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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: zack1234 on July 03, 2009, 05:37:02 AM

Title: baling from bombers
Post by: zack1234 on July 03, 2009, 05:37:02 AM
would it not be a good idea if someone bales from bombers after bombing a base the nearest pilot in that sector should automatically get the kills and the bomber should have 1000 perks taken off him. :mad:

This technique of game play is boring and stupid, in my opinion it equal to a cheat - bomb a base bale and come back in c47 to take base lots of skill in that. :mad:

why chase a set of bombers for 10 mins when they bale when they see you coming into range!

yes its a game with cartoon planes but please if your going to bomb a base let me try and shoot you down :D
Title: Re: baling from bombers
Post by: thndregg on July 03, 2009, 05:45:40 AM
I've seen it many times. You go after a set of buffs in your trusty fighter only to have them bail (out of impatience), and chicken out of a good fight with the possibility of the buff pilot winning and carrying home a kill.

The "immediate gratification" crowd is annoying, but nevertheless they exsist.
Title: Re: baling from bombers
Post by: LYNX on July 03, 2009, 05:49:51 AM
Its times like these that you wished the bomber pilots family dog had a nasty disease.  So when there mum is rude with the dog she gets the disease and the bomber catches it shortly afterwards.
Title: Re: baling from bombers
Post by: lyric1 on July 03, 2009, 07:22:23 AM
Its times like these that you wished the bomber pilots family dog had a nasty disease.  So when there mum is rude with the dog she gets the disease and the bomber catches it shortly afterwards.
As the fellow above me once said on 200 oh look chaps Berlin below us OK every one get ready to bail.
Title: Re: baling from bombers
Post by: toonces3 on July 03, 2009, 07:47:07 AM
That made me laugh lyric.  Good one!   :rofl
Title: Re: baling from bombers
Post by: Rich46yo on July 03, 2009, 07:57:08 AM
Every now and then life calls, "even tho odds of it calling right after you drop is are pretty small". For the most part however this is among the dweebiest aspects of the game. We have some that tower out in a GV as soon as they see the enemy too, even if its still a proxie kill.

I remember one big GV mission we ran where one dweeb bomb and bailed from Lancs numerous times, ruining the mission. He didnt even bother landing his Lanc-stuka kills. :mad:
Title: Re: baling from bombers
Post by: AKP on July 03, 2009, 08:07:18 AM
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l273/woosle_2006/Yosemite-Sam-1.jpg)

Oooooooooooooh!!!!  Dis jus BURNS mah bacon!!!!  Take all dem lop-eared bomber-bailin varmints and fill em full o' hot smokin lead!!!!  DAAAAAAAG NABIT!!!!

Seriously... its really does just steam me to no end when I see it happen.  Not sure how you will ever change it though.
Title: Re: baling from bombers
Post by: redwing7 on July 03, 2009, 10:25:41 AM
I hate these type of dweebs with a passion. :furious :furious :furious This was happening alot at a base we were trying to defend last night, set of buffs come in and as soon as they released the person would bail. Just pathetic, if you are that person this is me giving you a special one finger salute!!! to all others :salute
Title: Re: baling from bombers
Post by: TonyJoey on July 03, 2009, 11:23:43 AM
As the fellow above me once said on 200 oh look chaps Berlin below us OK every one get ready to bail.

 :rofl
Title: Re: baling from bombers
Post by: Ratpack1 on July 03, 2009, 11:59:12 AM
Obviously sometimes you have no choice, but if there is a lot of cons around then its a bit of a cop out. I don't like flying all the way home either. If its just one guy trying to chase you down and you have to wait for him to climb or whatever, then too bad so sad for him. I'm going on to the next fight. My time is valuable he should have upped earlier. :lol More often than not when I am done doing a level bomb i take my planes right down in the mix and start hitting red stuff!
Title: Re: baling from bombers
Post by: pervert on July 03, 2009, 12:06:35 PM
lol @ bomber bails no easy points for your score card = wahh wahh  :cry  :rofl
Title: Re: baling from bombers
Post by: Ciaphas on July 03, 2009, 12:24:17 PM
last night it was quite the opposite for me. On two separate occasions I had an aircraft get on my six he would fire on my 17's he would get a fuel cell and I would send a wall of .50 at him. he would stick around long enough and dodge just right to get a drone and then he would run from the fight and land two kills. I find  fighter types like this just as frustrating as the buff drivers who ding dong ditch.

It's a two way street. don't start something you can't finish.    :aok


If I have a lone guy chasing me I will throttle back so he can catch up. Most fighters aren't expecting a buff to slow so they can catch up.  Some of us love a dirty fight in a set of buffs, especially after a long flight to the target(s)
Title: Re: baling from bombers
Post by: grizz441 on July 03, 2009, 12:26:03 PM
I don't see it as a problem.  Those that do it can't possibly be getting any personal satisfaction and will probably get bored quickly and move on to something else.
Title: Re: baling from bombers
Post by: Lye-El on July 03, 2009, 01:13:59 PM
last night it was quite the opposite for me. On two separate occasions I had an aircraft get on my six he would fire on my 17's he would get a fuel cell and I would send a wall of .50 at him. he would stick around long enough and dodge just right to get a drone and then he would run from the fight and land two kills. I find  fighter types like this just as frustrating as the buff drivers who ding dong ditch.

It's a two way street. don't start something you can't finish.    :aok




One fighter doesn't carry the ammo of 3 b-17's. Perhaps if formations for fighters were enabled for attacking bomber formations he could finish what he started..........
Title: Re: baling from bombers
Post by: Ciaphas on July 03, 2009, 02:27:27 PM
I can understand that if he was coming in blazing with his guns. That was not the case though. It was a quick in a small burst and then he became a shadow.  :aok
Title: Re: baling from bombers
Post by: AWwrgwy on July 03, 2009, 02:32:33 PM
last night it was quite the opposite for me. On two separate occasions I had an aircraft get on my six he would fire on my 17's he would get a fuel cell and I would send a wall of .50 at him. he would stick around long enough and dodge just right to get a drone and then he would run from the fight and land two kills. I find  fighter types like this just as frustrating as the buff drivers who ding dong ditch.

It's a two way street. don't start something you can't finish.    :aok


If I have a lone guy chasing me I will throttle back so he can catch up. Most fighters aren't expecting a buff to slow so they can catch up.  Some of us love a dirty fight in a set of buffs, especially after a long flight to the target(s)


If I can get some clarification please?  He fired until you started burning then waited for you to die?  X 2?  If so, why waste ammo on a plane that is just as good as dead?

Personally, I can't hit squat as a bomber gunner and usually do not have the patience to get into proper position to attack from a fighter.

As for the OP, they should increase the proxy distance to icon range.  If I can actually get close enough I will try to throw some rounds into all three bombers "just in case".

What I've seen lately is a tail chase on high buffs.  Takes five minutes to climb to them when you can finally find them.  Then another five to ten minutes trying to catch up as they continue to climb up past 25k. Finally, just as the icon pops up, or better just as you get into firing range, they bail.

HTC did offer up the suggestion a few years ago that bomb damage wouldn't "count" if the bomber didn't survive for a certain amount of time after dropping as a deterrent to low level bomb and bailing.  It was seriously shot down by the community.


wrongway
Title: Re: baling from bombers
Post by: Larry on July 03, 2009, 02:43:42 PM
IMO if does that whatever they damaged on the ground that sortie should automatically pop back up once that person bails.
Title: Re: baling from bombers
Post by: Beefcake on July 03, 2009, 02:50:31 PM
Bailing Buff Pilots do annoy me as they give honest buff pilots (well if there is such a thing in a game) a bad rep. However, again it's their money and if they want to be a butthole and deny a person some combat then thats their thing. I will say this though, there are alot of fighter pilots that will also bomb and bail, so don't just lump this in as a buff thing. Many times I've seen a P51 or a tiffie fly in, drop the ord and radar at a base, and then bail. Same thing with CV's, fly in, bomb and bail.

I agree that bombing and bailing is a lame tactic, however, do unto fighters as you would do unto bombers as there are alot of people on both sides of the fence that do this.
Title: Re: baling from bombers
Post by: Ciaphas on July 03, 2009, 02:53:58 PM
You can short burst the 17's with 20mm and get a fuel leak or an engine.

Quote
He fired until you started burning then waited for you to die?

pretty much. I even asked the guy why he was running. I never got a response from him.

I usually slow down if I see a someone climbing to me or if they are chasing me. I know that it can be a pain in the butt to chase buffs down and I don't like to run from fights and the prospect that the person chasing me might nail me while I'm trying to land is never appealing.

Quote
HTC did offer up the suggestion a few years ago that bomb damage wouldn't "count" if the bomber didn't survive for a certain amount of time after dropping as a deterrent to low level bomb and bailing.  It was seriously shot down by the community.

I think this is rule is needed, any player that bails without being shot down should suffer a few penalties.
Title: Re: baling from bombers
Post by: qcarech on July 03, 2009, 03:09:25 PM
im a straight up buff pilot, when i go on a run, after i drop, if no1 is around (enemy) i will punch out when bingo. but if i see just a dot outta icon range ill wait an see if its a red guys an wait for him. i dont think u should punch out if some 1 is climbin up to u , thats lame. but as a buff pilot an head of the chawks bomber wing, i cant an will not try an rtb every sortie. if i did, id only get a cpl in a nite, as buffs take forever to climbout an get to trgt an rtb. thats 1 thing fghtr guys dont get, us buff guys have alot slower an more borin of a flight. But never ever as a buffer, bail if a red guy is tryin to get to u. thats just not cool. no matter how many bad guys, always fight it out (imo) but if skies r clear an u dont wanna fly allthe way back, who cares.
when ur alone it becomes about points an such an i really dont care about points, i care about gettin my ords to trgt. and again this is all in my opinion. but i agree, dont bail to avoid a fight. its not cool.
<<S>> QcareCh
Title: Re: baling from bombers
Post by: zack1234 on July 03, 2009, 03:26:20 PM
In regards to shooting down two bombers and then retiring i thought it was good manner's, it lets you land any kills and get you your perks :D

I am having fun at present taking bombers out with rockets on one pass, i am collecting recordings to watch when i am drunk  :x , so if you see a P51 with Canadian markings please let me shoot you down :D

By the way the new Beta water does not look like UK water anymore :cry

hurrah! and tally ho!
Title: Re: baling from bombers
Post by: Cajunn on July 03, 2009, 03:34:04 PM
Well this is not just a buff problem, I have seen them do it in fighters too, as soon as they kill there energy and lose the advantage they bail. Now I was accused of towering in a wirb the other day and I guess that would be the same, now I did it to deny him the kill and because I was on concrete and just out of the hanger. Now I have seen guys fly take out the ords and bail and get in there GV's, and they do it because there trying to have a GV battle and us "bomb Tards" are raining on there fun :devil
Title: Re: baling from bombers
Post by: Patches1 on July 03, 2009, 03:51:17 PM
I've made Buff Hunting pretty much my forte over the past few years. I've taken the time to climb up to 20-30K altitudes to engage Buffs up that high in my Corsair. I've enjoyed the challenge that so many AH players have given me whilst they fly their Buffs against my Corsair. I've won, and lost...and have always had great fun...and because of this experience, I have no respect for any Buff pilot who hasn't the courage, or patience, to fly home from the mission he, or she, started.

I also fly Buffs from time to time...and will take as much time to fly home safely from the mission as I did in trying to hit my target. My gunnery in a Buff leaves much to be desired...however,  I cannot improve that skill unless I fight the fighters who pursue me along the way.

Just my thoughts....











Title: Re: baling from bombers
Post by: smokey23 on July 03, 2009, 03:55:40 PM
Posted by: Ciaphas

I think this is rule is needed, any player that bails without being shot down should suffer a few penalties


I agree either a perk penalty /rank penalty and any damage caused by the drop is instantly reversed.
Title: Re: baling from bombers
Post by: crazyivan on July 03, 2009, 04:29:06 PM
disable  bail option. :aok
Title: Re: baling from bombers
Post by: Blooz on July 03, 2009, 04:51:52 PM
Bail all you want!

It gets the job done as far as I'm concerned.

Saves me bullets and fuel.

You are no longer a threat to my team.

You rack up as many as three deaths in your statistics.

My team may get some kills and/or assists when you bail.

You lose 75% of the points you just flew so long to acquire.

Bail away!
Title: Re: baling from bombers
Post by: Lye-El on July 03, 2009, 05:27:16 PM


You are no longer a threat to my team.



They are not longer a threat once they have dropped bombs. They become a threat 15 seconds later when up a new formation. Unfortunately, if they could not bail they would auger. The only option I see is to make the damage done as if it as if it never happened. Wouldn't help the guys on the ground who get bombed but hangers and dar could come back up.
Title: Re: baling from bombers
Post by: stran on July 03, 2009, 05:45:13 PM
as some have said... Enjoy it, its your 15 bucks!

i don't see how some people get so riled up because they didn't intercept a bomber that has already dropped it's ord. maybe on his next sortie you grab alt before he's flying past your airfield.
Title: Re: baling from bombers
Post by: 4deck on July 03, 2009, 05:53:28 PM
Bomb and Bail = BB, close enough to BS for me, people who do it suck.  :rock  <--- minus one finger
Title: Re: baling from bombers
Post by: Dream Child on July 03, 2009, 08:23:17 PM
Why can't we just award a kill, or kills, to the closest enemy, if in icon range, if a buff driver bails? I think that would solve all the issues here.
Title: Re: baling from bombers
Post by: Ciaphas on July 03, 2009, 08:42:10 PM
Quote
Why can't we just award a kill, or kills, to the closest enemy, if in icon range, if a buff driver bails? I think that would solve all the issues here.

To what Purpose?
Title: Re: baling from bombers
Post by: AWwrgwy on July 03, 2009, 10:59:43 PM
To what Purpose?

Isn't the whole point of a bomber bailing as someone climbs to engage to deny said climbing pilot the possibility of a kill?

Award the kills anyway and perhaps the bomber would fight it out.

I also don't understand your original complaint that the fighter wouldn't engage any more after he has you burning.  You're already dead.  What would be the point?

wrongway
Title: Re: baling from bombers
Post by: Ciaphas on July 04, 2009, 12:34:18 AM
He had one of my bombers burning not all three.  He disengaged  me on two separate sorties in the same manner.

Quote
Award the kills anyway and perhaps the bomber would fight it out.

I've received proxies from buff drivers when they have bailed. I think adding different penalties for the person who bailed. Something like ord limitations for their next sortie or remove the formation option for the next sortie. Something like that would be a huge deterrent. Also the same can be for fighter jocks. If they perform a ding dong ditch limit ord availability, fuel load out or something like that.  Cripple the next sortie after the ditch. You would have to take in to account the aircraft's damage status at the time of the ditch though.
Title: Re: baling from bombers
Post by: Jackraid on July 04, 2009, 01:36:56 AM
lol @ bomber bails no easy points for your score card = wahh wahh  :cry  :rofl

Your probably the same guy who says it's just easier to HO vs trying to turn fight also.
Title: Re: baling from bombers
Post by: grizz441 on July 04, 2009, 01:59:43 AM
Isn't the whole point of a bomber bailing as someone climbs to engage to deny said climbing pilot the possibility of a kill?

Award the kills anyway and perhaps the bomber would fight it out.

I also don't understand your original complaint that the fighter wouldn't engage any more after he has you burning.  You're already dead.  What would be the point?

wrongway

Aren't the kills awarded as proxies as is?   :huh
Title: Re: baling from bombers
Post by: StokesAk on July 04, 2009, 02:15:17 AM
Why wouldnt you just ping all of them before attacking them fully?
Title: Re: baling from bombers
Post by: Nilsen on July 04, 2009, 02:37:15 AM
I can understand that if he was coming in blazing with his guns. That was not the case though. It was a quick in a small burst and then he became a shadow.  :aok

I do that until i get some critical damage or run out of ammo. Not the same as bailing from healty bombers at all.
Title: Re: baling from bombers
Post by: stran on July 04, 2009, 02:42:49 AM
Why can't we just award a kill, or kills, to the closest enemy, if in icon range, if a buff driver bails? I think that would solve all the issues here.
100% true. because all the OP wants is the kill. this thread is like a child throwing a tantrum because he didn't get what he wanted.
Title: Re: baling from bombers
Post by: LYNX on July 04, 2009, 08:33:06 AM
100% true. because all the OP wants is the kill. this thread is like a child throwing a tantrum because he didn't get what he wanted.

I have to disagree.

This thread and others like it miss the point altogether.  We all know the situation but a proper name to the situation has never, in any thread I've read, been tagged to the situation.

Guy comes in usually to low for level bombers.  Why?..expediency.  Can't be arsed to climb to a reasonable / adequate altitude.   Makes desperate last second maneuvers for a line.  Drops his ords then promptly bails.  Only to up at 1 click of the mouse from whence he started.......rinse and repeat for expediency.  Nothing in my opinion to do with "limited" time to play.  These guys make 2 and 3 sorties to get the job done when spending less time on one higher altitude sortie would ALSO get the job done....accurately at that.

In games notably sport we have terms like unsportsman behaviour or foul play or deliberate foul or professional foul.

Bombing and bailing is nothing less than a DELIBERATE FOUL in the way of this game.  As in most sports there are incidences which bring consequences.  Red cards, sent off, sin bins, penalty kicks, free kicks, time penalties and so on. These consequences are awarded because a player has impeded another player from performing the goal of said game/sport.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_foul

You can try and argue that the OP is whining because he was DENIED.  Yes he was denied but not through skill of play but by a DELIBERATE FOUL.   

As for penalties for this kind of foul in AH there will be nothing done about it.  Should there be I would like to see the bailer denied the use of the field he tuck off from for 20 min.

Oh! if only I had a majority share on the board of AH rule making  :rofl
Title: Re: baling from bombers
Post by: RTHolmes on July 04, 2009, 09:18:18 AM
I have a solution which would go along way to helping, and I'm pretty sure would improve the gameplay in other areas too. I'm also pretty sure that 95% of players would instantly reject it so havent bothered to wishlist it.

when a player (and yes I do mean fighters and GVs too) is killed, bails or ditches, there is a delay until they can up again. the length of the delay is the time it would take them to get to the nearest friendly base (or spawn for GVs). speed could be based on the aircraft, or perhaps just fixed. takes away the time incentive for BnBing. I would also extend the proxy range to whatever vis range is set for that arena, removes the kill-denying incentive.

other benefits?
you fly a sector and engage 2 cons near their base, kill con #1 and have an extended fight with the other. in the 90s you have been fighting con #2, con #1 has reupped and picks you. doesnt seem right that a dead guy can come back so quickly and reenter what is effectively the same fight, even Jesus had to wait 3 days.

would also stop the endless stream of planes upping and promote more distinct fights and more winging/squad squad based action rather than airquake furballs.


now where did I leave that asbestos coat ... :uhoh
Title: Re: baling from bombers
Post by: Ciaphas on July 04, 2009, 11:09:55 AM
Holmes, I agree with that.  :aok
Title: Re: baling from bombers
Post by: pervert on July 04, 2009, 01:36:48 PM
Your probably the same guy who says it's just easier to HO vs trying to turn fight also.

your so righteous!  :x and I bet your probably the same guy who doesn't live up to his deluded condescending bbs moral high ground in game  :D

       :x  perception ---------------------------->reality<---------------------------- perception  :x
Title: Re: baling from bombers
Post by: FireDrgn on July 04, 2009, 02:17:32 PM
How about if you get captured from bailing from a formation.. you cant up for a certian amount of time..... that would put and end to it quick
Title: Re: baling from bombers
Post by: Bear76 on July 04, 2009, 02:22:03 PM
Its times like these that you wished the bomber pilots family dog had a nasty disease.  So when there mum is rude with the dog she gets the disease and the bomber catches it shortly afterwards.
Yikes!!
Title: Re: baling from bombers
Post by: Cajunn on July 04, 2009, 03:13:11 PM
How about if you get captured from bailing from a formation.. you cant up for a certian amount of time..... that would put and end to it quick


 :aok
And randomly they take you out back and shoot you, then your done for the night!  :rofl
Title: Re: baling from bombers
Post by: Crash Orange on July 04, 2009, 11:16:27 PM
when a player (and yes I do mean fighters and GVs too) is killed, bails or ditches, there is a delay until they can up again. the length of the delay is the time it would take them to get to the nearest friendly base (or spawn for GVs). speed could be based on the aircraft, or perhaps just fixed. takes away the time incentive for BnBing. I would also extend the proxy range to whatever vis range is set for that arena, removes the kill-denying incentive.

If you punish players for getting killed (as opposed to bailing from a viable airplane) you'll just encourage that much more dweebish play in order to avoid the penalty. People will climb to 30,000 feet or run whenever they don't have every advantage because it's better than sitting in the corner for 20 minutes.
Title: Re: baling from bombers
Post by: usvi on July 05, 2009, 03:32:49 AM
+1  :aok