Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Enker on August 01, 2009, 05:20:22 PM

Title: New Water
Post by: Enker on August 01, 2009, 05:20:22 PM
Who here likes the new water? It messes up everyone's depth perception, and thanks to it, I have been able to get Spit 16s to auger into it, leaving me to deal with those blasted Brewsters that just won't auger!

I do like the way it looks, and this is not meant to be a whine.
Title: Re: New Water
Post by: 96Delta on August 01, 2009, 05:24:40 PM
it looks like a cheap web page tiled background
if you can't run it with the details set high.

Oh, and without running the details, the
wakes are gone.
Title: Re: New Water
Post by: Motherland on August 01, 2009, 05:32:51 PM
I don't read a lot about pilots flying over water, being more interested in the European War, however from what I understand flying over water really does ruin depth perception.
Title: Re: New Water
Post by: Kazaa on August 01, 2009, 05:40:54 PM
The new water looks 100 times better then what we previously had.
Title: Re: New Water
Post by: 96Delta on August 01, 2009, 06:14:28 PM
The new water looks 100 times better then what we previously had.

Wasn't worth the price of what we lost.
Title: Re: New Water
Post by: Karnak on August 01, 2009, 06:16:01 PM
Wasn't worth the price of what we lost.
We didn't lose anything.
Title: Re: New Water
Post by: 96Delta on August 01, 2009, 06:18:52 PM
We didn't lose anything.
Where are the hedges?
Title: Re: New Water
Post by: Motherland on August 01, 2009, 06:22:10 PM
The ground environment may be less gamey, which may be a disappointment to some people, but I think it looks 10x better from any viewpoint with detailed terrain and bump mapping on.

I'm especially glad the hills are gone, they've always looked really stupid to me.
Title: Re: New Water
Post by: Enker on August 01, 2009, 06:34:09 PM
Where are the hedges?

The hedges are still there, just not as numerous. They still flip your Tiger, if that is what you worried about.
Title: Re: New Water
Post by: texastc316 on August 01, 2009, 06:37:46 PM
hedges? good riddance
Title: Re: New Water
Post by: Kazaa on August 01, 2009, 06:53:02 PM
Wasn't worth the price of what we lost.

We didn't lose anything, we gained sexy looking water.

Where are the hedges?


Wasn't we talking about the new water textures?
Title: Re: New Water
Post by: crazyivan on August 01, 2009, 06:57:51 PM
the new water is so pretty. I could reach out and touch it , DOH!
Title: Re: New Water
Post by: Ratpack1 on August 01, 2009, 07:28:45 PM
I don't why people are having a problem judging distance from the water. I don't see any issue with it.
Title: Re: New Water
Post by: texastc316 on August 01, 2009, 07:41:18 PM
I don't why people are having a problem judging distance from the water. I don't see any issue with it.

hehe, I augered more last night than I have in 6 months
Title: Re: New Water
Post by: bj229r on August 01, 2009, 07:54:41 PM
With the high res pack and all the bells and whistles implemented, the water is frikkin breath-taking (of course, the @#$@%# BRIGHT SUN blasts it away most of the time
Title: Re: New Water
Post by: R 105 on August 01, 2009, 08:19:42 PM
I crashed into the water 4 times in a row because I can't judge the distance or tell the sky line from the water. I drove a tank into it to last night for the same reason. My graphics are so low I can't tell the brown dirt from the some what less brown water I am seeing. I would rather have the old version and a few new tanks like a Panzer III for EW.
Title: Re: New Water
Post by: Kung Fu on August 01, 2009, 08:51:20 PM
Well yeah if the graphics are turned down then its hard to tell, but with all the details on it looks fantastic.  Sounds like an upgrade is in order?  I would exercise some patience since I'm pretty sure the developers are trying to make the majority happy.
Title: Re: New Water
Post by: Enker on August 01, 2009, 08:52:43 PM
Well yeah if the graphics are turned down then its hard to tell, but with all the details on it looks fantastic.  Sounds like an upgrade is in order?
Even with the graphics turned down it is easy to tell, and still looks fantastic.

R105, try turning up the gamma, or make sure you are not color blind.
Title: Re: New Water
Post by: Belial on August 01, 2009, 09:03:15 PM
Is it not possible to keep the high end graphics and make it so with the good graphics deselected its still playable?  Seriously if the games running good for you guys try turning everything down and play once, so you can feel these guys pain.
Title: Re: New Water
Post by: Enker on August 01, 2009, 09:06:46 PM
Is it not possible to keep the high end graphics and make it so with the good graphics deselected its still playable?  Seriously if the games running good for you guys try turning everything down and play once, so you can feel these guys pain.
I have everything turned off, but with my super powerful 256MB video card, I can set both sliders all the way up. I can't tell much of difference though.
Title: Re: New Water
Post by: R 105 on August 01, 2009, 09:14:41 PM
My computer is new I have a good card and fiber optic. I am retired Army with combat MOS's so no I am not color blind and it looks like I am not the only guy having problems.
Title: Re: New Water
Post by: Kazaa on August 01, 2009, 09:17:46 PM
I'm colour-blind and my depth perception over water is fine, I’ve yet to auger into it once. I don't see how colour-blindness could affect depth perception anyway.
Title: Re: New Water
Post by: DaveJ on August 01, 2009, 09:20:30 PM
I'm colour blind and my depth perception over AH2’s new water is fine. I’ve yet to auger into it once.

You don't know what it is like for people with completely low end video cards and ALL detail whatsoever turned off. What are your settings then?

It is just a blue blob that has no relativity for people like me that are having problems with the "new" graphics on our end.

The same thing goes with the terrain too. Major depth perception and texture issues there as well.
Title: Re: New Water
Post by: Kazaa on August 01, 2009, 09:33:06 PM
I have detailed terrain and detailed water checked.

No doubt depth perception will be a lot harder with both unchecked.
Title: Re: New Water
Post by: Agent360 on August 01, 2009, 09:53:01 PM
I noticed the same problem (augering) for me last night too. No depth perception. Turning nose low in a slow speed fight on the deck put me in the water everytime.

I used to be able to fly right down to it and skim an elevator turn out and up. But now below about 500 feet I just cant tell how close I am.

I am running 1024 and getting 50+ frames. It looks great....looks real...no issues there.

But even though it looks real there is definitly a deptch perception issue now...at least for me.
Title: Re: New Water
Post by: Kweassa on August 01, 2009, 10:02:51 PM
 So people will now learn to try and avoid fighting at altitudes where your propeller would dip the water surface.

 Better eye-candy, plus, better situational realism, too.

 
 I call this a win-win scenario.

 
(ps) There's a little something called "altimeter" in your plane. It looks like a clock and corresponds to your climb/dive movement. Perhaps its a good idea to actually use these thingamabobs, since someone obviously took a lot of time to install one of it in your plane.

(ps2) Also, there is another something called "instrument flight". Apparently, it seems that real life pilots also get confused about at which alt they are actually flying at, especially when visuals are impaired due to weather conditions, or does not provide enough relative markers to get an accurate perception of altitude - typically over large surface of water, desert, or plains, at which the lack of visual markers and a grand repetition of dull, singular terrain often fools people. Therefore, people are trained to read the thingamabobs called "altimeter"s, which, remind you, look like a clock.

So it's probably a good idea to look at those stuff before trying stupid things like pulling a split-S over water at dangerously low altitudes.
Title: Re: New Water
Post by: BaldEagl on August 01, 2009, 10:03:25 PM
The new water looks great.  Maybe a little too blue but great nonetheless.  Besides that I was sitting at the beack in a Tiger yesterday popping LVT's and it actually felt like I was on a beach.  You can "see bottom" where the water meets the beach.

Now I guess I'll have to go to a real beach to see some real bottom.   ;)
Title: Re: New Water
Post by: Enker on August 02, 2009, 12:35:54 AM
So it's probably a good idea to look at those stuff before trying stupid things like pulling a split-S over water at dangerously low altitudes.
What if you are a lucky idiot? Is it ok then?
Title: Re: New Water
Post by: mensa180 on August 02, 2009, 12:39:21 AM
So people will now learn to try and avoid fighting at altitudes where your propeller would dip the water surface.

 Better eye-candy, plus, better situational realism, too.

 
 I call this a win-win scenario.

 
(ps) There's a little something called "altimeter" in your plane. It looks like a clock and corresponds to your climb/dive movement. Perhaps its a good idea to actually use these thingamabobs, since someone obviously took a lot of time to install one of it in your plane.

(ps2) Also, there is another something called "instrument flight". Apparently, it seems that real life pilots also get confused about at which alt they are actually flying at, especially when visuals are impaired due to weather conditions, or does not provide enough relative markers to get an accurate perception of altitude - typically over large surface of water, desert, or plains, at which the lack of visual markers and a grand repetition of dull, singular terrain often fools people. Therefore, people are trained to read the thingamabobs called "altimeter"s, which, remind you, look like a clock.

So it's probably a good idea to look at those stuff before trying stupid things like pulling a split-S over water at dangerously low altitudes.

PS:  In a flight sim I'd wholeheartedly agree, but in this game I like to have fun in a great fight watching the enemy at all times rather than stare at my altimeter.
Title: Re: New Water
Post by: Saxman on August 02, 2009, 12:42:58 AM
Delta,

Keep in mind there's different terrain sets for ETO and PTO setups. If you've been playing in NDIsles...well...let's just say there weren't all that many hedgerows in the Pacific Islands. Although I would like to see denser vegetation for jungles.

I haven't flown in Baltic enough to know if the hedgerows are there still. Or perhaps because hedgerows were a feature more of the Northwestern France battlefields there may be a terrain tile set for that and we just haven't seen it yet?

mensa,

Yeah, because it's really hard to, y'know, glance down for a split second to check your instruments.
Title: Re: New Water
Post by: mensa180 on August 02, 2009, 12:48:31 AM
Delta,

Keep in mind there's different terrain sets for ETO and PTO setups. If you've been playing in NDIsles...well...let's just say there weren't all that many hedgerows in the Pacific Islands. Although I would like to see denser vegetation for jungles.

I haven't flown in Baltic enough to know if the hedgerows are there still. Or perhaps because hedgerows were a feature more of the Northwestern France battlefields there may be a terrain tile set for that and we just haven't seen it yet?

mensa,

Yeah, because it's really hard to, y'know, glance down for a split second to check your instruments.

Sometimes it really is.
Title: Re: New Water
Post by: DaveJ on August 02, 2009, 12:51:40 AM
So people will now learn to try and avoid fighting at altitudes where your propeller would dip the water surface.

 Better eye-candy, plus, better situational realism, too.

 
 I call this a win-win scenario.

 
(ps) There's a little something called "altimeter" in your plane. It looks like a clock and corresponds to your climb/dive movement. Perhaps its a good idea to actually use these thingamabobs, since someone obviously took a lot of time to install one of it in your plane.

(ps2) Also, there is another something called "instrument flight". Apparently, it seems that real life pilots also get confused about at which alt they are actually flying at, especially when visuals are impaired due to weather conditions, or does not provide enough relative markers to get an accurate perception of altitude - typically over large surface of water, desert, or plains, at which the lack of visual markers and a grand repetition of dull, singular terrain often fools people. Therefore, people are trained to read the thingamabobs called "altimeter"s, which, remind you, look like a clock.

So it's probably a good idea to look at those stuff before trying stupid things like pulling a split-S over water at dangerously low altitudes.

You still have said nothing about the problems of the "new water" that many people are having. ONCE AGAIN, there is a real issue with depth perception and contrast that causes these close calls/augers. People aren't making these stories up, you know.


And by the way, nobody checks their altimeter in the middle of a dogfight near the water.
Title: Re: New Water
Post by: Nutzoid on August 02, 2009, 12:54:01 AM
We didn't lose anything, we gained sexy looking water.

Wasn't we talking about the new water textures?

Hummm....... Can't fly water.
.
Title: Re: New Water
Post by: Delirium on August 02, 2009, 12:54:59 AM
If the current water had a couple white caps per tile, it would help immensely. Something like this..
(http://www.mbari.org/expeditions/Seamounts07/images/6_22/WhiteCaps-640.jpg)

I like the changes except for the water, I realize that the the new graphics give HTC something to work with when coming up with new terrains and such.
Title: Re: New Water
Post by: Baumer on August 02, 2009, 01:02:25 AM
Depth perception over water is a real life issue, sure it would be nice to have some whitecaps but that will not solve the problem.

We are all going to have to get better at judging altitude and yes that means an occasional glance at the altimeter.

Here's a good article about spatial awareness issues;

http://www.airspacemag.com/military-aviation/The_Disorient_Express.html (http://www.airspacemag.com/military-aviation/The_Disorient_Express.html)

Title: Re: New Water
Post by: BaldEagl on August 02, 2009, 01:23:12 AM
Keep in mind there's different terrain sets for ETO and PTO setups. If you've been playing in NDIsles...well...let's just say there weren't all that many hedgerows in the Pacific Islands.

Hmmm.  The only hedgerows I've run into so far are some very low one's on NDIsles.  There are none on Baltic.
Title: Re: New Water
Post by: Delirium on August 02, 2009, 01:29:38 AM
Baumer brought up a good point. Is that lack of depth perception by design?

Is the water able to be altered by a map designer? For example, could you make a map that had some white caps in it and it would be accepted for general MA use? Could you also make trees with a little more brown and red to reflect fall in Europe? Can you make snow and make trees free of leaves except for the pines? Or would all these be defined as 'custom terrain's and not useable by the MA servers?

If map design is now very broad, I'd like to change my mind and say it is a great beginning.
Title: Re: New Water
Post by: gyrene81 on August 02, 2009, 01:48:27 AM
If you're having a problem with depth perception try these:

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2368/2474602042_1b83f205b3.jpg?v=0)
Title: Re: New Water
Post by: Saxman on August 02, 2009, 10:23:46 AM
Baumer brought up a good point. Is that lack of depth perception by design?

Is the water able to be altered by a map designer? For example, could you make a map that had some white caps in it and it would be accepted for general MA use? Could you also make trees with a little more brown and red to reflect fall in Europe? Can you make snow and make trees free of leaves except for the pines? Or would all these be defined as 'custom terrain's and not useable by the MA servers?

If map design is now very broad, I'd like to change my mind and say it is a great beginning.

There's already a difference in the look of the water in Baltic as compared to NDIsles. NDIsles is much bluer and uniform in color, whereas Baltic is slightly grayer, and there's a bit more color variation. I loaded up the Coral Sea terrain and the difference is even MORE pronounced. The shallows are much greener, fading to a darker blue (with the same color variation as is present in Baltic) away from shore. Incidentally, even the land tile set for Coral Sea is different.

It looks like there's going to be a LOT more variation in water effects and terrain appearance available to map-makers than what we had under the old terrain.