Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: -=Silo=- on July 19, 2000, 12:58:00 PM
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I have always wondered (but have never found evidence)if the d9 could be.. or have been rigged to mount 4x20mm? Since the wing is the A8 wing, it would seem to me that this would have been a reasonable option for the LW. Anyone care to enlighten me please.
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-=Silo=-
AVG "Flying Tigers"
**WoOF!**
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Yes it could, I dont know that it ever did. Some of the later D dmarks D11? D13? might have been designated as 4 cannon birds.
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I have seen pictures of D9's with the mounts for 4 cannons, but thats because they were converted A models. But I have never seen a D9 pic with all 4 cannons actually mounted.
Of course thats not a definitive answer either way.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
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Verm you talk about THIS Fw190D9 ? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
(http://cipres.cec.uchile.cl/~bebustos/jpg/fw190d9.jpg)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 07-19-2000).]
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Yes, Ram, that is one of the prototypes based on the A frame. Note the fuse length. William Green notes in his book that no production 190D-9's had more than the 2x20mm's.
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There is no reason you couldn't mount them. Of course they never came out of the factory like that. The LW field modified so many planes there really is no way to know if any did fly that way. I'd bet that a few at least did though.
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I would much rather have the no cowl guns 3X151/20 option....
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Spyhawk-
Of course, you are right. The point is that no production D-9 appears to have had 4x20mm. What can be allowed as field modification is anyone's guess. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Dora getting 4 x 20 mm would be like... Spit IX getting 4 x 20 mm.
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Funked! Nooooo!
(pulls .45 and points at own head)
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No funked ... you got it wrong.. that would be like Spitfire XIV getting 4x20mm (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Right RAM ?
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Bartlomiej Rajewski
aka. Wing Commander fd-ski
Northolt Wing
1st Polish Fighter Wing
303 (Polish) Squadron "Kosciuszko" RAF
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
315 (Polish) Squadron "City of Deblin" RAF
Turning 109s and 190s into scrap metal since 1998
Northolt Wing Headquarters (http://www.raf303.org/northolt/)
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Its not like a spit Vb getting 4 cannons(they acctually served that way)
Its not like a Spit XIV getting them(not even a prototype had 4 that I know of)
Ditto for Spit IX
It is most like a P51B getting 4 cannons. There was only one and it was a prototype.
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I've seen a photo of a Spitfire Mk IX with 4 cannon. And a Mk VIII(I think) with 6. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Originally posted by Pongo:
It is most like a P51B getting 4 cannons. There was only one and it was a prototype.
LOL Hang protect your ears, Hairball's MEEEEOOOOWWWW is going to kill them!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
I dont want to met, NEVER, a 4 hispano P51 with Hang in the cockpit...
Hristo in 190A, Torque in F4U1-C, Hang in 4 cannon P51B and Fariz in 6 hispano Spitfire VIII....
Has someone read "4 riders of the apocalypse??" (sorry spelling and title...direct translation from spanish (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif))
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Actually, it was the Allision engine P-51 (no suffix) that was armed with 4 x 20mm cannon. The P-51A came later (as did the A-36).
I think there were around 150 P-51's built. Don't have my good reference handy...some saw combat in the MTO.
They were mostly used by the USAF as photo-recon aircraft (retaining their cannons) in North Africa. Not sure what happened to them.
-Smut
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XO, The squealing Pigs
http://www.flyingpigs.com (http://www.flyingpigs.com)
"Oink! Oink! To War!"
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Smut, we had a big session about the P-51 / Mustang Mk. Ia a couple of months ago. The RAF planes kept their cannons, but the USAAF planes had .50 cal installed.
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Originally posted by Smut:
Actually, it was the Allision engine P-51 (no suffix) that was armed with 4 x 20mm cannon. The P-51A came later (as did the A-36).
I think there were around 150 P-51's built. Don't have my good reference handy...some saw combat in the MTO.
They were mostly used by the USAF as photo-recon aircraft (retaining their cannons) in North Africa. Not sure what happened to them.
-Smut
There is a picture of a P51B in Wings of Fame with 4 hispanos.
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We may do the P-51 one day. As for the D-9 I think this would be much more interesting.
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/pyro/smg.gif)
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
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I may seem stupid...but WTF is that?? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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It's one of the secret weapons of the Luftwaffe.
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/pyro/smg2.gif)
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
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its a glider with an MP 40 ?
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Originally posted by Nath-BDP:
its a glider with an MP 40 ?
For sure seems so...
Pyro if you bring THAT instead a 190d9...I...I am gonna...gonna cry!!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
(well for sure in that plane you dont neet to get worried about engine damage (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif))
(but the wing ripping would ba worrying thing anyway (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif))
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Originally posted by funked:
Smut, we had a big session about the P-51 / Mustang Mk. Ia a couple of months ago. The RAF planes kept their cannons, but the USAAF planes had .50 cal installed.
Nope, sorry, I have to disagree. The USAAF *did* use the P-51 (with 4 x 20mm) in combat...Only a handful though.
I know this isn't a picture of the real thing, but I can offer this link up:
http://www.accurateminiatures.com/ATE3400.HTM (http://www.accurateminiatures.com/ATE3400.HTM)
It's a P-51 model kit by a highly respected (and well known for their research) model company.
Pyro, what do you have on the USAAF P-51's?
-Smut
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XO, The squealing Pigs
http://www.flyingpigs.com (http://www.flyingpigs.com)
"Oink! Oink! To War!"
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OK We'll have to arm wrestle then. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I musta been asleep during that discussion. I'm with you Smut. While the British did end up with 93 of the 150 P-51s, the U.S. did use them (now known as the F-6A) in the armed reconnaissance role with the 111th and 164th Observation Squadrons of the 68th Observation Group.
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/pyro/p51_1.gif)
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/pyro/p51_3.gif)
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/pyro/p51_2.gif)
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
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Pyro, WTG! Can we expect this plane in 1.05? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Scary, VERY scary (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
I get goose bumps just thinking of flying this baby!
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
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Thanks Pyro.
I figured you'd have some pictures. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
My good Mustang references must be at the very bottom of a large pile on my workbench. I recently completed a 1/48 USAAF A-36, also in MTO markings.
-Smut
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XO, The squealing Pigs
http://www.flyingpigs.com (http://www.flyingpigs.com)
"Oink! Oink! To War!"
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If that Stang rears it ugly head here, please model A 190A -> D conversion kit thats selectable in the A/C hanegr... so i too can have a field modified 4 cannon Dora (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
CrewChief: Silo, will you be taking the radial or the inline?
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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-=Silo=-
AVG "Flying Tigers"
**WoOF!**
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Remember that is a MkI Mustang. Its got an Allison engine. The Mustang didn't shine till she got her Merlin.
Sisu
-Karnak
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Originally posted by Karnak:
Remember that is a MkI Mustang. Its got an Allison engine. The Mustang didn't shine till she got her Merlin.
Sisu
-Karnak
I have read differently. It shone pretty bright down low...
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Pongo is right. The speed performance of Mustang I is about the same as Fw 190 up to 15k or so. Climb is inferior. But the roll performance of early Mustangs was outstanding, so much so that it was reduced for safety purposes. And this plane is about 2,000 lb lighter than a P-51D, but it has the same wing area. So turn performance is not far from Spit. IX territory.
If this plane was modeled here, it would be a real pain in the bellybutton to fight. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 07-28-2000).]
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It would probably end up in Polish Sqn markings too... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Funked..
Get quicker on the draw so I can agree with you for awhile....
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Naaa only one Polish Sqn. operated Mustang I and Ia, and the planes were well-used by that point.
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Originally posted by funked:
Naaa only one Polish Sqn. operated Mustang I and Ia, and the planes were well-used by that point.
Funked - good thing that ovmech doesn't read this board (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
315 squadron used Mk. Ia mustangs with great success. They attacked 4 times superior force of Fw190s ( 60 of them ) and shot down 15 190s for loss of 1 plane.
I believe they establised RAF record for squadron kills in one mission that time.
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Bartlomiej Rajewski
aka. Wing Commander fd-ski
Northolt Wing
1st Polish Fighter Wing
303 (Polish) Squadron "Kosciuszko" RAF
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
315 (Polish) Squadron "City of Deblin" RAF
Turning 109s and 190s into scrap metal since 1998
Northolt Wing Headquarters (http://www.raf303.org/northolt/)
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Those were Mustang Mk. III's boss.
AFAIK 309 Sqn. was the only PAF unit to operate Mustang I.
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the 51 mkIII was the plane i asked for in aw3 for so long but never got to see it.
some day there will be a 51 mkIII here in aces hi i just know it. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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(http://http:\\www.raf303.org/308/pkg.jpg)