Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Ripsnort on July 17, 2000, 08:14:00 AM
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I remember F4UDOA bring this subject up before, but I really never knew what he meant until it happened first to me, then after talking with squaddies, them too.
I'm in a shallow dive, 23K, pulling 2 G's, at 395 mph IAS (Approx. 500 mph TAS) and the plane does alittle wobble up and down right prior to the wings ripping off. Its very odd. Aren't these birds tougher than that? I make sure to always check G meter and airspeed whilst diving. Is F4UDOA's point valid? (I think it was him that posted this)
Joystick was calibrated good, so I'm discounting any spikes, since the wobble the A/C did was ever so slight right prior to the wings ripping. Repeated this about 3 times out of 5 sorties yesterday.
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 07-17-2000).]
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Rip,
Yeah I'm the one. It does seem to happen to me as much but I still get it on occassion. I think it is more with the -1D for some reason. I get it at either high speed straight and level with minimal maneuvering or low speed with odd AOA usually virtical rolling then pulling G and looking over my shoulder when wham, the wing fairy comes and takes a wing.
By the way I have been trying to get some unusual features of the F4U corrected for some time. It has been very difficult to get any attention paid to this A/C even though it was considered by many to be the best overall fighter below 25K. I have never agreed with the Accelleration, sustained turn rate or the small size of the site in the reflector screen. And I have also become the village idiot for complaining about these things. Good luck in your quest to fix this much maligned beast.
<S>
F4UDOA
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i'm flying the D exclusively since 4 tours now and the only point where i ripped wings was right after they introduced prop-drag and compression on the HOG, when i went into full compression and ripped wings trying to pull out ..
Ther WAS however a problem that was attributed to "rolling G" when you had pitch and roll input at the asme time in one of the early versions that got corrected tho ..
So i would recommend you to provide some more info ..
e.g. what was your loadout (i didn't take a DT since 2 tours i think), airspeed, atitude, trim, stick input, any previous damage?
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I lost yesterday both wingtips of my F4u-1c when I tried to strafe a tank in H2H mode.. it was pretty short dive.. nose down with 140mph and ditsance to tank was 1.2-1k and pulled up 450 yards from the tank.. *WHAM* wingtips off and I didn't even notice it until I was wondering why this plane isnt rolling.. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
But pretty weak wings or *very* good control surfaces when I had speed max at 280-350mph.
(oh yeah, I kept strafing the tank without wingtips for couple times (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif))
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i have lost wings on every airplane in the game.Usually because of fault of my own.I don't usually fly the corsair but my wingman does and i notice he lost wings fairly regularly.He has gotten better but he still get overzelous with the controls and snaps a few wing every now and again, but i have noticed the f4's lose the wings a little more often than most other plane.Just never when they are attacking me. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Hmmm....
Theres something wrong in my joystick.
I don't remember when was last time I did loose my wings (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Prolly month ago because B-17's autopilot...
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I don't know what's up with this. Some people lose wings, some people don't. I have only lost wings once since beta. Don't fly the hog much though.
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Oh man, I hate the peewee gunsight on that bird. And with it being tilted...that just makes it worse.
I mean, c'mon, a reflected gunsight doesn't look tilted! It's not painted on the windshield. I don't see why they couldn't just make it floating in front of or behind the pane of the gunsight.
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Wing Rips might be on certain joysticks only ? anybody checked if there is a pattern ?
I had No (ok 1 but that was one where the plane HAD to shed it's wings) and i'm using an MS Sidewinder Precission Pro.
what about you guys ?
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Ms Prec.pro here
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<PUNT> --> come on guys .. state which Stick you use and if it produces wing rips..
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You think this is odd? Try what I had happen this morning:
Flew a 190-A5 out of A15 for a little fun. Loaded up a 500kg bomb + rockets, 25% fuel, quad cannons. Took off with no troubles and started a nice slow climb-out....then I see the notch. It's not very big, maybe a mile or so out and formed by two nice-sized mountains. I figure "What the hell!" and dive through it. I find a massive 4k sheer drop on the other side and keep diving; airspeed blows past 400 TAS...starts slowing a bit near 500 TAS. I pull her up REAL easy and bleed the speed down to a little above 350 mph. About that time I spotted this finger coming off the hill, and give a sharp yank on the stick. I got over it, no problems; then my dear A5 went nuts!!!
I hit F4 and get an external view only to find my entire rear-end gone!!!!!! I barely gave the stick a yank and it blew everything behind the cockpit OFF!! At most I pulled 5 Gs in that yank, even then only for literally ONE second.
Did they use Balsa Wood in the tail of the A5 or what?
Flakbait
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Ummmm Flakbait, if I remember right, most aircraft carrying external ordinance was limited to 3 G's.
CH Fighterstick, Pro Throttle, and Pedals here and I can't EVER remember pulling off wings unless I am trying to do it intentionally (ie 600+ IAS and massive G's)
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
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This has happened again, to Ranger bob last night, same scenario:
F4U-1C, no ordance, approx. 50% fuel.
Gentle climb up after killing a con, 2 G max. 300 MPH, suddenly, the nose sudden goes up and down in hyper fluctuations, about 5 degrees, then wings rip off. Both 1C and 1D do this. The work-around is to log off, and log back on.
Any clues?
Its doesn't repeat consistantly, so filming it is tough, unless I and squaddies filmed EVERY mission.
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 09-06-2000).]
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I suffered the same problems when my joystick was spiking.
I replaced it.. problem went away.
I fly the F4u-1c on a regular basis and have not lost my wings under 500 ias without the help of gunfire for quite a few tours.
AKDejaVu
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Digital Ms Sidewinder Prec.pro; No wingtip rip-offs. Maybe it's because no spikes here (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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It may very well be spike related. I haven't had it repeat for me personally since I've replaced the pots...will notify Ranger bob, thks. for you input. <S>
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Flying almost solely the 1D and very rarely do I pop the wings. MOST the time it is head up prettythang syndrome and pull too hard too fast at too high of speed. BUT I have had the time the mech seemed to leave out some wing rivits or my folding wings didn't lock down all the way and in the gentlest of pulls the wings seemed to seperate with a nice loud bang. I use a MS 3d PRO stick. This is a rare event for me but it is one that happens from time to time.
S!
Rocket
VMF-115 Joe's Jokers-RD AH DIV www.reddragons.de (http://www.reddragons.de)
Aces High Training Corp
[This message has been edited by Rocket (edited 09-07-2000).]
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Well, I can say it is stick dependant. I use a MS Sidewinder 3D pro, and have ripped wings once. Aside from the A5 incident above, that's all the airframe abuse I've gone through. I blew the wings off a -D Hog this morning my simply pulling up easily to get out of a 400mph dive. No spikes, no jerks, just a long smooth increase in back stick pressure. Only pulling 1.5 Gs, and WHAM! Suddenly the Hog I'm driving has a 12-foot wingspan.
Did the same thing in a Mudstain. Dive to 400mph and pull out real easy. BANG! No wings. Definitely a rivet problem here. I tried it in a P-47D just for kicks. Only I YANKED the stick to see if I could pop the wings. Nope, nothing happened. Got the stress groan going good, but at 400mph a hard yank on my stick will not blow the wings off a P-47D.
So I guess you just have to set the slider bars in the game to a gradual acceleration and not all at 100%. I've got mine set to start at 70% and go up slowly from there. At 440mph in a 190A5 I can pull hard back, but not yank, and haul it around pulling about 8 Gs. Get a stress groan from the plane, but nothing breaks off.
Flakbait
Delta 6's Flight School (http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6)
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MS Prec Pro USB. Only ripped wings a few times, and they were all well-deserved (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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LJK_Raubvogel
Luftjägerkorps (http://www.luftjagerkorps.com)
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I have only once broke wings of Dweeb-C, both wingtips actually (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I made sharp dive on a tank and pulled up with 250mph, like 300 feets off ground and I were still nose down, but I leveled (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
That while I also lost wingtips (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
(nose got up *really* quick)
With F-4u, if you break wings, I'll say that it was pilots error when using full capabilities of its elevators... (whee, talk about good controls)
In P-51 I tested it offline, I had to get +7Gs to break its wings. (I were blackout before wings gave up, though, weren't just wingtips, but eeverything from the root of wings)
In 190A-5, it was sort of hard to break wings (though, doesn't 190 have thicker wing than P-51? might give extra durability)
What more surprises me is that Spitfrie has tough wings to cut when compares to P-51 (and historically those weren't that tough to damage with high G pulls)
In 109, you can dream about pulling enough (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Spitfire Mk I wings were tested and failed at about 13g...
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Fishu:
I've pulled wings off a 109 three or four times (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Must be my extraordinary skill.
All the times, it left me not pissed, but laughing and almost a little proud (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime
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Let me emphasis that in all the encounters that my group has had with this anomoly in the F4U's, 3 things were common:
-Speed was low, 250-300 TAS
-G meter showed 2 G's or less.
-A GENTLE climb out was being executed.
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I've experienced the same thing Rip. I've noticed that the wings rip on my airplane only after that wobble in pitch occurs. Each case for occurs low G's in a shallow dive, albeit high speed dive under 400 mph. The wings rip if I change any stick pitch input while the airplane is wobbling. Could the wobbling be multiplying stick input by several factors? If so, recovery would be extremely unlikely before the wings rip off due to over-G conditions even though the airplane is not "pulling" constant positive G's.
Been looking for a recovery technique, haven't found one yet.
MiG
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I've found only one recovery technique, ALT-F4. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Thanks for posting your problems as well, guys, maybe it will shed enough light to warrant a look-see by HTC.
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Pyro-1.04:"Made a change to how we model airframe overstress. This fixes most of the unanticipated overstresses, particularly on the wings."
Maybe this addresses the problem.