Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: wrongwayric on July 05, 2009, 09:47:50 AM
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You know they all complain about the restrictor plate races and i agree something needs to be done. So i'm flying last night and it hits me! NASCAR needs WEP!!!
I know it sounds wacky but if they had some way to boost there speed/horsepower for a short time like we do in the game it might solve some issues. Would be an interesting challenge to see how they'd use it. I don't think it would be that hard given the electronic engine controls that we have now.
Work in progress. :x
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I read a column about 10 years ago or so by a sports writer who had an almost identical idea... his idea was to give each car just a few minutes of 100 hp nitrous shot, with a flashing light or strobe on the roof of the car that indicated when the driver was on the juice. They could use it whenever they chose..... lots early to get separation, sparingly throughout the race, or all at then end to run down and pass the leaders.
My opinion, coming from a former NASCAR fan, is if they truly want to slow the cars down, the restrictor plate is not the way to do it and does NOTHING except create to 40+ car pack and the giant wreck waiting to happen, and IMO everyone knows that's what 95% of NASCAR fans show up and tune in to see. Carnage. Break up the pack and take out the 15 car 190 mph wreck and you lose a lot of the crowd.
If they really wanted to slow the cars down they could put a 4000 rpm rev limiter on the engine and a carb 1/4th the flow of what they have now, and take about 30% of their tire width away.
Better yet, let em run totally unrestricted, but make them run the WHOLE track like the Rolex series runs at Daytona - including the infield road course and the bus stop chicane at the end of the back stretch. THAT would be a NASCAR race worth watching.
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Correct me of I'm wrong, but the only track that Nascar uses that has a series of turns that go left AND right is Sears Point, correct?
Maybe make a "no boost" rule for certain tracks like Sears Point..
Most of the time, they are just going fast and turning left..? Slowing cars down especially at bigger tracks like Taledega and Daytona
is kind of pointless.. Races will be longer, less exciting, and eventually bring in less money due to the mediocrity of it all.. Keep 'em fast..
Hell, make 'em faster!! I'm all for the nitrous thing! :rock :rock
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I'm no race fan, but I think Gateway International here in the St. Louis area has both left and right turns.
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Riverside here has left and right turns I believe as well , and it can ger pretty tense for those guys .
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Interesting idea, has possibilities, but I'll tell ya what. If there is no $$$ in it for NASCAR, then it is not happening. I used to love watching, or even listening to the races, now it's just to predictable. If you look back over the last 20+ years at all the changes and evolution, the bottom line has always been and will continue to be "NASCAR does things that will only put $$$$ in their pocket"
10-20 years ago, you could not hardly beg, borrow, or steal a ticket to any race. Now just pick what race you want to see, and its pretty much a gimme you can get tickets, a day or 2 before raceday, and they won't cost much more than face value.
As technology evolves, speeds increase. yet we see COT cars still running the 350 cid size engines. How many cars that run in the series, can you buy off the showroom floor that have a 350 in them? I want to know where I can buy a V-8 powered camary that won on sunday, at a dealers lot on monday.
Personally, I won't be real suprised if you see crate motors in the future. That will slow em down and make them all race. Emphasis will then be on making the car handle. Downfall is, just more $$$ in NASCARS back pocket.
Oh yea, Watkins Glen is the other road course. What do I watch since giving up on Nascar? Dirt track racing :x
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The only problem will be Dover .It is only a mile track so when you use the wep you will fly off the bank into the stands or you will not be able to sue it at all since the top speed was 157 on may 30th race :salute
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Better yet, let em run totally unrestricted, but make them run the WHOLE track like the Rolex series runs at Daytona - including the infield road course and the bus stop chicane at the end of the back stretch. THAT would be a NASCAR race worth watching.
This.
You'll note that a lot of the drivers hire other people to run the winding courses, as well..
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Riverside has been gone for decades. Gateway is a circle track.
NASCAR has two road courses, Sonoma and Watkins Glen.
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Yeah...well CART(Champ Car) tried it. I believe they called it pushed to pass (PTP) where is Champ Car today? Sounds a lot like the "lucky dog," where is the puking smiley when you need it?
Passing does not = racing. I just had to get that out. ;)
Riverside :lol That's nothing but a memory now. :cry
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Remove the restrictor plate and cut 3 to 4 inches off the rear spoiler to decrease the rear down force,
Then you'll see nascar get back to the driver driving the car.
:salute
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The only problem will be Dover .It is only a mile track so when you use the wep you will fly off the bank into the stands or you will not be able to sue it at all since the top speed was 157 on may 30th race :salute
Bristol would be funny to watch with nitrous :t
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As technology evolves, speeds increase. yet we see COT cars still running the 350 cid size engines. How many cars that run in the series, can you buy off the showroom floor that have a 350 in them? I want to know where I can buy a V-8 powered camary that won on sunday, at a dealers lot on monday.
Aren't they all '64 Galaxy's under the skin anyway? IE. Running basically the same frame?
wrongway
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Remove the restrictor plate and cut 3 to 4 inches off the rear spoiler to decrease the rear down force,
Then you'll see nascar get back to the driver driving the car.
:salute
No, you'll see cars in the stands and dead spectators. Not to mention the end of NASCAR.
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My favorite tracks are definately Watkins Glen, Sears Point, and Martinsville.
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Yeah it was Cart that had the power to pass deal and it wasnt that that killed the sport it was cost i believe. :salute
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NASCAR has two road courses, Sonoma and Watkins Glen.
QFT.
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Remove the restrictor plate and cut 3 to 4 inches off the rear spoiler to decrease the rear down force,
Then you'll see nascar get back to the driver driving the car.
:salute
Rethink that logic.
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Bristol would be funny to watch with nitrous :t
Warp speed in a fish bowl!
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Aren't they all '64 Galaxy's under the skin anyway? IE. Running basically the same frame?
wrongway
The cars are basically identical. This decision successfully trashed the mechanical aspect of the race (building the better car) and single-handedly prevented rivalries from forming.
If NASCAR wants to become a valid circuit again, a back-to-basics approach is required.
Right turns wouldnt hurt either.
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restricting the engine, with a plate is not the best they could do! but they cant build a car that will go 195 at Texas and stay under 200 on the superspeedways,
a different spoiler pakage would be the way i think it would be better, heck put a darn bulldozer blade up front, and pull the back wing off,
i wish they would go back to production cars, tho there are few out there, if any rear wheel drive!
watched the first round of induction nominees for the nascar hall of fame last night, man how i miss those old cars, and 427 Chevy's!
the mystery engine, now that was fun, making all the cars the same has ruined nascar for me!
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I was watching a NASCAR race once and had to go to the john. I was bothered because I missed the 38th and 39th left turn.
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I read a column about 10 years ago or so by a sports writer who had an almost identical idea... his idea was to give each car just a few minutes of 100 hp nitrous shot, with a flashing light or strobe on the roof of the car that indicated when the driver was on the juice. They could use it whenever they chose..... lots early to get separation, sparingly throughout the race, or all at then end to run down and pass the leaders.
My opinion, coming from a former NASCAR fan, is if they truly want to slow the cars down, the restrictor plate is not the way to do it and does NOTHING except create to 40+ car pack and the giant wreck waiting to happen, and IMO everyone knows that's what 95% of NASCAR fans show up and tune in to see. Carnage. Break up the pack and take out the 15 car 190 mph wreck and you lose a lot of the crowd.
If they really wanted to slow the cars down they could put a 4000 rpm rev limiter on the engine and a carb 1/4th the flow of what they have now, and take about 30% of their tire width away.
Better yet, let em run totally unrestricted, but make them run the WHOLE track like the Rolex series runs at Daytona - including the infield road course and the bus stop chicane at the end of the back stretch. THAT would be a NASCAR race worth watching.
A few MINUTES? :O
Will this be put in the new reinforced titanium engines?
EDIT: (referenced wrong quote)
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Actually .. if any of you watched the Daytona race ..it was a good race.
Very competetive right to the last turn and home stretch to the finish line, not just one guy hundreds of yards out in front, and definitely not a lot of back markers to wade thru. (who didnt love Tony Stewart holding his line while Kyle Busch went across his front end, turning his own self into the wall ..bye-bye Kyle, better luck in that whole 'SA' thing next time cause Tony dont brake for rookies dood :)
All of the races I have watched this year have been highly competitive ..the driver and team that makes the best choices wins, and luck of the draw (ie: caution flags) reshuffles the field regularly forcing the good drivers to race, no complacent tickin off laps, you gotta get in there and dig if you wanna win, and team strategy is important.
-GE aka Frank
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Aren't the terms "brain" and "nascar" mutually exclusive?? :huh
:P Just kidding. :D
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A few MINUTES? :O
Will this be put in the new reinforced titanium engines?
Well, there are already eleventybillion different ways to handgrenade an engine, this one would just be one more (too long on the bottle, that is). The driver would have the ability to turn off the bottle, just like the systems you find in drag cars and street cars on Nawwzzzzz...
A few minutes worth of "boost" spread out over a 500 mile race (a couple hours) would still have to be carefully conserved and used very wisely.
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Indeed :)
I've been to the track and have seen guys grenade an engine with one, ill-timed (rpm wise) shot.
Race day = FAIL in the blink of an eye. :O
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Sigh....as a racer of many forms of motorsports I take issue with so many parts of this thread. I don't even know where to start......
NASCAR COT chassis are all hand built to a very modern chassis with state of the art suspensions. Nothing old about them....
Nitrous does not hurt engines if tuned properly and your only gaining 12% or so. There are engines that go 50% or more for the same amount of time. Provided the engines are cooled effectively (which they are in NASCAR) they should handle it fine. Remember the only tracks your full throttle are Talledga and Daytona (sometimes not on old tires tho).
PTP.....Push To Pass.....did not kill CART for financial reasons or any reason. In fact it was rather easy considering they all run sealed engines from one manufacture. It was a matter of simply changing a few components and for an additional 100 HP. When not in use the engine management limited the throttle. CART and IRL engines run at limited throttle quite frequently during fuel conservation periods.
The problem with slowing cars down at Daytona and Talledga is cost. Any change you make cost the owners millions. Restricted plate engines are completely different engines than open engines. They run around 2000 rpm slower and run hotter with lighter lubricants and less oil pressure. Pistons, connecting rods, the crankshaft and camshaft are all lighter. The valvetrain is stressed more by higher lift because lower rpm allows more valve opening. The cylinder heads are shaped and ported differently. Imagine all the research that goes into some of these components. Now imagine you change one specification and you end up having to go back thru it all. Aero package changes are better with the COT but still expensive. Things like fender flare, airflow under the car, even exhaust routing can all make a big difference. Look at the exhaust when Ryan Newman flipped his car at Daytona (or Talledga?) some years ago. Compound that with the enormous cost when using wind tunnels and you see where I am going.
Right now an open engine in a COT car at Daytona you will see about 220-225 mph down the back stretch. On fresh tires you would see about 195-200 in the turns assuming they didnt overheat and blow. (more cost...yay!)
With an open design format you would have what Id call Formula USA. You would have massive budgets (more so than now) and what would that leave us now in today economy?
Even if you added 300-500 lbs you run into a host of problems. Increased inertia in crashes, braking load, cornering load (bye bye Goodyears) and what else? Cost...
Covered alot of ground but its a start......it just aint that easy to slow em down and open the field up.
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Riverside has been gone for decades. Gateway is a circle track.
NASCAR has two road courses, Sonoma and Watkins Glen.
Mexico...
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Sigh....as a racer of many forms of motorsports I take issue with so many parts of this thread. I don't even know where to start......
NASCAR COT chassis are all hand built to a very modern chassis with state of the art suspensions. Nothing old about them....
If I'm correct the COT still runs a carb instead of fuel injection? No ECU just electronic ignition? Solid rear axle? Steel tube frame contruction? clutched h-pattern gearboxes?
It would be a lot more accurate to say that the COT is a VERY VERY VERY highly refined incarnation of 40+ year old technology.
NOT that this is bad.... I'm sure it keeps the costs at a fraction of what they could possibly climb to..... but compared to different competitive racing automobiles NASCAR and the COT are as low-tech as it gets.
Now the ALMS Corvette GT1 racecar..... that's tech.......
Right now an open engine in a COT car at Daytona you will see about 220-225 mph down the back stretch. On fresh tires you would see about 195-200 in the turns assuming they didnt overheat and blow. (more cost...yay!)
With an open design format you would have what Id call Formula USA. You would have massive budgets (more so than now) and what would that leave us now in today economy?
Even if you added 300-500 lbs you run into a host of problems. Increased inertia in crashes, braking load, cornering load (bye bye Goodyears) and what else? Cost...
Covered alot of ground but its a start......it just aint that easy to slow em down and open the field up.
like I said, rev limit them instead of an inlet restrictor (make 'em run LS1 crate motors with sealed ECU's that are handed out pre-race and impounded immediately post race, like ASA), take away about 25% of the tire section width and 50% of the aero so they can't flat-foot it through the corners... amd you'll slow 'em way down. You don't need to increase weight, you take away traction, handling and power and BAM! they're back in the range of 175 on the back straights, and they actually can accelerate for a change. And you make the drivers really drive the cars....
<------ 2 time NASA National and SCCA Divisional road racing champ
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They will never do it this way BUT here is my $.02 worth.
January each driver gets 36 cars delivered from the associated manufacturer of them. They are stock vehicles with the biggest motor that each manufacturer has for their vehicles. Front or rear drive does not matter. Car weight can not exceed a certain amount.
By Daytona the different teams must have at least 5 cars ready to drive in the first 5 races. Each car must have a reinforced roll cage but can have all interior stripped out to make room for roll cage, etc...Basically they should go back to what made the sport...what wins on Sunday; sells on Monday!
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Some F1 teams use KERS (Kinetic Energy Recovery Systems) with mixed results which can give a 80hp/60kw boost for 6 secs a lap
Tronsky
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They will never do it this way BUT here is my $.02 worth.
January each driver gets 36 cars delivered from the associated manufacturer of them. They are stock vehicles with the biggest motor that each manufacturer has for their vehicles. Front or rear drive does not matter. Car weight can not exceed a certain amount.
By Daytona the different teams must have at least 5 cars ready to drive in the first 5 races. Each car must have a reinforced roll cage but can have all interior stripped out to make room for roll cage, etc...Basically they should go back to what made the sport...what wins on Sunday; sells on Monday!
+1 more or less!