Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: fuddu2 on July 10, 2009, 12:58:43 AM
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Ok Some of you might keep up on the news. Seems that the Nazis had the stealth bomber before we ever had one down on paper. The Ho 2-29 first built and tested in the air in March 1944 might be a nice touch to the game. I understand the argument why it should not be in the game. Mainly it never saw combat in the war. But wouldnt it be cool if there was a section of the game that had a "What IF Scenario" That had some of this technology from the end of the war. Now I know this probably will never happen in the game but a great story none the less.
(http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/assets_c/2009/06/3942_Hitlers_Stealth_Fighter-04_10240768-thumb-500x375-39614.jpg) (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2484/3634953335_f2d8546653.jpg) (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/bigphotos/images/090625-hitlers-stealth-fighter-plane_big.jpg)
You can read the full story here. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1198112/Sleek-swift-deadly--Hitlers-stealth-bomber-turned-tide-Britain.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1198112/Sleek-swift-deadly--Hitlers-stealth-bomber-turned-tide-Britain.html)
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Never gonna happen and I'm fine with that. Sorry man.
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Fuddu, how "stealthy" was it, exactly?
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It was a late war weapon NEVER USED. But have no fear your shipment of FAIL has arrived
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Fuddu, how "stealthy" was it, exactly?
Watched the special on this over the weekend. Based off the results they got back if the Germans had of produced it would have possibly been a game changer. I forgot what network it was on they also talked about how they test flew it against a 262 & totally owned it in all areas of a dog fight.
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It wasn't invisible, but it would of played hell with squadrons as they tried to scramble to catch planes that basically appeared on top of them.
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Lyric, the most specific meaningful figure I saw was a 20% increase in stealth that, in their models, worked out to an 8min ETA warning instead of 18min (Fw190/Me109) for the Brits.
how they test flew it against a 262 & totally owned it in all areas of a dog fight.
I'm curious about that, if you ever remember more specifics..
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Fuddu, how "stealthy" was it, exactly?
The story reads that the skin was made of wood glue and Charcoal. The B2 bomber is reported to have a high carbon graphite skin. To be honest it looks like they copied alot of the design to make the B2 bomber. :eek:
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Why does everyone think an aircraft is 'stealthy' when it has a flying-wing shape?
EDIT: It's a beautiful aircraft though :aok
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Why does everyone think an aircraft is 'stealthy' when it has a flying-wing shape?
It was designed to be stealthy.
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It was designed to be stealthy.
Yes, but not particularly by means of its flying-wing shape. I think the use of wood and charcoal-dust had more impact on its stealth-capability.
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Lyric, the most specific meaningful figure I saw was a 20% increase in stealth that, in their models, worked out to an 8min ETA warning instead of 18min (Fw190/Me109) for the Brits.I'm curious about that, if you ever remember more specifics..
Not a lot said about it other than faster more maneuverable even though had the same engines as a 262. After the dog fight was called off one of engines flamed out & it crashed killing the test pilot. I also did not know they had a flying prototype I was always under the impression only 1 was made & it never flew. That is incorrect though.
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Yes, but not particularly by means of its flying-wing shape. I think the use of wood and charcoal-dust had more impact on its stealth-capability.
This aircraft was a first step test model as the plan was that they would have the atom bomb by 1947 & it was all leading to a flying wing that would be a Berlin to New York bomber that would be near impossible to see on radar.
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IMO they chose the flying-wing concept for its low-drag and high speed capabilities instead. I can see why they wanted to make THIS model stealthy though, it was by far the most flight-efficient aerofoil.
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It was a late war weapon NEVER USED. But have no fear your shipment of FAIL has arrived
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The irony.
ack-ack
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IMO they chose the flying-wing concept for its low-drag and high speed capabilities instead. I can see why they wanted to make THIS model stealthy though, it was by far the most flight-efficient aerofoil.
I would have thought the same. However per the documentary one of the designers had lost a brother in the battle of Britain & he thought the British had an unfair advantage with radar. So he set out to make a plane that would not be seen by radar or at least to late to do much about it then fly this plane to England to destroy the British radar network. All of his work was to avenge his lost brother. I don't think they would have believed they would come up with a design that flew over 600mph flat & level how ever they did.
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It was designed to be stealthy.
No. It was designed as a flying wing.
In the infancy of radar itself it wasn't so much hide the plane to keep the enemy from knowing you were coming as much as it was to hide the position of the plane to keep it from getting shot by AAA. Hence, "window".]
Nobody designed it with the thought, "what we need is a plane that radar cannot see."
Wood is used for lack of resources to build an aircraft with otherwise. Wood actually weighs more than aluminum. When the Russians had the resources to build LA-5s completely from aluminum instead of half wood the LA-7 became a much more potent aircraft.
wrongway
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Nobody designed it with the thought, "what we need is a plane that radar cannot see."
I think every military design is designed with the Element of suprise in mind. Everything that has ever been made for Military use was done so for one purpose. To out wit, out flank and flat out kill better then the enemy's equipment. Im sure the engineers were thinking alot about the British radar at the time, and how to overcome it.
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No. It was designed as a flying wing.
why the powdered charcoal coating then?
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I get a kick out of how on every damn message board this same thread is happening calling it news.
Read a book and get off my lawn.
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why the powdered charcoal coating then?
Bar-B-Q?
How would powdered charcoal = stealth?
wrongway
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It was a late war weapon NEVER USED. But have no fear your shipment of FAIL has arrived
:lol 15 posts and already ruling the forum with an iron fist! :rofl
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The story reads that the skin was made of wood glue and Charcoal. The B2 bomber is reported to have a high carbon graphite skin. To be honest it looks like they copied alot of the design to make the B2 bomber. :eek:
Stealth = 90% shape & 10% RAM
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It was a late war weapon NEVER USED. But have no fear your shipment of FAIL has arrived
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The irony.
ack-ack
Indeed!
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It was stealthy - but not exactly by design, more by accident and neccessity. The Hortens never said they built it specifically with stealth in mind. They were running out of materials. It was also a death-trap! Allied test pilots refused to fly it after the war. There was no bulkhead between the oil pumps and the pilot, and no bulkhead between the engines and the pilot, and it leaked. On take-off the floor was only covered in canvas - VERY draughty. The guys at Gotha wanted to redesign it before it went for production for some of these reasons.
The Germans simply had no resources to do a proper job by this stage of the war - if they had it would have been a totally different situation. It looks really cool on the outside but inside it was bad-news.
It was known as the Horten IX, but given the spec. number 229 by the air ministry. The Hortens didn't like calling it the Ho-229, but if it had been manufactured by Gotha it would have been known as the Go-229.
Now if they'd had more resources and a little more time... then that might have been another story. However when the aircraft reached trans-sonic speeds then buffeting would have become a serious issue - more than a plane with a fuselage.
Ref: Horten Ho 229 Spirit of Thuringia (Shepelev & Ottens)
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Here is a link to the special I watched.
http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/episode/hitler-s-stealth-fighter-3942/Videos/06845_00#tab-Videos/06845_00
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Threads like this are why the Discover Channel is going to hell in a handbasket. Shame on the crap they pass off as "documentary" -- more like claptrap and yellow journalism.
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(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/6268/755pxyb492300.jpg) (http://img5.imageshack.us/i/755pxyb492300.jpg/)
Performance
Maximum speed: 495 mph (793 km/h)
Range: 9,978 mi (16,057 km) Maximum[2]
Combat radius: 1,615 mi (2,599 km)
Service ceiling: 45,700 ft (13,900 m)
Rate of climb: 3,758 ft/min (19.1 m/s)
Wing loading: 33 lb/ft² (163 kg/m²)
Thrust/weight: 0.23
Armament
Guns: 4 × .50 in (12.7 mm) machine guns
Bombs: 32,000 lb (14,500 kg)
So if his 1945 german prototype is stealthy can this be a stealth too, also it NEEDS to be added!
Also for Fun...
Popular culture
"Stock footage of a YB-49 in flight appeared in The War of the Worlds. In the movie, the Flying Wing was tasked with dropping an atomic bomb on the invading Martians."
It Needs a Nuke!
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Threads like this are why the Discover Channel is going to hell in a handbasket. Shame on the crap they pass off as "documentary" -- more like claptrap and yellow journalism.
Yeah!!! just as well it was on National Geographic huh?
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I didn't even have to read the post to say NO!
I read the post and say NO!
Also, this has to be a worse idea than my recent idea of chasing a F6F through ship ack in FSO tonight!
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Yeah!!! just as well it was on National Geographic huh?
:rofl
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Lyric, you remember if this was a german or post war test?
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Lyric, you remember if this was a german or post war test?
If your talking about the Go-229 vs Me-262 dogfight the show said it was during test flights by the Germans. It said that Erwin Ziller flew it against a Me-262 and the 229 out preformed it in dogfighting ability, maneuverability, and speed.
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This was in operational cfg, with the production engines?
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It said that it was flying with the same engines as the Me262 so Im guessing Jumo 004Bs.
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So it's at least a good airframe comparison, thanks :)
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Bar-B-Q?
How would powdered charcoal = stealth?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar_absorbent_material (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar_absorbent_material) :)
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Only planes that actually logged some combat flight hours are actually available in game. However, the plane in the OP is (I'm guessing a revised build) of the other flying wing (which was significantly larges due to wingspan). As far as I can remember was that the Nazi's constructed it with the plans of utilizing it to drop a nuke on the US eastern seaboard (I want to say their intended target was NYC, since it was an economic powerhouse).
However, I seem to remember it having 4 prop engines - but my memory isn't the greatest, so I'm possibly wrong. I might have to do some research on this later on today.
Overall though, these planes were prototypes and were never "combat-worthy" or even used in combat, so they would never appear in this game.
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True it will never appear in the game but you have to admit it is a very amazing looking plane. Give it a new paint job & you could slide it in to a Star wars movie & it would not look out of place. Then remember the fact that it is approaching a 70 year old design.
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And that one of the NG techs says it only needs a few tweaks to be used today.
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Howabout them democratic, communist, republican, socialist and liberal stealth bombers? When do we get them :furious ... :noid :P