Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: BaldEagl on July 14, 2009, 12:40:19 AM
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We need some radar equipped aircraft. There were several deployed during the war. The point in having them in-game would be to fly in areas where the radar is down or there is no local radar providing a more limited radar capability than the ground radar. I could see them used by both squads and missions and I'm sure they'd be a preferred target of many.
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Airborne radar in WWII was very directional and very limited in range.
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The point in having them in-game would be to fly in areas where the radar is down or there is no local radar providing a more limited radar capability than the ground radar.
So you're saying they will act like some sort of AWACS, providing radar cover for other aircraft?
I doubt this was done IRL, I believe most radar equiped aircraft had it for their own use.
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So you're saying they will act like some sort of AWACS, providing radar cover for other aircraft?
I doubt this was done IRL, I believe most radar equiped aircraft had it for their own use.
It was certainly not done as WWII airborne radar was nothing like AWACS.
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I've read that ASW aircraft near the end of the war, had a surface search radar that could find Uboat snorkles at considerable distances.. That was the last straw for the subs, the battle of the Atlantic was finally over..
If it could find a Uboat snorkel, I'll bet it could find a CV pretty easy, LOL!!!! (sp.? snorkel or snorkle)
But, never heard of an "AWACS style" airborne early warning radar used during the war.. Although tech for radar emission tracking DID exist at the time... So, I'm sure that somebody at the Naval Warfare College was
already thinking about tracking ships by their radar emissions... Pretty much the same as RDF, (radio direction finding)
RC
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You can find a lot of photos of Japanese aircraft with ASW radar as well. I don't know how good theirs was though.
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I think most of the WWII stuff was a fairly narrow beam. Usefull for finding a large stream of bombers at night but not a whole lot more than that. Not that I would mind if they modeled it, but you should have to have a "radar operator" attached to your plane in order for it to work. And it should only show up on your map, not everyones.
Much easier to use your eyes and a bit of teamwork/communication IMO.
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I was thinking that even if it was only useful for the plane it was mounted in that a more lmited radar capability being displayed in-game would simulate that plane transmitting it's findings via radio to friendlies.
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Sounds to me like you're asking for a more quake-style instant-gratification shoot-em-up game just so you can get more quick kills. Might as well fly the DA and never leave - every plane in there has ultra high-resolution radar.
To me, the kill tastes that much sweeter after I had to actually find the enemy in the sector where radar is down. You just use your noggin to guess his ingress/egress route and go from there. Even in EW, where the numbers are low, I wouldn't want extra radar. In LW, the numbers are so much higher that you can't swing a dead cat without bumping into someone - why do you need to make it easier to find them?
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Not really no it wasn't, but Avro did a large number of tests in the early 40's with ASV (correct term) systems that we could look on now as the birth of AWAC aircraft.
It was certainly not done as WWII airborne radar was nothing like AWACS.
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I found this article on (mostly) WWII American aircraft radar. It seems as though it was more effective than I imagined.
http://www.history.navy.mil/library/online/radar.htm
Even though most of the applications are for detecting ground or sea targets (but there is some application for detecting aircraft), the implementation of this would be valuable particularily if weather fronts and/or night were re-introduced to the game.
Here's a couple of examples, this one air to air:
DESCRIPTION: Airborne interception set for single-seated nightfighters.
USES: Used to detect and intercept enemy aircraft in fleet operations and in attacks against fixed bases. Designed to work in connection with SM or any GCI set, and has provisions for operating with AN/CPN-6 racon, and for IFF identification connections. Provides range, bearing and relative elevation data, and b, modified H or G indications, all appearing on a single scope.
PERFORMANCE: Detects plane at maximum reliable range of 3 miles and tracks target to 360 ft. Range accuracy is ± 10% on racon, ± 5% in tracking, and ± 25 yds. in gun-laying. Covers ± 60° forward in bearing and elevation. Bearing accuracy is ± 3° on racon, ± 1/2° in gun-laying. Elevation accuracy is ± 3°.
TRANSPORTABILITY: Packaging for shipment is not yet standardized, but total package weight should not exceed 350 lbs.
INSTALLATION: Installed in F4U-2 and F6F-3. In F4U-2, installation weighs 310 lbs., requires removal of two machine guns, and reduces plane's top speed by 2 mph. Installation has no effect on armament or speed of F6F-3.
PERSONNEL: Set is operated by pilot. One maintenance man per set is required.
POWER: Total primary power required: (a) form combination AC-DC primary generator (NEA-3 or NEA-5) -- 30 amps., 27.5 V, DC and 1050 watts, 115 V, 400-2400 cycles AC; or (b) from primary DC generator, requiring use of motor-alternator (800-1-B) -- 91 amps., 27.5 V DC.
And this one air to ground:
DESCRIPTION: Airborne long-wave search set for patrol bombers. Range and left-right indication are provided on an ASV scope. IFF identification signals are displayed directly on the scope. These sets are no longer in production.
USES: For locating and homing on craft or coastal targets, and for navigating. Sets work with SCR-621 or YH racon.
PERFORMANCE: Reliable maximum ranges: surfaced submarines (broadside), 6 miles; 4,000-8,000 ton ship, 25 miles; well-defined coastline, 60 miles. Minimum range is 350 yds. Range accuracy, ± 10%. Sets cover forward 150° when searching, 40° when homing on a target. Bearing accuracy in homing is ± 2° to ± 5°.
TRANSPORTABILITY: Sets are packed in 7 units for shipment, weighing a total of 300 lbs. Largest package is 16" x 21" x 24" and weighs 78 lbs.
INSTALLATION: SCR-521's are installed in B-17, B-24, B-25 and B-34 planes. ASVC and ASE are installed in B-17, B-24, PBY5, PBY5A, and PBN. The external antennas reduce plane's top speed by about 5 to 7 knots, and the forward nose antenna interferes with the firing of the forward flexible guns. (The addition of a polyplexer in future installations will eliminate the nose antenna).
PERSONNEL: Army requires one operator and one maintenance man per set. Navy requires one operator per set and 4 maintenance men per squadron.
POWER: Total primary power required: (a) from combined AC-DC generator -- 2.6 amps., 27.5 v. DC and 500 watts, 115 v., 800-2400 cycles AC; or (b) from primary DC generator, requiring use of motor-alternator -- 39 amps., 27.5 v. DC.
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I would enjoy such a feature if
a. This radar can only detect aircraft.
b. You have to operate the radar manually.
c. Results are not displayed on your or other player's clipboard map, only on the radar's display screen.
Of course, for this feature to be useful and fun icons would have to be disabled, night-time would have to make a come-back, and we would need some night-fighters such as the Beaufighter.
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1 mile = 1760 yards.
So, we're talking icon range here. Will icons be on at night? What advantage would a radar equipped aircraft give you over a big red icon?
wrongway
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I think most of the WWII stuff was a fairly narrow beam. Usefull for finding a large stream of bombers at night but not a whole lot more than that. Not that I would mind if they modeled it, but you should have to have a "radar operator" attached to your plane in order for it to work. And it should only show up on your map, not everyones.
Much easier to use your eyes and a bit of teamwork/communication IMO.
No, airborne radar was not useful for finding bomber streams. It was useful for finding individual targets once vectored onto the bomber stream by more powerful ground radar or for finding contacts in the bomber stream that ought not be there. The range was far too short to use it as a primary target aquisition tool.
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An idea like this has been brought up before, and I kinda liked it. It gave a reason for scout planes...
Have instead of guns, have a limited amount of radar time that it could offer up a small radar area. Could be helpful, but again, I say LIMITED amount of time. ;)
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A great excuse to introduce the F6F-5N. :D
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1 mile = 1760 yards.
So, we're talking icon range here. Will icons be on at night? What advantage would a radar equipped aircraft give you over a big red icon?
wrongway
Radar is not an advantage. However, to make use of it icons would have to be disabled during night-time encouraging users to use the radar to find their target.
Of course if it were ever to happen it would get boring fast. I hope you get the idea, though. If airborne-radar were ever to arrive. Night-time would have to make a comeback with icons being disabled during the dark-hours.
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P-61 Blackwidow.
(http://www.sinoam.com/photo%20gallery%20pic/14th%20air%20force/aforce8_big.jpg)
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P-61 Blackwidow.
(http://www.sinoam.com/photo%20gallery%20pic/14th%20air%20force/aforce8_big.jpg)
And? What is special about it?
This thread is a request to turn radar equipped aircraft into AWACS units as a gameplay mechanism and none of the suggestions have anything to do with simulating WWII airborne radar.
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Radar is not an advantage. However, to make use of it icons would have to be disabled during night-time encouraging users to use the radar to find their target.
Of course if it were ever to happen it would get boring fast. I hope you get the idea, though. If airborne-radar were ever to arrive. Night-time would have to make a comeback with icons being disabled during the dark-hours.
How do you tell a friendly Spitfire from an enemy Spitfire at night? Friendly icons only?
But I kind of like the crap shoot of no icons.
To shoot or not to shoot?
wrongway
(no night please)
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IFF transponders were used for that, if the pilot didn't take it out to save weight and if it worked.
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How do you tell a friendly Spitfire from an enemy Spitfire at night? Friendly icons only?
But I kind of like the crap shoot of no icons.
To shoot or not to shoot?
wrongway
(no night please)
If no icons there should be no kill-shooter.
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If no icons there should be no kill-shooter.
No icons and killshooter. :devil
Like I said, do you shoot or not?
Otherwise you just shoot at everything with no penalty.
wrongway
edit: Heh. Spell Check wants to replace kill-shooter with a naughty word. :rolleyes:
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well i know for a fact the 110 had radar. along with the 10 seris after it { 210, 410 and 410 } not all had it, the special night fighter, also the me 262 had it, thats what i know for the germans, anyone else know what other german planes were equipped, since most people have been looking just on the american side
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well i know for a fact the 110 had radar. along with the 10 seris after it { 210, 410 and 410 } not all had it, the special night fighter, also the me 262 had it, thats what i know for the germans, anyone else know what other german planes were equipped, since most people have been looking just on the american side
The version of the Bf110G we have in AH did not have radar.
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The version of the Bf110G we have in AH did not have radar.
then we need a new one :D
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I was thinking that even if it was only useful for the plane it was mounted in that a more lmited radar capability being displayed in-game would simulate that plane transmitting it's findings via radio to friendlies.
I have a solution for the complaints I could think of...would be delayed about...what do you guys think? 30 secs or do you want a minute or a minute and a half?...well anyway, it would be delayed, tell only from which direction bogies are inbound, and give them an eta, using the average speed if multiple planes are coming at you. It would be like this: SYSTEM: BOGIES INBOUND FROM SW. ETA 3 MIN.
That would solve the problem of each plane not having a radar system
I would cast my vote for a delay of 30secs at most. That way if enemies change course just outside of a realistic viz range (one where you won't mistake an enemy dot for a spot on your computer screen) it won't take the entire time to send an update. And it would only announce it to friendlies within the range of VOX (meaning it is close enough to talk to with the VOX channel).
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not exactly the same but every aircraft in the game has radar, just pull up your clipboard!
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not exactly the same but every aircraft in the game has radar, just pull up your clipboard!
does it work even when dar on bases and where ever else they are positioned is down or when you are outside of there range?
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does it work even when dar on bases and where ever else they are positioned is down or when you are outside of there range?
no,,,, but then again without land based dar, your chances of finding the enemy in the dark, with radar, are pretty much NEEDLE in HAYSTAK, without guidance from land based radar to get you close!
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no,,,, but then again without land based dar, your chances of finding the enemy in the dark, with radar, are pretty much NEEDLE in HAYSTAK, without guidance from land based radar to get you close!
I think it would mostly be a bomber escort thing. Meaning a dar equiped plane or planes fly with a formation of several bomber formations along with escorts intended to do nothing but run interference for bombers. Or if dar on planes only scans area where it is pointed the a fighter would fly in a circle around the bomber formation. Not really intended to help find targets. And who said anything about in the dark?
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I think any vehical that is within the 6K range should show up on the map. Its not realistic I know but will help with the few whom play and don't have a microhone(AKA idiots who spent 500 dollars on a PC with ni mic rather than 510 dollars without one)
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Not really intended to help find targets. And who said anything about in the dark?
The British H2S Radar set was developed for and used on various British bombers for navigation and locating targets in nighttime. Cities would show up on the scope as patches of bright light. Basically, intended to help find targets. In the dark. :lol
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Didn't they have mossies fly ahead and drop flares to mark targets as well?
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Different system. But yeah. Somebody brought a radar with them.
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Nice. But I can see how this would be usefull as an escort fighter. Just stick one in with a group of buffs, and a couple escort fighters.