Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: legoman on July 31, 2009, 10:13:58 PM
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I think in flight refueling would help extend ranges of aircraft so that you could have longer missions. Also give the enemy something easy to kill. :lol
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(http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/3989/doublefacepalm.jpg)
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(http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/3989/doublefacepalm.jpg)
+1... Well it is a double face palm, so +2...
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Non-snide reply:
No, there was no mid-air refueling in WWII, however there are a good number of aircraft in AH that are capable of very long missions if you take the fuel for it.
All of the multi-engine bombers have long range. The following list of fighters can fly for very long distances if you take full fuel and/or drop tanks:
A6M2
A6M5b
Bf110G-2
F6F-5
Ki-84-Ia
Mosquito Mk VI
N1K2-J
P-38J
P-38L
P-47N
P-51B
P-51D
Ta152H-1
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Contrary to those who haven't a clue and wanted to ridicule your question, the answer is YES. The German Luftwaffe had extensive mid-air refueling capabilities as well as towed fuel cells and winged fuel drones. The 1st operational refueling plane was a modified HE-177 A-1 and was fitted with the flexible MK 101Z mid-air refueling gear, this happened on Dec 23rd, 1941.
Over the remaining course of the war, many more planes & types were outfitted in such a manner using various types of gear of which i know of at least 4 different types.
If you would like to learn more, i recommend you get the book "Luftwaffe Over America" by Manfred Griehl
ISBN-13: 978-0-7607-8697-0
ISBN-10: 0-7607-8697-6
This book deals directly with your question & has alot of pictures, technical drawings & specs.
For you other "Tools", try turning off the History channel & pick up a book to get some real knowledge into your puny heads.
:salute VIX
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Vixen,
None of the aircraft types in AH were capable of mid-air refueling. Very few of any kind were and the uses for it were very specialized. Saying it was "extensive" is pretty misleading.
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Wow thankyou for the info i will make sure to check for the book and you right i do watch the military channle to much lol. :salute
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karnak, try rereading the question he asked & then rethink your stupitidy :x
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Is this guy Stealth's older, and equally "special" brother?
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Non-snide reply:
No, there was no mid-air refueling in WWII, however there are a good number of aircraft in AH that are capable of very long missions if you take the fuel for it.
All of the multi-engine bombers have long range. The following list of fighters can fly for very long distances if you take full fuel and/or drop tanks:
A6M2
A6M5b
Bf110G-2
F6F-5
Ki-84-Ia
Mosquito Mk VI
N1K2-J
P-38J
P-38L
P-47N
P-51B
P-51D
Ta152H-1
You left out the Corsairs. The F4U-1 and F4U-1A have a total combat radius (out and back for those who need the distinction) exceeding 400 miles on internal fuel with plenty of gas for combat when using cruise settings (this is at 1.0 fuel burn, so obviously halve it for the Mains). That definitely puts them among the top tier of all fighters for endurance, especially if you include the drop tank.
The Brewster has very good endurance as well, although its speed limits its combat radius.
Vixen,
You can reread it too, because he's asking FOR in-flight refueling in the game. Karnak's response was perfectly valid, giving him a list of aircraft that have more than sufficient endurance for long sorties.
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Its not a bad wish to be honest....it was used in WW2. Unlike many of the Twin Mustang type threads.
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Contrary to those who haven't a clue and wanted to ridicule your question, the answer is YES. The German Luftwaffe had extensive mid-air refueling capabilities as well as towed fuel cells and winged fuel drones. The 1st operational refueling plane was a modified HE-177 A-1 and was fitted with the flexible MK 101Z mid-air refueling gear, this happened on Dec 23rd, 1941.
Over the remaining course of the war, many more planes & types were outfitted in such a manner using various types of gear of which i know of at least 4 different types.
If you would like to learn more, i recommend you get the book "Luftwaffe Over America" by Manfred Griehl
ISBN-13: 978-0-7607-8697-0
ISBN-10: 0-7607-8697-6
This book deals directly with your question & has alot of pictures, technical drawings & specs.
For you other "Tools", try turning off the History channel & pick up a book to get some real knowledge into your puny heads.
:salute VIX
I read this book a few months back. Good information, but the writing style and flow from the author could have be a lot better. He seemed to jump around quite a bit within sections.
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Vixen,
You can reread it too, because he's asking FOR in-flight refueling in the game. Karnak's response was perfectly valid, giving him a list of aircraft that have more than sufficient endurance for long sorties.
Exactly. Calling people "stupid" isn't a debating technique either Vixen, it's the mark of a politician with his back to the wall.
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you can also greatly extend the range of most planes in AH by flying them in a more historically correct manner. I have sent most of the past 3 months flying aircraft in game that I actually have the manuals for. It was very enlightening and I've learned several tricks to extend the range on most of the USN planes in the game. (Here's a hint, for most aircraft the max range settings are well below the lowest settings listed on the in-game E6B)
As an example if you do a cruise climb in a F6F-5 with 100% fuel, 2 1000lbs bombs and 6 rockets you can climb to 16,000 feet and have 50 minutes of fuel on the E6B in the main arena's.
Granted it's slower than just firewalling the throttle, but you can get WAY more flight time if you drop the RPM and Manifold Pressure to the cruise settings listed on the E6B.
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Vixen take your meds buddy, You dont need to insult anything that posts.
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Answering the original question: mid-air refueling (aside from the plethora of drop tank enabled planes that can fly for nearly an hour with proper fuel economy) wouldn't that negate the x2 fuel burn rate established to keep some planes from just flying around for a couple of hours? It's a nifty idea but it would probably be easier to beg HiTech and crew to reset the fuel burn rate...maybe send them some cookies and a case of beer.
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That's a cute color DIXEN.
April 2006...... Less then 100, oh wait, make that 15...... Why did this sally boy come back to bother us?
Skuzzy......... I'll take my ban now. It is worth it.
Funny part is I've been away for weeks and this had to be the 1st thing I read. I'll log and pretend it was a dream.
:salute Karnak
:salute the real stick named VIX
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:lol :lol
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Contrary to those who haven't a clue and wanted to ridicule your question, the answer is YES. The German Luftwaffe had extensive mid-air refueling capabilities as well as towed fuel cells and winged fuel drones. The 1st operational refueling plane was a modified HE-177 A-1 and was fitted with the flexible MK 101Z mid-air refueling gear, this happened on Dec 23rd, 1941.
Over the remaining course of the war, many more planes & types were outfitted in such a manner using various types of gear of which i know of at least 4 different types.
If you would like to learn more, i recommend you get the book "Luftwaffe Over America" by Manfred Griehl
ISBN-13: 978-0-7607-8697-0
ISBN-10: 0-7607-8697-6
This book deals directly with your question & has alot of pictures, technical drawings & specs.
For you other "Tools", try turning off the History channel & pick up a book to get some real knowledge into your puny heads.
:salute VIX
This is the first time that I have ever heard of a Nazi inflight refueler.
I spent 7+ years as a KC-135 pilot. History as we were taught was that the early experiments were in an American plane called the 'Question Mark.' I just looked online and I just learned that the British were working out the technical details. Other than the book that you are recommending, I have seen no indication of a Nazi inflight refueling program.
There was no militarily significant inflight refueling during WW2. For someone so proud of their intellect, you need to research the word 'operational.'
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Lets rememember folks that by far the majority of people playing are likely 30yo or less and don't have even 2nd hand knowledge of actual WWII operations. From what I've seen also is by far the majority of players are of the arcade style of play and have little or no interst in how things "were" in real life.
But for those who DO show an interest it seems to me they should be encouraged and given direction instead of beat upon.
...but some things never change....just my 2 cents.
BTW I've never heard of WWII operational mid-air refueling either (maybe in research level tho)
(feathering prop/reducing rpm seems to have a major longevity affect - as does flying at the proper altitudes the engine systems were designed for)
cheers eh!
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propellers would seem to be the biggest impediment
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well it will b kind of hard to refuel a propeller pplane in mid-air
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well it will b kind of hard to refuel a propeller pplane in mid-air
Well the easiest way to refuel in mid-air was to "land" in mid-air!!
http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss240/dansky69/USS_Akron_in_flight_nov_1931.jpg
http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss240/dansky69/F9C_in_USS_Akron_hangar1932.jpg
http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss240/dansky69/716px-XF9C_1_aircraft_hooking_onto_.jpg
***edit - found a better pic : http://www.flickr.com/photos/telstar/3322409887/
Unfortunately the Akron crashed later with great loss of life and it was never pursued farther.
hehehe - how many of ya knew about this little feat of wonder eh??
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Non-snide reply:
No, there was no mid-air refueling in WWII, however there are a good number of aircraft in AH that are capable of very long missions if you take the fuel for it.
All of the multi-engine bombers have long range. The following list of fighters can fly for very long distances if you take full fuel and/or drop tanks:
A6M2
A6M5b
Bf110G-2
F6F-5
Ki-84-Ia
Mosquito Mk VI
N1K2-J
P-38J
P-38L
P-47N
P-51B
P-51D
Ta152H-1
ki-61 = 92 minutes in the main arena on full fuel + dt's --- 3rd best endurance for a fighter behind mosquito and p47n
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The F4U-1A also has very long legs.
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I did not ask if any of the planes had long legs, i asked if there was in flight refueling in world war2.
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I did not ask if any of the planes had long legs, i asked if there was in flight refueling in world war2.
I can find no reference to in-flight refueling prior to the end of WW2 other than early experiments carried out in the United States.
The answer would seem to be NO.
Seventy-Five Years of InFlight Refueling (Acrobat format) (http://www.airforcehistory.hq.af.mil/Publications/fulltext/75yrs_inflight_refueling.pdf)
(http://pro.corbis.com/images/IH021273.jpg?size=67&uid=21D19D21-A3BA-4773-A701-2474D744F422)
During the first ever in-flight refueling exercise on November 12, 1921, Wes may climbs rom a Standard J to a Curtiss JN-4C Jenny with a 50 pound fuel can strapped to his back.
wrongway
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One of my ex's had pretty long legs, I dont care if you asked.
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I did not ask if any of the planes had long legs, i asked if there was in flight refueling in world war2.
You've asked a question, and people have given you the answer in previous posts. Move on.
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This is the first time that I have ever heard of a Nazi inflight refueler.
I spent 7+ years as a KC-135 pilot. History as we were taught was that the early experiments were in an American plane called the 'Question Mark.' I just looked online and I just learned that the British were working out the technical details. Other than the book that you are recommending, I have seen no indication of a Nazi inflight refueling program.
There was no militarily significant inflight refueling during WW2. For someone so proud of their intellect, you need to research the word 'operational.'
As per the original post, their refueling capacity was FAR from extensive. Mainly a concept that was tested with several different methods of transferring fuel. There was no evidence provided by the book that said any type of in-flight refueling was used in any type of military role, testing only. It was deemed too risky in most cases. The Germans preferred to work on developing a bomber with a 10000km+ range to bomb New York, and that was from france. By Mid-1944, they had lost France and really any plausible chance of bombing New York by air.
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Many nations were still using fore and aft refueling with their ships let alone air to air refueling. Even today a2a refueling is a dangerous event.
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Well the easiest way to refuel in mid-air was to "land" in mid-air!!
http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss240/dansky69/USS_Akron_in_flight_nov_1931.jpg
http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss240/dansky69/F9C_in_USS_Akron_hangar1932.jpg
http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss240/dansky69/716px-XF9C_1_aircraft_hooking_onto_.jpg
***edit - found a better pic : http://www.flickr.com/photos/telstar/3322409887/
Unfortunately the Akron crashed later with great loss of life and it was never pursued farther.
hehehe - how many of ya knew about this little feat of wonder eh??
They did not land to refuel. They were onboard to protect the airship. lol But nice try. <S>
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Vixen,
None of the aircraft types in AH were capable of mid-air refueling. Very few of any kind were and the uses for it were very specialized. Saying it was "extensive" is pretty misleading.
Indeed.
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You've asked a question, and people have given you the answer in previous posts. Move on.
Hey, easy now...no need for attitude for questions, on a forum.