Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: -ammo- on November 21, 2001, 08:02:00 PM
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The P-51D, the FW190D, and the LA7 should be perked, to a reasonable value of 10.
In addition, I think the ENY ratings of certain AC should be changed. The P-47D11, the Hurricanes for starters. I know this shouldnt be a real pressing issue, but could use some attention.
V/R
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Agreed, 100%. Bf109-G10 as well, or everyone would jump to it.
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The P-51D, the FW190D, and the LA7 should be perked, to a reasonable value of 10.
Why these in particular? I notice the N1K2 and Spitfire MkIX, the usual two punching bags, aren't on the list. I'm just curious about your reasons.
You also missed the Ki61-I-KAIc. It also needs an ENY update (The N1K2 could use one as well). ;)
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Perk EVERY plane with a cannon. Nothing with them should be allowed to fly. Why you ask??? Simple. I don';t like players who fly planes with cannons and think they should have to pay to fly the plane they like. That IS the purpose of the lead post on this thread isn't it?
Damnit just fly what you want and DON'T fediddleing worry about what anyone else flies for their $15.00 a month.
(http://www.13thtas.com/mav13sig.jpg)
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ignore.
ammo just wants an award.
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Karnak, speaking from my LW-centric point of view, it isn't nescesary to perk the SpitIX or the N1K2 to open up the rest of the LW planeset to general use. The planes that give the LW planes fits are the P-51D, the La7, the Yak-9U, the Dora, and the G10.
You can fly anything but an 109F4 and be fast enough to outrun a Spit of N1K2 on the deck. Surely this is the case with the U.S. planes as well. You'd see more P38s, P47s, and P51B (mediocre plane, IMO) if the 109G10, Dora, La7, Yak-9, and P-51D were perked. Oh yea, and the Tiffie to.
I don't know if it would work though, because there would always be a "fastest" plane to jump into that could get away from all the other planes. Just my thoughts on it, I don't know if Ammo was serious (or if this was his train of thought), or just trolling though.
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Originally posted by Urchin:
Agreed, 100%. Bf109-G10 as well, or everyone would jump to it.
Good call, I cant believe I forgot that one.
karnak saidWhy these in particular? I notice the N1K2 and Spitfire MkIX, the usual two punching bags, aren't on the list. I'm just curious about your reasons.
You also missed the Ki61-I-KAIc. It also needs an ENY update (The N1K2 could use one as well).
The Spit and the N1K are NOT perk plane material IMO. They do not dictate the fight. The N1K could create an argument for perks, but in the real truth, it just isnt fast enough to be on the level of the other AC that urchin and I mentioned. Folks get stuck in the furball mentality and end up losing to the spits, the N1k, etc.. and think they are uber. But all they really need to do is adjust there flying style, create good SA habits, and these low-wingloaded AC are no longer a big problem for them. RESIST the urge to turn :) Don't get me wrong, they are both fine AC, but easily defeated or avoided if you fly the fast AC to their strengths.
Agree completely on the ENY updates you mentioned.
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PS..I am sincere in my suggestion.
Animal, go back to trolling at the local Jr High School for a date.
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Not a bad idea. Too costly though.
P-51D : 4 perks
La7: 4 perks
190D9: 4 perks
Ta152: 20 perks
109g10:4 perks
F4U-4: 30 perks
(heck, it aint as if they dont have a variant that flies almost like they do).
Temp: 20 perks
Me262:100 perks
Arado:30 perks (kinda useless now anyway)
And some planes should have their perk winning ability increased. The Zeke, the 38L, the SpitV, the Hurricane, F4U-1a, ki61... all planes that are hard to compete with the late war planeset in the MA.
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I agree
p51d
109g10
fw190d9
la-7
should be perked atleast 10 but I would make them 8 perks to match the chog.
Karnak spits are easy kills because of the folks who fly them. The current spit planeset imho is as good as any if the right pilot is in it.
Some of my squaddies jumped in them and were surprised as to how easy it was to run up multiple kills and how survivable it is. That goes for an la7 and p47s.
Spits catch hell like the chog did or the niki cause you see so many more of them then anything else.
Theres certainly no need to perk it or the niki.
I at first really had no opinion about the chog being perked. Although I hated seeing so many of them but the chog was and is in a different catagory then the spit ix because it totally unbalanced the main with so many of them capared to their rl impact in ww2.
I think it turned out to be a good move by htc.
As we get more planes of the early-mid war type I would hope that the later planes would get a small perk price.
I pay 15 bucks too and will air my opinion. :)
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Tac my squaddies and I get an average of 8-12 perks per sortie.
We can and have gotten 50 perk sorties. With some regularity we get 20 or so per sortie.
4 perks is not enough. 8-10 are too little imho but i think its fair given the current perk prices.
My squaddie started this tour with under 200 perks he flies a 262 until he gets killed then it takes him no more then 2 days to have
enough perks to get another one.
The thing about flying planes with a lo eny value is you have a harder time gaining perks. Instead of complaining get in those planes with a higher eny value. You are limiting the number of perks you get on your own. It only takes 1 or 2 good sorties to afford a ta152 now.
Ammo is also correct that a lot of the planes should be reviewed and their eny value adjusted.
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Perk everything after 1942. :)
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Translation of initial post:
"Whaaaaaa! Mommy!!!! The big bad Pee-51s and Laffer-7's and Dorka-Niners outrun MY favorite plane!!! Waaaaaaaa! Take the big meenie fast planes away!!! I want I want to be able to run away in MY plane! Waaaahhhaaaaaa!"
Value of post = $.01 Intelligenze Quotient of post = -03 Whine value = off the scale
NEXT!
J_A_B
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I didnt whine.
I am 34-8 against the P-51
I am 28-9 against the LA-7
I am 6-2 against the Dora
I am 11-2 against the G10
I think the perk system hads merit, if it is used consistently, and fairly. I am only offering a suggestion that I think is good.
You are the one with the loud mouth. Contribute something useful, or shutup.
Next usefull thought please.
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What are perks for?
I thought they were for controlling rare planes, not for adjusting their arena appearance?
However, over and above that, having a free basic model, and a *very cheap* perked "hot" model of each ride would give newbies and the "ACM challenged" (ok, I mean buff drivers) a sense of achievement.
Is there some way of finding out how many perks per sortie the bottom 25% score on average? Could that be a guide line for cheap perk rides?
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What are perks for?
I thought they were for controlling rare planes, not for adjusting their arena appearance?
However, over and above that, having a free basic model, and a *very cheap* perked "hot" model of each ride would give newbies and the "ACM challenged" (ok, I mean buff drivers) a sense of achievement.
Is there some way of finding out how many perks per sortie the bottom 25% score on average? Could that be a guide line for cheap perk rides?
But perhaps adjusting the hot model so that no perks are scored in it, rather than charging perks for it may be more egalitarian?
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Actually Ammo my post is only as useless as yours.
Lets' perk the P-47--all of them--while we're at it. After all it dives far too well and has too much ammo and we all know what lazers the .50's are. Make the D11 cost 10, the D25 cost 15 and the D30 cost 20.
Oh...wait....you fly the Jug....can't perk that!
I think it's fairly obvious what your TRUE motives are. The only thing that surprises me is you didn't list the Typhoon in with your "want perked" planes. Perhaps you forgot about it, like the G-10.
J_A_B
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I understand what you are saying guys, and in many ways I sympathize, speed is, after all, the factor that is truely dominant.
Aircraft like the P-51D and La-7 (my two personal nemesis) do make it much harder to be competitive with your Fw190A-8, (I died twice today in that, both to P-51s, I was working an N1K2 when the second one got me) or Mosquitoes (La-7s mean my death if they don't consent to the HO) but[/b], many people pay for this game for the P-51D, Bf109G-10 and Fw190D-9. Is it so imbalanced right now that their fun needs to be diminished?
In this last month, Tour 22, we have more diversity than we have had in a long time, if ever before.
The top killer, the Spitfire MkIX, has only 9.3% of the total kills. In all Tours that I am aware of, prior to 1.08 being released, the top killers always had 15% or more of the total kills.
Here are the top 5 from Tour 22 so far:
Spitfire MkIX: 9.3%
P-51D Mustang: 7.4%
La-7: 5.6%
N1K2-J Shiden-Kai: 5.6% (58 fewer kills than the La-7)
Spitfire MkV: 5.2%
The frequency with which all of those aircraft (except maybe the Spit V) are seen in the MA are actually down from previous Tours.
I think diversity is getting better right now, and that is without perking anything that is free.
[ 11-21-2001: Message edited by: Karnak ]
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JAB SHUT UP.
that is all I have to say, other than I like the ideah about perking some planes but I am more for perking late war planes anything after 43-44 it would give newbies something to work for and it would give us old timers a chance to have fun in our favorite rides, but first I would suggest a complete server reset on all perks for everyone.
<S>
Hodo
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*cough* roadkill *cough*
What J_A_B said !
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i have to agree with ammo on this one. and hell i fly the pony and dora almost exclusively. they're killers...why not perk em? the C hog is perked and i beleive that almost nobody fly's it any more since the extra wieght got added to it in 1.08...its about like a jug now as far as the FM goes
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Originally posted by Urchin:
I don't know if it would work though, because there would always be a "fastest" plane to jump into that could get away from all the other planes
Exactly.
If we're looking for near equality, you're talking about an RPS I think. Not much support for that so, we're trying to achieve the same effect with the perk system instead?
Almost time to pour some beer and have everybody sing
"Perk 'em all
Perk 'em all
The fast and the slow and the small
Perk all the Nikis and C- Hogs in Blue!
Perk anything that can shoot back at you..."
Don't make me go look up the rest of it. ;)
With this system you'll be perking the C-205 before you know it. It's an underated ride.
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JAB, just what do you think my "true motive" is? Explain to me why you are hostile to me abouyt this. Enlighten me please.
Do you think we should unperk the ME262? The Tempest? I suppose you dont like the perk system at all?
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Okay Ammo, here goes:
You base your argument on perking certain planes on "fairness". Your idea of fair, however, seems based upon what would make your choice ride more competative.
Why perk the P-51? It doesn't dominate the MA, was mass-produced (not a rare plane), and has a severe weakness in its lack of climb and firepower. Answer--it outperforms the Jug
Why perk the LA7? It doesn't dominate the MA, has a short range and a tiny ammo load for guns that are hard to hit with. Answer--it outperforms the Jug
Why perk the D-9? It is rather under-used in the MA, has crap weapons, and can't turn to save its life. Answer--it outperforms the Jug.
Why perk the G-10? It is uncommon already, without being perked, has a tiny ammo load for guns that are useless over 300 yards, can't maneuver at speed and is generally an expert's plane. Answer--it outperforms the Jug
How is it "fair" to perk the second and third-most common MA planes, yet NOT the #1 most used? Speed is irrevelant--the Chog got perked and it's not very fast compared to a LA7.
My hostility stems from people who can't handle having to fight aircraft that outperform their choice ride, so instead they want to have those planes taken away.
I don't like the LA7. Do you see me begging to have it perked? Nope. I just deal with it. Honestly I don't much like the YAK or TYPHOON or DORA either--but others do and I have no right trying to ruin the game for them, especially for a selfish reason.
As I see it the sole reason for the existance of the perk system is to keep some plane from dominating the MA like the Spit used to in AirWarrior (about 2/3 of everything in the ETO arena was a spit). I'm all for un-perking the Tempest and F4U-4 and 262, provided they don't utterly dominate the MA (of course they would which is why they're perked). Although I was skeptical of the perk system at first, it can hardly be argued that it doesn't serve its function.
Your suggestion of altering the ENY value of some planes is perfectly valid. Proof that ENY does encourage people to use "disadvantaged" planes is the Spit 5. I'm all for increasing the ENY of uncommon planes, like the P-47. You SHOULD be rewarded for flying it, as it is tougher to succeed in a Jug than in a Stang. Give people a reason to fly them, WITHOUT destroying the game for others.
J_A_B
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Sorry to bust everyone's bubble here but WTF? Why do we need more perk fighters? I can get a kill in just about every plane out there. Do I squeak because OMFG this guy had alt and BnZ me? Spits perk them? Nope they die just as easily as any other plane they turn awesome and they climb very nice and have a respectable speed at alt. Oh thats right this is for the deck grabbers sorry. N1k perk it? Nope. It can turn but it can't run. 51D perk it? You got to be kidding me, glass jaw and turns for crap. Fw190 D-9 perk it? Ok it has speed and climb woohoo turns for crap and cannot out zoom climb a N1K, and it can be run down on the deck by quite a few others. 109 G-10, Hmm a plane with a weak jaw that can be caught that can be out turned and if you put gondolas on seriously hampers its affectiveness. Nope not buying it. I don't even think the La7 should be perked even though IMO opinion it is an awesome MA fighter. All I have to say is grab a plane learn its weaknesses and strengths use them and then come back and squeak and moan about ohh this plane needs to be perked cuz it kills me 9.9 times out of 10. What we have perked is what should stay perked and nothing more added. Pretty soon if this keeps up we all will be flying 38's and 202's and 205's and eatly 109's, oh and JU88's and TBM's sory forgot about those low end products as well. Oh and if speed is the factor perk teh P-51B with its awesome 440 mph top speed, hmm to little ammo not a lot are seen NAh we better not lets squeak about the other ones that are slower and have more ammo. I am done, we do not need nor do we have to have more perk fighters from the core that we allready have.
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Originally posted by J_A_B:
Give people a reason to fly them, WITHOUT destroying the game for others.
J_A_B
I concur with this exact statement, you posted your's while I was typing mine out. Why squeak about other planes? I used to hate seeing in the air Chog and N1k's and SPits. That was all I saw then it was down to N1k's and Spits. Now I see a diverse well sort of mixture in plane usage. And it is a lot better then what it used to be. When you get hauled down by a Dora driver or a G-10 driver chances are they know wtf they are doing so don't cry wolf. And I am all for reevaluatig the eny value on certian planes and if you would have followed my thread on changing some planes to get more use out of them this would be a more valid thread. Oh and here is that link. http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=9&t=002744 (http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=9&t=002744)
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It doesn't take any time to get perk points. We oughta have a reason to use what we've gathered.
Some act as if they are spending real money on the things.
8-10 point perk would do little to effect the make up of the main.
I fly the 109g10
I fly 190d9
more then any other. I can get in a 205 or 109g2 and in several sorties earn all the perk points I need fer the next week.
What planes are left to be modeled that should be perked 6 at most?
all i see perking the late war stuff doing is encouraging the use of some planes with a high eny value out there. And there are some damn good planes that get little use.
Ammo made some good points I could post my kills and deaths vrs these ac but its not important. i kill my share of umm.
It aint gold its just some easy to get perks.
since the niki got "adjusted" you dont see it as much and the d11 has virtually disappeared from the arena. But even when the niki was at its hieghts of dweebness it should not have been perked. that goes for the spit as well.
I did notice that the guys against ammos idea mostly fly p51ds :rolleyes:
I would imagine how much it would suck to go out and get 5-10 kills in a p51b to get your 8 perks......oh well
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Originally posted by J_A_B:
Okay Ammo, here goes:
You base your argument on perking certain planes on "fairness". Your idea of fair, however, seems based upon what would make your choice ride more competative.
Why perk the P-51? It doesn't dominate the MA, was mass-produced (not a rare plane), and has a severe weakness in its lack of climb and firepower. Answer--it outperforms the Jug
Why perk the LA7? It doesn't dominate the MA, has a short range and a tiny ammo load for guns that are hard to hit with. Answer--it outperforms the Jug
Why perk the D-9? It is rather under-used in the MA, has crap weapons, and can't turn to save its life. Answer--it outperforms the Jug.
Why perk the G-10? It is uncommon already, without being perked, has a tiny ammo load for guns that are useless over 300 yards, can't maneuver at speed and is generally an expert's plane. Answer--it outperforms the Jug
How is it "fair" to perk the second and third-most common MA planes, yet NOT the #1 most used? Speed is irrevelant--the Chog got perked and it's not very fast compared to a LA7.
My hostility stems from people who can't handle having to fight aircraft that outperform their choice ride, so instead they want to have those planes taken away.
I don't like the LA7. Do you see me begging to have it perked? Nope. I just deal with it. Honestly I don't much like the YAK or TYPHOON or DORA either--but others do and I have no right trying to ruin the game for them, especially for a selfish reason.
As I see it the sole reason for the existance of the perk system is to keep some plane from dominating the MA like the Spit used to in AirWarrior (about 2/3 of everything in the ETO arena was a spit). I'm all for un-perking the Tempest and F4U-4 and 262, provided they don't utterly dominate the MA (of course they would which is why they're perked). Although I was skeptical of the perk system at first, it can hardly be argued that it doesn't serve its function.
Your suggestion of altering the ENY value of some planes is perfectly valid. Proof that ENY does encourage people to use "disadvantaged" planes is the Spit 5. I'm all for increasing the ENY of uncommon planes, like the P-47. You SHOULD be rewarded for flying it, as it is tougher to succeed in a Jug than in a Stang. Give people a reason to fly them, WITHOUT destroying the game for others.
J_A_B
JAB, it seems you just assume too much. I dont base my "argument" on fairness, rather on performance. the AC I mentioned have a significant advantage over the rest of the planeset. As I pointed out in an earlier post, I kill alot of these AC, While I am not some uber sim pilot, I do have a knowledge of ACM, and all of the AC's strengths and weaknesses. I dont only fly the jug, check my stats. I am also not worried about dieing to either one of these AC. I assure you I die regularly to all kinds of AC, and I enjoy my AH time nonetheless. You make it out like I have some sort of ego problem. Ask anyone that knows me, it just isnt true. I believe that we are stuck having the perk system, lets use it. Dont try to make this a personal issue, I think this would be a great idea, thats all, nothing more.
Do you belong to a squad? Which one, and what AC/AC's do you enjoy in particular?
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darn ag (Sachs) :)
you could pretend to agree with me :)
actaully the only reason I'm for is to prevent ag going on a 23-0 run in a g10 with just mk108
:)
perk the damn thing stick his arse in a 109g6
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"I think the perk system hads merit, if it is used consistently, and fairly."
Apparently you DID say your argument is based upon your idea of "fairness". How is it "fair" to perk anything that out-performs the Jug, regardless of whether they're popular or not?
"the AC I mentioned have a significant advantage over the rest of the planeset."
Uh, they do? So presumably others, like the Spit, have no signifigant advantages? LOL! It is becomming more and more obvious that you only care about how the planes perform in relation to your P-47.
You contradict yourself, because your list of "to be perked" planes is neither "consistent" nor "fair".
"I believe that we are stuck having the perk system, lets use it. "
We are using it, if you haven't noticed. It was created to prevent certain "interesting" planes from dominating the MA, and it does a good job of it. It was NOT created to force a half-arsed RPS upon AH.
Once again--Why not use the ENY value to make "disadvantaged" planes more attractive? it clearly can work, as evided by the popularity of the Spit 5. I even go so far as to say that people who fly stuff like the P-47 DESERVE more points.
"I think this would be a great idea, thats all, nothing more."
I doubt that not at all--it would indeed be great for you. The unfortunate fact is, it would suck a** for a lot of others. As I said before--why not think of something that'll improve the game for you without destroying it for me?
Oh, and WOTAN suggests that perks are so easy to come by that this whole issue is moot. All I can say is he must either play a lot more than I do, or is a much better sim pilot than I am.
For me (and a LOT of others judging by perk plane usage statistics), perking an aircraft--even at 8 points--is effectively removing it from the game.
J_A_B
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You know, I think you just want to squeak for the sake of it. You have turned this into a piss and moan fest. Have at it. You seem to think this whole thought of min revolves around the P-47 for me, that is not true. You are entitled to your opinion, you have expressed it. I dont agree.
What is your in-game handle?
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My in-game ID is JAB00021
You will find I fly the P-51D, don't play too terribly much, and aren't that great a pilot. I especially suck at 1 vs 1, which isn't reflected in the stats.
Seriously, if you REALLY do want to improve usage of planes like the Jug, and aren't just frustrated at the nature of the AH planeset, why must you limit the options of others? Instead of forcing people into "disadvantaged" planes--which will just ruin the game for people who might not like those aircraft--why not give people an incentive to fly them, like a MASSIVE difference in ENY value?
J_A_B
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I'm not sure what would be the reason to perk those planes ?
Why should HTC perk 'em Ammo ?
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Let's see what planes HTC perked:
Ar-234: Fast bomber. Too fast for most of planes in AH.
Tempest: Fast,agile and powerful with 4*20mm Hispanos.
Ta-152: Fast @30k, Very rare bird in WW2.
F4U-1c: 4*Pulverizers with loads of ammo.
F4U-4: Fast as heck, lot's of power with nice gun-pack.
Me-262: Fast SOB with 4*30mm.
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P-51D: Nice guns, fast when flown straight and high.
Me-109 G-10: Fast, climbs like a homesick angel. Not too good armament.
La-7: Fast in low-med alts, good punch with 3*20mm.
Perk these and you need to perk all P-47's too. They're fast in high, have good range and Great guns with huge ammo-load and can carry nice bomb-load when needed.
hmm this had to be a troll... Good one Ammo!
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if all you fly is a p51d dont expect alot of perks.
is it unfair to you that any plane is perked?
thats what you sound like to me.
I like the perk idea much better then a rps. without either why would folks who rather not fly late war planes get involved in flying ah.
Your hostility at ammo is just there to mask your hostility at the perk system in general.
the f4u-1 is a great looking plane all but a hardcore few fly it same with the d11 and many others. Why is it in htc interest to model a stuka a spit mk1 or 109e3 or a early zeke if everyone flies 3 or 4 late war planes. There needs to be some balance.
p51 is a great plane I used to be in a squad that was p51 oriented. perk points are there for something and maybe by perking it it may get you out of that p51d and into that p51b.
If ya wanna real hoot grab a 205. You'll get perks in that plane.
All this is moot this is HT game I dunnae think he would perk a p51d :)
However I agree with ammo.
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Why? The idea with perkin is, either because the planes saw very little action or that they are so much better then the others that they need to be perked, wich is the same thing as "everybody flies them, arena unbalanced". That's the reason the F4uC got perked, everybody flew it (well not everybody but damn many) and it had somehting like 20% of all total kills.
You don't perk a plane just because it is fast, or because it has got good cannons, the ability to run does not make a plane good.
Sure, both LA7, P51D and 109D9 are fairly high up in the Kill ranking, 109 is a bit further down. But all these planes can be outmanuvered but slower ones. La7 kicks some serious arnold but only bellow 10k or so, Dora beast above 10k although it can run at all alts, same with P51. 109G10 is fast, good low speed handeling but damn poor high speed handeling wich makes it quite hard to B&Z in, a good pilot can definatly use this to his advantage vs the 109.
Many planes are FAR easier both to survive in and to kill in then some of teh above (109 especially) and because of that they should be perked? 109G10 saw ALOT of action, Dora and P51D so alot of action, don't know about LA7.
Don't perk them, instead, implant some more perks, P47M, Spit 14 maybe?
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So, ammo, all this thread and I'm still not sure.
Do you want the P-51D, the FW190D, the Bf109-G10 and the LA7 perked because they have the speed to dictate the fight? Or is it something else?
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Originally posted by Toad:
So, ammo, all this thread and I'm still not sure.
Do you want the P-51D, the FW190D, the Bf109-G10 and the LA7 perked because they have the speed to dictate the fight? Or is it something else?
Well partly, it's there speed and great capabilities that drive their usage. Its their usage and the sheer amount of them I see in the arena that prompted me to make this post. I see that it was not well met either. Didnt mean to step on your's or anyone else's toe's though :).
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Perhaps with the new bomber system in 1.09 the Jug can see more action. It could turn the Main Arena into something new. It could move the Altitude of furballs from 5K too 20K. Since the bombers will become around 40% off the total number of birds in the sky vs the 5-15% it is today. Then perhaps the Perking of an LA-7 or N1K2 would be meaningless? Since they dont realy have a good High alt Performnc. Since the bombers now, have too be stopped!
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Originally posted by -ammo-:
....Its their usage and the sheer amount of them I see in the arena that prompted me to make this post
So basically this is an argument in favor of perking planes that get used a lot?
If the customer base really likes to fly a particular plane and it is thus used a lot in the MA it should be perked?
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Originally posted by Toad:
So basically this is an argument in favor of perking planes that get used a lot?
If the customer base really likes to fly a particular plane and it is thus used a lot in the MA it should be perked?
Not neccesarily. The spitIX has over 18,000 kills as of day 22 of this tour..meaning it gets used alot. But I don't think it deserves a perk. I think it gets alot of use because it does well in furballs and is pretty forgiving to fly. But it can't dictate the fight. It doesn't have the speed.
Do you think that if the ME262 were unperked, would be a pretty popular ride with the customer base in the MA? Would you advocate it as a perk?
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you know the funny thing here?...that he has included NO P-47 in that list. Even when he's got two latewar ones to toy with ;).
If your standard for perking is historical introduction dates, you must put two P47s in that group too ;).
If your standard for perking is usage, no reason to perk the planes you've mentioned.
If your standard for perking is WWII rarity, no reason to perk the planes you've mentioned.
If your standard for perking is the plane performance, then please start by unperking the TA152, or lowering its value under that of a La7 :D
FWIW, I sincerely think that any plane introduced after February'44 should be perked. That includes the Dora, the 109G10, the P51D,P47D25, P47D30, La7, Yak9u, etc. The latewar monsters in the MA would be way more rare than what they are now.
I wont perk the P51B, tho, and there would still be an uber-fast plane for people to jump in. But, see, what I would like as standard for perking planes would be mainly historical introduction dates. I know is not going to happen anyway, because the standards used right now are:
1- Non-perked plane would be overused in the arena (Tempest, C-hog, Spit XIV when it comes...)
2- Historical rarity (Ar234, Ta-152)
and then is the Me262 wich is perked because performance. Rightly so, the 262 should be the ONLY plane perked because performance. (as I dont think He162, P80 or Meteor have a place in AH)
That just IMO, of course.
[ 11-22-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]
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Ok, so now the thesis is that a fast plane that can dictate the fight and is popular (used a lot by the player base) should be perked?
Not trying to rag you, just trying to fully understand your position.
As for the 262, I'm on record for ever and ever on this board as viewing the whole perk system as unnecessary.
I don't care what anyone flies. If EVERYONE was in a 262, I'd still kill the ones that fly it incorrectly in my P-51 or C-205 or whatever. It would change the game from what it is of course.. but I simply don't worry about what the other guy is flying. I concentrate on flying mine to the best of my ability, trying to stay alive and getting what kills I can.
Besides, I don't think that even unperked EVERYONE would fly the 262. Perked, most 262's are flown correctly and they are a tough kill.
More of them unperked? Sure. Lots more flown incorrectly than correctly and thus perhaps easier kills on them overall.
But then I was never worried about the DREADED C-HOG PROBLEM!!!!! either. I killed lots and lots of those. :D
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Toad,
I agree with you that the aircraft proposed for perking in this thread should not be perked, however I think you are mistaken when you attribute some people's desire to have certain aircraft perked to their (supposed) inability to, or difficulty in, killing them.
Many people who want these aircraft perked, and many who wanted the F4U-1C perked, have no trouble killing them, they simply see a better game if they were more "controled".
In many cases they are not much less altruistic than you "Fly what you want, let the other guy fly what he wants" take on it. In other words, many of them want what they see as best for the game, not what is particularly best for them.
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Originally posted by Karnak:
, however I think you are mistaken when you attribute some people's desire to have certain aircraft perked to their (supposed) inability to, or difficulty in, killing them.
With all due respect, I don't think I said that. If it was taken that way, I didn't write clearly enough. My apologies.
I viewed C-Hogs as pretty easy kills, true. You just had to keep them from getting guns on you and that dictated your flying style. So, seeing a bunch didn't bother me because what the other guy flies is HIS choice, not mine. Just another target to me, this one was blue.
Interestingly, some of the most vocal complaints about the C-Hog were that "now you only fight one or two types of aircraft in the MA". The irony is that this was often voiced by proponents of the CA, where you'd ALWAYS be fighting only one or two types of aircraft. :)
In other words, many of them want what they see as best for the game, not what is particularly best for them.
That's fine with me too. Constructive criticism improves the game. However, one always has to bear in mind that what one wants as "best for the game" may not be what the vast majority of players desires. The majority may not agree at all.
I think the Combat Arena is a perfect example. Since day one there's been a hue and cry for many of the things embodied in the CA. Yet once established, it turned out to be a ghost town. While it had many of the elements that folks had been crying for, it didn't have what EACH INDIVIDUAL felt was best. In short, it pleased no one because it tried to please a few.
Simply put, the majority of the players like the MA far, far more than the CA. A hard pill to swallow, I expect, when one finds out the unwashed majority doesn't agree with your particular goals. Perhaps the CA can be tweaked and altered to make it more popular but I doubt it will ever approach the popularity of the MA. Once again, I think HTC knows its market.
I am opposed to this "perk popularity" idea, however. If HTC introduces an aircraft lots of players really like for sentimentality, performance, sex appeal.. whatever.. why should other players complain? It's the individual's $15.
As the planset gets larger and larger in the years to come, I think this will be less and less of a problem. There's lots of good aircraft yet to be modeled.
Sooner or later though, I think HTC will have to find a way to allow early war, mid-war and late war to coexist a little more rationally. It may be separate arenas; I don't have the answer. But I trust HTC to find one. ;)
My bottom line is simple and it's in my sig.
Cyas up there!
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Wotan, those in yer squad are almost all vets of AH. Sure, 4 perks aint much for you. I get an avg of 8-12 perks a mission in my 38.
Yet, 4 perks is like 8 perks for chog. Those who want to fly it can pay it without much problem.
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IMHO perks are not related to skill. but to eny value and plane types.
Look the only reason I agree with ammo is because theres only so many more late birds left and a whole group of mid and early birds that a lot of folks want to see.
Sure guys with skill can kill in anything and in general I hate the idea that some would be forced into flying something he doesn't want to.
We have seen a trend in here that a good heap of folks fly what they can kill in first. This wont change with adding perks. but the difference in performance wont be as great.
Its an easy thing from my point of view to agree with ammo because I have flown most of those planes with regularity (except the la7) and see how easy they are to kill even with my limited skills.
also with the growth of the planeset and more folks in the game we see a lot more variety in the main.
but there are good planes ignored and if there are to be more early birds then what point is it in developing them if they are never used.
Scenarios are fun and all but doesn't it take as much time to develope a p47n as a spit mk1.
Fly what you like. Like what you fly. Don't worry about what the other guy flies. It's a game!
thats sounds good but the reality is (as demonstrated by the chog at the extreme) no one whether they enjoy or are interested in flying an early warbird is going to do it regularly in an arena of late war speed demons.
My personal preference would be that perks are spread out through out the entire planeset. reset us all to zero make available a few unperked planes and go at it only to reset them at the end of the tour. This is unfair and I dont believe it could werk but none-the-less I like it.
Also I wish given the current state that perk points were reset evey so often (end of tour or when ever). I know guys that have over 5000 perks and have no use for umm but if they did they could fly perks till the guys come home.
Im 25 and 2 in a 262 but I've augered I think 8 of them that arent recorded in the kill stats and still have 2300 fighter perks.
RPS sucks arse.
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What's wrong with the perk system as it is? Leave it alone. Next thing you know you'll want to perk my 190A8 because it rolls too fast.
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Instead of asking to perk the planes you get shot down by learn to fly better.
Perk system is fine the way it is, leave it alone.
"If it ain't broke don't fix it"
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jpeg that a ignorrant assumption go check the stats for the guys suggesting an expansion of the perk system.
You would have been better not posting at all.
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ROTFL that anyone would want to perk the P51D. It doesn't turn, it's slower than a Typh, La7 and D9 on the deck and most runstang drivers don't stay to fight with them, they just run away at the first sign of trouble.
Hands up who thinks that the P51D is unbalancing the MA?
I think the basis of Ammo's post is that he just wants to see less of the planes that give his ride trouble. :rolleyes:
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Yep, it looks like Blue Mako really hit the nail on the head there. Are you psychic? You should go to work for Miss Cleo.
Ammo vs. P51D.
Tour 22 (so far)-ammo has 39 kills and has been killed 8 times against the P-51D.
And I don't even know the story behind the 8 deaths, but I'd wager at least 6 of them were either a gangbang or a P-51 getting credit for finishing him off.
Tour 21-ammo has 40 kills and has been killed 12 times against the P-51D.
Thoseare just the last two, doesn't look like he flew very often the month before, he was 9 and 5.
Oh, and for the record, I AGREE with him, so...
Tour 22-Urchin has 25 kills and has been killed 4 times against the P-51D.
Tour 21-Urchin has 32 kills and has been killed 11 times against the P-51D.
Tour 20-Urchin has 32 kills and has been killed 9 times against the P-51D.
So, if we add our stats together... for the past 3 months, ammo and I are 177 kills to 49 deaths. About 3.5 to 1. While that isn't heartstopping, I'd hardly say we are looking to get rid of planes that we have trouble killing.
I hear Miss Cleo calling you, why dontcha see if she'll offer you a job?
EDIT: Hum, I DO believe I have found a possible reason why Blue Mako would be against such a change. Watch closely, Watson, while I uncover this scoundrels motivation.
Tour 22- bluemako has 204 kills and has been killed 50 times.
bluemako has 79 kills and has been killed 20 times in the P-51D.
<If the plane sucks so bad... how'd you do so well in it if I may ask?>
bluemako has 46 kills and has been killed 15 times in the Typhoon IB.
bluemako has 26 kills and has been killed 8 times in the La-7.
Blue Mako also has 6 kills between the F4U and the Tempest.
So, now it is clear why Blue Mako would be an upset little virtual pilot if HTC took Ammo's suggestion. All the planes that he knows how to fly would be perked!
:eek:
By the way Blue Mako... it is OK to say "No, this is a bad idea. I ONLY fly the La-7, P-51D, and the Tiffie, I wouldn't know what else to fly if those planes got perked". We wouldn't hold you in any less esteem, honest. Be straightforward, say what you mean, and mean what you say. Honesty is almost always the best policy.
[ 11-22-2001: Message edited by: Urchin ]
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The P-51 and 190D-9 can dictate the fight?
Only sometimes. I assure you, a Spitfire will DEFINATELY dictate the fight if it finds either of the above planes lower/slower. All they can do is TRY to run.
By the logic of a plane's ability to "dictate" a fight, the Spit and N1K2 should both unquestionably be perked, because they dominate virtually any co alt/co E situation versus almost the entire AH planeset. There are only a very few planes that do NOT go defensive when confronted with a spit or N1K2 of equal E state. The only truly effective way to kill these planes is to either gang them or start with alt advantage (unless your an Uber AH ace).
Perhaps ALT is what needs to be perked, because in either case the higher plane is the one that dominates.
Although Ammo has a good record versus LA7's, P-51's and Doras, I think he remembers (and hates) the one that catches and kills him much more than he remembers the 3 or 4 he just wasted. I certainly remember the Uber spit that kills me more than I remember the not-so-uber spit that I just shot down.
I still fail to understand why ENY manipulation is not a perfectly good motivation to have people try "disadvantaged" planes on its own, without having to take away others' fun. I also didn't know the perk system had mutated into a sort of half-baked RPS.
J_A_B
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Crank up some of these eny values on the lower end planes and you will see usage I guarantee it.
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I actually think that ENY manipulation is a very viable tactic, but it is one that HTC seems loathe to do. The ENY values on every plane have stayed the same since I began playing in April (if I recall correctly anyway).
Besides, how often would the ENY value change? What would determine the ENY value to begin with, and subsequently? The planes usage? The planes K/D? The planes potential "ability"? Hell, we don't even know NOW what HTC bases the ENY values on, so how are we to know what would be a viable alternative to the values now?
However, that said... many of the people that would like to see the usage for certain planes decrease don't NEED any more perk points, so increasing the ENY value of their ride would be a fairly pointless endeavour. Also, I think most people that fly the most popular planes don't really care about perk points either, they just want to hop in their normal ride and get kills. They aren't trying to save up points to get into a perk plane (besides which, the only perk planes that have "ability" that even remotely approaches their perk cost are the Me-262 and the F4U-1c), so why will further inhibiting their perk point gathering decrease their usage of a particular plane?
But again, with that said, I agree with Karnak that there does seem to be a lot more variety to the MA than their was 6 months ago (with the C-Hog craze) and even 2 months ago (before they "nerfed" the N1K2). So I'm honestly not sure that anything needs to be done at all.
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It just don't see any of the planes on this list as being a major impact on gameplay in the MA. Actually... I don't see any of the unperked aircraft as having the potential to be unballancing in the MA.
Seems to me there needs to be a better motive than "their strengths are different and that makes me think they're unfair".
The P-51 turns like crap. Its ONLY strenght is its speed. Hell... its main apeal is its looks. Other than that, it ain't got much going for it. Damn.. the dora doesn't even have looks.
BnZ guys are always going to BnZ no matter what you put them in. They'll always have the speed advantage simply because of flying style. It makes zero difference what you put them in.
Please remember that anything you perk is someone's favorite ride. That means you need a tad bit of justification for perking it. The MA is mostly TnB low alt people goofing around... they've picked their poison. Its not unfair that others chose a different road. Its something called diversity.
AKDejaVu
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LOL at Urchin.
I never said Ammo couldn't kill them, I said he didn't want to see all of those planes that are difficult to kill.
And yes, you are right, I do have a vested interest in keeping the Pony, La7 and Typh unperked. I choose to fly these planes because
1) I am in a P51D squad.
2) I like flying fast planes.
I do okay in them but did you happen to note the last set of stats Deja put up?
For Tour 21:
P51D %kills=8.81 K/D=1.012
Typh %kills=3.64 K/D=1.231
La7 %kills=7.16 K/D=1.083
All of these aircraft had a K/D of around 1 and none of them were at the top of the % kills list, the Spit IX was (ok P51D was 2nd).
The pony is a difficult aircraft to fly well and keep a good K/D in. I know this from experience. I know that many who fly it don't chance furballing it so they run from a fight and this leads to frustration for many (hence runstang). How is it so uber if it can only maintain a 1 K/D even if so many people flying it have much higher K/D's? (Midnight my CO has 106/18 in the P51D atm, my stats are pretty ordinary compared to that) That's why I DON'T think that the P51 is an unbalancing aircraft.
And THAT is what the perk system is for, to keep a particular aircraft from unbalancing the MA. Not to get rid of a plane because it is fast or has cannons or can turn well etc. Sure there are a lot of people who like the P51, that is because it is a great plane but uber? Not hardly.
If you want to label a plane as unbalancing, it should be the Spit IX. It had the most kills last tour. Therefore it must be the most used plane (btw I certainly see more spits than I do P51s).
P.S. If I'm such a bad pilot do we have to perk every plane I have gotten kills in? Lemme see, that would have to include the F4U-1, La5, B26, P51B, P38, Il2, Lanc, B17, Mossie, Seafire... ;)
P.P.S. Urchin, shame on you trying to lump my 4 kills in the F4U-1D with the 2 I got in the Tempest. LOL.
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Other than seeing Ammo state the planes HE wants to perk are fast and can dictate the fight. Does that mean we should just perk planes who can dicate the fight? From where I sit it sounds like the way it was in real life. Later planes DID dictate the fight as well as superior numbers from the allies and dwindling experianced pilots for the axis.
Now here we have a game that many call a sim, (not me btw). They like the "realism" factor and want planes modeled as close to "real" as possible. Please ignore for the time being that almost NO ONE flies them as they were flown in real life in this GAME. Now if we restrict the planes that Ammo listed there goes the "realism". There is no reason to even think this is anything but an arcade game. The only real solution in that caase is to make all planes fly the same way. In that manner everyone can fly what they want and have absolutely no advantage over anyone else. We'd all be flying a (insert you plane of choice here) and just looking at the skins as eye candy. Now that would be "fair" but highly inaccurate. IMO it would also alienate a significant portion of HTC's player base aka funding.
Ammo, the only way you are going to get what you want in the current game is to fly H2H and dictate what other players can fly. You can also develope your own game and dictate the rules there. If you are going to "dicate" the rides players can fly why should they stay here?
In my case I belong to a 51 squad. I also do not fly any significant amount of time by ANY stretch of the imagination. You want to dictate my ride be perked because YOU want it that way. You have just removed much of my squad from the game. Why should we play the game that makes even further restrictions on what we can fly?
Some say players should "get better" to earn those perks. Fine, if this game is a significant part of your life. It is to me, however just a game that I have to pay for. The value drops considerably if much of the planes are perked. I will not be able to spend enough time to "get good" as I am more concerned with real life considerations. Why should I and several others pay to play a game that restricts what you can fly? I fly for fun, the stats in this game have absolutely no meaning for me. I couldn't care less who is top game player here. The "score" has zero meaning outside of the game so why consider it important?
Toad said it best, fly what YOU want and IGNORE the other players choices. From your K/D ratio it seems you really don't have a problem with the planes you mentioned. Other than your personal prejudice there is no reason to restrict planes from players. I am not being sarcastic here just stating you have no factual rationale to back your perk request so it must be personal choice on your part, ergo prejudice. You don't like seeing them flown so you want to restrict others from using them.
Finally let me reiterate, I also am against the perk system. I don't like being told I can't fly what I want when I want after paying my monthly fee. It's not my choice but it's not my game or livelyhood either.
(http://www.13thtas.com/mav13sig.jpg)
[ 11-22-2001: Message edited by: Maverick ]
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Ditto to most of what Mav said. He's better at explaining it than I was. :)
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Urchin,
Pyro was on the last night and said that ENY values would be adjusted at the start of the next tour.
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I am a very average pilot in the 51, or any other plane for that matter, but I'm putting in my two bits worth anyway.
P51D has only one strength in my opinion, It is a great plane for b&z. Other than a few guys who are great in anything, you just can't squeeze this thing into a perk catagorie no how.
There are planes and pilots in AH that can make any one of the planes in ammo's list look very average.
Any fighter plane in AH flown with b&z tactics could achieve the same results as the 51D.
Sax
13th Tas
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
The P-51 turns like crap. Its ONLY strenght is its speed. Hell... its main apeal is its looks. Other than that, it ain't got much going for it. Damn.. the dora doesn't even have looks.
AKDejaVu
DejaVu:
Get lost :D
(p.s. The Fw190D9 is the best looking fighter EVER :))
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"p.s. The Fw190D9 is the best looking fighter EVER "
Drunk again RAM??? :p
J_A_B
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Please note this, Whatever HTC does or does not do with the perk system, I will still enjoy myself in this sim. And you will not see me throwing a tantrum on this BBS or in the game. It was just a suggestion.
Personally, I think the Pony, G10 and the Dora are the 3 most survivable prop fighters in the game. The LA7 is in that category also, but it is limited to lower altitudes. Sax, you say that any fighter plane in the game could achieve the same results as the P-51 would (or any of the fighters I mentioned). That just isn't true. Not all the fighters have the same capabilities.
mav said--- Ammo, the only way you are going to get what you want in the current game is to fly H2H and dictate what other players can fly. You can also develope your own game and dictate the rules there. If you are going to "dicate" the rides players can fly why should they stay here?
Man if nothing changes in the game, I will still be shooting down AC and dieing with a smile on my face. I dont want to "dictate" anything.
It also seems to me that if HTC took my suggestion, there would be an enourmous uproar in this community, at least the vocal ones that frequent this BBS. I dont think they want that. It is ironic that it was the same enourmous uproar about the F4U-1C that got it perked. Not nessecarily the same people of course.
Blue mako said--- I never said Ammo couldn't kill them, I said he didn't want to see all of those planes that are difficult to kill.
That isnt it at all. I DO NOT fly the most UBER AC in the arena and I do not want to dominate it. This seem to be the same train of thought with JAB and others I am sure. I am competitive in nature, but I dont lose sleep over getting beat. I still throw a salute and smile and get right back up. I do get aggrevated at myself for making mistakes. I go looking for the hardest to kill FIRST, and I really like facing a really good pilot. Ask Fester :) I may not beat 'em, but I am gonna get after them. The only reason I say all this is for those of you that think I have selfish motives. That is not my intent. As a matter of fact, Using hindsight, I doubt I would have brought this up in this forum.
Thx Urchin, Wotan, and others that defended me :)
[ 11-23-2001: Message edited by: -ammo- ]
[ 11-23-2001: Message edited by: -ammo- ]
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Don't thik your motives are the least bit selfish ammo.
And I said any plane flown as b&z, with the right pilot could achieve same results as the 51D.
This is a interesting and entertaining topic ammo. But i'll tell you what, take the 51 into a furball full of spits,F6F's and so on.
After you do that say 20 times, tell us your honest opinion.
Sax
13th Tas
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Originally posted by sax:
Don't thik your motives are the least bit selfish ammo.
And I said any plane flown as b&z, with the right pilot could achieve same results as the 51D.
This is a interesting and entertaining topic ammo. But i'll tell you what, take the 51 into a furball full of spits,F6F's and so on.
After you do that say 20 times, tell us your honest opinion.
Sax
13th Tas
I did last night a few sorties. At 49 and south of there I think i danced with a couple of your guys. The trick is to set up your pass so you dont have to slow down. Just dive, attack, and speed out the other side of the furball and recover your alt. Course, there will sometimes be this guy high that you dont see, he can very much ruin your day if you cant extend enough. Somethimes ya get caught, but if you are really miserly with your energy, the pony can keep you safe.
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nah make the f4u4 and tempest cheaper.
never see em in the air.
even the 262 is overpriced :)
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Originally posted by Citabria:
nah make the f4u4 and tempest cheaper.
never see em in the air.
even the 262 is overpriced :)
I agree with that, and the TA152. Well...except for the 262. I think its current price is about right :)
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so saying that ammo, we agree that the 51 is great for bouncing only. Hard to say it can dictate a fight by constantly zooming straight through the the other side.
Sax
13th Tas
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Make all planes that are late war models and that have EARLIER VERSION in the game be cheap (4) perks.
Really, when was the last time you saw more than 1 la5, p51B the same day?
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Really, when was the last time you saw more than 1 la5, p51B the same day?
How many are you supposed to see? Are there not supposed to be any seldomely used planes? Really? So every plane must stand an equal chance of being used. Hmmmm.. ok.
When was the last time you saw two perk planes in the same day? What is it this thread was suggesting again? Oh yea... perk even more aircraft.
AKDejaVu
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This thread makes me so happy I just want to SING!
"Perk 'em all!
Perk 'em all!
The large and the fast and the small.
Perk all the Nikkis and C-Hogs in blue,
Perk anything that can shoot back at you!
`cause they're asking to just perk 'em all
As back to their Squadrons they crawl,
There'll be constant crying
as long as they're dying,
So cheer up, my lads,
Perk 'em all!
Nobody knows if the FM's are true,
So cheer up, my lads,
Perk 'em all!"
:D
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Ammo's numbers are irrelevant. Ammo is an exception to the mass in the MA. Ammo's choice of planes, and his performance are not typical of the norm. Ergo, his performance and record should not be used to determine the perk system.
Urchin singled out BlueMako and checked his stats and aircraft standings. Mako belongs to a squad that uses primarily the P51D. Given that fact it should be understood that he would be upset that anyone suggest it be perked. That would mean he was spending perkies everytime he flew.
I have gone through extensive studies of this perk system. I know what planes give the best perks, and I can tell you that removing the P51, FW190D-9, Bf 109 g10, and La7 will leave one ride that will milk perks. The P47. There are planes that give better perks, but you won't get more perks per sortie than the P47 will. No two ways about it.
Yes, the P47 returns more perks than any of the above aircraft, even now. Let's test that out.
P47-D25 kills Me262 : 31/5 = 6.2 perks
P47-D30 kills Me262 : 29/5 = 5.8 perks
109 G10 kills Me262 : 22/5 = 4.4 perks
P47-D11 kills Me262 : 18/5 = 3.6 perks
P51D kills Me262 : 18/5 = 3.6 perks
FW190-D9 kills Me262 : 18/5 = 3.6 perks
La7 kills Me262 : 15/5 = 3 perks
This is indicative of a single kill only. The ammo load on the P47 allows for it to carry home several kills every sortie. Now, true, you won't be killing several Me262's, but let's test out the perk system another way. Let's say ammo flies the D30 and hunts only P51D's, and he lands 1.75 kills every sortie (his current average). So, (31/18)*1.75 = 3.01 perks every sortie. Now, since I was one of the P51's that killed him I know he doesn't always fly the Jug, but you can see where this would benefit him. That A6M will be your undoing, ammo ;) By sticking to the P47 and taking home more kills per sortie you'll get the perks you seek, and be ahead of everyone that has to 'buy' their ride.
Should the airplanes named be removed, another would only come to the forefront.
HT and Pyro have this figured out very well. They have to have a plane base from which to determine a reward system. It is given that some planes initially released as perk rides may not, in truth, be worthy of that status. The ENY's are calculated carefully, and I don't believe they have all remained the same, but I think they haven't changed much. That implies considerable thought has gone into the perk system as it stands.
Don't mess with it!
I don't for a minute think ammo is being selfish in his suggestion. Ammo is talented and may consider it more balancing for players like him if the system were modified in the suggested way. On the whole, however, players are not so skilled.
Finally, we keep hearing references to WWII and the time frame of aircraft introduction. Of what relevance does this have for this game? I submit that it is irrelevant. If, you would only think of the aircraft available as tools in a drawer and select the tool best suited for the current situation at hand (during game play), then you would see more logic in the extent of selection.
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ammo gets 1.7550 kills per
whos to say he did that using up all his ammo in a p47 and rtbing he could of easily killed 2 rtb rearmed upped again and repeated this over and over to achieve the same thing no matter what plane.
So if a guy that flies a late war plane with a lo eny value should find his ride perked at 8 what would happen is he would go to a plane with a high eny value learn to fly it and get kills. He would also be more likely to forego the suicidal nature of the main to rtb to get the most out of his sorties. He would in turn be more likely fly his favorite plane less recklessly. And his K/d would go up.
Its onething to say no I wanna fly what I want, which is perfectly reasonable. But to say that anyone who believes the expansion of the perk set is a selfish score potato who only advocates perking those planes which he has trouble with or that he would exclude his own fav ride to ensure more perks for himself is rediculous.
I'm 12 and 1 in a 205 a had a run of 9 and 1 mostly nikis and spits and gotta toejame load of perks. If your worried about getting perk points then you will do what ya need to get umm.
Is this unfair maybe so but the entire "perk system" aint fair but it makes for better gameplay. It sure beats the hell out of an rps.
In an arena of late war monsters and 5-8 plannes make up 60 % of the kills why even develope an early war planeset. For scenarios? well even if we have umm every three months the majority of the planes yet to be modelled will ineffective in the main except to a hardcore few.
You say you should be able to fly whatever plane you want 8 perks isnt going to stop that. You say you dont wanna be forced to fly another plane just to earn the perks to fly your fav. But is it fair if a guy that likes to fly early birds is forced to fly late war birds to be competitive?
he pays 15 bucks tooo
Those that say "well the only thing a 51 has is speed" well no toejame what else do ya need in the main? Thats the same with the g10 d9 and la7.
We disagree about this in my squad but we dont attack each others motives.
I dont think it will happen but its a good idea...............
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"When was the last time you saw two perk planes in the same day"
I see about 8 to 10 perk rides every day larry. Just last night I bagged an arado and an F4U-4 in my me262 :D
Ta152's I see every now and then, they are the most common of the perkrides out there imo.
I have only seen ONE tempest though. Maybe the La7's have been cutting into their birthrate. ;)
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Yeah, why not just perk every plane except F6F-5, Hurricane, 109F-4, C202, A6M5 and LA-5 (every country has one non-perk plane). When opening account, you have certain amount of perks, if you run out of them, you can fly non-perk to get perk enough to fly your favourite or there also should be other ways to get fighter perks like:
- supply missions
- drive the train (lol)
- strat bombing should give you fighter perks too
- <put here you idea>
No?
-vector
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414 RCAF THE BLACK KNIGHTS
"Totis Viribus-With All Our Might"
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"You say you should be able to fly whatever plane you want 8 perks isnt going to stop that. "
Speak for yourself Wotan. Judging by perk plane usage in the MA, perking a plane might as well remove it from the game--perk planes are at best uncommon.
Perk my favorite ride and I'm not going to waste what little online time I have flying some stupid POS I don't even like just to "earn" the right to fly the plane of my choice. I'll just quit AH and go elsewhere.
The guys who like 109F's and Spit 5's and such can fly their plane of choice whenever they want--nobody's stopping them. Hell, they even get a points BONUS for flying them! If they don't fly "their" plane because it's "not good enough" for the MA, then they're not really all that interested in it. I still fly the 51D although it pretty much sucks arse against things like 51B's, LA7's and anything COALT. I'd be flying it in an arena with unperked 262's.
The whole argument of "Take away the fast planes" is still stupid, because if you DO take away the fastest planes you just end up with a different group of fastest unperked planes. With the LA7, P-51, Dora gone planes like the LA5 and YAK and 190A8 will become the runners of the arena. Will you end up perking those too solely on the basis of their speed? Where does it stop? If a plane is faster, you shouldn't whine if it uses that to its advantage. That's as lame as whining about a Zero out-turning you.
In the end, if you choose to fly a plane that isn't the fastest, you should expect to meet up with something that'll outrun you sometime. Just as someone who flies a poor-turning plane will eventually end up low and slow with a Zeke on his 6.
No matter how I look at this argument, it still degenerates into "perk it because its better than MY plane".
J_A_B
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Like J_A_B said, there is always going to be a faster plane. Perk the planes Ammo wants, and then the BnZ crowd will just go to F4U-1's, P-51B's, Fw190A8's, and the Yak-9U.
Ok. Perk them too. Oh wait, now there is just another set of "fastest" planes. Perk them too.
Whoooo Hoooooo !!! Now we're all flying Spit IX's and N1K2's.
Sorry Ammo, we've known each other a long time. But I do gotta agree that this is the old "Its better than my favorite ride, so I want it Nerfed/Porked/Perked arguement."