Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Buzzbait on September 02, 2001, 01:32:00 PM
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S!
I was flying Bish in the MA yesterday for only the second time since I came back. I started off flying a Spit V and had fun as last ditch CAP at A19 as the Rooks were swarming it, then after it fell, switched to a 190D.
I was running interference on the stream of Rook aircraft crossing the gulf to the remaining Bish fields when I noticed the following:
Spotted a N1k2 at about 15k, a little above me me. He wanted a HO, which I avoided by rolling, then he turned onto my tail and was there about 1.7 distance. He then sprayed off a good deal of his ammo from that range up till about 2.5. Obviously a newbie, but I wasn't going to fight him co-alt. I spotted another contact ahead and about 5k below which I knew must be a Rook since the little red dot told me so. (so easy in the MA compared with the CT :) )
I dropped down 6k, to below the dot, accelerating to 450+ mph. The N1k2 dived with me, but was rapidly falling behind.
The aircraft ahead unfortunately spotted me at the last moment, (was a Ki61) and pulled a hard turn to avoid me. I kept going obviously because of the N1k2 behind which was still following.
I was continuing to outdistance the N1k2. Distances were going 3.1, 3.2, 3.3, etc. It was now level with me. I figured I was doing at least 50mph faster.
At 3.8 distance I thought I'd try to sucker the N1k2 into following me in a high zoom, then when it stalled out, I'd hammerhead down on him and kill him. The 190D9 has a better climb at 10k, historically had a better zoom, plus I had a lot more speed.
So I pulled up. Gradually at first so the N1k2 would follow my arc and couldn't cut across the circle. The N1k2 followed me almost exactly.
By the time I reached vertical, the distance is starting to narrow.
1.9, 1.8... I'm still confident he will never be able to stay with me.
1.2, 1.1, 1.0...
I'm starting to slow down.
.9, .8, .7...
I roll a little left and right to avoid his gunfire. I'm practically in a stall
.6, .5...
The N1k2 is still gaining.
With my speedo showing around 70mph airspeed, I desperately hammerhead and watch as the N1k2 gracefully zooms past, seeming to have lots of energy left. It lazily flicks over after me and starts a pursuit.
Now luckily this guy was a lousy shot and despite spraying the air around me right out to 2.5 again, couldn't get a hit.
But does anyone think this is an accurate representation of an aircraft's flight model?
Where does the N1k2 get this zoom from?
Sorry I don't have a film of this.
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known bug,will be fixed in 1.08
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I'd love to see film of it, just to see if he cut across your "circle" zoom. But yes, it generally isn't a good idea to try to rope-a-dope N1K2s that are going faster than 200 mph or so. But then again, the chasing plane in any situation is going to close on a rope, it is just a matter of how close he comes.
I think Pyro said they'll be looking at the E-retention of the N1K2 for next version, but I wouldn't get your hopes up.
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Urchin,
Did you read your signature recently?
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Yea, look up the kill stats- it is there for a reason :).
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I remember when I was long time ago flying N1K2, I couldn't spin it at all.
I took off from a field where was high N1K coming, I climbed and he attacked, I avoided, waiting him to slow down a bit and make mistake so I can gain a position behind him.
At one occasion I lost totally directional sense for few seconds (after blackout and pull up).
When I become aware of direction, I noticed I had gone nearly directly up for few seconds.
speed was about 50mph, but yet I was able to maneuver the plane and not even hear stall warnings.
There I got also behind the enemy plane and with slower speed I managed to follow him in his maneuvers and when he made a loop later, I was able to just float inside his loop and then pull the nose over as he was heading down from the loop and I got behind him, short after shooting him down.
After then I thought to myself that N1K2 must be have some anti-gravity technology since it can do such things.
I was just amazed.
(for such heavy plane as it is in comparison to Zeke, it still feels lighter than Zeke to fly)
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damn and I thought I was the only one that was experiencing close encounters of the 3rd kind & waking up with no recollection (film) but with several 20mm anal probes firmly installed.
We need to form a support group! *urgh*
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If you pulled vertical with him still 2k behind you, that leaves a lot for him to cut in pursuit.
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I`ll Join whatever anit-NIKI association will be joined!!
I hate the damn thing, and think;
When HT has scratched his head as much as he apparently have to create this wonderful game, how come one A/C is so apparently overmodeled that it tops every one list of kill ratios?? I say perk the devilish thing like u did the C-Hog!!
gogogogo-perk-the-sunnofasqueak...
/Stomp out/
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It's like juggling...
You throw one ball up, when it's at the top of it's *zoom*, you throw the other ball up. Does the second ball go any higher than the first one? Not really, but it's going up when the first one is coming down.
[ 09-02-2001: Message edited by: wells ]
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Look out, he's using physics to distract you! Don't fall for it! ;)
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Why don't you guys whine like this when Fw190s, P-51s, La-7s and Tiffies cut your coner and kill you?
Do you all just jump on the popular bandwhine and check your brain at the door?
There are serveral valid ways that the N1K2 could have done what it did, but all I see is a chorus of "Yeah, Nikis are UFOS!"
Once again the N1K2 has done the impossible and been unfilmable.
Why has there NEVER been a film of an N1K2 doing one of these manuvers?
I'll tell you why, because N1K2s aren't doing the UFO manuvers that people are claiming.
Basically there are a bunch of whiners looking for excuses when they get shot down by a popular plane.
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Karnak,
I never film because I either a) forget it b) be afraid that it'll degrade my performance :>
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I have at least 5 films of this kind of thing,will go through films and email em to whoever wants em,my fav N1K move,not(don't fly it,have filmed this a lot) happens when you duck a HO,i was travelling at approx 350mph in spit9,level,N1K was co alt,heading towards me at his best speed,(estimated at least 330,he shallow dived to et co-alt) we get to d600,i make SMOOTH swoop under him,level,have 340 on speedo,look out back window,N1K pulls a 180 turn to my 6,NP i think,he finishes turn at d800 and starts pulling distance in at a ridiculous rate,i have not deviated flightpath,still doing 330,N1K pulls up to 500 and blows me away,this can't be right......as u watch it u realise that there is no way a prop aircraft could turn this hard and accelerate so fast :(.
Steely
Looking for film now,will look all day if i have to,<S> to all,karnak will mail u if you like... :)
Steely out
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He dove down to you, but you estimated your speed higher than his? I think that begins to explain a bit of the inexplicable.
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sigh,...it's only a game kids
Tronsky
486 Sqn (NZ),"Hiwa hau Maka"
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try this one fatty,
Ki61 at 200mph. N1k 5k above me.
N1k dives and comes at me at a tremendous rate.. I watch him coming in on my hi 6 till he at d700 , I turn HARD left, my speed drops to near stall while doing a very tight turn with rudder. Watching the n1k go through it, it went a bit below my tail (less than 600ft below tail id say, I could see him thru the 6 view), banked in the same direction of my turn and turned INSIDE my turn circle. He got me with a lead shot while it closed at an obscene rate (I was still turning and watching goggle eyed).
He had to be at least twice as fast or more to close in that quickly, and not only did it pull UP from a dive in a dime, he also turned inside a slower plane that was pulling a tight turn and still having good speed. Id love to hear an explanation on that one.
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S!
Ok Naysayers:
First of all, in initial head to head, he was maybe 500ft above me. Not enough to be a factor, especially since he lost that advantage when he turned to follow while I continued straight.
2nd point, he didn't cut the corner. Like I said in my first post, I didn't go vertical right away. I started off by going into a gradual climb, which he followed, then gradually steepened it to the vertical. He wasn't cutting across the corner at all. At the point I went completely vertical, he was directly on my six, below at approx. 1.9. Everything else after that was vertical, with him being able to hold the zoom and gain on me despite as I mentioned, the 190 having better speed at the start of the process, and also "theoretically", having a better climb at the altitude we were at, which was 10,000 ft.
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If it went below your tail, he's already outside your turn circle. You imply he somehow looped and caught back up to you while you were at stall. Where is the impossibility in that? A simple clean, wide flat turn will accomplish that.
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Buzz, unless he was directly under you (in other words unless he went completely vertical before you did), he cut the corner.
Sounds a lot like he stalled out as well. Two planes go into a climb, the second one cutting the corner (if slightly). They both stall out at the top, the second one too badly to get a clean shot.
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Buzz, they are going to make changes, what they will fix I do not know.
A extending Dora with a nik following is certain death for him if you set him up. Ill post films...the Dora is only afraid of the LA7. It can do all you describe, and a bit more.
Im just waiting for Tac to invent a new gay term for the LA7 when his fixation with the N1K2 dies in 4 years.
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ROFL Juzz :)
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Think Shaw's book has speed differences somewhere in it which shows how much speed advantage the lead plane has to have to stay out of reach of the trailing plane. You might be surprised.
I'll take a peek and see what I can find.
SKurj
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juzz ROFL :)
skurj great book :)
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I got a lovelly film of an N1k breaking off pursuit of a fighter to come to the deck to kill my shot up 1 wing no engine 190 then getting itself shot up. :D
Then i told they guy who shot me up first of all who stole his kill ;)
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no fatty, it went from a hi speed angle dive to about 600 or maybe 800ft below my plane and pulled nose UP (aka, not diving any more) and banked and turned INSIDE my turn circle while it was at high speed.
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Uh huh.
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Tac, I know what you mean.
Those wicked good Japanese pilots we see in MA usually always start their attack with that maneuver. I mean, no 'setting up', no 'positioning' stuff other planes might need.. they come from a large alt advantage(icons show usually like more than 4000 yards up), just aim for you and dive down.
They know N1K2-J is not particularly a fast plane, so they always start up with fairly large amount of alt advantage and drop as fast as they can. I mean the speed they come at is huge.. I'm doing a shallow dive to gain E, look at speedometer and it says like 350~400mph.. look back and see distance close in like a blasted stop watch.
And I try a break turn, enough to pull outta way, good angle, but not too hard so i can save as much E as I can.. U look back, see them just whizz by like lightning.. at like more than 50 degrees angle(I can see the plane's back as it goes down)...
If this was some other plane, it definately looks like the guy made a big mistake, he came in too steeply too fast, just passed by me, and by the time he recovers and makes his way back up from all the way down, all that mighty alt E is failry used up...
But You make a turn, he passes by, u look under and he just seems to pull up and see the distance close in at lead turn angle once more, from underneath this time. He had lotsa speed, so this is fairly simple and reasonable, yes.
But shouldn't he start zooming back up to your tail at like from d3.0 or something?
You look down under, and see him pass down, he seems to recover not more than d2.0 under you and he climbs back up, distances again, closing like a stop watch.
You gape in dismay as the distance flies away, he starts shooting from 600 yards, and tracks your move with a upward zooming lead turn, which has been commenced right after pulling off a high speed dive, altering pitch from like 130 dgrees from the dive status.
I'd understand if this was a 109-ish high speed dive with low angles where drops under your low 6, and zooms back up you from under.... but this??
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Originally posted by Tac:
damn and I thought I was the only one that was experiencing close encounters of the 3rd kind & waking up with no recollection (film) but with several 20mm anal probes firmly installed.
We need to form a support group! *urgh*
LOL
:cool:
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Forget the awesome maneuvering capabilities of the N1K2.
Hell, I got a 4 air-to-air kill sortie in it once. That right there is proof enough something is wrong. :)
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I agree, Swager is a dweeb. :) And all of this is pointless, since the N1K is being looked at by Pyro and any necessary fixes to it's FM will be included with 1.08. And by that time, Tac will STILL not have any legitimate film of the Niki doing anything out of the ordinary. The only thing left to wonder about is what will happen after it's fixed, but it's still the impressively performing plane that it was in WWII?
SOB
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Perk the damn thing! 100 points
The Ta-152 sucks and it's perked - so why isn't the best plane in the whole planeset!?!
The thing is damn fast and handles better than a zero. The only thing that stops it being the only plane anyone ever flys is the embarrassment factor...
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I'm curious how a plane 7th among fighters k/d (11th if you count perk planes) equates to "the best plane in the whole planeset."
Believe me, if it was half as good as you think it is, I would be flying it exclusively just for the whine factor. I may start doing that anyway, but I prefer to fly better planes (no, not more challenging, better as in easier to kill and live).
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Dead, any time you're up to I, I'd be happy to up in the dueling arena with you and you can show me how the N1K "handles" better than the Zero. No running either, since the N1K "handles" better, turnfighting only.
SOB
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I love N1K2s! They taste a lot like chicken.
<URRRRPP>
Oddly, I've never had any problems roping N1Ks. It's just a matter of knowing the plane's flight envelope. If you're consistently amazed that it's climbing to you or hanging on its prop too well or otherwise, then you're doing something wrong. Even if it is a UFO, which I don't think it is, it must have consistent flight characteristics. The key is to figure out what those are and adjust your flying style accordingly. You'll never be amazed if you know what to expect.
-- Todd/DMF
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Still Urchin should be happy... cause rope and dope N1Ks are so fun in Ta152.... Its my belive that Ta152 has the better prop hanging than any other planes in AH...
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:o
Ahem OK well I was a little bit hasty to ire...
However after a quick look at the last 3 tours:
N1K2 has 24024 Kills of All models All models have 21944 Kills of N1K2 Tour 19
N1K2 has 20274 Kills of All models All models have 17919 Kills of N1K2 Tour 18
N1K2 has 18716 Kills of All models All models have 15382 Kills of N1K2 Tour 17
The N1k2 kills more that it gets killed for every plane apart from the perked boys: F4U1C, Ta152, Tempest; The other HO beasts: Typhoon, the Fw190A5,A8,D9 - which mostly proves it isn't wonderful at them dodgy old HOs, and I guess N1K jocks (bless them) haven't learnt that yet...
And then these 3: Ki61, P47d11, Yak9U (what these signifies I dunno, but I like those d11s
And the plane that killed the most N1K2s over the past 3 tours?
That'd be the N1K2 - by some bizarre coincidence.
As to the Zeke challenge - ahem well I put my mouth into gear before engaging the grey cells ;)
What I meant by that filthy, slanderous comment is the few times I've tried a N1k2 out it seemed to do everything exactly how I wanted it to - which is completely impossible in any other plane, because they hasve this distressing habit of slowing down, stalling, spinning, bleeding E and those other plane-like things. ;) So I still maintain that the FM appears to have leant a bit too far towards arcade mode...
All that said, the biggest reason I'd be in favour of perking it is to just see a few more people out of the N1K and in something else just for a bit of variety.
So I still say perk the damn thing.
<paints self white to deflect blast>
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So let me get this straight, you're saying this plane is some sort of uber-unstoppable beast? All of what you say sounds nice and uber, as long as you ignore the fact there are many planes that exceed those stats in ever category except total kills.
n1k2 has 295 kills of the 190A5.
190a5 has 442 kills of the n1k2.
n1k2 has 267 kills of the 190a8.
190a8 has 267 kills of the n1k2 (surely we must perk this uber a8 as well).
n1k has 344 kills of the 190d9.
190d9 has 551 kills of the n1k2.
n1k2 has 353 kills of the ki-61
ki-61 has 509 kills of the n1k2 (so much for the turning argument)
n1k2 has 153 kills of the p47-d11
p47d11 has 168 kills of the n1k2
n1k2 has 1470 kills of the p51d
p51d has 1526 kills of the n1k2
n1k2 has 515 kills of the typhoon
typhoon has 684 kills of the n1k2
n1k2 has 308 kills of the yak-9u.
yak-9u has 312 kills of the n1k2.
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Fatty, stats say whatever you want. How many times have you seen a 190 used as field defense when that field is overwhelmingly capped and only 25% fuel left? Which plane is commonly seen in a vulch or field jabo? the 190.
It is also surprising to see how the n1k fared against the P-51 in your stats. Now thats a plane rarely used for field defense or low alt furballing, not to mention that, in my experience, most P-51's out there know what they're doing.
Try to read between the lines.
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I'm just posting the stats dead used when he said "The n1k2 rules every plane, except the ones it doesn't". Paraphrased, of course.
In fact, I agree with you. If it was not that a6ms and spitVs were used so much for field defense, I believe they would be ahead of the n1k2 as well.
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Originally posted by -dead-:
[QBAll that said, the biggest reason I'd be in favour of perking it is to just see a few more people out of the N1K and in something else just for a bit of variety.
[/QB]
Hmmm mmmmm.... You're not playing the same Aces High as me... or atleast the same Aces High I've been playing since Beta Tour 2....
More people out of the N1K2= more people into the Spitfire MkIX.
I said it before when the F4U-1C was getting perked... you perk the F4U-1C and the next plane(s) with percieved advantages (real or not) will be the next plane(s) every is trying to get perked.
A few months pass and the N1K2 becomes the topic of perking...
You are dillusional if you honestly believe perking any plane will force people into a variety of other ones. They are flying that one plane because of one reason: It works well for them. They will just find the next plane... whether it be the SpitIX or Ki61.. or something that comes with 1.08, I don't know. But I do know for sure that the only thing that will change when you perk the N1K2 is the title of these threads.... You simply replace N1K2 with whatever is next on the hit list and I guarantee you 2 or 3 months down the road that popular plane is getting cries for perkage.
Tour 19:akswulfe has 12 kills and has been killed 2 times against the N1K2.
Tour 18:akswulfe has 14 kills and has been killed 4 times against the N1K2.
Tour 17:akswulfe has 12 kills and has been killed 7 times against the N1K2.
Tour 16:akswulfe has 16 kills and has been killed 2 times against the N1K2.
Tour 15:akswulfe has 2 kills and has been killed 3 times against the N1K2.
Tour15:Stain has 12 kills and has been killed 1 time against the N1K2.
Tour 14:akswulfe has 12 kills and has been killed 5 times against the N1K2.
Tour 14:Stain has 3 kills and has been killed 0 times against the N1K2.
Tour13:Akswulfe has 4 kills and has been killed 4 times against the N1K2.
Tour12: AKSWulfe has 27 kills and has been killed 11 times against the N1K2.
Tour11:AKSWulfe has 7 kills and has been killed 3 times against the N1K2.
Tour10:AKSWulfe has 15 kills and has been killed 5 times against the N1K2.
Tour9: AKSWulfe has 45 kills and has been killed 16 times against the N1K2.
That's enough... I think you get the point.
-SW
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Originally posted by -dead-:
As to the Zeke challenge - ahem well I put my mouth into gear before engaging the grey cells ;)
Well toejam, I was looking forward to actually getting some kills for once! Thanks a lot! :D
SOB
BTW Tac, I use the P51b for base defence all the time, and I generally have no idea what I'm doing. Of course, I probably don't fit into the "most" category :)
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okiedokie
[ 09-05-2001: Message edited by: oki ]