Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: dkff49 on July 23, 2009, 12:43:22 PM
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I have acquired a mig welder for the perfect price (FREE) from my brother-in-law. Right now it is set up for gas shielding but I don't have the 300 dollars toget that first bottle of gas since he did not give me a bottle to go with it.
What needs to be done within the machine to get it to run fluxcore? Switch polarities? Change the tip?
I would love to be able to run it with the gas shield and I am going to start saving up but until then it would be nice to be able to use until then and it will likely be several months until I can get the money to buy the cylinder.
Thanks for your help
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GMAW/MIG uses different kinds of wires and all need to be used with an externally supplied inert shielding gas to make sound welds. But keep in mind that running no Argon, you're are basically arc welding.
Solid wire(Er70s-6,etc) are probably the most common and use argon/c02 gas mixes. Minor cleaning, easy to use and good quality welds.
Flux core (FCAW) needs a shielding gas, people use it without a shielding gas thinking the flux alone will protect the weld. But when it fails they blame the process itself, which is incorrect. However flux core used with a shielding gas has deeper penetration than solid wire and easier to use "out of position". Neither fluxcore or solid wire is better than the other when used properly (Argon) because they both deposit sound welds. However, for hobby welding and minor repairs solid wire is the best choice, its quick, clean and user friendly.
Without the Argon, using fluxcore will get VERY MESSY. You will have spatter and some slag on the weld itself.
They build battleships with fluxcore and stick, not solid wire, when it comes to heavy steel fluxcore is what you want(just dont forget the shielding gas, wire is wire...they all need it), but you need the Argon.
I welded for a year and this is what I picked up from a Master Welder who used to be Based at McClellan AFB as a welder of airframes. I hope this helps you.
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Flux core is used in the absence of shielding gas. If your gun is capable for flux core wire, it is a matter of setting up your wire speed/voltage to make it run with out much splatter. The point of the flux cor is having the slag on the weld to protect the weld. The type of welder he is most likely talking about is in the $300-$600 range, not the type used to run on airframes or battleships. Most likely within the limit of 5/16" maximum steel thickness. What brand and power input is your welder, I might be able to help with the settings.
Granted, you can use shielding gas, but the point of flux core in a small welder is so that it can be used in wind.
You will have to switch polarities (assuming yours doesn't have a setting for it). Be sure to use the same size tip as the wire you purchase (.035 for .035), and don't set the drive wheels too tight. Too tight a setting on the drive wheels will cause the wire to break at the wheels, since flux core is much softer than solid, and you will be wasting alot of wire (however long your lead is) and acquiring alot of frustration.
Also, you do not necessarily need the diffuser, insulator, or the cup, but it will help keep you from arcing out on the tip itself.
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The welder is a PowerMig 130.
Does switching the polarity involve only swapping the lead and ground wires inside the machine?
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Flux core is used in the absence of shielding gas. If your gun is capable for flux core wire, it is a matter of setting up your wire speed/voltage to make it run with out much splatter. The point of the flux cor is having the slag on the weld to protect the weld. The type of welder he is most likely talking about is in the $300-$600 range, not the type used to run on airframes or battleships. Most likely within the limit of 5/16" maximum steel thickness. What brand and power input is your welder, I might be able to help with the settings.
Granted, you can use shielding gas, but the point of flux core in a small welder is so that it can be used in wind.
You will have to switch polarities (assuming yours doesn't have a setting for it). Be sure to use the same size tip as the wire you purchase (.035 for .035), and don't set the drive wheels too tight. Too tight a setting on the drive wheels will cause the wire to break at the wheels, since flux core is much softer than solid, and you will be wasting alot of wire (however long your lead is) and acquiring alot of frustration.
Also, you do not necessarily need the diffuser, insulator, or the cup, but it will help keep you from arcing out on the tip itself.
I never said his was, that was merely a good example of what most people have no clue about. I personally wouldn't change the polarity on a welder that doesn't have a setting.
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Not sure why a bottle of argon would cost you $300. If you have the regulator and hose you can buy a small cylinder for under $100 then what ever it costs to fill it. Even if you need the hose and regulator you can get that for under $100 as well.
link to welding supplies:
http://store.cyberweld.com/migaccessories1.html
I only used this link as an example. I have never personally bought anything from them.
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Not sure why a bottle of argon would cost you $300. If you have the regulator and hose you can buy a small cylinder for under $100 then what ever it costs to fill it. Even if you need the hose and regulator you can get that for under $100 as well.
link to welding supplies:
http://store.cyberweld.com/migaccessories1.html
I only used this link as an example. I have never personally bought anything from them.
Exactly my thinking too. An 80lb tank is unnecessary right now, you only need a 20lb CF Argon cylinder (T size) and you'll get about an 1 hour out of it.
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Sweet! I work at Lincoln Electric.......Thanks for using Lincoln products :rock
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Sweet! I work at Lincoln Electric.......Thanks for using Lincoln products :rock
Are you in sales?
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No I'm not in sales. I work as a destructive Lab Tech. I'm the guy who gets to put all of our welders thru their paces.
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Not sure why a bottle of argon would cost you $300. If you have the regulator and hose you can buy a small cylinder for under $100 then what ever it costs to fill it. Even if you need the hose and regulator you can get that for under $100 as well.
link to welding supplies:
http://store.cyberweld.com/migaccessories1.html
I only used this link as an example. I have never personally bought anything from them.
Thanks for showing me that site. That is where I'll most likely be ordering from but for now even that is little more than I have.
I did a search earlier on welding supplies but mostly only looked locally. Turns out that the only welding shop in the town that I live in only carries the 140 cubic ft cylinder and it was $280 with the gas. I did not find any sites like that one during my search.
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In 39 years in the construction/maintenance business the argon/carbon dioxide blend gasses (there are many combinations) I have found, are the most cost effective and produce the most desired weld puddle control (depending upon what you are welding) in the short arc (mig) process. 100% argon usually is predominately used in the heliarc (tig) process.
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I'm not sure how well your welder would convert over to flux core wire feed. I will tell you this, using flux core is very much like using a stick arc. In that there is a lot of spatter you will need a chipping hammer and wire brush you have to clean the weld up just like you would with a stick arc. I'm speaking from experience here as I'm using one of those $90 Harbor Freight flux core welders for my current projects, and only wish I had a decent little mig welder.
If it was me I would save up my pennies for the gas cylinder. A properly set up mig welder is a wonderful thing. It can make you think you are a real pro welder in little to no time with the welds you can produce. Use to be that welders felt like using a mig was cheating because it made welding so easy.
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just in case you happen to be welding stainless:
Clean with a s/s wire brush and chipping hammer or you will be adding extra iron into the equation and cause tea staining or weep (rust sort of)
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My old job actually was stick welding frames for evaporator coils. These coils were for industrial refrigeration. So I know what it is like to use a welder and have lots of mess. I had actually done a great deal of mig welding also before leaving that job but never really got much into the difference between flux core and gas shielding since all the migs were set up for gas shielding.
I am actually pretty excited about having my own welder and after borrowing my brother-in-laws welder (since mine is not set up yet) realized that it is more or less like riding a bike, once you have it you don't lose it. After playing with it for about 10-15 minutes, getting the settings right and remembering the little "tricks" I was producing good welds.
Thanks for all the input here guys. I will most likely try a roll of flux core wire ($12 for small roll at Lowes) to try it out and to get started to some extent but will definitely be moving to gas shield ASAP.
BTW mig is kind of like cheating. ;)
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Not sure why a bottle of argon would cost you $300. If you have the regulator and hose you can buy a small cylinder for under $100 then what ever it costs to fill it. Even if you need the hose and regulator you can get that for under $100 as well.
link to welding supplies:
http://store.cyberweld.com/migaccessories1.html
I only used this link as an example. I have never personally bought anything from them.
I was gonna say the same thing.. If you can stay away from inner-shield, by all means, do so.. Your weld will be much better as well as look much nicer.. Like the other dude said, you'll have to deal with slag.. Not sure about you, but I hate slag.. Always gets inside my gauntlets some how when I chip it off and I get all burnt up..
I used to sell welders and gas.. While I'm not an expert on technique by any means(I can run a pretty nice bead), I know what's available as far as consumables (wire, gas, regulators,hoses, tips, what gas to use with what kinds of metal, etc).. When I worked for AGA(which was bought out by BOC or Linde I think) we used to carry 2 cf (cubic foot) cylinders of Argon, CO2, 50% Argon/CO2 Mix, and we used to do customer mixes as well.. Back then (this is 8 or 9 years ago) you could buy a 2cf tank for about $30.00 and filling it would be $5.00 a pop(usually they just switch out the tank and give you a full one). Getting a gas set up isn't that expensive.. Like someone else said, not sure where you got the $300.00 figure.. We used to sell 300cf tanks for $80.00.. If you're gonna do it, might as well do it right...
One word of advice, aluminum is hard to do if you're not experienced and if you're not using the right gas mixture.. While a 50/50 Argon/CO2 mix is sort of a universal shielding gas, 100% Argon will give you your best results for Aluminum. A Tri-Mix of O2, CO2, and Argon would be ideal for Stainless Steel.. From some reason, the properties in stainless steel inhibiting arc stability.. Adding O2 to the mix help stabilize the arc..
I wouldn't consider welding much more than regular steel of you're going to use inner core...
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Anyone know of a cheap tig welder for chromoly and stainless?
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Anyone know of a cheap tig welder for chromoly and stainless?
Been a fan of TD (Thermal Dynamics) for a long time.. Didn't even know something this cheap existed.. Not sure how far you'll get on 85 amps though..
This will do stick welding too...
http://www.toolsforless.com/product/29998/Thermal_Dynamics_10-3077A1_Dragster_85_TIG_Welding_Package (http://www.toolsforless.com/product/29998/Thermal_Dynamics_10-3077A1_Dragster_85_TIG_Welding_Package)
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My old job actually was stick welding frames for evaporator coils. These coils were for industrial refrigeration. So I know what it is like to use a welder and have lots of mess. I had actually done a great deal of mig welding also before leaving that job but never really got much into the difference between flux core and gas shielding since all the migs were set up for gas shielding.
I am actually pretty excited about having my own welder and after borrowing my brother-in-laws welder (since mine is not set up yet) realized that it is more or less like riding a bike, once you have it you don't lose it. After playing with it for about 10-15 minutes, getting the settings right and remembering the little "tricks" I was producing good welds.
Thanks for all the input here guys. I will most likely try a roll of flux core wire ($12 for small roll at Lowes) to try it out and to get started to some extent but will definitely be moving to gas shield ASAP.
BTW mig is kind of like cheating. ;)
At my job I covered a Tig root pass, with a Mig cover. Hydrostatic tested with no failures. :devil
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I was gonna say the same thing.. If you can stay away from inner-shield, by all means, do so.. Your weld will be much better as well as look much nicer.. Like the other dude said, you'll have to deal with slag.. Not sure about you, but I hate slag.. Always gets inside my gauntlets some how when I chip it off and I get all burnt up..
I used to sell welders and gas.. While I'm not an expert on technique by any means(I can run a pretty nice bead), I know what's available as far as consumables (wire, gas, regulators,hoses, tips, what gas to use with what kinds of metal, etc).. When I worked for AGA(which was bought out by BOC or Linde I think) we used to carry 2 cf (cubic foot) cylinders of Argon, CO2, 50% Argon/CO2 Mix, and we used to do customer mixes as well.. Back then (this is 8 or 9 years ago) you could buy a 2cf tank for about $30.00 and filling it would be $5.00 a pop(usually they just switch out the tank and give you a full one). Getting a gas set up isn't that expensive.. Like someone else said, not sure where you got the $300.00 figure.. We used to sell 300cf tanks for $80.00.. If you're gonna do it, might as well do it right...
One word of advice, aluminum is hard to do if you're not experienced and if you're not using the right gas mixture.. While a 50/50 Argon/CO2 mix is sort of a universal shielding gas, 100% Argon will give you your best results for Aluminum. A Tri-Mix of O2, CO2, and Argon would be ideal for Stainless Steel.. From some reason, the properties in stainless steel inhibiting arc stability.. Adding O2 to the mix help stabilize the arc..
I wouldn't consider welding much more than regular steel of you're going to use inner core...
AGA was purchased by Linde, who was bought out by Airgas. I dealt with Linde at Pfizer here in Ann Arbor. Compressed Gases Team Lead, fun job. Although had two close calls of idiot Colleagues.
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At my job I covered a Tig root pass, with a Mig cover. Hydrostatic tested with no failures. :devil
that is funny.
I used to have to fill gaps so wide that I would have to lay an 1/8 6011 welding rod in the gap to fill it and then differing metals. One was 3/16 angle for the corners and the other was 8GA for the panels which needed to be welded together. :eek: all this with a stick welder. My partner would always steal a mig from the flat welding department to fill his side in (cheater). :lol
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that is funny.
I used to have to fill gaps so wide that I would have to lay an 1/8 6011 welding rod in the gap to fill it. :eek: all this with a stick welder. My partner would always steal a mig from the flat welding department to fill his side in (cheater). :lol
I worked with 3/8" to 1.25" gaps to completely cover, with no margin of error. It was a good gig.
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I worked with 3/8" to 1.25" gaps to completely cover, with no margin of error. It was a good gig.
oh the gaps were much larger than 1/8". That was just what I had laying around to help fill them with.
I do miss the challenge though sometimes. Of course now I don'thave to breathe in the smoke from from the welds and from the multitude of oil laying under the coils.
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Sweet! I work at Lincoln Electric.......Thanks for using Lincoln products :rock
My shop has all Miller equipment :)
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My shop has all Miller equipment :)
That's all I used too. That and ESAB Marathon Pac's. Both together were the cat's ass.