Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Getback on July 01, 2009, 04:37:04 PM
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I'm stunned! Haven't had any money since Jan. 24, 2009. I was denied for refusing work back in January. I refused it because it was almost a 50% cut in pay and no benefits. It just didn't seem a valid offer. Wow, was that the wrong thing to do. Once denied I filed an appeal immediately. However the state misplaced my appeal for 30 days. So I called my state representative to see what could be done. There I was helped by his assistant, I'll call her Karen. She was flabbergasted and said she would look into it. I thought sure, that would be the last time I heard from her. However a couple of weeks later she was back in touch with me. The thing is she called me ever couple of weeks to ask how things were going and offer moral support as well as advice. When it looked like I was going to lose she gave me several lists of resources to get help and also a list of pro-bono attorneys.
Prior to the appeal date I went to the local law library plus the College library and studied unemployment compensation law for 2 days. I found nothing in my favor. Every case I read ended poorly. My only it hope it seemed was that I could use an odd part of the law that said an offer had to be in writing or posted on the Workforce development website. To do that I had to prove the job offered wasn't on the site and prove my employment contract was void or invalid. Another hitch to this was that the particular line of law referenced extended periods of compensation. Further I had been sent to this assignment about 3.5 years ago. So would that set precedent and say that my contract is therefor valid because of my actions. Another thought crossed my mind too. That is on the on-line form I said I hadn't "worked" the job before. Will they get me for lying. My reasoning there was that I hadn't actually done the work. I went there but was sent home with the minimum hours required by the contract. So I would have to make that case as well. My logic was "If I stayed at home and they paid me would that be work"?
Prior to the hearing I did several searches on the position using different algorithms (correct use) and didn't find the position posted. So I printed my searches out. I then reviewed my employment contract which showed the job offer was below my contract price. That may prove to help my cause. Still that pesky acceptance from 3.5 years ago. It was all I had though.
At the law library I didn't find one case that referred to that particular code of law. Nada, nothing, no precedent. When I left the library I told the librarian, I'm going to lose. I ambled back to my car, head down, deep in thought. So deep in thought I had to remind myself, hey bub, you're driving and there's traffic. Then it hit me. What if it's not a valid job offer from the start. Now in these hearings you don't have to prove beyond the shadow of a doubt, proof in civil cases can be much less. I forget the terminology. Also, if you use documents you have to send them to both parties even if the have the material they have to know it's going to be presented.
However, my new approach didn't necessarily need the documents. Still they would help some. So I faxed them to the judge and not to the defending party. It cost nearly $20 bucks to do so. I reasoned out 2 things. The defendants should have easy access to the information and I was always told Judges are human. So I figured that the judge would scan them at least. It would somewhat give me a silent voice since I really wasn't going to go with the documents and yet the documents support the facts.
The Hearing
When the hearing started, I was asked if I refused the job. I said yes. The company representative then answered a few questions. In detail she missed several important facts. She said the job was a professional position and stated that I made less in my previous assignment than I had by a substantial margin.
When it was my turn, I corrected the details saying the job was for a receptionist and then the correct amount of pay associated with the position. No rebuttal from her. I was then asked why I refused the job. Here's where my brainstorming session comes in. I said yes I did refuse the work. The reason is, my supervisor could not tell me where I would be working, when I would be working, or how many hours I would be working. To emphasize the point I restated, "She could not tell me the location I would be working. Further it was 50% of my regular wages with no benefits. Then I reemphasized the point (I really want to make sure it sunk in) I asked her 2 times for this information. She could not give it to me". Not letting go of that thought, I said, in the past I have always known where I would be working, when I would be working, and the hours I would be working. This company is usually very good about providing that information. (Goal here was to puts some doubts about it being a valid job). Then when she spoke again, she inadvertently supported me and to seal the deal, she back tracked on what she said earlier. In order, she said this job is different from the others (Proves point my point about job details). Then she really stuck her foot in her mouth, "Yes they start out secretarial but then they move to professional" (Remember she said they start out professional). In closing I had nothing else to add. She ended by saying something she told the judge she wrote down, 'My thoughts at the time is that the job was beneath him". I let it go. No sense in bickering and besides I made my point thanks to her.
More than anything I feel fortunate. I sure didn't expect a positive outcome.
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It sounds like you put a good deal of effort and hard work into this. Someday, a company will be very lucky to hire you. I'm glad it worked out for you! :salute
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WTG!! Getback! :aok
That's the way to Fight the Power!
People forget we are a nation of laws...I've gone through some similar issues where "opponents" violated procedure giving me the win, but, never have I had to go to a hearing.
Proves Homework leads to AHII Dues!! :O
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Thanks guys!! I was very fortunate. There were so many thoughts in my head I wondered if I could keep them straight even though I wrote them down.
When I reflect upon the hearing. I don't think the company representative saw it coming, that is, what I was trying to prove. I stayed away from the phrase invalid offer intentionally. Another thing I stayed away from was my education level. I had spoken with my brother about a week ago. He said, "Do not come across as if the job was beneath you". So I omitted anything that would focus on that issue. Also, one of the reasons I didn't rebut against those words from my opponent is I didn't want to emphasize her point.
Addendum: Not sure if I made it clear on one issue. When she said the job was professional and then said it was secretarial it wasn't a matter of that she lied. It supported my point that the job was invalid. That is even the person offering the job was confused on what the job was; hence, no real certainty.
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Way to get back Getback!
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...So deep in thought I had to remind myself, hey bub, you're driving and there's traffic...
Thanks for reminding yourself. Otherwise I wouldn't have my buddy to poke fun at. :D
Nice one GetBack! I'm glad it worked out for you.
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Thanks for reminding yourself. Otherwise I wouldn't have my buddy to poke fun at. :D
Nice one GetBack! I'm glad it worked out for you.
:rofl :rofl :rofl :salute
I'm still good target material. :lol
One of my strength's and yet my weakness is I sometimes get into such deep thought I can't see a way out.
Stayed up last night until 3:30 a.m. studying a difficult accounting concept. Just couldn't let it go.
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I'm stunned! Haven't had any money since Jan. 24, 2009. I was denied for refusing work back in January. I refused it because it was almost a 50% cut in pay and no benefits. It just didn't seem a valid offer. Wow, was that the wrong thing to do. Once denied I filed an appeal immediately. However the state misplaced my appeal for 30 days. So I called my state representative to see what could be done. There I was helped by his assistant, I'll call her Karen. She was flabbergasted and said she would look into it. I thought sure, that would be the last time I heard from her. However a couple of weeks later she was back in touch with me. The thing is she called me ever couple of weeks to ask how things were going and offer moral support as well as advice. When it looked like I was going to lose she gave me several lists of resources to get help and also a list of pro-bono attorneys.
Prior to the appeal date I went to the local law library plus the College library and studied unemployment compensation law for 2 days. I found nothing in my favor. Every case I read ended poorly. My only it hope it seemed was that I could use an odd part of the law that said an offer had to be in writing or posted on the Workforce development website. To do that I had to prove the job offered wasn't on the site and prove my employment contract was void or invalid. Another hitch to this was that the particular line of law referenced extended periods of compensation. Further I had been sent to this assignment about 3.5 years ago. So would that set precedent and say that my contract is therefor valid because of my actions. Another thought crossed my mind too. That is on the on-line form I said I hadn't "worked" the job before. Will they get me for lying. My reasoning there was that I hadn't actually done the work. I went there but was sent home with the minimum hours required by the contract. So I would have to make that case as well. My logic was "If I stayed at home and they paid me would that be work"?
Prior to the hearing I did several searches on the position using different algorithms (correct use) and didn't find the position posted. So I printed my searches out. I then reviewed my employment contract which showed the job offer was below my contract price. That may prove to help my cause. Still that pesky acceptance from 3.5 years ago. It was all I had though.
At the law library I didn't find one case that referred to that particular code of law. Nada, nothing, no precedent. When I left the library I told the librarian, I'm going to lose. I ambled back to my car, head down, deep in thought. So deep in thought I had to remind myself, hey bub, you're driving and there's traffic. Then it hit me. What if it's not a valid job offer from the start. Now in these hearings you don't have to prove beyond the shadow of a doubt, proof in civil cases can be much less. I forget the terminology. Also, if you use documents you have to send them to both parties even if the have the material they have to know it's going to be presented.
However, my new approach didn't necessarily need the documents. Still they would help some. So I faxed them to the judge and not to the defending party. It cost nearly $20 bucks to do so. I reasoned out 2 things. The defendants should have easy access to the information and I was always told Judges are human. So I figured that the judge would scan them at least. It would somewhat give me a silent voice since I really wasn't going to go with the documents and yet the documents support the facts.
The Hearing
When the hearing started, I was asked if I refused the job. I said yes. The company representative then answered a few questions. In detail she missed several important facts. She said the job was a professional position and stated that I made less in my previous assignment than I had by a substantial margin.
When it was my turn, I corrected the details saying the job was for a receptionist and then the correct amount of pay associated with the position. No rebuttal from her. I was then asked why I refused the job. Here's where my brainstorming session comes in. I said yes I did refuse the work. The reason is, my supervisor could not tell me where I would be working, when I would be working, or how many hours I would be working. To emphasize the point I restated, "She could not tell me the location I would be working. Further it was 50% of my regular wages with no benefits. Then I reemphasized the point (I really want to make sure it sunk in) I asked her 2 times for this information. She could not give it to me". Not letting go of that thought, I said, in the past I have always known where I would be working, when I would be working, and the hours I would be working. This company is usually very good about providing that information. (Goal here was to puts some doubts about it being a valid job). Then when she spoke again, she inadvertently supported me and to seal the deal, she back tracked on what she said earlier. In order, she said this job is different from the others (Proves point my point about job details). Then she really stuck her foot in her mouth, "Yes they start out secretarial but then they move to professional" (Remember she said they start out professional). In closing I had nothing else to add. She ended by saying something she told the judge she wrote down, 'My thoughts at the time is that the job was beneath him". I let it go. No sense in bickering and besides I made my point thanks to her.
More than anything I feel fortunate. I sure didn't expect a positive outcome.
i didn;t even read it all the way.
you refused work??????
you don;t deserve unemployment then. work at a paycut(and yes, i HAVE done it) is better than no work.
i'm not trying to be an arse, but face it...you apparently had an offer which you refused, which is grounds for refusing your unemployment.
sorry dude.......i normally agree with most i see you post here.....but this i cannot.......
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i didn;t even read it all the way.
you refused work??????
you don;t deserve unemployment then. work at a paycut(and yes, i HAVE done it) is better than no work.
i'm not trying to be an arse, but face it...you apparently had an offer which you refused, which is grounds for refusing your unemployment.
sorry dude.......i normally agree with most i see you post here.....but this i cannot.......
I don't totally disagree with you and I take no offense. Honestly I thought at the time I could find a more suitable job. Trust me, I will take the next job offer. For the record, I'm 55 and have worked as a pizza deliver boy in my 40s, delivered newspapers in my 30s, bailed hay when I was young along with shoveling cow manure. Also I've worked in factories and warehouses. Up until this year, I have only claimed about 2 weeks of unemployment. Said that wasn't for a young man like me and took a job carrying hodd.
The job offer was temporary for only 2 weeks. I actually said I would take it when they offered it as a Tax preparer. I got up got dressed and as I was about to walk out the door they called and canceled. Then they delayed again. Then they changed the job description. I honestly think it was a setup. Finally on the 3rd attempt to go to work I just said the heck with it. I believe they were happy with themselves. Well until I won the case. I'm like you though, you should work and not live off societies Teat. I don't like it one bit. I still have dreams. I still have a lot to contribute. Today I helped a former employer save thousands, potentially. I knew they were having problems and gave them some advice about sales tax. I estimate it will save them about 12,000. Not a lot but still it is cash.
I haven't been idle either, I've been studying for the CPA exam almost every day. I feel it's my best hope at landing any job. I've been studying 12 - 14 hours a day. I was up until 3:30 a.m. last night. I'm on a mission. Curval can add some support to this. He's a CPA and has offered advice on several occasions. He's having back surgery right now in London. Hope that goes well.
Hope that gives me just a wee bit of leeway. I'm not proud about being laid off and getting unemployment. When they laid me off I was very very upset. Then they call and want me to be a receptionist while they have ads posted for accountants. Shame on them!
But right now, I'm just making the best out of a bad situation, remodeled the living room, my guest bedroom, put in a new window, and of course hit the books nearly every day.
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What I noticed with job search <with friends/familly, I personaly was actually always super lucky> is that you can't always take the first job you find. The most obvious is off course your financial obligations. a 50% pay cut migth really ruin your house/car payment/familly's life. Second is it's much much harder to find a job after that as you don't have the free time to go to interviews. Kind of a catch 22.
My wife for example was a court reporter, about 5K/month, moved with me in an another city and needed to work right away. Couldn't find work after a week so she went as an account manager in a wharehouse for $11/hour from 08:00 to 16:30. Couldn't even interview for Court reporter as interviewers worked 9 to 16. She ended up being "traped" there for a year with her credit score skydiving. Only way she made it out was went I made enought to pay all our bills and her bills, so she could go find a "real job".
I think taking any job offer, is not always possible once you reach a certain skill level / life style. Heck if I loose my job as a pilot and go work flipping burgers, I can kiss goodbye my flying career. I should still be able to make my car payment/rent and should not impact my wife kid's life much, except my kid would get no insurance. But how the hell will I be able to afford a plane ticket to interview for a flying job, or the time for it, nor will I have an offer when I logged 0 hours in the last 10 months. :uhoh ... or like my friend who got furload from Frontier flying A320 : "We cannot hire you as a forklifter, you are a pilot, you are way over qualified". :confused:
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I don't totally disagree with you and I take no offense. Honestly I thought at the time I could find a more suitable job. Trust me, I will take the next job offer. For the record, I'm 55 and have worked as a pizza deliver boy in my 40s, delivered newspapers in my 30s, bailed hay when I was young along with shoveling cow manure. Also I've worked in factories and warehouses. Up until this year, I have only claimed about 2 weeks of unemployment. Said that wasn't for a young man like me and took a job carrying hodd.
The job offer was temporary for only 2 weeks. I actually said I would take it when they offered it as a Tax preparer. I got up got dressed and as I was about to walk out the door they called and canceled. Then they delayed again. Then they changed the job description. I honestly think it was a setup. Finally on the 3rd attempt to go to work I just said the heck with it. I believe they were happy with themselves. Well until I won the case. I'm like you though, you should work and not live off societies Teat. I don't like it one bit. I still have dreams. I still have a lot to contribute. Today I helped a former employer save thousands, potentially. I knew they were having problems and gave them some advice about sales tax. I estimate it will save them about 12,000. Not a lot but still it is cash.
I haven't been idle either, I've been studying for the CPA exam almost every day. I feel it's my best hope at landing any job. I've been studying 12 - 14 hours a day. I was up until 3:30 a.m. last night. I'm on a mission. Curval can add some support to this. He's a CPA and has offered advice on several occasions. He's having back surgery right now in London. Hope that goes well.
Hope that gives me just a wee bit of leeway. I'm not proud about being laid off and getting unemployment. When they laid me off I was very very upset. Then they call and want me to be a receptionist while they have ads posted for accountants. Shame on them!
But right now, I'm just making the best out of a bad situation, remodeled the living room, my guest bedroom, put in a new window, and of course hit the books nearly every day.
Firstly Getback - wtg. Hope things work out for you long term. You certainly don't come across as someone content to live off benefits indefinately.
Secondly, the benefits system - in California at least - encourages people to refuse work. The amount of unemployment you receive here is based on what you were earning prior to being laid off. If you take a 50% cut and then get laid off anyway, the benefits you receive will be lower. Also, companies that lay people off end up paying more in state employment insurance. That means higher tax bills for companies that are probably least able to afford it and encourages companies to use underhand tactics to try and get employees to quit rather than laying them off.
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My airline cut the salary of some pilots from $2,900/month to $1,800/month, forcing the guy to quit to maintian his living standard, so my airline doesn't pay unemployment. :rofl
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I don't totally disagree with you and I take no offense. Honestly I thought at the time I could find a more suitable job. Trust me, I will take the next job offer. For the record, I'm 55 and have worked as a pizza deliver boy in my 40s, delivered newspapers in my 30s, bailed hay when I was young along with shoveling cow manure. Also I've worked in factories and warehouses. Up until this year, I have only claimed about 2 weeks of unemployment. Said that wasn't for a young man like me and took a job carrying hodd.
The job offer was temporary for only 2 weeks. I actually said I would take it when they offered it as a Tax preparer. I got up got dressed and as I was about to walk out the door they called and canceled. Then they delayed again. Then they changed the job description. I honestly think it was a setup. Finally on the 3rd attempt to go to work I just said the heck with it. I believe they were happy with themselves. Well until I won the case. I'm like you though, you should work and not live off societies Teat. I don't like it one bit. I still have dreams. I still have a lot to contribute. Today I helped a former employer save thousands, potentially. I knew they were having problems and gave them some advice about sales tax. I estimate it will save them about 12,000. Not a lot but still it is cash.
I haven't been idle either, I've been studying for the CPA exam almost every day. I feel it's my best hope at landing any job. I've been studying 12 - 14 hours a day. I was up until 3:30 a.m. last night. I'm on a mission. Curval can add some support to this. He's a CPA and has offered advice on several occasions. He's having back surgery right now in London. Hope that goes well.
Hope that gives me just a wee bit of leeway. I'm not proud about being laid off and getting unemployment. When they laid me off I was very very upset. Then they call and want me to be a receptionist while they have ads posted for accountants. Shame on them!
But right now, I'm just making the best out of a bad situation, remodeled the living room, my guest bedroom, put in a new window, and of course hit the books nearly every day.
see...i figured it might've been something weird like that, and probably should've kept my mouth shut. i was tired, and it was a bit late, so i typed first.
if they were screwing with ya like that, then by all means there is 0 problem.
i think the most i had at once was delivering papers in the am, turn wrenches during the day, a couple nights a week, deliver pizzas, and one or 2 nights a week, drove a tow truck.
i think i almost collected unemployment once......but the shop whos fund it would've come out of offered me part time work, and i took it....which led to full time work.
i'm DEFINITELY glad you didn't take offense, as like i said, none was intended, and i almost feel like i need to apologize to you now.
:aok
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see...i figured it might've been something weird like that, and probably should've kept my mouth shut. i was tired, and it was a bit late, so i typed first.
if they were screwing with ya like that, then by all means there is 0 problem.
i think the most i had at once was delivering papers in the am, turn wrenches during the day, a couple nights a week, deliver pizzas, and one or 2 nights a week, drove a tow truck.
i think i almost collected unemployment once......but the shop whos fund it would've come out of offered me part time work, and i took it....which led to full time work.
i'm DEFINITELY glad you didn't take offense, as like i said, none was intended, and i almost feel like i need to apologize to you now.
:aok
Naa! absolutely no apology needed. I would have said the exact same thing as you a couple of years ago.
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My airline cut the salary of some pilots from $2,900/month to $1,800/month, forcing the guy to quit to maintian his living standard, so my airline doesn't pay unemployment. :rofl
My hours and therfore my wage was cut in half, I qualified for and recieve benefits.
I'm not sure if I would qualify if just my wage was cut in half. But I'm also not sure that would be legal for an employer to do that. I think they would need to lay the high wage worker off and then rehire at the lower rate.
I believe in my state (Oregon) it doesn't matter how many hours you work it depends on how much you made. If you are making less than you were per hour, then you qualify for benefits. You just have to look for and accept work in your field.
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wtg.... It is rare to win such appeals :salute
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wtg.... It is rare to win such appeals :salute
Everything I read said I wouldn't win. I even contacted an attorney and she said I wouldn't win. I prepared myself for the worst and yet sought every avenue to a win.
I finally opened the letter yesterday from the judge. I was nervous. Did the appeal differ from what I had been led to believe? Nope, full benefits and no penalty.
What told me I had won prior to reading the outcome from the appeal was I got a call on my land line saying a deposit has been made to my account from Workforce development. (I don't answer my land line, it's the beggers line usually). I thought wow, is that true. Then it rang again, again & again. So I deleted he messages and headed for the bank. When I returned, I had 11 more of the same messages and the tape was full, (old answering machine). I waited until around midnight to open the letter. Whew! it was true.
altogether, 23 checks were sent. If I had a job, I would remodel the kitchen. ( or succumb to the powers of the I7 :x)
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WTG.
Was involved in an appeal on the other side of the desk so to speak.
Former employee turned in his two week notice then filed for unemployment
claiming that I fired him and forged the email containing his two week notice.
Was interesting to see the look on his face when he arrived for the appeal and
found me sitting there.
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WTG.
Was involved in an appeal on the other side of the desk so to speak.
Former employee turned in his two week notice then filed for unemployment
claiming that I fired him and forged the email containing his two week notice.
Was interesting to see the look on his face when he arrived for the appeal and
found me sitting there.
I've heard many of those stories and read about many of them in my search.
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WTG.
Was involved in an appeal on the other side of the desk so to speak.
Former employee turned in his two week notice then filed for unemployment
claiming that I fired him and forged the email containing his two week notice.
Was interesting to see the look on his face when he arrived for the appeal and
found me sitting there.
a guy i used to work with at the last shop i was employed at, before gettnig my own, quit. he didn't give notice or anything. he just told the boss, me, the boss's daughter, the tow truck dispatcher.....all of us eff u........and left. came back a week later with a flatbed for his toolbox. then i hear from the boss that he filed for unemployment. boss appealed it and lost.
this particular person was/is a schmuck......well, he was so much more....i'm just keeping it clean to avoid the ban stick.
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WTG.
Was involved in an appeal on the other side of the desk so to speak.
Former employee turned in his two week notice then filed for unemployment
claiming that I fired him and forged the email containing his two week notice.
Was interesting to see the look on his face when he arrived for the appeal and
found me sitting there.
the funny thing is even if u fired him he had no ground to stand on....Laid off would be a different story... My brother got fired from his job..unemployment will use anything against a person to not pay them...
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the funny thing is even if u fired him he had no ground to stand on....Laid off would be a different story... My brother got fired from his job..unemployment will use anything against a person to not pay them...
Oh lordy that is true! My ex-wife, my good friend, and another good friend (and golfing buddy) worked for the same company over the years at different times. Each were called into the office and told they would be fired if they didn't quit. Each said they told them to fire them if they wanted. My good friend just gave the company everything he had in order to save his job but was fired anyway. None of them won their appeal. Not a one. 2 of the 3 ended up quiting. In both of those cases their supervisor lied and told them they quit without provocation. I mean how do you prove that. It's a tough sell.
Tell your brother to appeal, then study the law of the state. If possible find some court cases that support his cause. In the hearing be honest, clear & concise. Do not over explain or move from your script. I say this for serveral reasons. One, you will eventually put your foot in your mouth. I've noticed those who just state the facts usually win. Second, the judge is human and these days very busy. The judge may think very quickly that you are a windbag and boring. They've heard it all before. last reason, stay on message. If you talk to much you will drift away from your points. When I reflect on the case I came so close to hurting my cause on numerous occasions. I would advise practicing prior to the hearing.
Now most don't know how the system works. Don't point fingers, absolutely not. No matter how you feel about the company's representative be respectful. Try to get them to make your case if at all possible.
The judge will ask the questions. You just give the facts. You don't have to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt. It's something less. Stay positive! By that I don't mean rah rah positive but back bone positive. Being sheepish is not rewarded. Last piece of advice, contact your state representative. Let them know what happened and ask for advice, not favor! They seem to be very sensitive these days. At a minimum they will point you towards resources. I know my state rep. really got involved when they let my appeal sit on someone's desk for a month. He was outraged! So if there is some hitch, let them know. It cannot hurt.
All the best to your brother. For the record, I'm not an attorney.
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I am, and I think you did great!
Ever wonder if you've missed your calling? ;)
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i went through an issue like this many years ago. i started a new job working as a carpenter for a gal who took over the business after her husband died. i should have walked away after my first paycheck bounced. every paycheck after that was three to four days late and short of the agreed rate. no mistake on my part, she agreed to pay me that at the interview. so i quit, went to work for cash. she never gave me my last paycheck and i filed unemployment and lost wage claim out of spite. i got the unemployment but only though arbitration got 50% of my last check. but i still came out ahead. the state shut her down. she owed every lumberyard in town money and could not get credit at anyplace to do contracting work. the last i heard she was selling cellphones. i could go on and on about her antics but I'm not a fast typer.
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I am, and I think you did great!
Ever wonder if you've missed your calling? ;)
:lol :lol I was fortunate! That case could have gone either way and the odds in the beginning were not in my favor. Nope, don't feel I missed my calling. Although I am now 3 and 0 in court cases. :D Well if there is any such thing as a winner in a divorce. In my first divorce, after I pulled a clever ploy on the opposing attorney, my attorney pulled me aside and said YOU WON!! I sure didn't feel like a winner. Stupid me married the same woman 10 years later (I'm a maroon) and yep, whipped her again in the second divorce. Got my house, my pensions, and about everything else. My second attorney was so brilliant, enthusiastic, and forthright he overshadows most other attorneys. I have to tell you that's been about 9 years ago and I still think well of that guy. He called me his favorite client. :o
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Great news! I'd check into law school.