Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Rondar on July 17, 2009, 10:22:15 PM
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I was making a small patio using irregular shaped cement pavers. I thought about getting some quikrete to fill in the gaps between the pavers. Wife wants concrete instead of sand so no weeds grow. So is there a colorant that might be powdered that I could just mix in a few bags of 80 pound quikrete and then just sweep it in the cracks to fill it? Then I thought about just sprinkling the patio with a hose so the cement gets wet and sets up and Voila... colored grout. Will this work?
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May want to go to DIY site.
However, did you put down a barrier before laying the patio pavers?
If it were me, and I'm know expert, I would use sand. The simple reason that if pavers crack you simply replace. Further, that cement will crack.
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There is about 12-15" of sand and gravel that I put underneath the pavers. I packed and watered it and packed it and screeded it off, then put pavers on it. Hooooo boooy wish I had thought of putting down some of that black weed barrier stuff. You think the cement in between the pavers will crack regardless of what is underneath? I dont know.. just asking :)
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I believe the quickrete will crack as getback stated and will wash out when you try to sprinkle it with water. concrete needs to be thoroughly mixed before it is installed so to speak. I would also use sand, as the pavers will most certainly shift to some degree and the sand will allow for that.
Their are some dry mix mortars but not really recommended for that type of application
68valu
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You can buy concrete colorant in Home depot , i saw it coming in black, red and green.
It should work.
But, on you place i would buy regular tile grout, gray one comes in 60 lbs bags and is cheap.
Its more resistant to cracking then quickrete, its design to fill tight spaces. And you can add colorant to it as well if needed .
btw, what kind of quickrete you like to use for that?
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The expansion and contraction of concrete due both to moisture and temperature will make it crack between the pavers. Our neighbor tried to pull that one...wasn't pretty.
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The sand base for the pavers is the way to go. Plastic sheeting under the sand will take care of the weed problem. :salute
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Ok...
First, if you put anything in between the pavers, you want to use Type-S mortar, and not quickcrete. That being said, putting mortar in the paver joints pretty much gets rid of any advantage the pavers provide compared to a concrete patio in the first place. Now, had you wanted to mortar in the entire patio, you should have started laying the pavers with mortar to begin with. It sounds as though you have good subgrade due to your import and compaction of the gravel, so you could have laid the pavers in a mortar bed. Now though, its too late for a number of reasons.
First, the pavers will move independently due to temperature changes. Its actually one of the advantages of pavers, especially in cold climates with significant freeze/thaw cycles. Whereas concrete will have to resist cracking during these environmental changes, pavers (laid traditionally with sanded joints) will be able to move around as the freeze/thaw cycles come and go. If you fix them in place with mortar joints, they won't be able to do that any more, and when they need to move, they'll crack the mortar joints. Second, any mortar joint you create now will be significantly weaker than it could have been, had you laid the pavers in a mortar bed to begin with. The spacers of the pavers automatically create the proper gapping for sanded joints. If you laid the pavers tightly using those spacers, there will not be enough room to place mortar in those joints. Even if you did gap the pavers 1/4" or so, putting the mortar in from above does not allow you to place the mortar in a manner that will not create gaps, voids, and pockets in the mortar joints. That's why masons "butter" all the sides of a masonry block/brick/etc. when they lay masonry. Ultimately, the mortar joints will fail due to both the movement, and the weakened joints resulting from those voids/gaps/etc.
My advice: Buy a small spray bottle of Round-Up, sand the joints in between the pavers, and merely kill any weeds that start to grow in the cracks.
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I was making a small patio using irregular shaped cement pavers. I thought about getting some quikrete to fill in the gaps between the pavers. Wife wants concrete instead of sand so no weeds grow. So is there a colorant that might be powdered that I could just mix in a few bags of 80 pound quikrete and then just sweep it in the cracks to fill it? Then I thought about just sprinkling the patio with a hose so the cement gets wet and sets up and Voila... colored grout. Will this work?
Yes you can buy a concrete dye and mix it. experiment with ratios for color balance. You could find it at H-depot in their building supply section. If you fill joints up with dry mix, and wet them down it your volume will be reduced and irregular joint fill might occur. Water to mix ratio does have an effect on concrete strength. Wet grout forced into joints provides a better mechanical bond to surface edges of paver's. For the grout a high strength mortar mix grade will do even better. It would maintain a clean surface if you sealed concrete paver's before grouting, and again complete patio after grout cured and dried out for several days. Re-grout as areas eventually crack.
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Thanks guys. Sounds like I had better put sand in those cracks. I didnt know the cement in the cracks were kinda such a no no, so thats why I was asking those of you who know.
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I really think that Round-Up will keep Momma happy and the sand will allow your patio to stay looking sharp!
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May want to go to DIY site.
However, did you put down a barrier before laying the patio pavers?
If it were me, and I'm know expert, I would use sand. The simple reason that if pavers crack you simply replace. Further, that cement will crack.
Edit: Error "No" not Know"
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I really think that Round-Up will keep Momma happy and the sand will allow your patio to stay looking sharp!
:lol That's what I was thinking.
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Sand - you will regret concrete choice
I put in a 25 x 20 foot patio with pavers 10 years ago and it is still in perfect shape, 6 inch base gravel tamped down, 4 inch sand tamped down. Hasn't shifted yet, and I sweep in new sand every couple of years. Use a weed killer like roundup takes care of any weeds, and I water seal every couple years also.
If you lightly water the patio after you sweep in the new sand, it will be fine for the missus.
NwBie
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My advice: Buy a small spray bottle of Round-Up, sand the joints in between the pavers, and merely kill any weeds that start to grow in the cracks.
QFT and best advise yet.
Forget the weed barrier if you put sand down on top of it you will still get weeds eventually anyway as the barrier only prevents weeds from growing p and through the barrier from underneath and not from sprouting in the sand on top.
Easiest and best way to handle it IMO is to get roundup or a roundup type product and simply and carefully on a relatively windless day mist the paved area with the defoliant of your choice a couple times a summer.
Do it on a windy day and within a few days you will see why it was a bad idea.
I learned this lesson the hard way some years ago when I accidentally wiped out a nice 6'X10' swath of my next door neighbors lawn. :O
Fortuately for me. He really didnt care as most of his "Lawn" in that area was weeds and it provided him with the excuse he was looking for to reseed.
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Round up will kill what is currently growing. Before you do that get a good anti germination spray, weed preventer. That will prevent new seeds from sprouting. Then spray with round up.
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I have pavers around my porch and eventually my walkway. I would love to do my whole driveway in pavers. I wonder how they would hold up against a snowplow?
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PM sent because I didn't want to read the whole thread but look at this product if you can find it locally.
http://www.quikrete.com/ProductLines/PowerLocJointingSandPro.asp
Less work than mortar or concrete/portland cement and ABSOLUTELY 100% less work than those as well. Plus it hardens up and holds just like concrete would. We used this on our patio to lock it in place and it has been great. Now I have to finish the drainage work and put in new sod and I am 100% ready for installing the weather proofed box for an outdoor LCD to watch college football on in the cool fall evenings here.
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http://www.quikrete.com/ProductLines/PowerLocJointingSandPro.asp
If you live in a cold climate with a lot of freeze/thaw cycles, I'd recommend you not use this product. Just regular sand will work... The key to pavers working properly is their ability to move with weather changes. If you lock them in place with some sort of mortar/cement product, that product will eventually crack.
@ Sluggish: As long as the snow plow isn't crazy about dropping the blade and digging hard, snow plow will be ok on the pavers. We had a large project in Reno that was just at the base of the Sierras (around 6500') and got a couple of feet of snow several times a winter. Many of those folks used a snow plow to have their driveways cleared (they all came standard with paver driveways). A snow blower works best of all. One key would be to make sure you start the snow removal before it has time to melt and freeze at the surface.