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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Unit791 on June 23, 2009, 11:25:03 PM

Title: Kozhedub's Pictures
Post by: Unit791 on June 23, 2009, 11:25:03 PM
Well earlier today I was looking up some things on Russian WW2 aces, and came across Ivan Kozhedub.  Evidently, at some point in the war, he encountered 2 P-51 Mustangs (American ones mind you) and shot them both down.  I had no idea what to think of this, so I went deeper into it.  Apparently, there is proof of this, in the form of pictures that belonged to Ivan.  Here is the link to them- http://img224.echo.cx/img224/4439/ko...ncamera5kx.jpg (http://img224.echo.cx/img224/4439/ko...ncamera5kx.jpg).  But there is some speculation that this may not be as it seems, maybe these pics are not Russian...but German.  And I know some of you out there are perhaps even more airplane crazy than me, so I would like to see your opinions on this.
Title: Re: Kozhedub's Pictures
Post by: oakranger on June 24, 2009, 02:39:20 AM
when and where would a russian have contact with american A/C? 
Title: Re: Kozhedub's Pictures
Post by: straffo on June 24, 2009, 04:16:46 AM
Over Berlin for exemple
Title: Re: Kozhedub's Pictures
Post by: Captfish on June 24, 2009, 07:28:54 AM
this link doesn't work for me  :cry
Title: Re: Kozhedub's Pictures
Post by: SirFrancis on June 24, 2009, 07:48:46 AM
this link doesn't work for me  :cry

nor for me  :frown:
Title: Re: Kozhedub's Pictures
Post by: Ponyace on June 24, 2009, 08:13:22 AM
when and where would a russian have contact with american A/C? 

That late in the war, there was a strategy the U.S.A.A.F. used called shuttle bombing. Bombers would take off from Italy or Britain, bomb targets deep in Berlin, and then fly on and land in the Soviet Union.

Here is the wikipedia link:Shuttle Bombing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuttle_bombing)

Another good one: U.S.A.A.F and Shuttle Bombing (http://www.usaaf.net/ww2/atlanticwall/awpg8.htm)

It would be entirely possible for the American aircraft to encounter Russian aircraft deep on the Eastern Front.
Title: Re: Kozhedub's Pictures
Post by: Unit791 on June 24, 2009, 08:45:04 AM
Yes, and this instance I am talking about is probably the most famous unproven run-in between Russian and American pilots that wasn't necessarily friendly.  Try this link-http://model.otaku.ru/1/kozhedub_guncamera.jpg (http://model.otaku.ru/1/kozhedub_guncamera.jpg)
Title: Re: Kozhedub's Pictures
Post by: Die Hard on June 24, 2009, 10:58:43 AM
Russians used Zeiss Ikon cameras? I think not.
Title: Re: Kozhedub's Pictures
Post by: Unit791 on June 24, 2009, 01:37:50 PM
Still, these photos originally belonged to Kohezedub, perhaps the Soviets used captured German cameras?
Title: Re: Kozhedub's Pictures
Post by: hubsonfire on June 24, 2009, 02:13:39 PM
oops
Title: Re: Kozhedub's Pictures
Post by: hubsonfire on June 24, 2009, 02:15:10 PM
stupid forums
Title: Re: Kozhedub's Pictures
Post by: hubsonfire on June 24, 2009, 02:16:17 PM
I'm sure that's what it is. Ignore that, and that the "gun camera" frames appear to be printed drawings.
Title: Re: Kozhedub's Pictures
Post by: Slash27 on June 24, 2009, 03:04:05 PM
Russians used Zeiss Ikon cameras? I think not.

Minor detail I guess.
Title: Re: Kozhedub's Pictures
Post by: Unit791 on June 24, 2009, 08:12:55 PM
I'm sure that's what it is. Ignore that, and that the "gun camera" frames appear to be printed drawings.

.....Take another look.....
Title: Re: Kozhedub's Pictures
Post by: AWwrgwy on June 24, 2009, 08:13:22 PM
when and where would a russian have contact with american A/C? 

Romania also.  

I've read several stories of this happening.  One was from a German perspective where the Russians and Americans were staring each other down and the German dove through, picking off an American.  The other American's didn't see the German blasting through and thought it was the Russians firing.

Hilarity and Fun ensued.    ;)


edit: Oh yeah, Shuttle bombing to Russia.  Happened twice?  I think?  Not worth the risk. 

wrongway


Title: Re: Kozhedub's Pictures
Post by: hubsonfire on June 24, 2009, 08:23:07 PM
.....Take another look.....

Okay, let's all have a look.

(http://model.otaku.ru/1/kozhedub_guncamera.jpg)

Film doesn't have dots like that- printed images do. If anything, this is a scan of a print of some film, which makes me question it's legitimacy. Sure, it may be on a website, but that doesn't explain anything.

I still think it's faked, or at least not Russian gun cam footage.
Title: Re: Kozhedub's Pictures
Post by: hubsonfire on June 24, 2009, 08:27:00 PM
Hmm, I can't really read Russian, but that appears to be an anime and modelling site.
Title: Re: Kozhedub's Pictures
Post by: Die Hard on June 24, 2009, 10:19:41 PM
.....Take another look.....

Luftwaffe used Carl Zeiss gun cameras. The Russians didn't. It's a pretty open and shut case: Those frames are from a German gun camera.
Title: Re: Kozhedub's Pictures
Post by: Die Hard on June 24, 2009, 10:20:38 PM
.....Take another look.....

Luftwaffe used Carl Zeiss gun cameras. The Russians didn't. It's a pretty open and shut case: Those frames are from a German gun camera.
Title: Re: Kozhedub's Pictures
Post by: BnZs on June 24, 2009, 11:53:15 PM
The Russians put it out that they had a nuclear bomber with a straight face. Not a nuclear armed bomber mind you, they claimed to have a bomber that flew on nuclear power. So anything is possible with 'em.
Title: Re: Kozhedub's Pictures
Post by: Unit791 on June 25, 2009, 08:41:42 AM
You don't think as the Russians re-captured all of their territory that they did not pick up German equiptment on the way?  Perhaps even cameras of some sort.  I'm sure what the Germans had was a bit better than that of the Russians. 
Title: Re: Kozhedub's Pictures
Post by: hubsonfire on June 25, 2009, 09:26:54 AM
Did the Russians even use gun cameras? I can find nothing so far.
Title: Re: Kozhedub's Pictures
Post by: Die Hard on June 25, 2009, 12:12:48 PM
You don't think as the Russians re-captured all of their territory that they did not pick up German equiptment on the way?  Perhaps even cameras of some sort.  I'm sure what the Germans had was a bit better than that of the Russians. 

That's just too silly.
Title: Re: Kozhedub's Pictures
Post by: Die Hard on June 25, 2009, 12:21:23 PM
Did the Russians even use gun cameras? I can find nothing so far.

The Ruskies used gun cameras.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp6GBvzv-Rs

List of Russian gun cameras and lenses:

http://www.photohistory.ru/1207248189467828.html
Title: Re: Kozhedub's Pictures
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 25, 2009, 12:31:43 PM


edit: Oh yeah, Shuttle bombing to Russia.  Happened twice?  I think?  Not worth the risk. 

wrongway




Operation Bellicose
Operation Frantic
Operation Paravane

Those are just some of the operations that were conducted using 'Shuttle bombing'.  Another example were the shuttle bombing missions that took place during the Warsaw Uprising.

Quote
During the Warsaw Uprising the Frantic airbases were used for an airdrop to the Poles fighting in the city. On 17 September 1944 70 B-17s and 57 P-51s flew without bombs from Italy and landed safely in the United Kingdom. On 18 September 107 of 110 B-17s dropped 1,248 containers of supplies to Polish forces in Warsaw and flew on to the USSR losing one B-17 with seven more damaged. The next day 100 B-17s and 61 P-51s left the USSR and bombed the marshalling yard at Szolnok in Hungary as they returned to bases in Italy

Looks like it was more common than you thought.


ack-ack
Title: Re: Kozhedub's Pictures
Post by: hubsonfire on June 25, 2009, 12:37:47 PM
The Ruskies used gun cameras.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp6GBvzv-Rs

List of Russian gun cameras and lenses:

http://www.photohistory.ru/1207248189467828.html

I see some footage shot from planes, and some gun cam footage, but how can you tell it's Russian? And I can't read a word on the second link.
Title: Re: Kozhedub's Pictures
Post by: Die Hard on June 25, 2009, 12:47:07 PM
The crappy quality  :D
Title: Re: Kozhedub's Pictures
Post by: Shuffler on June 25, 2009, 12:56:28 PM
Ruskivision