Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: maddafinga on July 12, 2009, 09:04:58 PM
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So I flew the 61 a bit yesterday for the first time really and discovered that I liked it pretty well. I plan on flying it somewhat more often now. Now I'm kind of fishing for tips and guidance with it. Anyone with experience fighting with or against this bird want to chime in with advice on it, or impression formed from fighting against it? I've read the Soda's breakdown of it but didn't feel like it was all that helpful to me. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
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<-- waiting for the inevitable rant about how this "community" deems the Ki-61 to be a "POS" :uhoh
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Uh... yeah... That's right.... It's a POS... right. (*WINK*)
Nobody should fly it, not worth learning! :cool: :D
P.S. Short ammo clip, get in close, a solid burst from the 20mms in the nose will take care of almost anything.
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KI61 is great plane, and definately under rated by the AH community. For what i know about the Ki, is keep it going fast because if you do need to fight an enemy your gunna need the speed to reverse them or have enough speed to avoid them till you can get some help. The 61 can BNZ very well because it has great guns and can turn well at high dive speeds. Make sure you dont take too much fuel, 75% will let you fly over the enemy base for 20 minutes so take your time when your that heavy, i normal take 50 and drops and drop once i see first con :salute
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I only ever flew the Ki-61 during the August Storm FSO, and maybe it's just me but I find the gun arrangement with the cannon in the nose and wing mounted machine guns rather awkward (but I'm used to "sighting in" with the cowl guns before opening up with the cannon whenever I'm flying a Japanese ride). I definitely prefer the more "conventional" layout used by the A6M and Ki-84. Not all that great of a sight picture, either.
Didn't have much chance to really get a feel for her, (we engaged a horde of B-25Cs on the deck) but I've rarely been concerned when I encounter one in my F4U so long as I've got room to work with her.
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I've gotten fairly used to flying the 109s as of late, or the YakU some too, so the ammo load feels ok to me really. I'm also pretty used to getting in really close to shoot, because of flying the 109s and Yak, so that's not an issue either really. I was taking 100 percent fuel, just out of habit really, so I'll experiment some with lesser amounts. I didn't get close to running out of gas before I did ammo, so that's prolly a good tip there, thanks. I kinda like the nose mounted cannons, but that's probably due to my other rides as of late.
I sort of felt like it handled pretty well fast and seemed to keep its E pretty well too. I had a bit of trouble slowing it down to get in close with guys, and once I did, it didn't seem to build its E back up too quickly either. I didn't feel like it was a pos at all though. It felt a little bit like a p40e to me, but maybe a bit more nimble.
Saxman, when you say room to work, do you mean like vertical separation or altitude or what exactly?
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madda,
I mostly refer to situations where the Ki-61 has the alt advantage. I like to have some air underneath me so I can work him a bit, especially try to force him to overshoot and reverse our positions so I'm on top, which isn't too hard against the Tony because of her poor sustained climb. Otherwise I'll work her until I can draw her in close and sap her of E, but again that takes a little bit of room.
Col-alt and E or coming from an alt advantage I really have no concern of Ki-61s.
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KI61 is great plane, and definately under rated by the AH community. For what i know about the Ki, is keep it going fast because if you do need to fight an enemy your gunna need the speed to reverse them or have enough speed to avoid them till you can get some help. The 61 can BNZ very well because it has great guns and can turn well at high dive speeds. Make sure you dont take too much fuel, 75% will let you fly over the enemy base for 20 minutes so take your time when your that heavy, i normal take 50 and drops and drop once i see first con :salute
You don't have to keep it fast, you have to keep it in it's flight envelope and it will turn with all but the very best turning planes (and it's not too far behind those). While you can BnZ with it I wouldn't recommend it. There's much better planes for that role. Acceleration isn't great and climb rate is pretty much on the poor side so if you plan on escaping vertically then yeah, I suppose you want to be fast.
I fly the Tony with 75% fuel... one of the very few planes I don't carry 100% in.
I really like the Tony. It's fun to kill those who totally underestimate it's capabilities. Don't be afraid to get down and dirty with it.
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You don't have to keep it fast, you have to keep it in it's flight envelope and it will turn with all but the very best turning planes (and it's not too far behind those). While you can BnZ with it I wouldn't recommend it. There's much better planes for that role. Acceleration isn't great and climb rate is pretty much on the poor side so if you plan on escaping vertically then yeah, I suppose you want to be fast.
I fly the Tony with 75% fuel... one of the very few planes I don't carry 100% in.
I really like the Tony. It's fun to kill those who totally underestimate it's capabilities. Don't be afraid to get down and dirty with it.
Wasnt sure what type of stick madda was. :salute
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<-- waiting for the inevitable rant about how this "community" deems the Ki-61 to be a "POS" :uhoh
:rofl :aok
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You don't have to keep it fast, you have to keep it in it's flight envelope
Agreed. Keep the speed in the 200s. Don't plan to do a lot of climbing. Don't leave the flaps out too long, but a notch or two, dropped and pulled up quickly, help the turns quite a lot. Don't be afraid to follow any other plane in a dive.
- oldman
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<-- waiting for the inevitable rant about how this "community" deems the Ki-61 to be a "POS" :uhoh
I find the Ki-61 to be highly underrated by the general public...
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Wasnt sure what type of stick madda was. :salute
Heh, well I'd say that I'm average, maybe just a hair better on a good day. I used to be good at this stuff but then I had 8 or 9 years off. I've only been here for about 7 months or so now. I can keep a plane in the envelope of its effectiveness though. I plan to do a good bit more of flying it now, it seemed to be prett solid with no real weaknesses that I could find in an evening of flying it.
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Cannons in the nose, high ROF, fair clip (esp if you are quick on the trigger)
Very good in its envelope, very dead very quickly if you try to push it out of its envelope.
Fun plane, as mentioned many times before, considerably under rated by most of the AH community.
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I love the KI-61.. The only thing I don't like is the shortage of ammo. It would be nice if it were a little faster though.
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Madda it was good to see you last night and give you some tips. If you want I can roll one or two sorties, have you join in my plane and I can give you good film.
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Yeah man, that sounds great! I really like the feel of it flying and fighting both and the ammo seems to me to go a long way. The nose mounted guns really feel pretty deadly to me. I'll give you a shout next time I see you up. Thanks!
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Ki-61 should turn with the FM2, but it doesn't. Hopefully when it gets updated they'll look at that.
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Ki-61 should turn with the FM2, but it doesn't. Hopefully when it gets updated they'll look at that.
It's pretty close. I fought that match-up one day while flying a Ki-61 and I won. I held a slight E advantage through the entire fight that the FM2 just couldn't stay with.
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the ki61 is a good plane but i struggle maintaining E.
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Personally, I like it. It's one of the rides I like to take up when I'm having one of those indecisive moments where I really can't make up my mind what to fly, or when I'm in a low 'spread out' furball. Compared to the N1K2, it feels a bit more "crisp". It's roll rate isn't too bad, and the gun package is pretty decent, though it's not a Ta-152 (another one of my favorite birds, even in a low level fight). It's pretty responsive, but it's definitely not a perk ride. It doesn't have war-winning speed or spitfire like turning, but it's something I can be relatively sure I'm gonna knock a few birds down with. The 84 and 61 are some of my favorite 'obscure' rides, especially since they out maneuver the P39 and P40, which are some of the other 'obscure' rides I take up often. Overall, a good performer, but it's not an uuber ride. I'd take one over a pony, though.
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Good ride overall but slightly underpowered and a little sloppy at lower speeds.
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Good ride overall but slightly underpowered and a little sloppy at lower speeds.
Explain how this comes up most of the time. I have NEVER had troubles with this ride even as low as 80mph. This ride is one of the most forgiving in the plane set.
Are you guys using flaps? I don't and have no issues turning at very slow speeds.
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Explain how this comes up most of the time. I have NEVER had troubles with this ride even as low as 80mph. This ride is one of the most forgiving in the plane set.
Are you guys using flaps? I don't and have no issues turning at very slow speeds.
It could just be my stick setup (I use a highly advanced 2 yrs old Saitek AV8R woot).
Since you asked I went back into my vast memory stores and searched for a more detailed explanation. For me the Ki61 handles well overall and fights well as long as I don't point the nose up high for longer than a few seconds. She seems to lose speed quickly in a vertical fight and thats where she mushes out quickly being slow to get her nose back down. Not a great E fighter for me. As long as I keep the nose level or down and keep the speed up I do well in this machine.
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In my opinion the KI-61 is an awesome plane. It can be used as a BNZer as well as a turn fighter. It dives better than most other Jap planes. It can get over 500 miles per hour in a dive. The cannons are very easy to aim with as they are center mounted. I think it keeps its E fairly well but not as good as some of the others in the set. It climb rate is decent. You will find that it also takes more damage than the other planes in the set. Over all it's a great plane.
The only things I wish I could change would be the speed in level flight and more ammo. :aok
:rock
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Explain how this comes up most of the time. I have NEVER had troubles with this ride even as low as 80mph. This ride is one of the most forgiving in the plane set.
Are you guys using flaps? I don't and have no issues turning at very slow speeds.
Karaya, we've flown countless duels with the Ki-61 vs much of the plane set. At low speed, flaps out, it wallows badly. A P-40E will eat it alive under those circumstances. This happened as a byproduct of the drag model change a few years ago. The Ki-61 took a big drag hit when using flaps. Thus, its ability to compete with much of the plane set is impaired once the flaps come out. It turns a reasonably small circle, but the rate of turn is nothing less than horrendous. That is what gets it killed.
My regards,
Widewing
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Karaya, we've flown countless duels with the Ki-61 vs much of the plane set. At low speed, flaps out, it wallows badly. A P-40E will eat it alive under those circumstances. This happened as a byproduct of the drag model change a few years ago. The Ki-61 took a big drag hit when using flaps. Thus, its ability to compete with much of the plane set is impaired once the flaps come out. It turns a reasonably small circle, but the rate of turn is nothing less than horrendous. That is what gets it killed.
Oddly, this has not been my experience. We have Tonys v. P40Es fairly frequently in AvA, always a close match. Usually, though, the Tonys come out on top. Possibly this is because they seem to hold energy a bit better than the P-40s, so they don't need to use the flaps as much. Possibly it's attributable to the Tony's better armament.
It's not a wonder plane, of course, I don't think anyone would want to fly it against Spitfires, which might be why it gets into more trouble in the MA than it does in the AvA.
- oldman
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I haven't had too much trouble with it wallowing at low speeds myself, but I usually stay off the flaps as much as possible. My main problem with it at the moment seems to be shedding enough speed when I need to. Maybe I need to work nose up a bit more when I get in that situation. I'm still not a great stick yet for one thing, and I'm still pretty new to the 61 too, so I've got an awful lot to learn.
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Oddly, this has not been my experience. We have Tonys v. P40Es fairly frequently in AvA, always a close match. Usually, though, the Tonys come out on top. Possibly this is because they seem to hold energy a bit better than the P-40s, so they don't need to use the flaps as much. Possibly it's attributable to the Tony's better armament.
It's not a wonder plane, of course, I don't think anyone would want to fly it against Spitfires, which might be why it gets into more trouble in the MA than it does in the AvA.
- oldman
One of my favorite things to do is fly dissimilar aircraft duels. Which is why I stated that I've flown the Ki-61 against just about everything, usually flown by the better 1v1 duelists.
Arena type fights rarely begin with all things being equal. Duels generally do. In a 1v1, Co-E, Co-Alt, the P-40E can gain an advantage quickly. Better ailerons and flaps that can begin being deployed at 400 mph will allow the P-40 to win the reverse. In fact, the Ki-61 should extend a bit before reversing or the P-40 will have the edge from the get-go. Since these two have virtually identical acceleration and climb (slight edge to the P-40 below 10k), this fight will eventually degrade into a turning contest. Once slow, flaps will be needed. Once flaps come out, the drag penalty for the Ki-61 is unsustainable. Turn rate degrades rapidly and stability goes south. On the other hand, the P-40 handles better and turns a smaller circle at a faster rate. If it comes down to a lufbery on the deck, the Ki-61 is a dead duck. Thus, the Ki-61 must attempt to get the kill as fast as possible, before the fight devolves too far.
My regards,
Widewing
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Karaya, we've flown countless duels with the Ki-61 vs much of the plane set. At low speed, flaps out, it wallows badly. A P-40E will eat it alive under those circumstances. This happened as a byproduct of the drag model change a few years ago. The Ki-61 took a big drag hit when using flaps. Thus, its ability to compete with much of the plane set is impaired once the flaps come out. It turns a reasonably small circle, but the rate of turn is nothing less than horrendous. That is what gets it killed.
My regards,
Widewing
CC that WW. 100% of the times in this game when I'm in an La7 and Ki-61, I do not deploy flaps. I'll work the throttle accordingly. I know some are going to pile on me for sounding "egotistical" for saying this. But, if you deploy flaps in either ride mentioned, you're in the Tower. Both of these rides are capable turners when the flaps are left up and you're able to find the proper "comfort zone". But a lot of people who fly, try "to fight the other guys fight".
WW, we'll have to set something up for some 1 vs 1's. I already know going into it, you'll be the one teaching me. :rock
Simaril and I have had many 1 vs 1's in the MA's, with him in the 40. Most of the time I won, but they were ALL 6+ minute fights. Where afterwards, both of us are shaking and drained of energy. I find now if I roll a Ki-61, I'm getting ganged.
I've taught everything I know and have learned from Helm and Goth, to 4XTCH & Nisky. 4X is almost identical to me in the "unpredictability aspect" and is dangerous. Nisky is younger than me and has better eyesight. I've only just returned to the Ki-61 after a 7 month break from it.
Right now I'm trying to give Training to Madda. Our schedules conflict, but I want to give him the opportunity to pick my brain and give him the best help possible.
Regardless, excellent post WW. <<S>>
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Listen to "Helm"?? ...that guy is a clueless noob! ....no wonder you have problems :D
I all seriousness ....I never use flaps in the KI61 except to land ...maybe occasionally at top of a loop ...or a "rope a dope" ....but that is rare
I can get the Ki61 down to about 105ias and it still fly's...so I never need them ....I never open them in a flat turn ..Wide Wing is right it creates a ton of drag
Helm...out