Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: eagl on July 19, 2009, 01:46:35 PM
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F-15E down in Afghanistan, crew didn't make it.
http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123159368
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Wow, how many F-15s have been lost in action since being active?
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Wow, how many F-15s have been lost in action since being active?
one?
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I read about this the other day when it happened. I wonder what happened that caused the two of them to not be able to punch out unless they were flying really low NOE and smacked a hill/mountain over there. I watched an F4 Phantom do that when I was 18 or so down around my parents house. That was a crappy thing to see when the guy was trying to pull the nose up with no wings and all.
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RIP
:salute
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:salute RIP Capt. Thomas J. Gramith & Capt. Mark R. McDowell.
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:( :salute
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:salute
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Reach out and touch the face of God.
RIP :salute
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:salute
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A vigil for Capt. Thomas J. Gramith started a couple hours ago just down the hill from where I'm working right now. He was from Eagan Minnesota. Wife and twin daughters survive him.
:salute
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:salute
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Wow, how many F-15s have been lost in action since being active?
A dozen or so F-15s of various types "in action" or in combat support, if I recall correctly. There are a half-dozen or so combat losses of F-15Es. Another bunch of non-combat losses.
If I recall correctly, this is the second GWOT F-15E aircraft and crew loss, neither from enemy fire. F-15Es fly at night and in bad weather a lot, so that drives up the non-hostile-fire loss rate. It's a hazardous environment, but that's where our mission is, doing stuff that the single-seat fighters and UAVs can't do.
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Hate to hear about that <S> Sir RIP. I thought they were retireing all F-15s.
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I'll put my money on a case of CFIT due to weather and visibility (night). Depth perception gets tough on goggles down low. Could have been target fixation if he was strafing or firing other direct fire weapons, although I doubt they were employing those types of weapons/tactics with a Strike Eagle.
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Rumors of all F-15s retiring are unrealistic. We're not buying enough replacement F-22s for the F-15Cs, and there isn't a replacement for the F-15E anywhere in the procurement planning. The F-15E may be our last real strike fighter, ever. Neither the F-22 or JSF can come close to the range, endurance, payload, and dual-crew flexibility of the F-15E. They'll keep them flying as long as possible.
Boeing is building up an F-15E variant with a dramatically reduced radar cross section, and that might end up being our next strike fighter. If they can manage the RCS well enough, it might get past the pentagon mandate to buy no "non-stealth" combat aerial vehicles and be a very affordable and capable alternative to more F-22s or a strike variant of the F-22. It's a long-shot though, and it might merely end up as an export variant for countries that share my low opinion of the JSF but can't buy the F-22.
As for the F-15Cs, they'll keep flying them until the wings literally fall off because we can't meet even our peacetime defense requirements with the F-22, let alone go abroad and do anything requiring air superiority. The JSF is supposedly going to replace the last couple hundred F-15Cs, but that'll go over about as well as replacing the F-15C with the F-16 did. The JSF is nothing but a fwd-aspect-stealthy viper with better radar/avionics, not an air supremacy fighter. Hell, it can only carry a couple AMRAAMS... what a piece of crap IMHO.
But it's "joint", and in our current socio-political-military environment that means much more than actual capability. That's why I'm flying the T-6 built to US Navy specs (and that they later demanded get upgraded after USAF bought the first several hundred) instead of a real T-37 replacement built to USAF spec.
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I'll put my money on a case of CFIT due to weather and visibility (night). Depth perception gets tough on goggles down low. Could have been target fixation if he was strafing or firing other direct fire weapons, although I doubt they were employing those types of weapons/tactics with a Strike Eagle.
We've been strafing in Afghanistan and Iraq with the F-15E since Roberts Ridge went down, and the first fighter on scene was an F-15E flown by a former A-10 pilot. Sometimes the only appropriate weapon/tactic is to get down low and lay down some 20mm goodness.
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:salute
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We've been strafing in Afghanistan and Iraq with the F-15E since Roberts Ridge went down, and the first fighter on scene was an F-15E flown by a former A-10 pilot. Sometimes the only appropriate weapon/tactic is to get down low and lay down some 20mm goodness.
Didn't mean they couldn't or wouldn't do it, just that strafing isn't a typical means of employment of the F-15E.
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Didn't mean they couldn't or wouldn't do it, just that strafing isn't a typical means of employment of the F-15E.
It wasn't until Roberts Ridge. After that, strafing became something we did a lot more until it's essentially no different than any other option we have. It's emphasized in training as the expected employment option when collateral damage or proximity to friendly troops is the highest concern.
I spent more time training for strafe in the last 8 months of my F-15E flying than I did in the first 4 years I flew it. It's just one more employment option now. Yea, putting that expensive of a plane with a gun that is canted up for air to air employment down in the weeds for strafe isn't ideal, but it's no less of an option than anything else we have and when friendlies are danger-close and need airpower, no F-15E crew is going to wait for an A-10 or viper to show up.
Any CAS qual F-15E pilot had better be proficient in strafe... At least we have a good gunsight for it. We have to open fire from longer range than the F-16 and A-10, but our A-G gunsight is great if you know how to set it up right.