Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Fulmar on July 24, 2009, 07:20:33 PM
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So I'll try and make this brief as possible. A couple weeks ago, my wife's 2005 Ford Focus SES (2.0L 4 cyl) had the Fuel Cap light come on. She checked the cap and it was fine, but the light remained on. I messed with it and it stayed on. So I discoed the battery for a few minutes to reset the ECU, problem solved...for a day or two. Light came back on while driving, did the same thing left it discoed for a couple hours. Two days later the Emissions light comes on while driving. So I read through the owners manual which is fairly vague and recommends that if the emissions light stays on for more than 2-3 tank fulls, have it serviced. So I was going to do this route as the car seemed to be running just fine. Right now I'm on tank #1.
So I get a call from my wife when she's leaving work that her car won't start. On the phone she said it didn't want to completely turn over. So I figured she may have left the lights on. I stop by work to grab a battery load tester, jump pack and jumper cables. Pop the hood, her Group 40R rated at 650 CCA is cranking 965 (replaced the battery in Feb '09). So I'm thinking starter, I have her try and start it and the starter seems fine catching the fly wheel fine but it kind of chugged a little and failed to start. Almost as if it was getting enough fuel (not a car expert). So I try and start it again and it starts fine (maybe a little chugging).
My wife tried to start it 3-4 times, I arrived 30-40 minutes later. Vehicle sat for maybe 8 hours.
Looking for any input anyone has.
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2005 Ford Focus
Well, there's your problem. :D
Just kidding, hopefully somebody can help you out.
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Well, there's your problem. :D
+1
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Is the check engine light on?
If so check the codes stored in the computer at a local parts store. Most of the major brands to this for free. Let me know and we can go from there.
<S>
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Is the check engine light on?
If so check the codes stored in the computer at a local parts store. Most of the major brands to this for free. Let me know and we can go from there.
<S>
Check engine is not on.
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My Saturn SL2 did the exact same thing right before the timing chain snapped....
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Looking on google it seems to be a recurring problem on those.
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Ford cars, bad times. Truck ok but not cars...same with pontiac but those are going bye bye thank god.
That said... Fuel pump or fuel transfer issues.
Also, at night or in the garage under low light, (with the door open), have someone try to crank it up with one of the plug wires pulled slightly off hovering over the plug. Can't remember how I used to do this, been a long time but ensures I'm getting a spark for ignition.
If that works out, then you have to play around with fuel. On newer cars I can't tell you what to do esp on that specific model but would suggest you research on how to find out if the engine is getting fuel. Ask your wife if it chugged more when she first tried starting it then from then on did what it is doing now, just chugging (like its not getting fuel). Proving that the remainder of the fuel in there was enough to get her almost cranked over or cranked over a bit then died from lack of fuel.
Might also be some automatic theft protection system accidental trip, in which case again - no fuel to engine.
Either way, I know you are in a pinch and feel for you. Not sure where the car is now, but I hope it is in an area where you can play around with it a bit ..preferably at home obviously but probably unlikely. If you attempt to jump it, and the starter system sounds normal...and you have lights, then it is fuel or some sensor. If it is a sensor you are going to have to garage it my friend and fork the cash unfortunately unless you find a magic bullet response from someone either here or online that knows EXACTLY what the problems is and EXACTLY how to fix it.
I had the SAME problem with an older ford that I had. Damn fuel line broke! Fuel everywhere, middle of gd'n winter on a back road with freshly laid snow and barely any room to pull off. I took a damn latex glove and some pony tail holders and 'fixed it'. Then the wipers died. Then the heater died. Then the transmission started slipping, then I started leaking oil...then I pushed the car over the hill.
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then I pushed the car over the hill.
My great grandfather's Model T is still somewhere at the bottom of the Deception Pass... :D
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Myself, my wife and our families have had a good majority of Ford vehicles over the years. Most have been pretty good. I had an overhead gasket go on my 1993 Taurus back in the day, but it was 9 years old at the time. My dad has had electrical starting issues on his '01 F-150, but otherwise pretty good luck IMO.
Sincraft, I was able to get it started when I picked it up at my wife's work and it drove fine. I'm taking it in to get serviced today. I have some petroleum jelly standing by to help ease the hurt.
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Well, there's your problem. :D
Just kidding, hopefully somebody can help you out.
Found On Road Dead. :)
Fulmar are you taking it to the Ford dealer or Goodyear or somewhere along those lines?
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So I'll try and make this brief as possible. A couple weeks ago, my wife's 2005 Ford Focus SES (2.0L 4 cyl) had the Fuel Cap light come on. She checked the cap and it was fine, but the light remained on. I messed with it and it stayed on. So I discoed the battery for a few minutes to reset the ECU, problem solved...for a day or two. Light came back on while driving, did the same thing left it discoed for a couple hours. Two days later the Emissions light comes on while driving. So I read through the owners manual which is fairly vague and recommends that if the emissions light stays on for more than 2-3 tank fulls, have it serviced. So I was going to do this route as the car seemed to be running just fine. Right now I'm on tank #1.
So I get a call from my wife when she's leaving work that her car won't start. On the phone she said it didn't want to completely turn over. So I figured she may have left the lights on. I stop by work to grab a battery load tester, jump pack and jumper cables. Pop the hood, her Group 40R rated at 650 CCA is cranking 965 (replaced the battery in Feb '09). So I'm thinking starter, I have her try and start it and the starter seems fine catching the fly wheel fine but it kind of chugged a little and failed to start. Almost as if it was getting enough fuel (not a car expert). So I try and start it again and it starts fine (maybe a little chugging).
My wife tried to start it 3-4 times, I arrived 30-40 minutes later. Vehicle sat for maybe 8 hours.
Looking for any input anyone has.
the "gas cap" light is on, because either the gas cap(most likely) or the filler neck is bad. it's not sealing properly, allowing fuel vapors to leak into the atmosphere.
the computer system checks this by either applying a vacuum, or applying pressure into the fuel tank. it then monitors this pressure. any drop outside of specs, and it trips a code, and one of the lights.
some fords(contours) had a major problem with the filler neck wearing, right where the cap threads on.
when you disconnected the battery, you cleared the code, but only temporarily. OBD2 systems are much more efficient than the systems of old.
what happened, was when the monitors set, the system saw that there was still a problem, so it re-lit the light. this is also most likely why the CEL is on now.
when you have it checked, you're most likely going to find some sort of EVAP system code in it. there is a slight possibilit that this could cause the computer to have issues keeping the engine properly trimmed. it could also be that you have another issue in there. you need to get it checked out.
if you do, and they give you a code number, let me know, and i'll explain it to ya. if you're anywhere near south jersey, i'd be glad to help ya out. if ya want advice that might need more than typing in here, pm me, and i'll pm ya my cell.
good luck dude!
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Well put CAP1. Unlike the other hijackers.
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What I don't know about newer cars would fill several books but I do recall Ford's used to have a fuel pump shutoff with a reset in the rear. Found out about it when a similar situation occurred.
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What I don't know about newer cars would fill several books but I do recall Ford's used to have a fuel pump shutoff with a reset in the rear. Found out about it when a similar situation occurred.
yes, they did. from 83(i think) till at least 2002.
it's called the inertia switch. it's intended to shut down the fuel system if there's a significant impact, or a roll over.
you are right. they used to go bad all the time. for some reason, i only had problems with them on tempos, and escorts...and their mercury twins.
if you suspect that, look in the back of the car....usually on the drivers side. there'll be a small access, and it will be labeled "fuel pump shutoff".
punch it hard enough to trip it. then reset it. if the car starts that was your problem.
from 2000 on up, i think that ford added a light on the dash that lit up if somethign tripped that switch.
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When I took it to the garage today it started just fine, without a hitch. I don't think its the fuel pump shutoff switch. I know the problem you're talking about though with ford's and that. Back in the day my mom's '89 Taurus had that shutoff switch problem.
We'll wait and see what my mechanic says.
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When I took it to the garage today it started just fine, without a hitch. I don't think its the fuel pump shutoff switch. I know the problem you're talking about though with ford's and that. Back in the day my mom's '89 Taurus had that shutoff switch problem.
We'll wait and see what my mechanic says.
technician. :D if he can figure out what's wrong in the computer system, he's a tech. the mechanics are the guys that throw parts on cars, and do brakes, shocks, etc......... :aok
lemme know.....i'm curious. i'm also glad to offer any advice i can for ya.
john
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I know on the Mustang, there's a website where u enter your error code, and it get possible issues as a result. Since it's also a Ford, u can probably find it online. Cars are not computers, the light usually comes up for a reason, resetting the battery doesn't magically clear stuff up.
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I originally only reset the battery when only the fuel cap light came on as the cap was properly secured and I hoped it was a 'glitch.'
Anyways, the tech I took it to referred me to take it to the dealer as he could only read the codes and didn't have the oem tools to actually control the computer and test the components to help find where the leak is. Simplified version of our conversation. The codes that were coming up with PO455 and PO457.
P0455 reads that there is either a fuel vapor leak or lack of purge flow in the EVAP control system.
P0457 is the check fuel cap code.
He couldn't duplicate the starting issue I had yesterday and he didn't think it was related to the EVAP problem, other than maybe the mixture was running rich which would cause some 'chugging' that my wife briefly experienced or so she says.
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Could it be something as simple as a defective sensor?
I know on my dads car the check engine light comes on due to a defective sensor in the exhaust.
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Could it be something as simple as a defective sensor?
I know on my dads car the check engine light comes on due to a defective sensor in the exhaust.
No, he said he saw the leak of fuel.
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I originally only reset the battery when only the fuel cap light came on as the cap was properly secured and I hoped it was a 'glitch.'
Anyways, the tech I took it to referred me to take it to the dealer as he could only read the codes and didn't have the oem tools to actually control the computer and test the components to help find where the leak is. Simplified version of our conversation. The codes that were coming up with PO455 and PO457.
P0455 reads that there is either a fuel vapor leak or lack of purge flow in the EVAP control system.
P0457 is the check fuel cap code.
He couldn't duplicate the starting issue I had yesterday and he didn't think it was related to the EVAP problem, other than maybe the mixture was running rich which would cause some 'chugging' that my wife briefly experienced or so she says.
P0455=EVAP control system leak, either no purge flow, or large leak detected. by large leak, they usually mean a leak larger than .080.
P0457=EVAP control system leak detected(fuel filler cap loose or off.)
if you have the car back in your posesion, go out, and remove the gas cap. look very carefully at it. there is a rubber seal on it. check that, to be sure that it doesn't look cracked, or dry-rotted. if it looks ok, then look at the threading...again, very carefully. if they look ok, then look at the threading in the filler neck. the problem i mentioned before on the contours, was in the filler neck. ford(in all of their infinite wisdom) had put a plastic "lining" on the top 3 or 4 inches of the filler neck. right where the cap threads in.
if all looks ok with the cap(i kinda doubt it will), then the purge valve is somewhat common on fords too.
with fords, you need to look very carefully at pretty much everything, as one code can cause many others. this is because the system works so well, that the computer will trip a code in any system it sees a problem with....even if it's caused by another system. it makes diagnosis harder for those that don't know how to do it without datastream.
with the way you originally described the problem, i am forced to head right back to that gas cap.
something else you might want to consider.......if your mileage is low enough, you MIGHT still get this under warranty. most manufacturers cover emission control problems for 5 years or 50-60k miles i think.
if you prefer to avoid the dealer, then click this link http://www.napaautocare.com/
on the left side, type in your city, state and zip code.......it'll give you a list of the napa autocare centers near you. 99% of them will have the proper equipment to diagnose this for you.
i really cannot believe the shop you took it to turned you away. these problems are very easy to diagnose.....i use nothing more than a smoke machine for the majority of EVAP problems. if that doesn't find them, then i have a powered test light(for testing the solenoids and valves) and a DVOM for reading everythign.
i hope this has helped you at least a little bit.
let me know if i can help more, ok?
john
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No, he said he saw the leak of fuel.
he saw actual gasoline leaking from your car? did he say where?
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I don't recall him saying exactly where the leak was, but that there was a large leak.
I'm fairly certain the tech I dealt with really didn't want to deal with the car. I knew he was backed up and was running quite behind, I dropped the car off at 8am and they didn't start to look at it till after 5pm. Which is pretty surprising since I've used this shop quite a few times before without any complaints.
Depending on what is actually wrong with the car emissions part of the car, it may be under warranty as I think it's either 5 or 6 years the last time I thumbed through the owners manual. I've have to check into it with the dealer.
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I don't recall him saying exactly where the leak was, but that there was a large leak.
I'm fairly certain the tech I dealt with really didn't want to deal with the car. I knew he was backed up and was running quite behind, I dropped the car off at 8am and they didn't start to look at it till after 5pm. Which is pretty surprising since I've used this shop quite a few times before without any complaints.
Depending on what is actually wrong with the car emissions part of the car, it may be under warranty as I think it's either 5 or 6 years the last time I thumbed through the owners manual. I've have to check into it with the dealer.
i think you'll find it to be under warranty.
the focus is actually a really good car. most fords are much better than they get credit for being.
good luck, and keep us updated!
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Hey, you will get better help here -----> www.focusfanatics.com (http://www.focusfanatics.com)
Than you will here. Because this is a focus specific board.
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Hey, you will get better help here -----> www.focusfanatics.com (http://www.focusfanatics.com)
Than you will here. Because this is a focus specific board.
YA, 'CAUSE THOSE of us that fix these things for a living don't know anything......... :rolleyes:
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Hey, you will get better help here -----> www.focusfanatics.com (http://www.focusfanatics.com)
Than you will here. Because this is a focus specific board.
I have worked on many cars, not as a mechanic, but because I'm mechanically inclined. 1982 XJ6, toughest brake job ever. A chitload of Jeeps of all variants. From removing bent driveshafts in 2 feet of snow, pounding out the bearings and having installed in less than 10 minutes. From working on many Mo-powers, Ford, Chevies, etc because a friend was in need and short on cash.
But your post comes off as very condescending, even if it wasn't the intent.
This forum is odd at times. If I EVER thought of "building an engine", VirgilHilts would be called and even if it wasn't a Chevy engine in question, he'd give me factual information. CAP1 seems to know a ton as well.
EDIT: Fulmar, just be careful of the Ignition Cylinder rings. The Focuses use the identical ignition as my "old" 2002 Explorer. I had 38,000 miles on it and one rings bent. The dealer covered it without question, but it blew chunks and I know this is common on Focuses and Explorers. As well as faulty Ignition Electrics making Tow Truck drivers rich by towing Town & Country's and Focuses.
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I have worked on many cars, not as a mechanic, but because I'm mechanically inclined. 1982 XJ6, toughest brake job ever. A chitload of Jeeps of all variants. From removing bent driveshafts in 2 feet of snow, pounding out the bearings and having installed in less than 10 minutes. From working on many Mo-powers, Ford, Chevies, etc because a friend was in need and short on cash.
But your post comes off as very condescending, even if it wasn't the intent.
This forum is odd at times. If I EVER thought of "building an engine", VirgilHilts would be called and even if it wasn't a Chevy engine in question, he'd give me factual information. CAP1 seems to know a ton as well.
thanks dude.......
i know some racing....mostly on ford smallblocks though. i know a little about chevys. my racing knowledge pales in comparison to virgil though.
fixing them.......if i don't know how when it comes in my bay, i will when it leaves. if it can fit in my bay, i can fix it. :aok
and i FRAKKIN love working on the computer nightmares that most hate. :D
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thanks dude.......
i know some racing....mostly on ford smallblocks though. i know a little about chevys. my racing knowledge pales in comparison to virgil though.
fixing them.......if i don't know how when it comes in my bay, i will when it leaves. if it can fit in my bay, i can fix it. :aok
and i FRAKKIN love working on the computer nightmares that most hate. :D
hehe, I'm the type of person that would come by your garage and dawdle by it, not out of impatience. But more of "Give me a f**king wrench and let me help." :cool:
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I was bashed by you guys for wanting to put a v8 in my focus. It can be done, has been done, and will continue to be done.
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I was bashed by you guys for wanting to put a v8 in my focus. It can be done, has been done, and will continue to be done.
that's nothing new.
i've seen pintos with 302's and 351's. i even saw one with a boss 302 in it.
i've seen falcons with 427's stuffed in em. i've seen a k-car with a 440 magnum in it. all street legal.
focuses are actually better cars than they get credit for.
i think it's the hysteria thing.........someone exclaims how much car X sucks, then everyone jumps onboard, without ever even knowing what they;'re talking about.
if you have a v8 in yours, i;d love to see it....it HAS to be awsome! :aok
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I was bashed by you guys for wanting to put a v8 in my focus. It can be done, has been done, and will continue to be done.
I didn't "bash" you. I merely said "Is it really worth the time and effort", if you revert back to that post of mine.
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that's nothing new.
i've seen pintos with 302's and 351's. i even saw one with a boss 302 in it.
i've seen falcons with 427's stuffed in em. i've seen a k-car with a 440 magnum in it. all street legal.
focuses are actually better cars than they get credit for.
i think it's the hysteria thing.........someone exclaims how much car X sucks, then everyone jumps onboard, without ever even knowing what they;'re talking about.
if you have a v8 in yours, i;d love to see it....it HAS to be awsome! :aok
One of my favorite You Tube clips of all time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmu9LB7Nb1A (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmu9LB7Nb1A)
:devil
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The emissions system is greek to me in my brief car know how. Plus I didn't have time to really deal with the car myself. I took it into the dealer. They did the emissions and engine control test, evap test and some fuel and ignition testing. They ended up replacing the vapor management valve as it was stuck closed which was bringing up the P0455 code.
All for a nice $297.43 bill. But I was prepared to see this.
The emissions warranty for the Focus was 3 years or 36,000 miles. About a year and 14,000 miles outside of that.
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One of my favorite You Tube clips of all time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmu9LB7Nb1A (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmu9LB7Nb1A)
:devil
dare i post that clip over on fw? :devil
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dare i post that clip over on fw? :devil
Go for it. the faux wood paneling makes you chuckle more.