Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: oakranger on June 24, 2009, 12:19:58 AM
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I never thought it would possible. LW have tested and experiment 190s flying with a torpedo. Then supposing they assigned the tasked to III./KG200 to fly 190 F-16/R15 but no mission has took place.
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp20/skbluestem/fw190torp.jpg?t=1245819809 (http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp20/skbluestem/fw190torp.jpg?t=1245819809)
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp20/skbluestem/Fw190F_16R14photoa.jpg?t=1245820650 (http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp20/skbluestem/Fw190F_16R14photoa.jpg?t=1245820650)
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Not positive what criteria are used by HTC to decide whether something should be added or not, but it's generally accepted within the community that it would have to have been deployed and flew combat sorties to be considered for addition. You have to draw the line somewhere and that seems like a good a place as any otherwise you open up a whole world of mods, and experiments. To me this would fall under the 20mm for F6F-5's, the P-38 could also carry a torpedo as could the B-25 I believe, they also tried a B-25 with 20mm cannon in the nose instead of the standard .50 cal straffer (if I remember right, don't have the book in front of me). And that's just weaponary what about fuels, additional gun stations on bombers? etc. etc. it's a whole can of worms that I think the general consensus is should just be left closed.
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I know something like this will never be on AH nor am i asking for it. I thought it is weird to see a 190 with a torpedo. I have seen pics of a P-38 with torpedoes but never heard of B-25.
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Lets add all of the mods to all of the A/C and then perk them all... :noid
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I know something like this will never be on AH nor am i asking for it. I thought it is weird to see a 190 with a torpedo. I have seen pics of a P-38 with torpedoes but never heard of B-25.
It is a bit fun to muse about the "what ifs". :) I'll see if I can find the pic I'm thinking of with the B-25.
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Think they tried torpedos on the B-26 Marauder as well....Midway 6/42 if
memory serves.
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Not a what if...a fact
How about a stuka with a torpedo. :salute
(http://www.kbismarck.org/photos/stuka-torpedo01.jpg)
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It would be great if they could use the torpedo engine in flight, give ya
another 20 knots :D. I swear the Ju-87 the only bird in AH you need to
dive to reach rotation speed :aok
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I may be loosing my mind, but i thought that LW was messing around with 109 with a torpedo.
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It would be great if they could use the torpedo engine in flight, give ya
another 20 knots :D. I swear the Ju-87 the only bird in AH you need to
dive to reach rotation speed :aok
Agreed.
Stukas don't have clocks to gauge flight time...they have calenders!
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i did read something about 163 was tested to carrie a torpedo. Germany was hoping to have them station along the cost of France so they can used them to drive off any allied invation.
234c was to be armed with BTs and both Friedensengel or Schneewittchen torpedo gliders (versions C-3/T2 or C-5/T2).
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The 38 was tested carrying 2 torps but never used in combat.
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This is a page from the B-25C service manual that illustrates the operation of the torpedo director. Would be kinda cool to clamp this above the instrument panel and use in the game. The standard Mk 13 torpedo was flight tested and certified for use on the B-25, but never actually used in combat.
(http://332nd.org/dogs/baumer/HistoricalImages/B-25TorpDirector.jpg)
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The 38 was tested carrying 2 torps but never used in combat.
There is a pic that i know shows a P-38 armed with two torpedoes trying to look for it. If i am not mistaking, the U.S. was anticipating to used them in the Pacific campaign. Thinking that they need a fast A/C that can carrie more than one torpedo rather then using the carrier base SBDs
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I know something like this will never be on AH nor am i asking for it. I thought it is weird to see a 190 with a torpedo. I have seen pics of a P-38 with torpedoes but never heard of B-25.
The B-25 was commonly used in the anti-maritime role and were able to carry torpedoes, the B-25H is an example of one of the varients that did carry torpedoes. The Navy/Marine version of the B-25 was also able to carry torpedoes.
ack-ack
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Oakranger I think you misspoke, the SBD was a dive bomber and did not carry torpedo's. The TBD and TBF/TBM were the standard carrier based torpedo planes.
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Oakranger I think you misspoke, the SBD was a dive bomber and did not carry torpedo's. The TBD and TBF/TBM were the standard carrier based torpedo planes.
oops, sorry. I have know ideal why i said SBD. Thx
The B-25 was commonly used in the anti-maritime role and were able to carry torpedoes, the B-25H is an example of one of the varients that did carry torpedoes. The Navy/Marine version of the B-25 was also able to carry torpedoes.
ack-ack
How often did they used them? Or did the pilots have issues fly the B-25 with torpedoes? kind like they didn't favor the 75 mm do to the violet shaking of the A/C while firing.
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BBS hiccup, multiple post.
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BBS hiccup.
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I'm not too familiar with the B-25 missions flown by the Navy/Marines but in Air Force service (at least in the Pacific) I haven't come across anything that would suggest that torpedoes were used operationally. The preferred method of attack in the South Pacific was skip bombing. I'm now curious though I'll have to see if I can find out anything about the Navy/Marine use of the B-25 as well as the MTO.
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Looking at the USN/USMC ordinance statistic's, I couldn't find any torpedo's expended on combat missions by PBJ's (B-25's for you Air Force types :lol ).
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Speaking of torpedo's... according to what I read at the U.S. Airforce museum in Dayton a couple of weeks ago the U.S. torps could only be dropped at less than 50 feet in hight and no faster than 129 mph or they would fall apart... so whats with this B.S. 250mph for U.S. torps drop speed in here?
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If you look on the B25's console in the game, behind an down from the yoke, you can see the Torpedo indicator selector and warning light.
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I'm reading a book about the torpedo squadrons of midway, and the author is ina torpedo squadron. He states that after Midway, the Burea of Ordinance and CalTech found that the best altitude for the Mk13 was 800ft and closer to 300mph to stabilze. The low and slow techniqu didn't cut it.
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Some B-25s actually dropped glide torps. The wings were released by explosive bolts before it entered the water. This allowed the 25 to drop further out.
I have been able to do this with torps off my SAPP 38 using duct tape. Interesting enough the duct tape seems to hold the torp wings on just long enough to just before they hit the town. I've found them to be very effective.
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I believe this to be a pretty good source of information about the Mk. 13 torpedo.
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WTUS_WWII.htm (http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WTUS_WWII.htm)
"The early models were handicapped by the need to drop them low and slow - 50 feet (15 m) and 110 knots - which made the torpedo planes carrying them more vulnerable to attack. The torpedoes themselves were found to be prone to defects. In mid-1943, an analysis of 105 torpedoes dropped at speeds in excess of 150 knots found that 36 percent ran cold (did not start), 20 percent sank, 20 percent had poor deflection performance, 18 percent gave unsatisfactory depth performance, 2 percent ran on the surface and only 31 percent gave a satisfactory run. The total exceeds 100 percent as many torpedoes had more than one defect.
These problems were greatly reduced by the latter years of the war. Torpedoes had fin stabilizers, nose drag rings and tail shroud rings added, all of which worked to slow the torpedo after it was dropped so that it struck the water nose-first and at an acceptable speed. These improved the drop characteristics such that the recommended aircraft maximum launch parameters were increased to a height of 2,400 feet (730 m) and a speed of 410 knots.
The addition of the nose drag ring improved aerodynamic performance by stabilizing the torpedo in flight and reduced air speed by about 40 percent. It also acted as a shock absorber when the torpedo struck the water. The tail shroud ring improved the water run by reducing hooks and broaches and by eliminating much of the water roll which had characterized the earlier Mark 13s. Hot, straight and normal runs now approached 100 percent. To speed availability of the much improved torpedo, the Bureau of Ordnance had tail assemblies built with the shroud ring attached and then shipped these to the fleet for upgrading the existing inventory. By the fall of 1944, the modified torpedo was in general use by the front-line carrier units which were enthusiastic in their praise. On one occasion in early 1945, six torpedoes were dropped from altitudes between 5,000 and 7,000 feet (1,500 to 2,100 m). Five out of the six were observed to make their runs hot, straight and normal. By the end of the war, the USN considered the Mark 13 to be the best aircraft torpedo produced by any nation and it remained in service until 1950."
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Nice post Baumer, learn something new all the time :aok
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Think they tried torpedos on the B-26 Marauder as well....Midway 6/42 if
memory serves.
Found a little print of the Midway raid.
(http://www.users.bigpond.com/pacificwar/webgraphics/Midway/Midway_B26.jpg)
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Great post Baumer. How is the weather up there, we are 108 today in Wichita
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Found a little print of the Midway raid.
(http://www.users.bigpond.com/pacificwar/webgraphics/Midway/Midway_B26.jpg)
Have you seen the "After" print?
(http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/1038/buzzjob54550.jpg)
(http://www.roygrinnell.com/ShotAc38.jpg)
Anyway. 190 with a fish on:
(http://www.focke-wulf190.com/images/a5u14.jpg)
P-38:
(http://rareaircraf1.greyfalcon.us/picturesn/ac43.jpg)
wrongway
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Well it was 97 most of the day for me Oakranger, glad I was inside!
Here's some more info on the Midway torpedo attack. http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/events/wwii-pac/midway/mid-4a.htm (http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/events/wwii-pac/midway/mid-4a.htm)
" Midway-based Torpedo Attacks on the Japanese Carrier Striking Force, 4 June 1942
Ten torpedo planes were among the aircraft launched from Midway's Eastern Island airfield as the Japanese raid approached in the early morning of 4 June 1942. Four were Army Air Force B-26 "Marauder" medium bombers, which had been modified to each carry a Navy Mark XIII aerial torpedo. The other six were a detachment of the same Torpedo Squadron Eight (VT-8) that flew from USS Hornet. Unlike their shipborne squadronmates, this group operated the newly-introduced TBF-1 "Avenger" torpedo plane, which had much better performance than the older TBD-1 "Devastator".
These ten torpedo planes were the first to encounter the Japanese carrier fleet, soon after 7:00 AM, and they received the intense and deadly attentions of the defending combat air patrol. Only one of the Navy TBFs survived, much shot up with one crewman killed. Two of the four Army planes got through. However, none of the torpedo planes hit a Japanese ship.
This page features views of the surviving VT-8 TBF-1 torpedo bomber, and of the crew of one of the Army B-26s that survived this attack."
Here's a photo of one of the B-26 crews from Midway;
(http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/f000001/f022850.jpg)
And here's the writeup;
"Photo #: USAF 22850 AC
Battle of Midway, June 1942
Crew of U.S. Army Air Force First Lieutenant James Muri's B-26, who made a torpedo attack on a Japanese aircraft carrier during the early morning of 4 June 1942. The plane had more than 500 bullet holes when it landed at Midway following this action. 1st. Lt. Muri is second from left, in the front row."
Photo of the only TBF to make it back,
(http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/g10000/g17063.jpg)
"Photo #: 80-G-17063
Battle of Midway, June 1942
Grumman TBF-1 (Bureau # 00380) "Avenger" of Torpedo Squadron Eight (VT-8), photographed at Midway, 25 June 1942, prior to shipment back to the United States for post-battle evaluation.
Badly shot-up, this plane was the only survivor of six Midway-based VT-8 TBFs that had attacked the Japanese carrier force in the morning of 4 June. The plane's pilot was Ensign Albert K. Earnest. Crew were Radioman 3rd Class Harrier H. Ferrier and Seaman 1st Class Jay D. Manning. Manning, who was operating the .50 caliber machinegun turret, was killed in action with Japanese fighters during the attack."
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The 190 was an experimental test, as MANY weapons configs were tested during the war, on ALL sides. It was not a production model, nor was it a standard model. You'll notice they had to chop off the tail wheel and weld on tubing to extend it noticably higher?
Was not ever used.