Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: VISCONTI on July 21, 2000, 10:18:00 AM
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Hi guys, finally i have found that gun camera movie of a c202, look at the 12.7mm.
I dont know if that movie is protected by copyright (look at "Luce" in the corner),
if i'm violating rules i will delete that movie asap.
here the link:
http://angelfire.lycos.com/nt/mio/c202breda.zip (http://angelfire.lycos.com/nt/mio/c202breda.zip)
PS: is 1.8MB now
[This message has been edited by VISCONTI (edited 07-21-2000).]
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After 3h of hard work i think u can download that movie (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by VISCONTI (edited 07-21-2000).]
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?
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It doesn't work. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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Now the link works. Was it a P40? Anyway the 2x12,7mm made a good job.
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I thought it was a Hurricane. Anyone know for sure? 1 thing is sure tho, was a bad day for its pilot
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Looked like a Hurricane to me too, but its difficult, given the short time on target and the lack of any planform or side view
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
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I'll guess P-40 too.
ra
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Yup P-40 you can tell by the landing gear buldges under the wings.
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Do you have anymore of those VISCONTI?
[This message has been edited by Nath-BDP (edited 07-24-2000).]
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dunno if is a p40 or an hurricane but what do u think about the 12.7mm????
The one we have here in AH hare the same?
I think that these are explosive ammo but here in AH the 12.7 are unusefull, at short distance i can fire and hit target for 2 sec and nothing.
I think, and i hope that our 12.7mm will be remodelled.
In Libia scenario our big problem was the complete inefficacity of the ammo in our 202, i remember i have fired and hit in the cockpit of a spit from 100y and that plane survived whit no damage, i have fired and hit for 2 sec. on another spit from 250y (6 position) and nothing.
Pls give your opinion thx.
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it's a mortar round (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Originally posted by VISCONTI:
dunno if is a p40 or an hurricane but what do u think about the 12.7mm????
The one we have here in AH hare the same?
I think that these are explosive ammo but here in AH the 12.7 are unusefull, at short distance i can fire and hit target for 2 sec and nothing.
I must agree VISCONTI, i flew the 202 quite a bit during the 5th tour and i noticed it took 3 seconds of firing (with 12.7s and 7.7s) to down a spit from 100yrds and i only blew its Horisontal stab off. Now against a p-38 i needed a full 7 seconds of firing 200 (with 12.7s and 7.7s) before anything decided to come off and then it was only the elevator. I agree the 12.7s on the 202 is quite useless.
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You guys are ON CRACK!?!
currently the guns on the .202 and .205 are the most potent MG in AH just behind the 13mm in the 109&190. (has anyone tried the yak 12.7 yet?). The lethality tests on these guns indicate a VERY noticable larger lethalness.
And PUHLEASE guys... don't wave around retarded figures like "2 seconds of fire" or "7 seconds of hit"... Those guns take less than 5-10 hits to make a kill with- a good burst lasts 1-2 seconds at most and if in anywhich way centered will rip a plane in half. 2 whole seconds of dead on target hits means your target probably soaked up 20-30 bullets... I dare ya to give me a film with 20-30 hits of the 12.7mm MG on the .202 or .205 that the target lived through....
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Originally posted by Sorrow[S=A]:
I dare ya to give me a film with 20-30 hits of the 12.7mm MG on the .202 or .205 that the target lived through....
Since i wont be playing for a few more weeks more, VISCONTI do you mind showing this guy a AH video of it? I have seen planes take alot more then 20-30 pings (except 109s)
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hey Torquila hope you come back soon bro......thru the frontdoor see you soon (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I think its a P40. The Hurry had almost no dihedral (sp?) (angle) on his wings.
Anyway, IMHO ALL 12,7mm, 13mm and 0.5 inches heavy MG are undermodeled in AH (and WB). Probably, if you model correctly all the guns, 20mm cannon armed a/c would make the game unplayable.
Regards,
GATT
[This message has been edited by gatt (edited 07-25-2000).]
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Anyway, IMHO ALL 12,7mm, 13mm and 0.5 inches heavy MG are undermodeled in AH (and WB). Probably, if you model correctly all the guns, 20mm cannons cannon armed a/c would make the game unplayable.
I think you are right on target Gatt. We don't call this game "CannonBirds" for no reason.
Seriously, the lethality was tuned around the x4 cannon aircraft, and the people who whined about it. So that leaves the people that like to fly aircraft with primarily MG's out in the cold (even though it is better than it use to be).
So you Italian pilots don't feel alone. I fly P-51's and Yak's, so I can feel your pain.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
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Hi Vermillion,
few days ago Ariete managed to talk with an italian WWII Macchi armourer. He confirmed that S.I.T. ammo did contain explosive cartridges.
Moreover we are trying to contact Nicola Malizia, co-author with B.Cull and some others of very interesting books (the Malta series and the last "Spitfires over Sicily").
He was in the Regia Areonautica during WWII and he probably knows how Macchis's 12,7mm belts were built up.
I'll let you know .... yeahhh I'll let you all know (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Very nice, clear film. Any more??? !!!
From watching many different guncams I find that Torquilas statement... "it took 3 seconds of firing (with 12.7s and 7.7s) to down a spit from 100yrds and I only blew its Horisontal stab off." to be pretty much what it should take in real life to down and aircraft. Rarely in all the guncams I've watched did the aircraft come apart from a short burts and more times than not those that did had a belly tank or were Japanese aircraft.
Sure. Some 109's, 190's, 51's , 47's or Spits did too but that was not typical - from what I've seen again.
-Westy
[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 07-25-2000).]
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link not working for me???
would REALLY like to see it!
-mas
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Mason,
double click on the link above and you'll get a web page with the following:
This file is hosted by Angelfire.
Please click on
/nt/mio/c202breda.zip
to download this file.
Older Browsers: Hold the SHIFT key and click the above link
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VISCONTI,
you owe me a BIG beer for all this assistance! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Gatt, I believe and support your assertion that the Italians had some 12.7mm rounds with explosive charges. The Japanese did too.
Realistically, the difference in damage would not be too much, in the game IMO.
FYI alot of the .50's that the US and the British used were incendiary rounds, that would have served much the same purpose, in the actual war. To ignite enemy aircraft combustibles. Fuel, oil, oxygen, etc.
I once got too visit a military munitions plant, and the plant engineer showed me alot of different types of ammunition, and we discussed what they did and why.
Basically a 20mm cannon round is much larger that a 12.7mm (.50 cal) MG round, and therefore can carry a significant payload of explosives, plus a fusing device.
A 12.7mm round can only carry a miniscule amount of explosive, and to be honest I can't remember how they even fused them, but I do remember that I was shown a cutaway version of one of these shell types.
So what effective would a 12.7mm explosive shell have in the game? Well, I'm not exactly sure to be honest. But dont' expect them to suddenly have the effect of a 20mm cannon.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
[This message has been edited by Vermillion (edited 07-25-2000).]
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Originally posted by gatt:
I think its a P40. The Hurry had almost no dihedral (sp?) (angle) on his wings.
Anyway, IMHO ALL 12,7mm, 13mm and 0.5 inches heavy MG are undermodeled in AH (and WB). Probably, if you model correctly all the guns, 20mm cannon armed a/c would make the game unplayable.
Regards,
GATT
[This message has been edited by gatt (edited 07-25-2000).]
.50 cal is undermodeled? just yesterday I attacked a B17 in my 190 from high 12, the only guns he could bear on me was 2 dorsal .50 cals and i got him but it also took my wing off... later on he said 'i only hit you a few times'.
[This message has been edited by Nath-BDP (edited 07-25-2000).]
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CC Verm,
I agree with you. But knowing that our 12,7mm belts contain explosive shells would add more realism to the sim (and, who knows, even some graphic effects and/or a different lethality (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)). Same thing for the japanese cartridge (but I dunno anything about it)
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Nath,
read well this board. You'll discover that OTTO's 12,7mm are really overmodeled. I think they have more range, lethality and a bigger hit-bubble.
OTTO is able to hit from 1,200yds and cut one or both your wings.
If I understand well, HTC did it to give higher chances to buffs to get back home.
But lets not go off-topic (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
[This message has been edited by gatt (edited 07-25-2000).]
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Hehehe Gatt maybe one day who know (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Ok i'm working on other gun camera film, i will post here when i have finished the capture whit my sloow PC (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) .
I try to contact an armourer that used the Breda 12.7 and if i found more data i will post here.
To be continued stay tuned (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Hey Visconti
I flew the Libya scenaria too in 202..and i scored 3 kills.
Today we had a confrontation ( your 202 vs my spit 9 ) and you pinged my spit a few times but no damage on my side.
Could connection be a problem ?
I have cable.
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I killed some spits in libya too, the 12.7 can kill in AH but....
I have tested c202 today in arena.
First engagement was against your spit:
I get some hit on your plane from 450-500y and IMHO is too far for the 12.7 to doo serious damage, was surprised to see no damage at all (i see flash on the cockpit too).
Next soties i meet again spits and killed one whit a 3sec direct hit from 200-250y.
Against P38 i have fired on his whing for more than 5sec. and finally killed (from 150-200y).
Others kills where manouver kill.
Connection is "always" ok for me in c205 i can kill fiters whit <30 20mm in a 1sec. shot.
PS: i was in the only 12.7mm configuration during test whit conv. at 375 (the same i use in c205).
[This message has been edited by VISCONTI (edited 07-25-2000).]
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Gatt,
I also strongly belive the OTTO's are overmodelled (tonight I lose my wings while I was at 1,7K from a B17 and I was going away after the first attack). I do not agree with the reasons of this overmodelling: in this game fiters must be escorted from bombers, and not viceversa like in the reality. I think it'd be a big fun to attack formations of bombers escorted by fiters....but I've never seen (but in scenarios) bombers with escort in this game.
Their gunnery is so powerfull that they need not escort...bah!
Bye
Lucchini