Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Strip on June 21, 2009, 12:44:30 PM
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I have noticed some planes will not achieve the speeds listed in the charts. Like a P-51B will not maintain 400 mph at 30,000 feet. The chart, however, has it listed close to 450 mph?
Weight was identical and no droptanks.....
Thoughts?
(Is the air speed indicator in knots?)
Strip
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AFAIK the indicator would be in MPH. Are you sure that you are reading TAS?
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Ground speed and true airspeed....
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oops! ignore my post
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Does the P-51B have permanant racks for dt's?
IE Speed after droptanks jettisoned is equal to clean speed.
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Does the P-51B have permanant racks for dt's?
IE Speed after droptanks jettisoned is equal to clean speed.
Strip is right... The P-51B does not conform (not even close) to the Aces High speed chart at 30K for MIL power.
Measured max speed @ 30k
Military Power: 394 mph TAS (36 mph too slow)
Combat Power: 443 mph TAS (about right)
All of this is due to incorrect tables for MAP. The P-51B should pull about 48" MAP in MIL power at 30k. In game, it pulls only 27".
Pyro, this is a significant error.
My regards,
Widewing
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Strip is right... The P-51B does not conform (not even close) to the Aces High speed chart at 30K for MIL power.
Measured max speed @ 30k
Military Power: 394 mph TAS (36 mph too slow)
Combat Power: 443 mph TAS (about right)
All of this is due to incorrect tables for MAP. The P-51B should pull about 48" MAP in MIL power at 30k. In game, it pulls only 27".
Pyro, this is a significant error.
My regards,
Widewing
Its interesting to note that I can pull 32.5" at military power at 30,000 feet along with only TAS of 391. I let mine settle for a good ten minutes so that might affect speed readings. However your getting 4.5 inches (+/- .5" or so) less than me. Why is there a difference? You didnt put your WEP manifold but I pulled 50.5" (+/- .1" or so).
For clarity...... carrying dt's (and dropping them) shouldnt effect the drag profile of the P-51B correct?
Strips
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Interesting, it looks like it's not making full power at high alts for some reason. I'll take a look at what's causing the problem.
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(http://toolmonger.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/post-wd40.jpg)
;)
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Its interesting to note that I can pull 32.5" at military power at 30,000 feet along with only TAS of 391. I let mine settle for a good ten minutes so that might affect speed readings. However your getting 4.5 inches (+/- .5" or so) less than me. Why is there a difference? You didnt put your WEP manifold but I pulled 50.5" (+/- .1" or so).
For clarity...... carrying dt's (and dropping them) shouldnt effect the drag profile of the P-51B correct?
Strips
HTC models RAM. At 20 mph TAS on the 30k runway, MAP is 27". At 394 mph, MAP is 32.5". I also see a tad over 50" in WEP at 443 mph. I filmed the test flight.
You are correct.. P-51 pylon drag is part of the basic drag. The pylons are not optional. Same rules apply for the P-47s, P-38s and several others.
My regards,
Widewing
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Note also that the P-51D pulls 46" MAP at 20 mph TAS @ 30k, and a bit over 50" MAP at 424 mph @ 30k. There is no WEP related increase in MAP at 30k. Considering that the P-51B's V1650-3 used a supercharger geared for better high altitude performance, this brings the issue into bold relief. Critical altitude for the P-51D is 25k. Above 25K, the P-51B should be faster than the P-51D at both MIL power and WEP (combat) power.
My regards,
Widewing
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(http://toolmonger.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/post-wd40.jpg)
;)
Dude, WD-40 stops squeaks.I think I've solved our problems, just coat the forums in the stuff.
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Dude, WD-40 stops squeaks.I think I've solved our problems, just coat the forums in the stuff.
Also great for cooking with
:rofl :rofl
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Interesting, it looks like it's not making full power at high alts for some reason. I'll take a look at what's causing the problem.
Pyro, any update on this matter?
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No Pyro but its fixed for beta....
Tested it myself.
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See Rule #4 (trolling)
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See Rule #4 (trolling)
Oh boy... :uhoh
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I think the real problem is that some people havent learned them well enough. Not to long ago I could turn fight most spits without a problem. Even if the pilot was good enough to beat me I could extend away.
The P-51B is way under rated as a turn plane.....
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See Rule #4 (trolling)
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See Rule #4 (trolling)
Where are these facts you speak of?
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Where are these facts you speak of?
Yes.. what "facts"? I love speed charts... I always learn something.
While I think the pony got a raw deal on one of the updates(flap effectivenes was porked, Widewing could provide details) you should be careful what you wish for. What I mean is: what if the ponies were indeed made faster in game and their turn radii significantly improved? You'd have an uber plane which would unbalance the game, IMHO.
As far as the late war rides go, the pony isn't particularly exceptional(overall) but it does just fine in the MA. Its' 1.0+ K/D is a fair testament to this. It manages a positive K/D in spite of the fact that very very few people make use of its potential and many noobs fly it. I'm a big fan of the pony and would like to see its' turn performance tweaked a little but I feel that any significant change in turn and speed numbers would result in a monster of a plane... sort of like a -4 Hog but with better range and views...heheheh sort of. I speak only of ingame impact and make no claims at being a real life expert on any airplane. :salute
Steve
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As far as the late war rides go, the pony isn't particularly exceptional(overall) but it does just fine in the MA.
Top 5 speed at most altitudes......good climb....great endurance......excellent high speed characteristics.
Whats not to love.....get in the B and you will even have good turn rate.
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I think what they are getting at is the P-51B isn't putting out full power at alt. Pyro even chimed in and commented on it.
I don't or didn't normally fly the D model, but when I did it was one sweet ride. Don't think it's under- or over-modelled at all.
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I think what they are getting at is the P-51B isn't putting out full power at alt. Pyro even chimed in and commented on it.
I don't or didn't normally fly the D model, but when I did it was one sweet ride. Don't think it's under- or over-modelled at all.
Fixed for Beta
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Part of this problem with both the P-51B and the D is it is under modeled in AH.
Me thinks part of the problem is that people don't know what they're talking about ;).
And no, I'd rather not go through the discussion because we've been around this topic ad nauseum here. :rolleyes:
Tango
412th FS Braunco Mustangs
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Top 5 speed at most altitudes......good climb....great endurance......excellent high speed characteristics.
Whats not to love.....
Hehe, never said I didn't love it. :)
Good climb?? nah.
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climbs ok, just not great. Ive only ever flown the pony for occasional squad sweeps (probably 1 sortie a month) usually landing with a couple of assists only, so decided I should spend some time in it this tour, seeing as its the most popular AH ride and an icon too.
taken me a couple of weeks to start to get the hang of it, the one thing that strikes me is that its nowhere near as bad a turner as some make out. I flew the corsair for a tour recently so got used to really working flaps (new for me as I usually fly typh, spit8, 190) which has helped alot. if anything at higher speeds the pony seems to benefit more from flaps than the corsair, I'm using a notch pretty much any time I manouver. of course at lower speeds the corsair is the flap king :)
the one problem for me because there are so many in the MA is that you end up fighting other ponies alot, made me realise how much I rely on exploiting the differences between aircraft in a fight, with identical aircraft its easy for a fight to end up as stalemate. that and the runstang comments :D
overall I like it :aok
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The secret to the P-51 (imho) is keeping it light by taking less fuel. You should make use of the Mustangs incredible range. At max cruise (clean) you can maintain 400 mph at 17,000 feet. Thats faster than a lot of fighters full throttle. My usual sortie in the MA took off with 50% and a single DT.
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See Rule #4 (trolling)
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See Rule #4 (trolling)
We are still waiting for facts & hard data. What performance are you exactly talking about?
See Rule #4 (trolling)
And the T34 was still in service in cuba and other 3rd world / eastern bloc countries. Your point is?
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Thanks for pointing this out strip.
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Thanks for pointing this out strip.
No problem.... <S>
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We are still waiting for facts & hard data. What performance are you exactly talking about?
And the T34 was still in service in cuba and other 3rd world / eastern bloc countries. Your point is?
so with a handfull of vintage tigers, we could capture cuba?
kool :noid