Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: antivortex on July 02, 2009, 01:49:07 PM
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The AvA server will be used for something else in the very near future...
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Sorry to say but I agree :(
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Yup, I suspected that after the last forum related to what peps wanted to see. Maybe within two weeks eh.
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:huh What I miss?
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They said if that Billy Mays loving squeaker Stodd doesn't stop ruining the arena that they'll shut er down!
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They said if that Billy Mays loving squeaker Stodd doesn't stop ruining the arena that they'll shut er down!
Seriously, is there some new information here?
- oldman
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I think what storch, err N7, err jaeger, I mean antivortex is talking about how no one like the AvA because they aren't good enough to fly pre 45 planes then they cry on the BBS about it.
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Seriously, is there some new information here?
- oldman
The arena is so bad Oldman doesn't even show up there anymore. :uhoh
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I think HTC likes the AvA exactly the way it is.
Otherwise, folks would start thinking they would like an historical arena and they wouldn't have this cautionary example to point to.
And that is probably a wise business decision.
Its not going anywhere.
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well...the AVA is only going to be what we make of it. It has always been an arena run by the players, for the players.
It is a gift.
If we trash it, it will disappear.
If we nurture it, it will continue.
In other words, if we treat it and fly in it like it is another MA then we don't need it and don't deserve it. We already have 3 other MA's to fly in.
Park the MA expectations at the door when you enter, and you may find yourself inadvertently having some fun.
Bringing negative comments and percieved perceptions to this branch of the BBS is the quickest way to kill this whole aspect of Aces High.
Personal and squad conflicts are not unique to the AVA. You have the same thing happening ad-nauseum in all the other arenas. What is different is the smaller numbers in the AVA, and that gives the impression that you ("you" as in generic you) are being singled out and picked on.
I recommend everybody put the sabres away and strap on a fully bb'd AVA fixed wing equalizer, and sort it out in the air.
Also, if you have occasion to visit the sheep pens, please have the courtesy to leave the sheep in the condition you found them in. It takes us Staff countless hours to clean them up some nights. (Jaeger, you left your boots in the pen....again.)
cheers,
RTR
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RTR - I thought you weren't going to bring that sheep incident to the boards :lol
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My God man!
Think of the poor sheep!
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My God man!
Think of the poor sheep!
You're right...we must raise sheep-rights awareness. I think Larry and Jeager should make public appearences as part of their punishment for sheep-assault
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The arena is so bad Oldman doesn't even show up there anymore. :uhoh
au contraire.
Oldman's sons are both home for a bit, so Oldman has been spending his time with them. PLUS, as N7 should know, Oldman is working toward his instrument rating, which takes its own toll on the small amount of discretionary time available. So I'm expecting you folks to keep things running smoothly for a few weeks more. Pay some attention to RTR's post.
When the kids leave I'll be happy to go around killing things.
...that is, if I can ever figure out how to do that...
- oldman
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au contraire.
Oldman is working toward his instrument rating
Good for you! Take you're time and ace the sucker :aok
Then get one of these:
(http://photos.flightaware.com/dropbox/retriever.rcl?id=d99d10c120a4ea8ac2edc7aa1a694abf456ac89b)
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You're right...we must raise sheep-rights awareness. I think Larry and Jeager should make public appearences as part of their punishment for sheep-assault
you cant prove a thing!!! they're all smiling!!
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:rofl :rofl
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I think HTC likes the AvA exactly the way it is.
Otherwise, folks would start thinking they would like an historical arena and they wouldn't have this cautionary example to point to.
And that is probably a wise business decision.
Its not going anywhere.
:x
Sounds like you're describing a Fed Gov run operation there Dawger.
:noid
au contraire.
Oldman's sons are both home for a bit, so Oldman has been spending his time with them. PLUS, as N7 should know, Oldman is working toward his instrument rating...
Dude, instruments, as we all know, are a fad and not to be taken seriously. Give me a scarf, and a windsock and I'll bring her home every time. :rofl
And grats on the kids being home. Just when you thought it was safe to walk around the house in your undies... Kids Too!
:rofl :rofl
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Make AvA a GV arena.
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Make AvA a GV arena.
\
Fail
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Make AvA a GV arena.
Maybe one day, they'll add F86 Sabers and Migs, then we can have Korea Arena.
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See Rule #14
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So why are you here?
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eh, Dawgers okay.
He's kinda like Eeyor (from winnie the pooh). It's always rainng, but he'll have fun anyway ;)
RTR
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So why are you here?
Here as in the universe? or Here as in on the AvA board?
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I would suspect that, much like Cervantes' Don Quixote, I tilt at windmills believing they are giants with arms two leagues long.
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Well Tilt away Don Quixote, just do it with a few closely packed pixels in the AVA instead of a few choice picks from the alphabet on the BBS.
I hear it's not even raining in the AVA at the moment!
cheers,
RTR
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I would suspect that, much like Cervantes' Don Quixote, I tilt at windmills believing they are giants with arms two leagues long.
Go ahead, Dawger, I see it's been keeping you up at night. What do you think we should change in AvA to make it better?
- oldman
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Go ahead, Dawger, I see it's been keeping you up at night. What do you think we should change in AvA to make it better?
- oldman
OM I can already tell you what hes going to say.
"Get rid of the silly rules and JG54"
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which JG54?? there are 2 of us now!
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I've already posted what I would do but I will summarize........
The first thing is a schedule posted a minimum of 6 months in advance based upon large historical events or periods, with the same plane setup running for a minimum of 1 week, 2 weeks preferably.
Minimum use of obscure planesets, more "planes of fame" with a natural progression from early war to late war.
Settings designed to provide basically the same info the real world guys got. No enemy icons, very short friendly icons ( I have specific numbers if you are REALLY interested).
European theater had good command and control and that can be simulated through radar. Pacific/CBI/Africa was much less extensive so settings would reflect that.
A weekly event highlighting the current setup or a variation on it.
Terrain setup to avoid the opposing fields 5 miles apart constant deck furball.
Generally, something that marks the AvA as radically different.
I have a lot more but I'm not typing it all out this morning. Too tired ATM.
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No enemy icons, very short friendly icons ( I have specific numbers if you are REALLY interested).
I can guarantee that will make the AvA less popular. As will making bases further apart.
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I can guarantee that will make the AvA less popular. As will making bases further apart.
Less popular with the people who currently fly in AvA? I would agree 100% with that.
But there is a subset of players that would like to see something radically different. How big is that group? I dunno but it is bound to be bigger than the current population.
No icons is a different animal altogether. The fights are truly different. And it requires in flight radar in an arena with a small population. It opens up a world of possibility that isn't available with the icons on.
The AvA concept requires players to give up choice available in the MA. If you ask them to give something up without providing a radically different experience you can't expect a big draw.
Some folks would hate no icons. Other would love it. It will never rival the MA for population. At best you might expect to draw 5% of the total AH population to a no icon setup but that is still a large number of people.
It ain't gonna happen so don't get too worried. Little stirs up players more than the icon debate and it has been settled for years. Icons are here to stay. I'm fairly certain that the holodeck version of Aces High in the year 2436 will have icons.
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Less popular with the people who currently fly in AvA? I would agree 100% with that.
But there is a subset of players that would like to see something radically different. How big is that group? I dunno but it is bound to be bigger than the current population.
No icons is a different animal altogether. The fights are truly different.
Yes because when no icons the fights never happen. I remember a few years ago the AvA staff ran a setup with very very short icons 1-2k IIRC. and radar blips that update slow 15-30 again IIRC and there was almost no fights because it took you way to long to find one. The way you describe things I think the SEA is the place you want to be not the AvA. Senarios and FSOs would fit you nicely.
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But there is a subset of players that would like to see something radically different. How big is that group? I dunno but it is bound to be bigger than the current population.
This is key, I think.
Dawger, you weren't here when this happened. The desire to have an arena with historical plane sets and more realistic settings was the cause of the birth of the AvA's predecessor, which at the time was called the Combat Theater. It was player-run, by the grace, but not necessarily with the blessing, of HTC. The dedicated WWII air history afficionados all came here, and the world was good. Probably something like this was going on in Warbirds more or less simultaneously. Many might consider it the height of WWII flight simulation.
Sadly, those people either are gone or became bored with that aspect of the game. I watched them leave here, and you probably watched them leave Warbirds. Age, marriage, other real world interests, who knows? One way or the other, they were replaced by Competitors, who care much less for the history and aren't willing to sacrifice plane choice or squad affiliation to achieve it.
So: I challenge your assertion that there is a core group of realistic WWII simulators who are out there just waiting for the perfect AvA situation to arise. I think they're all gone.
On the other hand: Your idea of longer plane sets, and historic progression, is a good one. It has been tried already, though, with theBug giving us a hard-working performance of keeping it all going. It really didn't change the numbers significantly, I think all will agree (and, most sadly, we lost theBug because of that).
- oldman
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I think they're all gone.
- oldman
Wrong
Wolfie 2008-present
Skyfoxx 2002-2007
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I don't think they are gone. Some are gone, that cannot be denied. Some are still around. New ones are all over the place but they don't see anyplace to indulge in the fun of pretending to be in WWII for a few hours.
A side note is necessary at this point. What about events? Events COULD be historical re-creation but far too often are too closely scored and time controlled to get the real feel. And events are clumsy things when they insist on lots of rules. Ironically the best events are in the AvA and that is when the AvA is at its best.
Those who have worked for a place to re-create history are tired and I count myself among that group.
It is a great effort to constantly battle for a game.
You admit yourself that hardworking, well intentioned folks are beat down by the constant struggle to keep an historical setup a pleasant place to be. I have written proof from folks that used to fight the good fight but aren't willing to do it anymore. I'm barely willing. You should see me when I am REALLY determined.
In my own experience during what you refer to as the "peak" we had the same struggle against much the same personalities.
The concept of axis versus allies attracts a broad spectrum of personalities. Some are interested in the historical aspect, the re-creation of history, the immersion in the idea of pretending to be a WWII participant. For those folks it is a living movie, a grand entertainment.
And there are those that sense opportunity to be a Big Fish in a small Pond. It is much easier to shine among a half dozen versus five hundred.
And those who relish the comfort of knowing the other guy can never be in the same plane (and therefore defeat can always be rationalized for reasons outside the control of oneself)
There are a half dozen more variations on the same sad themes. And they generally are loud voices protected by the anonymity of the internet.
It is very tiring and quite destructive. It killed the game I first devoted many years to. The developers made the critical mistake of believing that axis versus allies with Main Arena type settings was something the mass of players wanted. It was the worst of both worlds. The squadron i was in went from 150 members to 10 in 18 months.
HTC has it right. The vast majority want as much choice as possible. One of those choices should be an historical re-creation arena at least sometimes.
Folks eventually stop in and check it out. It will never be the permanent home of large numbers of players. In fact, it should be the permanent home of NO player. That is what kills it.
It ends up being a warm sewer grate attracting the bums.
I would venture to say that a very significant percentage of ALL AH players try the AvA at some point.
What do they encounter? No particular need to rehash what it glaringly obvious.
There are only a few ways around the inherent problems.
The obvious one is the one that doesn't work, trying to "police" the arena and kick the bums off the sewer grate. The only real solution is to freeze them to death.
And that means the AvA has to become exceedingly rare until it builds a following of folks interested in historical re-creation.
Take the schedule concept a bit further and build LOTS of down time into the schedule.
Schedule 2 weeks of AvA uptime each quarter and promote it as a long event. Run 4 two week events a year and lock the arena the rest of the time. That will drain the swamp, chase off the alligators and bring in the folks who are interested in the historical re-creation aspects.
Making a commodity rare increases its perceived value. Diamonds and coal are the same stuff. We can make all the diamonds we want in a lab and they cost pennies and are perfect. Imperfect natural diamonds are perceived to have much greater value simply because they are rare (at least thats what the marketing says)
The novelty alone would draw folks in and once people are in, other people join them. And if it turns out that 8 weeks a year is all people will support?
That's fine and dandy because right now we have zero
And if you are right, there are no folks interested in historical re-creation, why keep the AvA open at all?.
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Yes because when no icons the fights never happen. I remember a few years ago the AvA staff ran a setup with very very short icons 1-2k IIRC. and radar blips that update slow 15-30 again IIRC and there was almost no fights because it took you way to long to find one. The way you describe things I think the SEA is the place you want to be not the AvA. Senarios and FSOs would fit you nicely.
Yet I can recall huge furballs with no icons whatsoever in the distant past.
I wonder how they managed that?
My squadron flew FSO for about a year until we decided it was really too darn late for us on a Friday night. For me it was too arcade like to be a serious contender for historical re-creation and the time format is much too short as well. Not that FSO isn't a great event because it is very good.
Scenario's are more along the lines of historical re-creation but, again, the short time period of each frame and the somewhat oppressive structure don't make them attractive for me. I certainly cannot guarantee where I will be for a succession of Saturday Afternoon's 6 months from now. And I want to fly with my squad mates, not with a bunch of guys I never met following a guy who is lead because he is pals with the event organizer.
I'm more into
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Yet I can recall huge furballs with no icons whatsoever in the distant past.
I wonder how they managed that?
And where did this happen?
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Wrong
Wolfie 2008-present
Skyfoxx 2002-2007
Oldman is talking about the regulars who flew the old CT exclusively and yes they are all gone with a couple of exceptions.
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Oldman is talking about the regulars who flew the old CT exclusively and yes they are all gone with a couple of exceptions.
Bear you're still here, I'm still here, Wolfie aka Skyfoxx is still here... Slash, TheBug, Warloc, and quite a few others still here. Not in the AVA but still here. :aok
I diasagree with OMs opinion that there is not a group of dedicated WWII air history afficionados. FSO, SECs, and Scenarios are becoming more popular all the time.
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FSO's are one of the best things about this game. I just wish my schedule would let me be a regular participent.
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I can say that Axis & Allies has great potential. I came on one time and flew against a (talented) squad on the Okinawa scenario (which btw, I would love to see again). That map was a great time.
From time to time I try to peek in and see what is going on and it (in appearance) seems to be like other arenas with the exception of plane selections. I like the set up but ponder if there is a way to advertise to bring squads in.
I would consider playing in this arena more often with a set day and time of the week.
I would be more than happy to help get the word out on Axis & Allies and recruit people to come in and play at a squad level. Is something in the plans to potentially do a date & timed event within?
For what it is worth, I have nothing personal against anyone in the game and would love to fly in Axis & Allies more often if those out there are willing to teach me the set up for better understanding. I will do my best to bring more in here if this is what you all are looking for.
:salute :rock
SlipKnt
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hey Slip,
Okinawa always attracts numbers. I'm happpy you enjoyed yourself. There are other fun setups though. Just make sure to keep checking in bud.
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TY - I will definately do so and will for sure fly there more often. Just got rudder pedals today and am already seeing improvement.
See ya in the skies!!!
:salute
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Here's what I'd like to see. The game coded somehow where you could have a true two sided map. Or at least have the ability to keep the map from getting griefed into needing constant upkeep. Then every week rotate a new setup along the lines of the FSO setups. Run at least one PTO for every two ETOs or MTOs.
ETO/Eastern Front Setups (http://ahevents.org/european-theatre/index.php)
MTO Setups (http://ahevents.org/mediterranean-theatre/index.php)
PTO Setups (http://ahevents.org/pacific-theatre/2.html)
I'd like to see HTC take over the running of the AVA or appoint a couple of moderators or CMs but get rid of the AVA Staff system as it is now.
It's not working, nothing personal but how many years has this been going on? The whole place needs a facelift and a new direction.
The maps rotate automatically according to a set schedule and nobody has the privelige of deciding who gets to fly what every week it's set in stone.
No opinions, no debate, no fine tuning, you get the matchup as it is. I'd also like to see the AVA Forums removed and the AVA be looked upon as another arena for everyone in the AH community to enjoy. Not the private playpen for 10 or so people to lord over but a viable arena with a chance to attract new people to WWII aviation history and a chance to promote historical matchups in an honest attempt to have a healthy arena for those historical matchups. Those of you that think you are going to improve the place by doing the same thing over and over that you've been doing for years are mistaken. It's a shame the one arena where you could have historical aircraft matchups daily is empty and allowed to keep rotting away.
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Here's the thing.....if HTC takes it over, it goes away. Simple as that.
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Here's the thing.....if HTC takes it over, it goes away. Simple as that.
I would say it's a matter of time before it goes away at this point. Everything to do with this place gets overshadowed by the weekly bs drama and keeps the wounds open.
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okay...stop this here.
check the you know what.
RTR
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I would say it's a matter of time before it goes away at this point. Everything to do with this place gets overshadowed by the weekly bs drama and keeps the wounds open.
I wish skuzzy would put one of those special rules like in the squad forums. "If you don't have anything nice to say twittle off." :)
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Don't worry I made a thread just for those bsers because all other threads for ava get trashed
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Don't worry I made a thread just for those bsers because all other threads for ava get trashed
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Don't worry I made a thread just for those bsers because all other threads for ava get trashed
And a nice, well thought out thread it was. I like how it was representative of the AvA. Seems to be locked however.....
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I wish skuzzy would put one of those special rules like in the squad forums. "If you don't have anything nice to say twittle off." :)
I AGREE!!!! :aok