Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Brooke on July 12, 2009, 12:20:03 AM

Title: Interesting comment from P-38 pilot I talked to today -- for SAPP folks
Post by: Brooke on July 12, 2009, 12:20:03 AM
At a WWII fighter-pilot panel discussion today at The Museum of Flight in Seattle, I got to talk to a P-38 pilot.  Stanley P. Richardson, Jr. of the 55th Fighter Group flew 126 missions in P-38's.  He did a lot of bomber escort as well as ground attack, was in the first group of US fighters to fly over Berlin, flew patrol over the beaches of Normandy during D-Day, and even did some level bombing as led by a "droop snoot" model of the P-38.

Stan Richardson and crew next to his plane:
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_juYRgk4Y3Nc/Sixg8ZO-2bI/AAAAAAAAAbM/yeDmGociDBM/s320/Richardson-Flight+Crew.jpg)

Mr. Richardson loved the P-38 and felt that it was a wonderful fighter.  There have been a lot of stories about problems with the P-38 in the European theater, specifically problems with engine reliability at high altitudes.  I asked Mr. Richardson about that.  He did not feel that there were problems with the Allisons or their turbochargers at high altitude, but that the main problem with the P-38 at altitude was only one thing:  poor cockpit heating.  He said that the P-38 had a small electric heater in the cockpit, and at high altitudes, the cockpit temperature would get down to -30 deg. F or lower.  Later, when they upgraded the heaters in P-38's, it improved things by 10 degrees F, but that's still extremely cold.  He said they'd wear outfits as warm as they could manage, but still, the extreme cold would cause problems on the long high-altitude missions, adding a great deal to physical fatigue.

He also flew 24 missions in P-51's.  He liked the P-51 -- by contrast he said that the heater in the P-51 was such that you could fly it even at high altitudes with nothing more than a light jacket.  But he thought the P-38 was superior in a dogfight and better for ground attack.  Go, SAPP! :)
Title: Re: Interesting comment from P-38 pilot I talked to today -- for SAPP folks
Post by: Hoarach on July 12, 2009, 12:24:38 AM
 :aok

I wonder how he thought it performed in certain situations such as low speed handling.   :confused:
Title: Re: Interesting comment from P-38 pilot I talked to today -- for SAPP folks
Post by: Saxman on July 12, 2009, 12:24:46 AM
Seems a number of aircraft had teething problems with cockpit heaters. That was one of the things that led the XF4F-3 to initially be bypassed in favor of the F2A.
Title: Re: Interesting comment from P-38 pilot I talked to today -- for SAPP folks
Post by: Guppy35 on July 12, 2009, 12:49:41 AM
A P38 pilot I talked to in the past, said he used to wrap old YANK magazines around his legs as insulation to ward off the cold in the cockpit.  Thanks for posting that Brooke
Title: Re: Interesting comment from P-38 pilot I talked to today -- for SAPP folks
Post by: Brooke on July 12, 2009, 01:29:30 AM
:aok

I wonder how he thought it performed in certain situations such as low speed handling.   :confused:

All the pilots I've heard comment on it have thought that the P-38 handled wonderfully at low speed (or actually at all speeds except in compressibility), so I didn't ask him about that.

I did ask him about compressibility.  He said that they kept that in mind and tried to stay out of compressibility.  He didn't seem to consider it to be a major drawback.
Title: Re: Interesting comment from P-38 pilot I talked to today -- for SAPP folks
Post by: Bear76 on July 12, 2009, 03:20:30 AM
Good stuff Brooke. now HTC will have to model the heater :D
Title: Re: Interesting comment from P-38 pilot I talked to today -- for SAPP folks
Post by: The Fugitive on July 12, 2009, 08:11:46 AM
Good stuff Brooke. now HTC will have to model the heater :D

Most of us SAPP guys have the new heaters already, we even named them..... Engine#1, and engine#2   :D
Title: Re: Interesting comment from P-38 pilot I talked to today -- for SAPP folks
Post by: Shuffler on July 12, 2009, 11:15:28 AM
Thanks Brooke!

Did he mention anything about the blender?
Title: Re: Interesting comment from P-38 pilot I talked to today -- for SAPP folks
Post by: daddog on July 12, 2009, 11:20:31 AM
 :aok
Thanks for posting about it. :)
Title: Re: Interesting comment from P-38 pilot I talked to today -- for SAPP folks
Post by: MjTalon on July 12, 2009, 11:23:14 AM
 :aok
Wonderful read. Explains why alot of 38 units were in the PTO in later parts of the war.

 :salute
Title: Re: Interesting comment from P-38 pilot I talked to today -- for SAPP folks
Post by: Widewing on July 12, 2009, 11:26:15 AM
I've known Stan Richardson for years. Great guy, completely candid. He contributed to a P-38 piece I wrote with Dr. Kopp.

Stan was an instructor at a P-38 RTU. His specialty was single-engine aerobatics. Many students had heard that if you lost and engine on the P-38, it was a death trap. Stan knew otherwise and would spend hours showing new P-38 pilots what the Lightning could do on one engine.

Stan wrote:
"The airplane was a "dream" on single-engine. While I was instructing in P-38's at Muroc AAF, on occasion the instructor and three students (four ship flight) would each feather the right propeller (remember, only a single generator, and that on the left engine) for a "tail chase" which included loops, slow and barrel rolls, and just generally having a good time. The exercise was to instill confidence in the pilots ability to control the aircraft on one engine. My area of "expertise" while instructing at Muroc was single-engine demo's in a piggyback P-38. Take-off on two engines, feather the right engine shortly after take-off. Climb to 10,000'. Demonstrate various emergency procedures (landing gear and flap extension), propeller operation in fixed pitch (simulating electrical failure), high speed stalls, a loop, a roll or two, then return to the airfield for landing on one engine. Make a typical fighter approach on the deck, pitch out, drop the landing gear, then some flaps, finally full flaps and plunk it onto the runway.

For a short period in my life flying P-38's I had as much time on one engine as I did on two. Keep in mind that most of my P-38 flying occurred just after my 20th birthday. Some of my P-38 combat time was while I was a 20 year old snot-nosed kid. No brains, lotsa luck. Gad! I love that bird..... "




My regards,

Widewing
Title: Re: Interesting comment from P-38 pilot I talked to today -- for SAPP folks
Post by: MjTalon on July 12, 2009, 11:45:13 AM
Thanks WW for the wonderful read. I'm curious is to more information on maneuvering the 38 with one engine. Any references you would recommend sir?


 :salute
Title: Re: Interesting comment from P-38 pilot I talked to today -- for SAPP folks
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on July 12, 2009, 01:00:11 PM
Captain Richardson is a great guy. At one point, I must have had 200 emails from him. We had a pretty good email group going there, with maybe 15 pilots in it. At one time, it included Stan, JB Popnoe, Ken Lloyd, Art Heiden, Bill Safarik, Don Rheimer, and nearly a dozen others.

There was a time when, if you knew where to look and how to act, you could get hooked up with dozens of pilots. In one twelve month period, I think I came up with about one new email address a week. Those were the days.

WW, if you speak with Art or Stan, tell them Alan said hello, and God Bless.
Title: Re: Interesting comment from P-38 pilot I talked to today -- for SAPP folks
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on July 12, 2009, 01:06:09 PM
By the way, Stan used to make the trek over to Tillamook NAS museum on a fairly regular basis. There you'll find a P-38, painted as a salute to Jeff Ethell's father Erv Ethell, called "Tangerine". If you should ever be there, and see an older gentleman leaned up against that P-38, with a wistful look in his eye, and one hand caressing its curves, it's probably Stan. His wife will tell you "that's the other woman".
Title: Re: Interesting comment from P-38 pilot I talked to today -- for SAPP folks
Post by: Brooke on July 12, 2009, 01:57:00 PM
Thanks, Widewing!  Excellent post.
Title: Re: Interesting comment from P-38 pilot I talked to today -- for SAPP folks
Post by: Brooke on July 12, 2009, 02:00:45 PM
By the way, Widewing, based on your recommendation, I read The Lockheed P-38 Lightning, by Warren M. Bodie, and I loved it.  What an awesome book.  You are involved in the publishing, correct?  I wish that there were such a book (with such detail and depth of information) for each WWII aircraft.
Title: Re: Interesting comment from P-38 pilot I talked to today -- for SAPP folks
Post by: Bear76 on July 12, 2009, 02:18:41 PM
Most of us SAPP guys have the new heaters already, we even named them..... Engine#1, and engine#2   :D
Good I was worried AKAK might catch a cold :D
Title: Re: Interesting comment from P-38 pilot I talked to today -- for SAPP folks
Post by: mensa180 on July 12, 2009, 04:04:35 PM
Thanks for the posts Brooke and WW :).
Title: Re: Interesting comment from P-38 pilot I talked to today -- for SAPP folks
Post by: Widewing on July 12, 2009, 10:39:10 PM
By the way, Widewing, based on your recommendation, I read The Lockheed P-38 Lightning, by Warren M. Bodie, and I loved it.  What an awesome book.  You are involved in the publishing, correct?  I wish that there were such a book (with such detail and depth of information) for each WWII aircraft.


Warren's P-38 book preceded my association with him by several years. We wrote together for Flight Journal. Larger projects were considered, but I didn't have the time to dedicate to them. Bodie knows his stuff and has an enormous photo and document collection. He also knows just about everyone in the business.

Many of the more well known aviation writers use Facebook (public and private groups) and twitter to keep in touch and share resources. Many people here would recognize most names in these groups. Boyne, Gamble, Hammel, Bruning and Tillman, to name just a few. Many also use Scribd to market material and make available free articles. Scribd is just beginning to take off and should be a great resource for the public to buy low cost PDF copies of new and previously published works in all disciplines of writing. Eric Hammel has put a great deal of his work up on the site.


My regards,

Widewing

Title: Re: Interesting comment from P-38 pilot I talked to today -- for SAPP folks
Post by: jdbecks on July 13, 2009, 05:12:29 AM
Thanks Brooke!

Did he mention anything about the blender?

I keep seeing this coming up from time to time, but cant find out what it means? whats the story behind the blender?  :noid
Title: Re: Interesting comment from P-38 pilot I talked to today -- for SAPP folks
Post by: crazyivan on July 13, 2009, 05:39:05 AM
good thread, read it all and  im ADD. :salute

you said hammel has a sight will check it out.
Title: Re: Interesting comment from P-38 pilot I talked to today -- for SAPP folks
Post by: Shuffler on July 13, 2009, 10:17:12 AM
I keep seeing this coming up from time to time, but cant find out what it means? whats the story behind the blender?  :noid

It has to do with S.A.P.P. and the Consortium Of Twelve.

Consortium of 12
Skuzzy = Grand Exalted Ruler of the Consortium of 12 ex officio
CokryJR = Exalted Ruler pro tempore
Raptor = Exalted Ruler pro tempore emeritus
AKAK= Esteemed Leading Knight of Oxygen and altitidue
Murdr = Esteemed Loyal Knight of the Duct Tape
Shuffler = Esteemed Lecturing Knight of the Blender   <<<<<<<<<<
Estes = Gracious Secretary
Delirium = Treasurer
Soulyss= Inner Guard
SaVage = Esquire
Mensa = Eunuch
Fianna = Organist

That is all I am allowed to tell you unless you know the secret handshake.
Title: Re: Interesting comment from P-38 pilot I talked to today -- for SAPP folks
Post by: Widewing on July 13, 2009, 08:34:50 PM
good thread, read it all and  im ADD. :salute

you said hammel has a sight will check it out.

Eric's website:
http://www.erichammelbooks.com/ (http://www.erichammelbooks.com/)

Scribd
http://www.scribd.com/ (http://www.scribd.com/)
Do a search for Eric Hammel


My regards,

Widewing

Title: Re: Interesting comment from P-38 pilot I talked to today -- for SAPP folks
Post by: alskahawk on July 14, 2009, 10:36:58 PM
 Its easy to overlook little things like heaters..as long as your not the one in the cockpit. It gets cold and then its hard to concentrate on the things you need to do.