Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Ripsnort on March 09, 2001, 07:55:00 AM
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HTC, would LOVE to see this A/C added to the list of US Naval A/C as a perk A/C. Please consider it...I know you'll probably never do the P61B, so I'd be willing to wait for this gem (but not wait as long as I have for the P61B !) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
http://www.history.navy.mil/branches/hist-ac/f7f-3n.pdf (http://www.history.navy.mil/branches/hist-ac/f7f-3n.pdf)
(http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/f7f.jpg)
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(http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/Mag33-Blank-Sig-22.gif)
~Death Rattlers~
Member of 'MAG-33' (Click here) (http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/M3.html)
Click here for VMF-323 Death Rattlers info (http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/vmf323inquirer.html)
Click here for interviews with other Aces High Squadrons (http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/SPOTLIGHT1.html)
"If most Americans believed in political correctness, we'd still be
King George's boys --subjects bound to the British crown."
Charlton Heston
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 03-09-2001).]
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 03-09-2001).]
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Ripsnort, the P-61B AND the F7F will be in the game... soon...
*keeps on dreaming*.. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Well, HT and Pyro each get a bottle of their favorite, and the artist gets dinner on me at Hooters...er, I mean Bass Pro shop in (Oct?)...how about THAT for inspiration!
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How much did it see action during WWII?
I thought so. Maybe when we get Korean war arena (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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jochen Gefechtsverband Kowalewski
Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87D, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.
Sieg oder bolsevismus!
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"How much did it see action during WWII?"
Thank cod this isn't what HTC is going by or feels is the line to draw. F7F was in production and deployed well before Japan surrendered. Lack of offering targest on the part of the enemy isn't justification for non-inclusion either, imo.
-Westy
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Get your own thread going, loosewaffe boy! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) This thread is about the Tigercat.
The XF7F-1 was first flown on November the 3rd 1943 and was designed to meet a US Navy requirement for a twin engined bomber to be operated from the Navy's aircraft carrier fleet. In reality, very few operated from anything other than terra firma.
F7F-3Ps flew a few operations for the US Marine Corps towards the end of WWII. Their last function was as night time target designation aircraft for B-29 bombing raids.
Total production of all variants of the F7F was slightly in excess of 360 examples.(think thats more than TA152 Jochen)
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 03-09-2001).]
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Also in production before the end of the war:
de Havilland Hornet
(http://www.accessweb.com/users/mconstab/Hornet.jpg)
Power Plants: Two 2,070 h.p. Rolls-Royce Merlin 130 or 131
Dimensions: Span 45 ft. 0 in. Length 36 ft. 8 in.
Height 14 ft. 2 in. Wing area 361 sq. ft
Weights: (F. Mk. 1) Tare weight 12.502 lb. All-up weight 17,700 lb
Performance: (F. Mk. 1) Maximum speed 472 m.p.h.* initial climb 4,000 ft.l min
Ceiling 37.500 ft. Range 2,500 miles
*At 22,000 ft
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Yes to all!
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WTG Ripsnort. Have to remind folks the war didn't necesarilly end in May of 1945 sometimes (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
-Westy
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http://www.topedge.com/panels/aircraft/sites/mats/grumman-f7f2a.htm (http://www.topedge.com/panels/aircraft/sites/mats/grumman-f7f2a.htm)
"The XF7F-1 (Grumman design G-51) flew for the first time in December 1943 and met the Navy's requirements for a multi-engined carrier-based fighter aircraft with a ground-support role. The first Tigercats were delivered to the fleet in April 1944 but operational problems and changing requirements led to the production cancellation of some of the 500 ordered aircraft."
http://members.tripod.com/Air_Museum_ww2/id27.htm (http://members.tripod.com/Air_Museum_ww2/id27.htm)
"In contrast, the F7F was planned on a basis of knowledge and though dramatically heavier and faster than any previous carrier aircraft it was matched with the deck of the large Midway-class carriers then under construction. Most, however, were ordered for the US Marine Corps for use from land. *
They arrived on the battle fronts in 1944, and used often as a night fighter. Many of them were given radar in the nose instead of guns and an observers seat in the rear."
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Originally posted by Toad:
http://www.topedge.com/panels/aircraft/sites/mats/grumman-f7f2a.htm (http://www.topedge.com/panels/aircraft/sites/mats/grumman-f7f2a.htm)
"The XF7F-1 (Grumman design G-51) flew for the first time in December 1943 and met the Navy's requirements for a multi-engined carrier-based fighter aircraft with a ground-support role. The first Tigercats were delivered to the fleet in April 1944 but operational problems and changing requirements led to the production cancellation of some of the 500 ordered aircraft."
http://members.tripod.com/Air_Museum_ww2/id27.htm (http://members.tripod.com/Air_Museum_ww2/id27.htm)
"In contrast, the F7F was planned on a basis of knowledge and though dramatically heavier and faster than any previous carrier aircraft it was matched with the deck of the large Midway-class carriers then under construction. Most, however, were ordered for the US Marine Corps for use from land. *
They arrived on the battle fronts in 1944, and used often as a night fighter. Many of them were given radar in the nose instead of guns and an observers seat in the rear."
There's a lot of misleading or simply incorrect information within the above quotations. Be careful what you accept as truth when it's posted to a web site.
The first of just 35 Grumman F7F-1 aircraft was delivered to the Navy on April 29, 1944. The balance of the 500 plane contract was cancelled. This first aircraft, along with subsequent aircraft went straight into a test program. In addition, the navy still had to establish a logical support base for the aircraft, prepare tech-pubs, train mechanics to maintain and pilots to operate the aircraft. Delivery to the Navy is a far cry from delivery to "the fleet".
The first operational squadron deployed was VMF(N)-533, which received their aircraft at Okinawa on August 14, 1945. This, you may recall, was the day before Japan announced its acceptance of an unconditional surrender. Only 65 of the F7F-2N night fighters were built and the first was delivered on 10/31/44.
I'd love to know the source of Ripsnort's report of Marine F7F-3Ps flying target designation for Army B-29s. Especially in light of the fact that the AAF had plenty of Lockheed extremely capable F-5G photo-recon aircraft in theater.
My regards,
Widewing
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Damn! I really like the Tigercat. I guess Widewing's info means HTC will just have to build us P-61's! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) .
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Sundog
VMF-111 Devildogs (http://www.devildogs.com)
MAG-33 (http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/M3.html)
'Criticism is always easier than craftmanship.'
[This message has been edited by Sundog (edited 03-10-2001).]
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Yea this plane sounds swell. AFTER we fill out the rest of the set with planes that were perhaps, more significant. (i'm thinkin scenarios here). I wish we would see more requests for 110s and hurricanes and whatnot. Ah well...
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"Developed under the company designation G-51, the prototype XF7F-1 first flew on 3 November 1943, by which time 500 had been ordered for the USMC to support 'island hopping' operations in the Pacific. Deliveries of the initial F7F-1 single seater with R-2800-22W enginges began in April 1944 but after delays caused largely by changing requirements, deployment was too late to see combat in WWII and about 200 orders were cancelled in late 1945".
So Rip, unsatisfied with getting most of his A2A kills last tour in the CHog, now wants to introduce another 4 cannon Navy bird into a 1946 arena?
Oh, and Westy ....
"GRAPEVINE, Texas, May 18 /PRNewswire/ -- HiTech Creations Inc., a
Grapevine, TX large scale Internet flight simulation company, recently
completed testing and released Aces High, a premium WWII flight simulation."
Read it again .... "WWII flight simulation". Sorry, but I think that precludes non WWII aircraft (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Of course, if it doesn't preclude such aircraft, lets all lobby for an F15-E... perked of course (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
Chapter 13, verse 11
[This message has been edited by Jekyll (edited 03-10-2001).]
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Would you feel better with a Whirlwind? It's got 4 cannons all in the nose, and was in service in 1943. Several of them attacked the Prinz Eugen fleet during the Channel Dash. Proof of this is in Galland's book. Since it had chronic engine troubles it was relagated to Jabo missions. Down low it could defend itself, but if it went high it was a sitting duck.
Me? I'm holding out for a P-61B.
And as a side note, Zeno posted a new film about the TBM on his site.
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Flakbait [Delta6]
Delta 6's Flight School (http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6)
Put the P-61B in Aces High
"With all due respect Chaplian, I don't think God wants to hear from me right now.
I'm gonna go out there and remove one of His creations from this universe.
And when I get back I'm gonna drink a bottle of Scotch like it was Chiggy von
Richthofen's blood and celebrate his death."
Col. McQueen, Space: Above and Beyond
(http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6/htbin/delta6.jpg)
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LOL, we need only some MiG-15 and F-86 to make "Aces Over Korea". Hell, were they on the design board or not!? At least in designer's brain!!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Read it again .... "WWII flight simulation". Sorry, but I think that precludes non WWII aircraft
Yup. I read it again. Didn't see "WWII flight simulation using only aircraft that saw air-to-air combat" - that is what you were implying. no?
I do not have a problem with what HTC is doing Jekyll. I like the planes they have added and will add. No prototypes, no "dream plane that never left some sketch pad from some hallucinating engineer cowering in a bomb shelter"
I'm happy.
You're not?
-Westy
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Never said I was unhappy Westy, but how can you seriously argue for yet another US Navy 4 cannon bird when the Japanese, Russian, Italian, British planesets are so thin on the ground?
There's probably at least 50 aircraft that should be added to Aces High before we get into the "golly gee we had it finished but the darn war ended before we got to use it" crowd (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
BTW Nashwan, according to my sources, the Hornet F.1 was not delivered to the RAF until 1946!
Spake Gatt:
LOL, we need only some MiG-15 and F-86 to make "Aces Over Korea"
Too late Gatt (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Looks like Targetware is going to have that market sown up. And I gotta say, TK is looking verra verra nice (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
Chapter 13, verse 11
[This message has been edited by Jekyll (edited 03-10-2001).]
[This message has been edited by Jekyll (edited 03-10-2001).]
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Thanks, WW.
I was looking for the first operationally deployed squadron but that's all a quick google search turned up.
Can't find anything on VMF(N) 533 either.
But, if this was a LW plane, this is more than enough justification to demand it be modeled immediately! <G,D,R>
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The Tigercat is my favourite US plane. Seen it several times at the Duxford airshow over here.
But I'd like to see the Il-2 first. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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...how can you seriously argue ...
Put yer gun back in the holster "quick draw". Cheesuz Aytch Chripes I argue the inclusion of just about ANY plane used or produced in WWII. In the case of the F7F I'm making a point, once again, about what has been declared the cut off point for aircraft modelled. If it was produced, it's fair game. Seems to be HTC's pov.
I'd like to see the BoomerRang added. Questio. How many and how much action did they see? Answer? Who gives a sh&t. It was produced and deployed. Same with the Dutch twin tail early war fighter. It was produced and deployed. HE-162, DO-335.. same thing. Bring em all on. BoB and Midway scenarios get old. Try something fresh for a change why don't you?
-Westy
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hmmmm. forgot why I was here....oh yeah,...BRING THE TIGERCAT TO ACES HIGH! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Oh, and Jekyll, don't let stats fool ya, when CO (and XO) of JG2, most my kills were in a FW190A8, also a cannon bird. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Now that I fly for a Marine Squadron, naturally some of my kills are gonna be in a cannon bird, as they were in JG2. Moral of the story? Cannons are lethal, whether they are in a Tiffy, Chog, or Spit. If I was in a Spit squadron, you can bet most of my kills would be in a MarkIV.
Incidently, the tour before last (why you picked last tour I have no idea) I had more F4U-1D kills that the Chog. I probably did more ATA in that tour, and more ground pounding last tour.
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 03-12-2001).]
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Yet more drivel from Jekyll. "I hate AH and you do too!" If Targetware is looking so good, go freakin post on their ubb. Stop trying to stir up the AH crowd here.
I'm going to say something here that's probably going to get me flamed. Personally, I don't think the majority of the people who play AH do it because the planes are historically matched up. Because their not. So you can cry about the F7F never seeing combat, but who gives a @(#*? A P-51 never shot down P-47, a Yak never shot down a La5. But they do it all the time in AH. I think I speak for most of the community when I say that flying a WWII flight simulation is more about playing on the strengths and weaknesses of the various aircraft (regardless how many were made or saw combat).
Thats what makes it fun.
Servo
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Originally posted by Servo:
I think I speak for most of the community when I say that flying a WWII flight simulation is more about playing on the strengths and weaknesses of the various aircraft (regardless how many were made or saw combat).
I think you speak for yourself.
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Originally posted by Servo:
Personally, I don't think the majority of the people who play AH do it because the planes are historically matched up... I think I speak for most of the community when I say that flying a WWII flight simulation is more about playing on the strengths and weaknesses of the various aircraft (regardless how many were made or saw combat).
Thats what makes it fun.
First of all, this game would be much more attractive to me if it was historically matched. Second, It would seem paramount that a flight sim allow players to use the strengths and weaknesses of various aircraft, otherwise it would be something like Crimson Skies. While I'm quite satisfied that HTC model their aircraft with convincing accuracy, the 'everybody flies everything' arena has never been a selling point for me.
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GEE-MIN-EEEE,
All this argueing about bringing another 4 cannon US Navy bird into the arena. Okay-ALL RIGHT ALREADY.
No TigerCat. Now bring on the Mossie. 4 .303s and 4 20mm cannon. This Better? Yeah, Missile's Mighty Mossie (TM). I like it. Any questions?
DISMISSED.
Da Missile
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Servo!!
Damm good response!!
Short and sweet!
(S)