Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Yarbles on June 30, 2009, 04:08:51 AM
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I fly this plane quite allot alongside the Spit VIII.
I am surprised how badly it handles in certain situations particularly its stall behaviour. It seems highly unstable and unbalanced and I am surprised a plane with these characteristics ever went into production.
When Soda writes about it he says it is in many ways indestiquishable from the spit 9 in turning and handling etc!!!
Has it been modified to make it more off a handfull since he wrote his report and is it correctly modelled???
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Guppy mentionned that it was such a departure from the Spitfire that they (Supermarine or the RAF I guess) considered renaming it.
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I had the same problem.....at first. It's stick settings that makes it appear twitchy and that's the work around. Its a little fiddly to get it right but it does improve the handling considerably. Stops those snap rolls and tank slapper (motorcycle phrase) rudder over corrections. Make the stick stiffer. All sticks are different so theres no easy profile to recommend. Dead band, damper and stick scales are for you to suck an see.
However, its not as stable low speed turning at the other spits. Its also prone to snapping wings off in high speed turns like the old 262 was. Bare in mind you are going faster than the other spits. Get it over 23k on full blowers and its a killer.
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I had the same problem.....at first. It's stick settings that makes it appear twitchy and that's the work around. Its a little fiddly to get it right but it does improve the handling considerably. Stops those snap rolls and tank slapper (motorcycle phrase) rudder over corrections. Make the stick stiffer. All sticks are different so theres no easy profile to recommend. Dead band, damper and stick scales are for you to suck an see.
However, its not as stable low speed turning at the other spits. Its also prone to snapping wings off in high speed turns like the old 262 was. Bare in mind you are going faster than the other spits. Get it over 23k on full blowers and its a killer.
Thanks Ill try that and adjust my stick with more deadband and steaper scaling.
I think baring in mind the realtively modest increase in performance except up high the 9 and 8 are a much better balance. The 14 I think is the same plane as the 8 with a bigger longer engine that is probably too much for the air frame to handle and unbalances the whole thing for an inusfficient gain in top speed.
To resurect a well worn debate with all the 14's weaknesses I am surprised it is so highly perked if even perked at all.
I would perk the Nikki, Spit 16 and La7. People in AH build up huge perk reserves because these unperked planes are the rides of choice.
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If the Mk.XIV flew in real life like it does in AH2 then I'll eat my socks.
Unperk the Mk.XIV btw.
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Its a 109 in spits clothing. Handles nothing like the spit 8 or 9.
Its a high alt design, that really only shines at high alts.
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If the Mk.XIV flew in real life like it does in AH2 then I'll eat my socks.
Unperk the Mk.XIV btw.
I wonder if anyone has seen any written accounts of its performance. :pray
Perhaps if we had some data we could get Hi Tech to re work it a bit. At the moment we have high perks and crap handling or the worst of both worlds. I would say remove the perk or take the rough edge of it. It cant be both a perked ride and bagger to fly. Dont make sense :huh
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Its a 109 in spits clothing. Handles nothing like the spit 8 or 9.
Its a high alt design, that really only shines at high alts.
Agreed...sort of.
The Spit 14 is a difficult plane to fly well, totally unlike its Spitfire brethern.
However, once you get the hang of it, the plane is a monster. While it's best at high alts, it's still a monster at low alts.
- oldman
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Agreed...sort of.
The Spit 14 is a difficult plane to fly well, totally unlike its Spitfire brethern.
However, once you get the hang of it, the plane is a monster. While it's best at high alts, it's still a monster at low alts.
- oldman
Got any tips??
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Got any tips??
Fly it like a D pony. That is what I try to do.
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Fly it like a less stable 109K.
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Fly it like a D pony. That is what I try to do.
I dont fly a 109k as far as the Pony goes that is what I try to do but it has certain weaknesses vis the pony.
1) Roll rate deteriates significantly with speed.
2) Wings rip off if you pull a sharp fast manovre.
3) Allot more untstable close to the stall.
4) Slower in allot of situations.
But
1) Outclimbs
2) Outaccelrates
3) Outguns
The Pony.
So I fly it up high and use E to batter my opponents from above knowing that as long as things dont get too slow I can outturn them mostly as well. If I fight a pony in a sustained fight I try to gain the E advantage in a vertical fight but they still have the option to dive away and use their roll rate to dodge me in fast pursuit.
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My success in the 14 comes from what I call the soup ladle approach. Dip down, bring it up, then eat it. Rinse and repeat. Always work the vertical with the 14, as this is where she truly shines! I have ended up on the deck fighting with it, and you have a pretty fair chance against 1-2 cons. More than that, and the 14's instabilities really become a handicap.
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My success in the 14 comes from what I call the soup ladle approach. Dip down, bring it up, then eat it. Rinse and repeat. Always work the vertical with the 14, as this is where she truly shines! I have ended up on the deck fighting with it, and you have a pretty fair chance against 1-2 cons. More than that, and the 14's instabilities really become a handicap.
Makes sense and of course you have to avoid bringing it up to fast or the wings fly off. I dont understand with such a relatively low perk why it gets ganged by so many so quickly. I guess low down its seen as both a threat and an easy kill simultaneously.
I find the Nikki and other spits especially the 8 and 16 tough as when they follow you up they often catch you :eek:
The other shortcoming in relation to the Pony is it compresses earlier which tends to mean you cant carry as much E into a fight though of course you can recover it quicker.
Jonnie Johnson said of the 14 "It had more in common with the p51 than the spit 9" I would agree probably in ah anyway but I am not sure whether flown like a pony it is as good as a Pony.
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Fly it like a D pony. That is what I try to do.
Climb to 25k and run to your ack? That's all I've ever seen your D pony do.
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Climb to 25k and run to your ack? That's all I've ever seen your D pony do.
Tch Tch Tch Tch :frown:
Lets all play nicely :lol
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Climb to 25k and run to your ack? That's all I've ever seen your D pony do.
Lol one time. Also I climbed to 25k to meet you and your squadie in 109's. Gave you ample chance to break off I flew a sector away but you chose to follow me in.
I Guess when you left your afk squaddie to shoot a much lower contact & LEFT HIM to die at my hands you had to try make it right by him. The second time I met you I was very light on fuel never dropped in to ack you hit me thought I was down & I was not you turned for some one else & I nailed you. You cried on 200 on both occasions & your still bitter now get over it.
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One of those common weknesses of character I so often see in the game is where literally an often large group of be it Bish, Rook or knight are after one enemy fast plane. Its usually a 51 or a 190 and they deride the pilot without a hint of irony for running away and not standing and fighting.
They derride the runner because he is depriving them of their sport :( :rolleyes:
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I would perk the Nikki, Spit 16 and La7. People in AH build up huge perk reserves because these unperked planes are the rides of choice.
I see what your saying here about people not spending perks on these uber rides, but your not earning very many perks in these rides either, a good balance in my book. (I do like earning alot of perkies shooting these planes down though!)
My success in the 14 comes from what I call the soup ladle approach. Dip down, bring it up, then eat it. Rinse and repeat. Always work the vertical with the 14, as this is where she truly shines! I have ended up on the deck fighting with it, and you have a pretty fair chance against 1-2 cons. More than that, and the 14's instabilities really become a handicap.
This is how I normally fly the 14, the key IMO is finding some balance. Come in from outer space and yeah your going to be carrying to much speed if left unchecked, come in to slow and yeah that Spixteen is going to catch you on the top of your rope. This is just my experience though, take it for what it's worth.
<S>
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Thanks Ill try that and adjust my stick with more deadband and steaper scaling.
I think baring in mind the realtively modest increase in performance except up high the 9 and 8 are a much better balance. The 14 I think is the same plane as the 8 with a bigger longer engine that is probably too much for the air frame to handle and unbalances the whole thing for an inusfficient gain in top speed.
To resurect a well worn debate with all the 14's weaknesses I am surprised it is so highly perked if even perked at all.
I would perk the Nikki, Spit 16 and La7. People in AH build up huge perk reserves because these unperked planes are the rides of choice.
Might want LESS deadband!
I've found several planes I prefer get into a wobble and eventually fall out of the sky with too much deadband. Guess I get into a tight situation and too much deadband gets me to overcompensating and I get into the wobble and sometimes fall out of the sky.
For me less deadband made that stop.
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Last time I saw a spit 14 was several months a go. Usually see 16s, 8s, and 9s.
You might just try flying it more to learn it. While all the spits are very forgiving, the 14 is the least forgiving of the bunch. Like any other plane stick time is the secret.
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Like any other plane stick time is the secret.
I agree Shuffler. I know have multiple sorties under my belt (not all with kills) but I certainly have a better feeling for this beast. I swap back to my 9 for building the perks to play with the 14.
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Since I almost always fly the 38 I have plenty of perks..... over 20,000 in fighter alone.
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Since I almost always fly the 38 I have plenty of perks..... over 20,000 in fighter alone.
Want to sell a couple on the side? wink wink nod nod I can pay you in cold hard Piggy Bucks! :D
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Always work the vertical with the 14, as this is where she truly shines!
Yup. And right turns, not left. Needs a lot of attention to the rudder. Because it's a Spitfire people naturally think that it's a great turn-fighter. It isn't. But it really does go up up up.
- oldman
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But it really does go up up up.
- oldman
Oh and the sound of that engine when you kick the wep in and she roars and turns her nose straight up to the sun like it can actually make it there! WOOT WOOT :x
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:rofl
I've seen many posts from folks that wished they could donate or move perks from one account to another. I can see it now...... fade to....
<dream> ..... hey Guido whatsa ya say to knockin off da f6f dat keepsa pickin me.... for tirty poiks.... aye </dream>.
:rofl
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Lol one time. Also I climbed to 25k to meet you and your squadie in 109's. Gave you ample chance to break off I flew a sector away but you chose to follow me in.
I Guess when you left your afk squaddie to shoot a much lower contact & LEFT HIM to die at my hands you had to try make it right by him. The second time I met you I was very light on fuel never dropped in to ack you hit me thought I was down & I was not you turned for some one else & I nailed you. You cried on 200 on both occasions & your still bitter now get over it.
LMAO Don't make this into anything it wasn't. You Came in at 18k and climbed up to 25k. You had more alt/e the whole time and still wouldn't fight. Don't take my word for it, here's the film http://www.dasmuppets.com/public/Suns/lyric1_runtard.ahf. People who refuse a 1 v 1, in my opinion are the lowest level of scum in this game. This game is about shooting at each other, not being a little girl and running a sector to hide in your ack.
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LMAO Don't make this into anything it wasn't. You Came in at 18k and climbed up to 25k. You had more alt/e the whole time and still wouldn't fight. Don't take my word for it, here's the film http://www.dasmuppets.com/public/Suns/lyric1_runtard.ahf. People who refuse a 1 v 1, in my opinion are the lowest level of scum in this game. This game is about shooting at each other, not being a little girl and running a sector to hide in your ack.
Oh my God you are bitter kept that film for all these months & it was months ago. Enjoy your moment in the sun & try and get a life out side of AHII. LOWEST LEVEL OF SCUM OUT. ;)
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If the Mk.XIV flew in real life like it does in AH2 then I'll eat my socks.
Unperk the Mk.XIV btw.
Well maybe you better get that iron stomach of yours ready :)
I don't have the excerpt with me, but the manual for the Spitfire XIV (or some briefing I read) stated that full throttle was not recommended for take-off due to the extreme torque experienced.
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It is a vertical monster if flown correctly. I've found that you can quite often climb the rope of a K4 & send them to the tower.
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Torque runs the opposite way, as mentioned.
However, wing gas tanks on auto-fuel-select burn the WRONG wing tank first. In "normal" planes you drain the left wing first, because that dips first in a stall. Planes like a corsair, you leave a little in the right wing tank, to help even out the stall.
In the spit14, the auto select burns the entire left tank first. Because the torque rolls the other way, you WANT to burn the right tank first, otherwise you're making any stall/departure that much harder to control or avoid. Set it on manual, burn the right tank off, burn the left tank (leave a little in, if you like, RTB insurrance), and then manually select the main tank or DT after that.
Of course, doing this has its downside, as I've sputtered out and had to switch tanks in the middle of a dogfight as my right wing went dry!
Overall, it doesn't make it "perfect" but I think it really helps how the spit14 flies.
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Torque runs the opposite way, as mentioned.
However, wing gas tanks on auto-fuel-select burn the WRONG wing tank first. In "normal" planes you drain the left wing first, because that dips first in a stall. Planes like a corsair, you leave a little in the right wing tank, to help even out the stall.
In the spit14, the auto select burns the entire left tank first. Because the torque rolls the other way, you WANT to burn the right tank first, otherwise you're making any stall/departure that much harder to control or avoid. Set it on manual, burn the right tank off, burn the left tank (leave a little in, if you like, RTB insurrance), and then manually select the main tank or DT after that.
Of course, doing this has its downside, as I've sputtered out and had to switch tanks in the middle of a dogfight as my right wing went dry!
Overall, it doesn't make it "perfect" but I think it really helps how the spit14 flies.
Thanks Krusty I always burn the left first (like a Muppet) I find the drop tank has less effect so i burn the wings then the drop tank. If someone is on your six basically break right and if you turn into someone to aquire their six or a snapshot turn right I guess with the torque.
I fly the 14 as much as I can afford and the 8 to get the perks back though I can see the 9 would get them quicker. I like the 8 though because in my opinion it handles more like the 14 and off course has 40 minutes on full power to payu with plus you have to remember to burn the wings first starting of course with the left.
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When I fly spits (unperked) I lean toward the 8 for the extra range, as well.
Then again, I often fly longer sorties, cruising, finding a fight, etc. I don't just go in on the deck to get dogpiled (that happens no matter what alt I'm at!).
The 14 is a fun plane. I would say, however, that the handling issues eat away at the effectiveness of the zoom/climb rate. It's because I'm over-controlling it too much. Same goes with any plane, any flight surface adds drag, so if you're really smooth on the controls, you get better E retention. At least for me (and others I've shot down) overcontrolling the 14 leads to E loss and hurts the performance.
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When I fly spits (unperked) I lean toward the 8 for the extra range, as well.
I actually prefer the 8 over any other Spit, regardless of any range benefits. It just feels more stable.
Could be in my head, but my kill ratio in the 8 is certainly better than in the 16 or the 9. For me it's by far the best all-around furballer...not just amongst Spits, but period. There may be better 1v1 rides, but for mass chaos scenarios I freaking love the Spit8.
As for the 14, the "Spit" monicker is practically false advertising. I've rarely seen them flown effectively.
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Oh my God you are bitter kept that film for all these months & it was months ago. Enjoy your moment in the sun & try and get a life out side of AHII. LOWEST LEVEL OF SCUM OUT. ;)
Watched the film. Yikes lyric1. :eek:
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Spit XIV vs Tempest.
http://www.mediafire.com/?nwxjmex3gmj (http://www.mediafire.com/?nwxjmex3gmj)
My regards,
Widewing
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If you're flying a Spit XIV to the point of wobbling and departure generally you're flying it wrong. That said there may be times against it's peers (P51D, 109K4, etc.) that you may want to do so but the XIV will eat any of those alive in that type of fight. The XVI also has poor extreme low speed handling and the departure charachteristics between them is similar although the XVI seems slightly more forgiving simply because it turns better.
The XIV is a monster at every alt if flown to it's strengths.
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The K4 will eat the 14s lunch in a low/slow turning type fight...vertical too. K4 handles much better at those speeds...much better.
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Yup. And right turns, not left. Needs a lot of attention to the rudder. Because it's a Spitfire people naturally think that it's a great turn-fighter. It isn't. But it really does go up up up.
- oldman
Yep, folks expect it to turn like a Spit V. it's not.
It was roughly 2000 pounds heavier then the Spit 8. The torque was much more noticable with the Griffon engine. The tail surfaces on the XIV were made bigger but still didn't really do the job until the mark 22 and 24 Spits with the even larger tail.
If you read up on the XIV it's greatest asset was it's climbing ability. Peter Brothers who flew everything from Spit Is in the B of B to VIIs to XIVs said that the XIV gave LW pilots a shock in that it could basically stand on it's tail and go straight up into the fight.
It's really a different bird then the Merlin Spits and to expect it to fly like a Merlin Spit is silly, in particular due to the extra weight and the engine turning the prop in the other direction so the torque is different too.
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It's really a different bird then the Merlin Spits and to expect it to fly like a Merlin Spit is silly, in particular due to the extra weight and the engine turning the prop in the other direction so the torque is different too.
This thread has been very helpfull for me. I understand now the 14 needs to be flown within certain limits and with perhaps more skill and control than allot of other planes in the game. In that sense it has another advantage over the other spits as in its far more of a challenge to get the best out of it.
The write up by Soda is inaccurate in my opinion as it doesnt metion the handling issues and says it behaves like a spit 9 which it doesn't.
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imagine it as an unholy cross between a pony and a typhie and you cant go far wrong :aok
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Its a 109 in spits clothing. Handles nothing like the spit 8 or 9.
Its a high alt design, that really only shines at high alts.
IMO the thing is almost unmatched below 10k in climb rate..It is an absolute monster in the vert...Thats how I fly it anyways strait up and down... Although I have not flown it in along time...I really never fly any of the spits ,but if I do I love the spit 14 :salute
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The K4 will eat the 14s lunch in a low/slow turning type fight...vertical too. K4 handles much better at those speeds...much better.
I dont no about the vertical part :aok
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LMAO Don't make this into anything it wasn't. You Came in at 18k and climbed up to 25k. You had more alt/e the whole time and still wouldn't fight. Don't take my word for it, here's the film http://www.dasmuppets.com/public/Suns/lyric1_runtard.ahf. People who refuse a 1 v 1, in my opinion are the lowest level of scum in this game. This game is about shooting at each other, not being a little girl and running a sector to hide in your ack.
Have to agree with Sunsfan.
I had several run ins with Lyric1 and even thought he was flying a spit with more E he wouldn't engage, yet when I would turn away because I don't feel like climbing on someone's six up to the moon he would turn back onto me, setting himself up to 1.5 k out on my six. Reverse, he would point upwards, rinse and repeat. This all at ~15k.
Lmao.
Plus 1 on those who don't want 1 on 1's being who they are.
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Have to agree with Sunsfan.
I had several run ins with Lyric1 and even thought he was flying a spit with more E he wouldn't engage, yet when I would turn away because I don't feel like climbing on someone's six up to the moon he would turn back onto me, setting himself up to 1.5 k out on my six. Reverse, he would point upwards, rinse and repeat. This all at ~15k.
Lmao.
Plus 1 on those who don't want 1 on 1's being who they are.
This thread is not about me or how I choose to fly. The thread has merits in regards to Spit-14's so don't hijack a thread with pointless issues & petty pet peeves. Start a whole new one about me if you feel you need to. :aok
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Im not an expert on any plane, but I too find that flying the Spit14 as if I were in a 38/K-4/Spit9 cross-breed between the speeds of 300-400mph makes for a very lethal ride. Speed is a must, but if in a bind dont forget a few things (much as has already been metnioned): turn RIGHT; dont forget the snap roll (to the RIGHT) to help with turning tight; the WEP is like injecting steriods into the strongest man in the world (save it for when needed) and it can out accel or sprint climb/dive anything in the game with WEP on (yes, even the K-4).
Keep in mind that the 109K-4 turns far worse to the right that the Spit4 turns to the left. Up high (23k+), the Spit14 and the P47N are in a league of their own. A combo of engine power and wing load make them kings of the hill up high for dogfighting. I only wish I had more of an opportunity to dogfih up high in the MA and I'd take both planes up more often.
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This thread is not about me or how I choose to fly. The thread has merits in regards to Spit-14's so don't hijack a thread with pointless issues & petty pet peeves. Start a whole new one about me if you feel you need to. :aok
That was one for the wall of shame :eek:
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That was one for the wall of shame :eek:
It also was edited so kills never showed to I might add.
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nope, not edited at all. that's the film from the time i took off until i died.
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Have to agree with Sunsfan.
I had several run ins with Lyric1 and even thought he was flying a spit with more E he wouldn't engage, yet when I would turn away because I don't feel like climbing on someone's six up to the moon he would turn back onto me, setting himself up to 1.5 k out on my six. Reverse, he would point upwards, rinse and repeat. This all at ~15k.
Lmao.
Plus 1 on those who don't want 1 on 1's being who they are.
I have to say as this is my thread that I wish people would let others just get on and play there own game. If someone wont engage me 1 to 1 for whatever reason I find someone who will if thats what I am doing.
I find far too many people spend a very large part of their game moaning and whingeing about how others play.
Somewhere in here is a ww2 sim and if you want a flavour of that experience and follow the teachings of great fighter aces you need to grab the advantage and kill the vulnerable. That is the game for some people and to see how it pans out. To get many kills and stay alive means fighting only when you have the advantage. Securing, using and maintaining the advantage is the skill which you then try to perfect. From this angle the game is defiantely not about dying. We make our own assesment of the situation and sometimes are more reckless than we should be other times too cautious. It is the individual players decision and never the opponent.
I find the lowest scum in the game those who come on here and moan and complain about how people play because they dont get the kills they want. How pathetic is that. Learn how the game works and play it stop telling eveyone else to play it your way its not yours to decide for others or get back on your play station and set it to the easiest level.
Someone was PMing me the other day because I wouldnt take him and his squaddie on 2 to 1 though I did kill him anyway and then got away while he bled to death. If my game is to kill and not be killed why should I jump in when I think the odds are against me. To satisfy some teenager brain who really should be playing an arcade game or shutting up :mad:
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Excellent post!
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awesome at 15k plus but how many times are there furballs at that height :confused:
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awesome at 15k plus but how many times are there furballs at that height :confused:
True but its for diving in and out and being accused of picking in :D
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True but its for diving in and out and being accused of picking in :D
Rolls too poorly at high speed and rips its wings off too easily.
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Rolls too poorly at high speed and rips its wings off too easily.
That is the tricky part. I managed to kill an IL2 and an LA5 yesterday doing just that but it was a case off will I get out of the dive every time. Its a handfull. The advantage is you dont have to come in quite so fast as say in a p51 becuase you have the MONSTER climb out on full WEP. If you do get caught low at least you have acceleration and turn ability over a 51. Hence I reckon it is a very challenging plane to fly like this but has great pottentila for this style of atack. With the monster climb I like it for beating someone down to the ground or roping them as they attempt to get you in a follow on. I would say most planes have little defence against this the main risk is someone else joining the fight. :x :uhoh
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Looking at the stats it does seem that below 20k the only difference between the spit 8 and 14 is 20mph on top speed. Climb rates seem very similar the same gun package can be obtained with the spit 16. For that 20 mph you loose allot in handling over both the 16 and the 8 :frown:
I guess though the 20 Mph takes you into the top of the pack. I can see how the 14 shines over 20-25 k but how often do you fight up there and f or how long?
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And if somebody else arrives above you to join the fight you had best be a much better pilot than they as the Spit XIV does not have the handling to out manuever much, heck, the La-7 practically out turns it.
In addition your Spit XIV will get additional attention from the emeny for two reasons 1) it is a perk plane and 2) it is very rare.
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And if somebody else arrives above you to join the fight you had best be a much better pilot than they as the Spit XIV does not have the handling to out manuever much, heck, the La-7 practically out turns it.
In addition your Spit XIV will get additional attention from the emeny for two reasons 1) it is a perk plane and 2) it is very rare.
Yes rare for good reason :D
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Yes rare for good reason :D
Because they are no better than many free fighters and yet carry a perk price.
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Because they are no better than many free fighters and yet carry a perk price.
I am not sure its the perk that puts people off as much as the challenge of getiing it right. I do think the perk is unecessary though and un perked I dont think it would be much more popular.
Its a plane you have to really want to get to know.
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It is pretty obvious how to use them, just not a lot of fun to be hunted when you are in something that can't disengage easily (Tempest, Me262) and doesn't have a really strong advantage compared to its free bretheren (F4U-1C) for the price.
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I am not sure its the perk that puts people off as much as the challenge of getiing it right. I do think the perk is unecessary though and un perked I dont think it would be much more popular.
Its a plane you have to really want to get to know.
I agree with all of this.
- oldman
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just dont fly a spit lol, takes more skill to up a mans play (P-47) and accually fight in it :rock
-BigBOBCH
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just dont fly a spit lol, takes more skill to up a mans play (P-47) and accually fight in it :rock
-BigBOBCH
P-47 is fairly easy compared to the Spit XIV in my experience.
As to being a man, I'll leave that between me and my wife. Certainly my choices in a computer game are not the basis on which I value my masculinity.
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I had the pleasure of taking up a Spit14 lately, if you can adjust for the reverse torque compared to other aircraft, it is a real killer. If you watch the G load, you can BnZ at will (it has a better climb rate than a 109K at some alts), it can turn decently, and has the same gun package as many of the other spits.
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I had the pleasure of taking up a Spit14 lately, if you can adjust for the reverse torque compared to other aircraft, it is a real killer.
Seriouslyu this is the thing I always forget.
Must write out 100x Reverse torque
Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque
Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque Reverse torque makes 100 :o
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Must write out 100x Reverse torque
It doesn't count if you just copy and paste repeatedly. ;)
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In my opinion it's low usage is due to its top speed and handling at low speeds.
It's not fast enough to run away from several aircraft commonly found in the MA primarily the p51, la7, tiffie, 109k4 and the 190d9. Building an E advantage over a con or several cons, especially if one of them has an altitude advantage is a lot more challenging than pushing the nose down to disengage.
The spit14's subpar low speed handling and departure charactersics make it a poor aircraft get slow and stall fight. The best option is to once again try and build an E advantage over the enemy.
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In my opinion it's low usage is due to its top speed and handling at low speeds.
It's not fast enough to run away from several aircraft commonly found in the MA primarily the p51, la7, tiffie, 109k4 and the 190d9. Building an E advantage over a con or several cons, especially if one of them has an altitude advantage is a lot more challenging than pushing the nose down to disengage.
The spit14's subpar low speed handling and departure charactersics make it a poor aircraft get slow and stall fight. The best option is to once again try and build an E advantage over the enemy.
And dont forget to use the revers torque ;)
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In my opinion it should be unperked or remodeled at +21lbs boost on 150 octane fuel.
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The only thing that a perk tag does is attracting attackers, which can be a good thing sometimes. The perk cost itself is a joke - I bet 90% of the AH players can afford flying the 14 for half a year, exclusively, and still have perks to spare. Out of those, 20% can fly it for a decade, not land a single sortie, and spare perks.
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That attracting attackers issue is why I didn't fly it much.
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I bet 90% of the AH players can afford flying the 14 for half a year, exclusively, and still have perks to spare.
I think, you are grossly overrating the average AH player, his skill level and perk pile. The guys with thousands of perks are an absolute minority. Keep in mind: 80% of all AH players don't even manage to get a K/D of 1.0, 50% of all players have a K/D of 0.3 or less, the average K/S is less than 0.4. That's pretty small gain in perks per tour if you consider that most of those kills are being achieved in ENY 5-8 planes (Spit 16, P51D, N1k...)
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Ok, i'm a little bit embarassed i didn't notice this years ago, but it looks like the spit14's fuel tanks are a bit squiffy.
It appears a wing tank and main tank are mixed up, it could just be a labelling error, but if it could explain some of the handlin characteristics.... :noid You spit14 aficionados should have a look at the different rates fuel is burnt in the wing tanks offline.
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I never noticed anything funny about them. The wing tanks are 11 gallons each as I recall and they drain much faster than the main tanks.
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The left tank definately drains fuel 3 times slower than the right.
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By god, I never frakking noticed this!!!!
Did a little testing offline. The tank labeled "LW" has 45 gals; the tank labeled "RW" has 15 gals; the tank labeled "NU" has 15 gals; the tank labeled "Main" has 58 gals.
Cranked fuel burn to 10000, manually selected a tank while sitting on runway, started engine and it sputtered dry before I rolled. Check E6B readout to get gallons (rounded to nearest gallon).
I'll try a test in a few minutes to see if I can trim for level flight, drain "LW" and see if I start rolling right or if I stay level.
That will tell us if the labels are simply wrong, or if the tanks themselves have been placed in the wrong place on the flight model.
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How to fly it ?..It's the ultimate rope plane.Don't let the nme see the 14 icon,try and blend in like a normal spit and set up a death rope..and at the top flip her over to the right,not left because of the tourque and hit flaps.Werks evrytime.
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Okay, I took off with 0 fuel burn, leveled off, throttled back a bit (so as not to fight torque so badly) and trimmed for level flight as best I could, doing around 270-270 IAS at 4k.
Manually selected left wing tank, pulled up arena settings, set drain to 50x, let it empty the tank and entered "0" and hit "okay" as soon as the fuel was gone, switched tanks really quick to restart motor. The intent was to not lose forward speed, and to get the prop going again so the torque was already trimmed for.
I started rolling noticably to the right after draining the "LW" tank. The only thing that stabilized this was to repeat the process with the "RW" tank.
So it's not a matter of mis-labeled tanks, it's a matter of the tanks being wrong, but in the right places. This definitely could be a major reason the spit14 has been unstable. Also the left wing tank drains first, which at first wouldn't be too bad, but as it has almost 40% of the total fuel in it, the weight loss makes the balance of the plane fight against torque.
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Okay, I took off with 0 fuel burn, leveled off, throttled back a bit (so as not to fight torque so badly) and trimmed for level flight as best I could, doing around 270-270 IAS at 4k.
Manually selected left wing tank, pulled up arena settings, set drain to 50x, let it empty the tank and entered "0" and hit "okay" as soon as the fuel was gone, switched tanks really quick to restart motor. The intent was to not lose forward speed, and to get the prop going again so the torque was already trimmed for.
I started rolling noticably to the right after draining the "LW" tank. The only thing that stabilized this was to repeat the process with the "RW" tank.
So it's not a matter of mis-labeled tanks, it's a matter of the tanks being wrong, but in the right places. This definitely could be a major reason the spit14 has been unstable. Also the left wing tank drains first, which at first wouldn't be too bad, but as it has almost 40% of the total fuel in it, the weight loss makes the balance of the plane fight against torque.
Can we get HTC to fix this???
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Did a little testing offline. The tank labeled "LW" has 45 gals; the tank labeled "RW" has 15 gals; the tank labeled "NU" has 15 gals; the tank labeled "Main" has 58 gals.
wow well spotted :aok always wondered why the "NU" tank drains so much faster than the wing tanks. and indeed what "NU" stands for :confused:
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I can't believe none of us noticed this years ago. :lol just goes to show how observent we are. :D
Nice work krusty, i wasn't sure if the LW and NU tank were simply mislabelled or physically swapped in the model.
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Wouldn't the right tank being smaller in capacity..aide in stability?Remember the tourque is opposite in spit14...
So the wise thing would be to drain right tank first.Auto select fuel burn should work the right side first after the DT is empty otherwise it is making the plane unstable by burning left first.
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That's why I pointed out before that the spit14 "auto" burns the left wing first. The odd part was that even though the left wing has 3x as much gallons in it, it didn't weigh much more than the right tank. That is, at least, it didn't cause more rolling than the right wing. Emptying both left the plane neutrally trimmed.
I first drained "LW" to get the roll towards the right going. On a hunch I burned off "NU" next, but my conclussion is that it is located in the fuselage, because it did not affect roll. I then drained "RW" and after that was empty and I was back on my last tank ("Main"), the roll was balanced out and I could take my hand off the stick with almost no roll. It was back where I had originally trimmed it.
So left and right wings balance each other out, but the damage is reversed, and the left holds way more gas (but not 3x as roll from the gas weight???)
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So left and right wings balance each other out, but the damage is reversed, and the left holds way more gas (but not 3x as roll from the gas weight???)
So could you simply explain what effect if any the 3x right left wing fuel tank has on performance?
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I would assume that roll rate would be drastically affected, as would low speed maneuvering/stability with that much more fuel on one side then the other. That would shift the CoG dangerously out to one side, I'd think.
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I would assume that roll rate would be drastically affected, as would low speed maneuvering/stability with that much more fuel on one side then the other. That would shift the CoG dangerously out to one side, I'd think.
Agreed but I think I am deducing that the fuel but not the weight is in the left Wing and so the vrtual world loses touch with reality here.
In this case I assume appart from having to burn too much of the overall fuel to get the wings empty no other effect effect.
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Only person who can really answer that with any kind of certainty is hitech.
I'd be surprised if he put twice as much gas in one wing then the other and not had the mass computed at the same time. Not saying Krusty's tests are invalid, nor am I saying that was the design spec of the a/c- I simply don't know. But I can bet that if you tell a computer a wonky value like that, it could DEFINITELY explain some of the Spit XIV's quirks.
From what I understand, you're saying that even though the game says there's a huge amount of gas in the left wing as opposed to the right wing, but the weights are acting as if they are equal, and therefore cancel each other out. Is this correct?
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I wonder if anyone has seen any written accounts of its performance. :pray
Perhaps if we had some data we could get Hi Tech to re work it a bit. At the moment we have high perks and crap handling or the worst of both worlds. I would say remove the perk or take the rough edge of it. It cant be both a perked ride and bagger to fly. Dont make sense :huh
Sorry to chime in late on this. I noticed the focus of conversation has moved to the fuel tanks but here ya go:
http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spitfire-XIV.html (http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spitfire-XIV.html)
http://www.spitfireperformance.com/rb141handling.html (http://www.spitfireperformance.com/rb141handling.html)
http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spit14afdu.html (http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spit14afdu.html)
http://www.spitfireperformance.com/109gtacvspit14.html (http://www.spitfireperformance.com/109gtacvspit14.html)
http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/ (http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/)
Pretty much any data you want (performance wise) from actual historical documentation. Someone in that last link are some after action reports from actual P51 pilots.
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Thanks particularly to Krusty (and me) for getting this dealt with.
Now Krusty can you get the Mossie sorted :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Thanks particularly to Krusty (and me) for getting this dealt with.
Now Krusty can you get the Mossie sorted :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :rofl :rofl :rofl
Krusty has said the Mossie doesn't need the dampers removed.
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Krusty has said the Mossie doesn't need the dampers removed.
I know but perhaps now in the light of the Spit 14 success we should review the evidence?