Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: GRUNHERZ on May 04, 2001, 04:24:00 PM
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I think this one shouldn't IL2s were meant to be survivable by their armor, and even then they were shot down in droves. To add the wierd souped up AH buff guns to the IL2 will make it a nightmare to any plane not mounting multiple cannon and 500+ yd ability. In RL it was possible to get up close and under them and attack the vulnerable components or blast it its tail which was said to be rather weak.
If we add the super guns they will just turn and turn, roll, dive etc. to get in one of those magic AH buff single ping kills. Even the TBM can do this with its single ".50" cal and its really wierd. I donno if this is a whine or whatever, but maybe we should think about it? At least make it kinda easy to kill the gunner, these poor guys made the atrocious loss rates of IL2 pilots appear piddling in comparison. Just having a normal 12.7mm will discourage idiots who park slow level on the tail of one, but will make it possible to approach it fast from 6 hi/low/ sideways without any wierd AH buff 1 ping kills. Any thoughts? BTW No need to reply DjVu I allready know what you'll say... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) j/k
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My exeptions are Il-2 turns like a FW-190 A-8... Maybe even worse.
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Gunner or no gunner, the Il-2 will only survive in the MA with lots of escort, like while attacking a vulched field. Great scenario plane though.
ra
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ:
BTW No need to reply DjVu I allready know what you'll say... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) j/k
And another tool jumps on the bandwagon. Anymore and you might tip over, crash and burn.... hmmm that'd be a good thing.
-SW
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Originally posted by Staga:
My exeptions are Il-2 turns like a FW-190 A-8... Maybe even worse.
Here's a quote from a guy who alledgedly knows something about that plane. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/Forum35/HTML/000127.html (http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/Forum35/HTML/000127.html)
Originally posted by Oleg Maddox:
There is about 109E series, which really was slow on low altitudes and turns time was worse then in IL-2 (but climb rate anyway 109E had much beter than IL-2 at low altitudes)
In other manual - IL-10 - there is comparison to Bf-109G-2 and FW-190A-4 and bellow 2000 m IL-10 has almost similar manueverability and speeds. At sea level IL-10 even better in some ways.
Camo
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Camouflage
XO, Lentolaivue 34
www.muodos.fi/LLv34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34)
Brewster into AH!
"The really good pilots use their superior judgement to keep them out of situations
where they might be required to demonstrate their superior skill."
[This message has been edited by LLv34_Camouflage (edited 05-04-2001).]
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hmmm... Not my professional but lets see:
Il-2m3
Empty weight__4525kg
Oper.Weight___6300kg
Wing area_____38,5m2
kg/m2 empty___117,5kg/m2,Oper.____163kg/m2
kg/hp empty___2,66kg/hp, Oper.____3,70kg/m2
FW-190 D9
Empty weight__3612kg
Oper.Weight___4300kg
Wing area_____18,3m2
kg/m2 empty___197kg/m2, Oper.___235kg/m2
kg/hp empty___2,06kg/hp,Oper.___2,45kg/hp
FW-190 A8
Empty weight__3175kg(?)
Oper.Weight___4000kg(?)
Wing area_____18,3m2
kg/m2 empty___173kg/m2, Oper.___218kg/m2
kg/hp empty___1,90kg/hp,Oper.___2,35kg/hp
Me-109 G2
Empty weight__2265kg
Oper.Weight___3100kg(?)
Wing area_____16,1m2
kg/m2 empty___141kg/m2, Oper.___193kg/m2
kg/hp empty___1,56kg/hp,Oper.___2,14kg/hp
That surprised me (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
At least it looks like it can't turn for ever. Looks like earlier model of Il-2 could carry 8 rockets, RS-82 or RS-132 but later models Il-2M, Type 3 and Type 3M only 4 thought their bombload is bigger than early models, 600-750kg in last three types.
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BTW it's Il-2 which comes to AH, Not Il-10.
Il-2m3's TopSpeed is about 390-400kmh while Il-10 runs about 500kmh in ground level.
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I can't remember the last time I was shot down by TBM guns.
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The IL-2's defensive "gun" is a single light MG.
The JU-88 with multiple light MG's gets very little respect; a plane with ONE light MG will be cannon fodder regardless of how much armor it has. IL-2 pilots would do better trying to force the headon.
J_A_B
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The 12.7mm UBT is a light MG?!
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UBT 12,7mm
ROF 1050rps, Bullet weight 48g, muzzle velocity 860m/s
MG13 13mm
ROF 900rps, Bullet weight 34,6g, Muzzle velocity 730m/s
Browning M2 12,7mm
ROF 800, bullet weight 48,5g, Muzzle velocity 870m/s
Draw your own conclusions (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Okay, so I was mistaken and it has a single heavy MG. That's still just ONE gun. Il-2 still has less defensive firepower than a TBM does.
J_A_B
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You're right, it does have less defensive firepower than the TBM - you're also right about forcing the HO(2x23mm (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif))...
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March'43 -> 2*37mm + 2*7,62mm (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
BTW..
Hispano MK II 20mm muzzle velocity is about 880ms, NS-37 about 900ms (250rpm)
If model AH gets is armed with 23mm VYa cannons those aren't bad either:500 rounds/min and 900ms muzzle velocity.
Now all we need is no dar-bar if flying under 500ft (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
[This message has been edited by Staga (edited 05-05-2001).]
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posted by Staga:
If model AH gets is armed with 23mm VYa cannons those aren't bad either:500 rounds/min and 900ms muzzle velocity.
Can you tell me whats is better then those? IMO it just doesnt get any better then this (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Ohh yeah - plus original 600 rounds - 300 rounds per cannon (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Best regards
Dmitry aka vfGhosty
[This message has been edited by Dmitry (edited 05-05-2001).]
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If the muzzle velocity of the VYa cannons doesn't scare you, the armor penetration will. One inch of armor plate steel at 437 yards; at a right angle of course. After this puppy shows up, we won't have to worry about the scurge of Ostwinds, Panzers, or LVTs. A pair of these things would wipe out a column of armor!
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Flakbait [Delta6]
Delta Six's Flight School (http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6)
Put the P-61B in Aces High
"For yay did the sky darken, and split open and spew forth fire, and
through the smoke rode the Four Wurgers of the Apocalypse.
And on their canopies was tattooed the number of the Beast, and the
number was 190." Jedi, Verse Five, Capter Two, The Book of Dweeb
(http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6/htbin/delta6.jpg)
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Ostis suck and I hope they all get ripped up to hell by some of these nasty soviets.... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I'm guessing that except for bombs and rockets, that any gun but the 23mm on the Il2 and maybe the 37 mm on the yak 9t will be pretty useless against armored vehicles. (I'm hoping that killing ostie gunners will be possible with light caliber arms though... )
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bloom25
-MAW-
(Formerly of the)
THUNDERBIRDS
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From what I gathered about the new armor model it'll take into account at least the following:
Impact velocity
Bullet energy
Armor thickness
Armor angle
Impact angle
So you're right Bloom. With the exception of heavy guns or extra ord, armored vehicles will be invulnerable. I still think the Osty's crew would be churned into hamburger by quad .30 cal guns. Hopefully they'll find that bug and fix it. But with the Il-2 showing up they've got a reason to upgrade the armor modeling. I'd imagine we'll probably see a few new bomb types introduced in 1.08-1.1 or there abouts. More than likely we'll see several new rocket types too. AP or delayed-action bombs would be a nice touch, I admit. Cluster munitions? In one way they'd be fun, but you could hit 2 or 3 acks at once with just a single bomb. *shrugs* With the list of new stuff coming in 1.07 I'm more than happy. 3 new planes, maybe 4...plus two new vehicles, new armor model. I've got my fingers crossed for some other new toys, but I don't have my hopes up.
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Flakbait [Delta6]
Delta Six's Flight School (http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6)
Put the P-61B in Aces High
"For yay did the sky darken, and split open and spew forth fire, and
through the smoke rode the Four Wurgers of the Apocalypse.
And on their canopies was tattooed the number of the Beast, and the
number was 190." Jedi, Verse Five, Capter Two, The Book of Dweeb
(http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6/htbin/delta6.jpg)
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Now we need to add the option of buttoning and unbuttoning with this new armor model. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)