getting at is the P-51B isn't putting out full power at alt.  Pyro even chimed in and commented on it.
I don't or didn't normally fly the D model, but when I did it was one sweet ride.  Don't think it's under- or over-modelled at all.
Title: Re: Wiki Speed and Climb Charts (P-51B)
Post by: Strip on July 23, 2009, 07:34:52 PM
I think what they are getting at is the P-51B isn't putting out full power at alt.  Pyro even chimed in and commented on it.
I don't or didn't normally fly the D model, but when I did it was one sweet ride.  Don't think it's under- or over-modelled at all.

Fixed for Beta
Title: Re: Wiki Speed and Climb Charts (P-51B)
Post by: dtango on July 23, 2009, 09:06:19 PM
Part of this problem with both the P-51B and the D is it is under modeled in AH.

Me thinks part of the problem is that people don't know what they're talking about ;).

And no, I'd rather not go through the discussion because we've been around this topic ad nauseum here.   :rolleyes:

Tango
412th FS Braunco Mustangs
Title: Re: Wiki Speed and Climb Charts (P-51B)
Post by: Steve on July 23, 2009, 09:19:03 PM
Top 5 speed at most altitudes......good climb....great endurance......excellent high speed characteristics.

Whats not to love.....

Hehe, never said I didn't love it.  :)

Good climb??   nah.
Title: Re: Wiki Speed and Climb Charts (P-51B)
Post by: RTHolmes on July 24, 2009, 04:16:56 AM
climbs ok, just not great. Ive only ever flown the pony for occasional squad sweeps (probably 1 sortie a month) usually landing with a couple of assists only, so decided I should spend some time in it this tour, seeing as its the most popular AH ride and an icon too.

taken me a couple of weeks to start to get the hang of it, the one thing that strikes me is that its nowhere near as bad a turner as some make out. I flew the corsair for a tour recently so got used to really working flaps (new for me as I usually fly typh, spit8, 190) which has helped alot. if anything at higher speeds the pony seems to benefit more from flaps than the corsair, I'm using a notch pretty much any time I manouver. of course at lower speeds the corsair is the flap king :)

the one problem for me because there are so many in the MA is that you end up fighting other ponies alot, made me realise how much I rely on exploiting the differences between aircraft in a fight, with identical aircraft its easy for a fight to end up as stalemate. that and the runstang comments :D

overall I like it :aok
Title: Re: Wiki Speed and Climb Charts (P-51B)
Post by: Strip on July 24, 2009, 08:31:35 AM
The secret to the P-51 (imho) is keeping it light by taking less fuel. You should make use of the Mustangs incredible range. At max cruise (clean) you can maintain 400 mph at 17,000 feet. Thats faster than a lot of fighters full throttle. My usual sortie in the MA took off with 50% and a single DT.
Title: Re: Wiki Speed and Climb Charts (P-51B)
Post by: R 105 on July 24, 2009, 03:42:51 PM
See Rule #4 (trolling)
Title: Re: Wiki Speed and Climb Charts (P-51B)
Post by: Lusche on July 24, 2009, 03:54:22 PM
See Rule #4 (trolling)

We are still waiting for facts & hard data. What performance are you exactly talking about?

Quote
See Rule #4 (trolling)

And the T34 was still in service in cuba and other 3rd world / eastern bloc countries. Your point is?
Title: Re: Wiki Speed and Climb Charts (P-51B)
Post by: Yeager on July 27, 2009, 04:08:10 PM
Thanks for pointing this out strip. 
Title: Re: Wiki Speed and Climb Charts (P-51B)
Post by: Strip on July 27, 2009, 06:49:05 PM
Thanks for pointing this out strip. 

No problem.... <S>
Title: Re: Wiki Speed and Climb Charts (P-51B)
Post by: WWhiskey on July 27, 2009, 07:00:33 PM
We are still waiting for facts & hard data. What performance are you exactly talking about?

And the T34 was still in service in cuba and other 3rd world / eastern bloc countries. Your point is?
so with a handfull of vintage tigers, we could capture cuba?
 kool :noid