Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Vermillion on July 25, 2000, 12:35:00 PM
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Pyro, For the Love of God, .... errr the Love of the Rodina, can we please get some alternative armament options for the Yak-9U?? I pledge you my first born child to labor at coding and art creation till his majority at age 18 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Seriously, would it be possible to get a couple of the Yak-9UT armament options included in AH, just like we already have the G10/R6 or the G6/R6 which are the equivalent German aircraft?
VVS aircraft have become an extinct species in the skies of AH. In my 2.5 hours of flying yesterday evening (Most of it in a Yak), I did not see a single La5fn, and I saw a grand total of 1 Yak-9U sortie other than myself. And he lasted a grand total of 30 seconds under a vulch. And this was in the “hotspots” in the arena.
The Yak-9U is an incredibly fun aircraft to fly except for the fact that it is extremely difficult (ie almost impossible) to get a non-surprise kill.
Sure, if you blind side a bandit you can get a kill. Hell, I got 4 just like that myself the other day (an extreme rarity to be sure). But if they see you, which they almost always do in AH. It takes a dead six very sustained burst to get a kill against a manuvering opponent with the Yak’s guns. And with the “my every defensive manuever is a Split S crowd” in AH, this invariably means a dead Yak driver, since we have to follow them all the way to the deck and put burst after burst into them, from our already minuscule ammo load. Leaving us vulnerable and dead ourselves.
I can understand your decision to not include the NS-37 37mm and NS-45 45mm cannons, due to their extreme anti-tank capabilities.
But how about including the +1 NS-23 23mm cannon + x2 B-20 20mm cannons option?
Or even the x3 B-20 20mm cannon option?
These options would actually be no more effective (less effective in most cases) than the
109G10 w/ x1 Mk108 30mm + x2 MG151 20mm’s + x2 MG151 13mm’s, or
109G10 w/ x3 MG151 20mm’s + x2 MG151 13mm’s
They’re quite comparable aircraft and quite comparable armament options, yet the Yak drivers suffer with a single 20mm and x2 12.7mm MG’s.
Please give us poor Yak drivers the ability to actually do decisive damage for a change. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) No one respects a Yak (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
It sure would be nice to see some diversity in the skies of AH, and with a legitimate historic armament option addition, I bet you would see a lot more VVS aircraft in the skies.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
[This message has been edited by Vermillion (edited 07-25-2000).]
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Humpf....Verm...
To load a 109 with gondolas is to be wanting to have the rollrate of a drunken dinosaur. Its roll inertia is bigger than in a slow P38 (go figure).
Also there were A LOT of 109s with R6 modifications...how many YAK9Us were completed with 3 20mm cannons?.
The MK108 issue is not worth the talking...that 30mm round fells so much that is useless beyond 150 yards...and it has 60 rounds only-
I dont say that the 3x20mm isnt a valid wanting, I say that asking for them in the grounds of "the 109 have this or that" is not a valid point.
IMO.
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Well Ram, at least you have the choice to add or not to add those gondolas, and those different armament options (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Cobra
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YAK no respect! I hate those things!
I do not enjoy engaging the C205 or the YAK!
I hate the YAK!
I can't fly it, or fly against it!
I see one, I go the other way! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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You have my vote on more guns in yak. I always enjoyed spit vs la5 and yes I enjoy spit vs yak9 and it is pity they are almost out of skies. I am sure more guns will get respect back to yak9. Also I vote for a la7, even if it will give us RAF pilots hard time. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
(http://www.warriormage.com/legion/graphix/legion_fariz.gif)
(http://www.warriormage.com/legion/graphix/trainers_logo.gif)
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Originally posted by Cobra:
Well Ram, at least you have the choice to add or not to add those gondolas, and those different armament options (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Cobra
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) yup Cobra, I agree that Yak9 lacks weapon options. What I mean is that to ask for more in the grounds of "the 109 has more options" isnt very fair (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
But of course if there were enough Yak9Us with 3 20mm cannons, I support HTC bringing it to AH (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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But if they see you, which they almost always do in AH. It takes a dead six very sustained burst to get a kill against a manuvering opponent with the Yak’s guns. And with the “my every defensive manuever is a Split S crowd” in AH, this invariably means a dead Yak driver, since we have to follow them all the way to the deck and put burst after burst into them, from our already minuscule ammo load. Leaving us vulnerable and dead ourselves.
Welcome to wonderful world of 109 pilots! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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jochen Jagdflieger JG 2 'Richthofen' Aces High
jochen Geschwaderkommodore (on leave) Jagdgeschwader 2 'Richthofen' (http://personal.inet.fi/cool/jan.nousiainen/JG2) Warbirds
Thanks for the Fw 190A-5 HTC!
Ladysmith wants you forthwith to come to her relief
Burn your briefs you leave for France tonight
Carefully cut the straps of the booby-traps and set the captives free
But don't shoot 'til you see her big blue eyes
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RAM, these numbers are from memory but I can get the exact ones for you when I get home today.
There were approximately 4,000 Yak-9U's made, and an additional 1,400 Yak-9UT's. I am not proposing a very small production run aircraft here (ie -1C). How many G10/R6's were there? I am not sure of G10 production, but I do know there were only about 700 K4's in combat total, similarly to the approximate 700 190D9's in combat. See my point? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Now how many of the -UT's had which main gun (20mm, 23mm, 37mm, 45mm) is something that will probably never be known. From my understanding (if anyone has more or better info, please speak up), the -UT, was setup so that the x2 B-20 20mm cannons replaced the nose mounted x2 UBK 12.7mm MG's (the B-20 was literally a upsized rechambered UBK MG, ie same size and only slightly higher weight). And the gun mount in the engine that fired thru the spinner hub was a generic mount that could take any of the different caliber cannons (20mm thru 45mm) depending on need or preference. FYI the Yak-9K had a very similar setup.
And RAM, the reason I compare the Yak-9U to the 109 is obvious. Its because its a similarly performing aircraft. And I was trying to point out that it would not unbalance the game. Not some kind of anti-luftwaffe rant that you immediately took it for, so chill out a little (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
You state that the Mk108 is useless? Well, I know of quite a few 109 pilots that fly with it, and put it to very good use. Just ask Aper, he killed me with a 109 armed with 30mm + x2 20mm's +MG's just the other day.
But lets compare the two guns. The Mk108 has a muzzle velocity of 505 m/sec and a rate of fire of 600 rpm, with a 312 g projectile. The NS-23 has a muzzle velocity of 690 m/sec and a rate of fire of 550 rpm, with a 200 g projectile. So the Russian gun shoots a little flatter, but slower as well, with a much smaller shell. Neither is a wonder weapon (the NS-37 or NS-45 is another story) that will challenge a pilot to get a hit. BUT at least you have that option.
And the whole issue that the 109 losses performance if you add different guns to it, well thats obvious (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) All aircraft in the game perform differently if you add more guns to them, and so will the Yak. Its an even playing field called physics (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
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Originally posted by Vermillion:
There were approximately 4,000 Yak-9U's made, and an additional 1,400 Yak-9UT's. I am not proposing a very small production run aircraft here (ie -1C)
Perfect (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I didnt know the numbers involved, Verm ,I was in fact asking for data (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Of course those numbers are quite big (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) and so I agree with the 3 cannon setup for the Yak9 (I did agree before anyway (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif))
And the whole issue that the 109 losses performance if you add different guns to it, well thats obvious (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) All aircraft in the game perform differently if you add more guns to them, and so will the Yak. Its an even playing field called physics (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Um, yes I suppose so, but still the 109's maneouverability lose with wing cannons isn't anything near wo changing 2 heavy MGs ofr 2 cannons...more if you see that the cannons are very near the centerline,so having a minimal effect on rollrate,and they dont add too much drag to the aircraft, so minimizing the speed loss (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I agree with the inclusion of Yak9UT...but not on the grounds of "the 109 has more weapons choices" (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Anyway right now a Yak9U is like a more stable ,slower but better turning 109G10... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) quite dangerous plane IMHO (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Give me a source of information on these alternate loadouts. I currently can't do this without it just being wishful thinking.
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
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I can ask Leo to dig some up for you pyro and also Oleg Maddox has reams of info from russian archives, would having him contact you help?
BTW verm.. The Yak had only the 9U and 9T, there was no "UT". However the Yak 9U did come in several flavours, triple 20mm and 23mm being amongst them. The 9T had the 37mm etc etc and a few had 23mm, they were confusing even to the people who were naming them ! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
However it IS a fact that most Yak-9u after winter of '44 had either triple 20mm UB cannons firing ShVAK through a disintegrating chain feed system, or 20mm with 2 12.7mm. The 23mm were not very common, they were maybe only 300 or so made- most went into Yak-9T. However.. I agree verm- if 109 has 30mm options for buff killing Yak should get at least the 23mm.. very similar performance and will not unbalance anything really- it just gives VVS a placeholder untill the Yak-9T gets modelled with 37mm.
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I asked Oleg about the Yak-9UT, and his reply was that only 282 actually saw combat against Germany. As to the use of large cannons in the -9UT, Oleg said that of those aircraft that did see combat the first series used the NS-23, but that no series was equipped with 37mm or 45mm cannons against Germany. However, I don't know what specific documents he based this off. And that, my friend, is the $64k question (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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leonid, Kompol
5 GIAP VVS-KA, Knights (http://www.adamfive.com/guerrero)
"Our cause is just. The enemy will be crushed. Victory will be ours."
[This message has been edited by leonid (edited 07-27-2000).]
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puntski !
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VVS aircraft have become an extinct species in the skies of AH. In my 2.5 hours of flying yesterday evening (Most of it in a Yak), I did not see a single La5fn, and I saw a grand total of 1 Yak-9U sortie other than myself. And he lasted a grand total of 30 seconds under a vulch. And this was in the “hotspots” in the arena.
The first sentence is simply untrue. The VVS is alive and well in AH, curtesy of the La7. True, the LA5 is pretty rare, but the Yak9U sees a bit of use- a bit less than the 109G10 and 190D9, but most people fly the LA7 if they get a hankering to fly a Soviet plane.
The Yak-9U is an incredibly fun aircraft to fly except for the fact that it is extremely difficult (ie almost impossible) to get a non-surprise kill.
I didn't have any trouble killing people in it last tour- I didn't fly it very often though. The armnament is a little on the weak side, but you can stay on a planes tail fairly easily in it to hit them.
Also, I'd like to add that I don't really have a problem with HTC adding new gun loadouts to the Yak, maybe it will draw some folks out of the LA7. As an aside, it looks as though the Spit may lose its perpetual place as the 2nd most favored ride in the MA. Looks like folks are jumping over to the N1K2 instead, maybe the LA7 will take over the 2nd spot this month or next month.
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Heuuuuuu ...
First I see a lot of VVS aircrafts. True the LA5 is very rare overshadowed by his big brother.
As afr as the Yak, It's the best aircraft in AH in my POV. Turns great, good acceleration and kick bellybutton speed. Of course, you cannot have a 10 kill serie like with a FW or a P47 but once you engage a guy and take your time it's a "sure kill".
Sometimes, thank to his speed you can even run away from vulchers. The Yak is my number one killer in P47.
Olivier "Frenchy" Raunier
(http://home.cfl.rr.com/rauns/sig-frenchy1.jpg)
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Urchin, Frenchy,
Keep in mind that when this thread was written there was no La-7 in AH. The statement was mostly true at the time of the thread.
Straffo just punted the thread because he wants to bring attention to the lack of gun options on the Yaks.
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Originally posted by Karnak:
Urchin, Frenchy,
Straffo just punted the thread because he wants to bring attention to the lack of gun options on the Yaks.
Plain right !
I should have precised it when punting (?) the thread :)
Especially since the LA7 as 2 gun options...
(I'm doing a bit of cleanup in my favorite folde :D)
[ 08-10-2001: Message edited by: straffo ]
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here is a little link.... will give you general info on different models of yak's
YAK general info (http://wio.boom.ru/tacftr/yak.htm)
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---==== !!!!!!!!!!! 262 !!!!!!! ====----
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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VVS planes extinct?
Tour 18 data:
The La-7 has 10505 kills and has been killed 8651 times
The Yak-9T has 958 kills and has been killed 1265 times.
The Yak-9U has 2955 kills and has been killed 2306 times.
The La-5FN has 978 kills and has been killed 990 times.
The Bf 109G-10 has 5933 kills and has been killed 5561 times.
The Fw 190D-9 has 4313 kills and has been killed 2791 times.
One plane alone has more kills than the two most popular LW rides together :).
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"One plane alone has more kills than the two most popular LW rides together"
Also shot down more than them combined ;)
Westy
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Funny how he missed that part, eh Westy?
He's got ya there Santa. ;)
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Shot down also shows how common the plane is. Knowing the qualities of La7, the high death number can be attributed to pilots and things they try do with it.
Last tour La7 was one of the most often planes I met in the sky. Sometimes there were 5-6 enemies around - all La7s. Usually flown by Spit/Niki types or ones who can't afford the Temp.
Look at it this way. La7 is IMO, better than D-9 in every aspect. Therefore, dweebs flock to it. This leaves D-9 rarely used, but with better K/D overall.
Easy to do well in is a double edged sword. Dweebs recognize the plane and ruin its record. As if sometimes the easiness to fly a plane is surpassed by stupidity of some trying to do impossible in it ;).
[ 08-11-2001: Message edited by: Hristo ]
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Originally posted by straffo:
Plain right !
I should have precised it when punting (?) the thread :)
Especially since the LA7 as 2 gun options...
(I'm doing a bit of cleanup in my favorite folde :D)
[ 08-10-2001: Message edited by: straffo ]
it's puntDay ...
and no I still don't have cleaned my favorites :D
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The year is 2001.
The thread was started in 2000.
Work it out. It ain't that hard. ;)
PS. 3 B20s on the Yak would make it a very popular ride. Not sure I would like that - I like being part of a cult. ;)
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I am all for adding different armament options on all planes.