Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Wingnutt on June 28, 2009, 01:12:17 PM
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Seems like (to me) that most people who fly the 38 effectifly and regularly seem to prefer the J model, and at times seem even to have distane for folks who drive the L, giving the aire that new 38 drivers, or those who dont really know how to properly use it, are the people who fly the L..
SO!
is there, any REAL difference in performance between the 2, other than the L's dive recovery flaps?
to me the J seems to mush/slide into turns at lowers speeds, where the L seems more ridged.. I have no hard facts to back that up, it just *feels* that way to me.
so, lets hear it.. Ack-Ack, Shuffler.. im looking in your direction...
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Seems like (to me) that most people who fly the 38 effectifly and regularly seem to prefer the J model, and at times seem even to have distane for folks who drive the L, giving the aire that new 38 drivers, or those who dont really know how to properly use it, are the people who fly the L..
I've never seen any dedicated P-38 driver talk down to someone just because the other guy flies the P-38L. The dedicated P-38 flyers are P-38 enthusiasts and encourage others to fly the P-38, not insult them because they like one particular model. Anyone you see that claims to be a 'P-38 driver' talk down on someone for flying the L, isn't a P-38 driver.
If I was to see that myself, I would promptly ask the P-38 "experten" to the DA and then proceed to whip his arse in the L.
SO!
is there, any REAL difference in performance between the 2, other than the L's dive recovery flaps?
to me the J seems to mush/slide into turns at lowers speeds, where the L seems more ridged.. I have no hard facts to back that up, it just *feels* that way to me.
so, lets hear it.. Ack-Ack, Shuffler.. im looking in your direction...
Other than the boosted ailerons and dive flaps, there really isn't that much a performance difference between the J and the L. The L does have that 'flying on rails' feeling and is more responsive in the roll at high speeds, slow speeds they feel the same. To be honest, whether to fly the J or the L really comes down to personal preference and the mission being flown.
Let me put it this way, I've never lost a fight in the L against the J because the "J" was better or vice versa. The small performance difference between the two will not win or lose the fight for you.
ack-ack
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Alright, that about covers it then. :salute
I was figuring a SAPP answer would involve discussing which burns the best while "landing" :t :rolleyes:
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For what it's worth, in the 80th Headhunters, I think the majority fly the J. I fly the G, and at 4-5 very very good sticks fly the L. It really comes down to your own preference. All of us have flown each type to some degree. I just feel more at home in the G.
The L gets the bad name because it's the one folks up with all the ord and go to kill bases with then plow into the ground cause they don't know what to do next.
That doesn't mean the L is a bad bird, just that folks who aren't 38 drivers tend to take the L first for the reasons mentioned.
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I prefer the L for the LW but I've been flying the J more and more lately, i don't know why! :devil
The G is my preferred ride right along with Guppy although i don't log any many "crashes" as he does though! :D
As stated above by Acky and Guppy, the J & L are quite similar despite the L's boosted ailerons and dive flaps. All boils down to personal preference.
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Seems like (to me) that most people who fly the 38 effectifly and regularly seem to prefer the J model, and at times seem even to have distane for folks who drive the L, giving the aire that new 38 drivers, or those who dont really know how to properly use it, are the people who fly the L..
SO!
is there, any REAL difference in performance between the 2, other than the L's dive recovery flaps?
to me the J seems to mush/slide into turns at lowers speeds, where the L seems more ridged.. I have no hard facts to back that up, it just *feels* that way to me.
so, lets hear it.. Ack-Ack, Shuffler.. im looking in your direction...
i'm no akak, or shuffler, but........
i fly the 38, because to me it's much more of a challenge than most of the other aircraft. she needs more finessing, to fight successfully.
trying to shoot one down.........well, i just love seeing that big beautiful twin boomed monstrosity(and i mean that in a nice way) in the air. i admire and respect those that can fly her with success. it is probably one of the most beautiful and intriguing aircraft of it's time.
to see these aircraft being used in the arenas, is great......i used to go for them first, as i figured they were easy kills. now, if i see a bunch of enemies, and there's 1 or more 38's in the mix, i go for them first, because i view them as the most dangerous.(except when i'm flying it) :D
i've never EVER heard a single 38 driver put another 38 driver down due to which model he chose to fly.(although i fly mw, so i only see the G and the J). most of us in them, are just happy to see others up(except in my case when it's akak, shuffler, or any number of other 38 drivers on my 6).
most 38 drivers will give you the cleanset, most fun fight you could possibly get in the arenas.
just watch out for shuffler....if he gets desperate, he'll throw his blender atcha.......and guppy'll throw parts of his faithful 38G atcha. :rofl :rofl
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i've never EVER heard a single 38 driver put another 38 driver down due to which model he chose to fly.
The L gets the bad name because it's the one folks up with all the ord and go to kill bases with then plow into the ground cause they don't know what to do next.
That doesn't mean the L is a bad bird, just that folks who aren't 38 drivers tend to take the L first for the reasons mentioned.
this is what I was referring to. The L seems to be seen as stated, a pork and crash ride.
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it is really dependent upon your preferred ACM style. The J has a very slight advantage over the L in acceleration. The L rolls better at high speed and you have the dive flap.
If your fight is more 2D flat turning the J model is a better fit or at least you don't notice the absence of the aileron boost. If you are into a lift vector placement, high speed, rolling fighting style the L is better suited.
I fly the L mostly in the MA because my fight is very 3D and high speed. The J roll rate feels like a bomber flying my style of fight. The dive flap is nice in a couple different situations. It will increase pitch rate in a medium speed fight if you need just a bit extra but it does cost energy and it, of course, helps when you want to exceed the mach limit on the airfoil.
The J is a bit better low and slow because it has a slight advantage in acceleration but it isn't enough that anyone other than a dedicated P38 driver would ever notice.
I fly all three models regularly and almost never fly anything else. The biggest error in the flight model is the deceleration is too slow with throttle at idle. With two props at flat pitch and idle manifold, fat wing and giant airframe it should decelerate dramatically faster than its single engine contemporaries.
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i like all 3
they all kill the same for me but i do prefer the g for turning spits
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this is what I was referring to. The L seems to be seen as stated, a pork and crash ride.
ok, i see your point there.
the thing is, though, that the same guy that might take a 28L to go pork a field, wil be the very same guy that'll take a pony, or a jug, or a hellkitty, loaded to the gills, and do the same thing.
so, in essence, it's not the aircraft, but rather the pile-it.
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i like all 3
they all kill the same for me but i do prefer the g for turning spits
i STILL can't out turn those little wiggly things in any of the 38's. that could also be due to my lack of online time too.
when i fly the offl;ine mission, the low alt one that puck made, it's 2 38j's and 2 38g's against a pair of niks(i think) and a pair of spit9's. i try to turn with them, and i can't. in either 38, i do my best keeping myself faster than them, and using more verticle. in the g, i've regretted this sometimes...in the j, i've not.
if i delibretley bleed off some speed, and try to turn fight em like i would in a hellkitty, or a hurri, i can't do it........yet.
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Within the game, the P-38J and L are identical in terms of weight, horsepower and performance. I prefer the L because of its superior roll and dive recovery flaps. Any perceived superiority of the J model over the L model is strictly in the mind of the pilot.
My regards,
Widewing
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Both models of P-38 make a tasty snack for my Spitfire. :t
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Both models of P-38 make a tasty snack for my Spitfire. :t
Both models he says!
My 38G likes to eat Spitfires. But it's a third model :)
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it is really dependent upon your preferred ACM style. The J has a very slight advantage over the L in acceleration. The L rolls better at high speed and you have the dive flap.
If your fight is more 2D flat turning the J model is a better fit or at least you don't notice the absence of the aileron boost. If you are into a lift vector placement, high speed, rolling fighting style the L is better suited.
I fly the L mostly in the MA because my fight is very 3D and high speed. The J roll rate feels like a bomber flying my style of fight. The dive flap is nice in a couple different situations. It will increase pitch rate in a medium speed fight if you need just a bit extra but it does cost energy and it, of course, helps when you want to exceed the mach limit on the airfoil.
The J is a bit better low and slow because it has a slight advantage in acceleration but it isn't enough that anyone other than a dedicated P38 driver would ever notice.
I fly all three models regularly and almost never fly anything else. The biggest error in the flight model is the deceleration is too slow with throttle at idle. With two props at flat pitch and idle manifold, fat wing and giant airframe it should decelerate dramatically faster than its single engine contemporaries.
This would be one of those examples of an "expertun" giving incorrect information.
J doesn't have any notable advantage in acceleration.
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IMHO
The 38L is viewed upon as the ord hog of the three. The most experienced pilots seem to fly the J or G, but I have found plenty of guys who are lethal in the L. It is, as stated, personal preference.
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The preference that a lot of people show towards the J is because it has a wider selection of olive drab skins. The L is usually flown with bare metal skins.
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Olive drab is just so sexy! :x
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Olive drab is just so sexy! :x
i'd actually love to see a night fighter skin..........something in black..... :D
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I seemto have bad luck in the L it dives to fast for me but i do like the dive flaps and the boosted alerions. Im sticking with my J.
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The preference that a lot of people show towards the J is because it has a wider selection of olive drab skins. The L is usually flown with bare metal skins.
I'm not a 38 fanboi, but this is why I prefer the J model--better skins with no appreciable difference in performance, IMO.
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I seemto have bad luck in the L it dives to fast for me but i do like the dive flaps and the boosted alerions. Im sticking with my J.
The P-38J dives no differently than the P-38L, so if you can dive alright in the P-38J without any problems then there really is no reason why you can't do it in the L as well. Any differerence is solely in the mind of the pilot.
ack-ack
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The G. It is just sexier.
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i'd actually love to see a night fighter skin..........something in black..... :D
didn't the J have one a while back? I use to use that skin but I haven't seen it for sometime now ......
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didn't the J have one a while back? I use to use that skin but I haven't seen it for sometime now ......
Yes and it was completely inaccurate :)
We don't have a P38M so a nightfighter seems a bit out of reach. Why we'd need a daylight night fighter P38 I have no idea :huh
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Yes and it was completely inaccurate :)
We don't have a P38M so a nightfighter seems a bit out of reach. Why we'd need a daylight night fighter P38 I have no idea :huh
just because..........
anything that looks good, looks sooooo much sexier in black. :D :aok
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I'm floppy like an electrocuted jelly fish in the J.. Just can't get it to do what I want most of the time..
The G feels like a twin engined Spit without wep.. As long as I don't have to worry about my tail getting shot off by 3 or 4 other guys (very rare in a 38), I'll turn with almost anything for a
reasonable amount of time..
The L is my main ride.. Like others have said, it feels like it's on rails.. Doesn't flop around on my as much as the J(probably just my horribly lacking skills)..
I fight fast/up/down, missing most of my shots and occasionally pancaking or lawn darting because I'm not paying attention to where the ground is..
I'd probably do better if I actually learned how to fight..
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Maybe Bark0 will chime in and help
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The 38J has one of the worst roll rates in the game at 400mph ias, the 38L has one of the best. Like many here have pointed out, the skins and history of the J outweigh the roll performance of the L for some people.
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The L responds better to other 38s and is generally a friendlier breed when compared to the often knarled mouthed J. It is also a higher energy breed but tires faster than the G or the J if pushed to hard, to fast. The L possesses great energy and eagerness for the hunt yet is controllable in the field. Similarly, the L loves his daily exercise, but also enjoys just hanging out with his family. Friendly and eager to please, the L responds well to obedience training. His center mounted weapons require little brushing up on gunnery skills after long periods of inactivity. The G model must be well balanced, enabling it to move in the turn fight or work in the vertical with little or no effort. The typical G possesses style and quality without over refinement, and substance without lumber or cloddiness. The G is built primarily as a working gun dog; structure and soundness are of great importance. Remember, these are dangerous DOG FIGHTING breeds and must be handled with care and respect.
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Maybe Bark0 will chime in and help
:rofl :aok
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The 38J has one of the worst roll rates in the game at 400mph ias, the 38L has one of the best. Like many here have pointed out, the skins and history of the J outweigh the roll performance of the L for some people.
*Nail on head
Roll rate is a huge advantage esp for those lil corrections while BnZing spitwads.
J has MUCH better skins hands down but the L goes with Letalis so well...
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didn't the J have one a while back? I use to use that skin but I haven't seen it for sometime now ......
I got my first win in the racing league (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZo2DmV83i8) with that P-38. :D So sexay.
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*Nail on head
Roll rate is a huge advantage esp for those lil corrections while BnZing spitwads.
Easily compensated for by using more rudder input in your turns. I'm no crack shot but I've never missed a kill shot because of my roll rate at high speeds.
ack-ack
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Best thing is to pick one and learn it well.
I came across a note in a wartime history of a 38 group where it mentioned that pilots took a while to get used to the lightness of the controls on the 38L vs the earlier J. They tended to overcorrect and it was harder to fly before it got easier as they were used to muscling the 38J around more . I think that's accurate for AH too
There are some great sticks in both the J and L, and I do think it's a personal preference on either, along with those few of us who die in the 38G :)
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I for one actually have trouble switching between the models, even between the L and J they just feel different and I don't feel I do as well as the L (I usually fly the J because I like the skins more). I have real difficulty switching between the G and J however as I believe the G takes a different approach than the later models. In my experience if you fly the G like the J or the J like the G your flight ends pretty quickly.
As CorkyJr said pick one and fly it. :)
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I for one actually have trouble switching between the models, even between the L and J they just feel different and I don't feel I do as well as the L (I usually fly the J because I like the skins more). I have real difficulty switching between the G and J however as I believe the G takes a different approach than the later models. In my experience if you fly the G like the J or the J like the G your flight ends pretty quickly.
As CorkyJr said pick one and fly it. :)
I TRIED switching from the j to the g last night in mw, and kept stall/spinning the g. i switched, as most of the fights were literally on the deck, and were fun turnfights......i lacked the acceleration of the j, but was hoping to turn better with the waves of seafires and f6f's.
i ended up back in the j though. one thing i do tend to try, is to pick one of the olive drab j's......mostly hoping to fool the badguys into thinking they're attacking a g, till they're too close to re-asses......
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I think fuel is also more of a concern in the G than the J. For most MA sorties in the J I tend to take 75% and no DT's, it leaves you a little heavy to begin with but it's manageable. The G I like to take 50% but a couple DT's, the difference I feel is the J has a better thurst/weight ratio, the G really shines when light but at least in my hands feels like a bit of a dog with any more than 50% fuel, The G also does better fighting downhill, it doesn't get energy back as well as the J nor is it quite as good in the vert. But a light G will give a lot of rides a run for their money in maneuverability, keep your turns nose low to keep the speed in the sweet spot and it'll really haul around. The J is more well suited for fighting uphill with the extra power you can really stand it on its tail and get above people who are wallowing below you fighting the torque on their own plane.
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I think fuel is also more of a concern in the G than the J. For most MA sorties in the J I tend to take 75% and no DT's, it leaves you a little heavy to begin with but it's manageable. The G I like to take 50% but a couple DT's, the difference I feel is the J has a better thurst/weight ratio, the G really shines when light but at least in my hands feels like a bit of a dog with any more than 50% fuel, The G also does better fighting downhill, it doesn't get energy back as well as the J nor is it quite as good in the vert. But a light G will give a lot of rides a run for their money in maneuverability, keep your turns nose low to keep the speed in the sweet spot and it'll really haul around. The J is more well suited for fighting uphill with the extra power you can really stand it on its tail and get above people who are wallowing below you fighting the torque on their own plane.
hhmm....maybe that's it too then....i tend to take 50% internal, and 2 draop tanks on either model. i keep the tanks if i'm going for bombers, as they don't hurt me....i also keep em if i'm at an alt advantage, and feel as if i'm maintaining it. once i see a serious fight coming, i get rid of them........maybe 25% internal would do me better in the g.......
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I TRIED switching from the j to the g last night in mw, and kept stall/spinning the g. i switched, as most of the fights were literally on the deck, and were fun turnfights......i lacked the acceleration of the j, but was hoping to turn better with the waves of seafires and f6f's.
i ended up back in the j though. one thing i do tend to try, is to pick one of the olive drab j's......mostly hoping to fool the badguys into thinking they're attacking a g, till they're too close to re-asses......
You're too ham fisted on the controls, that is why you're entering into accelerated stalls in the G. Be a tad lighter on the controls and you won't get into an accelerated stall. Honestly, if you don't get into accelerated stalls in the J, there is no reason why you should get into one in the G unless you're being ham fisted and jerking hard on the controls.
Rudder input is very necessary in the G (as it is with all P-38s) and remember, nose low turns make the G (and the other P-38s) turn nice and tight. That's why it is important to coordinate your turns in the Lightning.
Acceleration is a problem with the G, especially with the lack of WEP. I know others will disagree with me but I've always felt that due to the lack of WEP and lower acceleration than the other Lightnings, the G was a good plane to learn how to Energy fight. The lack of acceleration and WEP really makes you learn how to manage your energy state much more than in the J or the L. Once you've learned how to manage your energy state, the lack of acceleration and WEP no longer really becomes a hindrance.
Personally, the only olive drab skin for the J that is can be considered beautiful is of course the 479th skin but I've gotten a new skin to love and in my opinion is probably the best looking metal J skin. Of course (no surprise!) it's yet another 479th skin. The rest of you guys that fly those non-479th skins might as well put a bag over your faces.
ack-ack
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You're too ham fisted on the controls, that is why you're entering into accelerated stalls in the G. Be a tad lighter on the controls and you won't get into an accelerated stall. Honestly, if you don't get into accelerated stalls in the J, there is no reason why you should get into one in the G unless you're being ham fisted and jerking hard on the controls.
Rudder input is very necessary in the G (as it is with all P-38s) and remember, nose low turns make the G (and the other P-38s) turn nice and tight. That's why it is important to coordinate your turns in the Lightning.
Acceleration is a problem with the G, especially with the lack of WEP. I know others will disagree with me but I've always felt that due to the lack of WEP and lower acceleration than the other Lightnings, the G was a good plane to learn how to Energy fight. The lack of acceleration and WEP really makes you learn how to manage your energy state much more than in the J or the L. Once you've learned how to manage your energy state, the lack of acceleration and WEP no longer really becomes a hindrance.
Personally, the only olive drab skin for the J that is can be considered beautiful is of course the 479th skin but I've gotten a new skin to love and in my opinion is probably the best looking metal J skin. Of course (no surprise!) it's yet another 479th skin. The rest of you guys that fly those non-479th skins might as well put a bag over your faces.
ack-ack
i probably should have mentioned that (at least last night) i was getting the j into those stalls too. i know it was the loose nut on the end of the control yoke, i just couldnt figure out what it was i was doing wrong.
i got my but handed to me by a hurting 110g...and he fought clean.....got it handed to me by shuff a couple times......pangea.........and ALL of them, i had the apparent advantage when we merged. pangea kilt my stoopid arse so many times, i think he got bored, and switched sides, and started working with us at a1..... :rofl :rofl
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i'd actually love to see a night fighter skin..........something in black..... :D
i used to fly the J exclusively, because it had a black skin, allas it does not any more!
but i am no expert in flying any of them, it is more fun tho when you whip up on some spitty's in the G tho
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i probably should have mentioned that (at least last night) i was getting the j into those stalls too. i know it was the loose nut on the end of the control yoke, i just couldnt figure out what it was i was doing wrong.
i got my but handed to me by a hurting 110g...and he fought clean.....got it handed to me by shuff a couple times......pangea.........and ALL of them, i had the apparent advantage when we merged. pangea kilt my stoopid arse so many times, i think he got bored, and switched sides, and started working with us at a1..... :rofl :rofl
next time I'm in the MW arena and you're on, tag along for a ride or two.
ack-ack
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next time I'm in the MW arena and you're on, tag along for a ride or two.
ack-ack
will do......i'm actually within an hour of leaving the shop, and if i can sit long enough(sciatica flaring up) i was gonna go to either mw or ta, and get some practice..........
thanks dude!
<<S>>
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The J has the best skin. BRING BACK BLACK BETSY :rock
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The J has the best skin. BRING BACK BLACK BETSY :rock
It has no basis in history, there was no plane painted like that during the war. It ain't coming back.
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The P38's do seem to draw alot of enemy planes trying to kill it. To me that's its one weakness.
Helm ...out
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The P38's do seem to draw alot of enemy planes trying to kill it. To me that's its one weakness.
Helm ...out
i think that would have something to do with the fact that there's only 2 kinds of p38 pile-its.
1) those that will use it, and kick your arse in it every time.
2) those that really suck in it, and are easy kills(like me)
either way, that makes the 38 the primary target when there's multiple cons.
<<S>>
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I think i fall in between 1 & 2. I still suck though. :D
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The P38's do seem to draw alot of enemy planes trying to kill it. To me that's its one weakness.
Helm ...out
What you see as a weakness, I see as a target rich enviroment.
ack-ack
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i think that would have something to do with the fact that there's only 2 kinds of p38 pile-its.
1) those that will use it, and kick your arse in it every time.
2) those that really suck in it, and are easy kills(like me)
either way, that makes the 38 the primary target when there's multiple cons.
<<S>>
Everyone starts out as a #2, those that stick with it and work at it more often than not become #1 over time. :)
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Still at number 2 all these years, but having a ball trying to move towards 1 :)
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Everyone starts out as a #2, those that stick with it and work at it more often than not become #1 over time. :)
well, maybe i'll make it to #1 someday....asuming you guys keep giving me my free p38's. :D
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It's a fact the L climbs better than the J.
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It's a fact the L climbs better than the J.
No, there is zero difference in climb rate for the two. Simple test, load a J with 25% gas, full internal ammo. Turn on auto-takeoff. Start the takeoff roll using WEP. Use a stop watch to measure the time required to get airborne and climb to 10k. Repeat for the L model.
Your results will be identical to 1/10th of a second.
They weigh exactly the same, with the same horsepower. Climb rate is identical for any given weight.
My regards,
Widewing
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Only 1? Bahh :t
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Hey, while we're discussing this--what was the approximate dates that the 5th AF P-38 groups would have had a majority of P-38Ls in theater versus the J?
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What I can tell (and if I'm wrong someone please correct me). The L began to roll off the assembly lines in June of '44. I also found a bit in the 475th Group history that said the 432nd FS received 15 L models on September 29 to give them a full complement (they been flying a mix of J and L's for several weeks). They turned over the last of their J-20's to the 433rd FS which had to wait till November to get the L's.
So my guess is that the L's started trickling in over the summer of '44 but most groups probably weren't fully converted till late '44, early '45.
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Hey, while we're discussing this--what was the approximate dates that the 5th AF P-38 groups would have had a majority of P-38Ls in theater versus the J?
The L's showed with the 475th FG in late September early October 44. I'm not home at the moment, so I'm not sure on the specific squadron, but one of the squadrons got the Ls first, then another with the third sticking with J's the longest. I think it's safe to say the groups didn't have a majority of L models until December 44-January 45. It's also fair to say that the majority of the air to air combat in the Pacific was flown in the F,G, H and J models. The 80th for example got it's last kill of the war in January 45. The 5th AF 38s ran out of targets and did a lot of ground support work after that.
The 38L also showed up in the ETO in early October 1944. The 474th FG had 38s until the end of the war in Europe and they had a mix of Js and Ls right til the end, including some J-10s and 15s that didn't have dive flaps or power assisted controls.
The problem is there were J-25s prior to this, and they look identical to L-1s
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The problem is there were J-25s prior to this, and they look identical to L-1s
The only visual cue to differentiate the J-25 from the L (aside from serial numbers) is that on the L the landing light was moved from the wheel well to the leading edge of the left wing.
Thus, if you can see the leading edge of the wing, you can tell an L from a late J model.
My regards,
Widewing
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The only visual cue to differentiate the J-25 from the L (aside from serial numbers) is that on the L the landing light was moved from the wheel well to the leading edge of the left wing.
Thus, if you can see the leading edge of the wing, you can tell an L from a late J model.
My regards,
Widewing
You positive on that one Widewing? I've always understood that the late J-25s also had the wing leading edge landing light and were externally identical to the L-1. This one, flown by 474th pilot Lloyd Wenzel is ID'd as a J-25 by Wenzel himself
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/11.jpg)
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You positive on that one Widewing? I've always understood that the late J-25s also had the wing leading edge landing light and were externally identical to the L-1. This one, flown by 474th pilot Lloyd Wenzel is ID'd as a J-25 by Wenzel himself
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/11.jpg)
200 of the 210 P-38J-25s (or so designated by contract requirement) that were delivered to the AAF had the wheel well landing light installation. Those last ten were delivered built as true L-1s, with the V-1710F-30 motors installed.
That said, those shipped to Britain were brought up to L-1 specification at Langford Lodge. These modifications included the installation of leading edge landing light, swapping V-1710F-30 engines for the original F-15s and some (not all) also received the tail warning radar installation (those transferred in August from the 8th AF). Some were updated upon receipt in Northern Ireland, others upon transfer from the 8th AF to the 9th AF. I have several photos of 474th J-25s, and all were upgraded. When the 20th FG transitioned to the P-51, they handed over four J-25s which were ferried directly to Langford Lodge for overhaul and updating prior to reissue to the 9th AF replacement depot.
Not all J-25s were upgraded. Those going to the 15th AF were not upgraded, but the 15th received only a small allocation of the model. I have not yet found any evidence that any J-25s were shipped to the Pacific.
<Edit: I have a note from Jack Ilfrey where he states that he was assigned a brand new J-25, only to be informed three days later that he was getting a P-51D-5-NA instead. The J-25 was a replacement for the J-15 he lost in France on June 11, 1944 (shot down by flak).>
My regards,
Widewing
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Thanks for the clarification Widewing.
I was reading some of the 428th FS, 474th FG history last night, and I noted an interesting comment in some recollections about a fight that took place August 25, 1944. One pilot was flying wing on another and when they called for a break, he couldn't keep up as his was an older 38 without power assisted controls and his element lead had one with power assist. I know they had some old J-10s into the Spring of 45 to go along with the later Js and the Ls they got. They did not get any L models until the end of October when they had 4 Ls to go with their J models.
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I prefer the L model. Is the L model easy mode for a P-38 noob? I seem to have better luck with it as opposed to the J model.