Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: J_A_B on November 24, 2001, 09:11:00 PM
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I wonder if the A-26 might really be "perk" material for a bomber, should it be added to AH.
The main problem with bombers in AH is their defensive guns combined with their good durability. The A-26, however, has only weak defensive armament and unspectacular tuffness. No more than 2 defensive .50's could be pointed at you from any direction other than in front of the plane.
Yes, it is fast for a bomber, and had better dogfighting ability than most bombers--but so did the Mossie. It still wouldn't have anything near fighter performance in AH. In AW the A-26 dominated because it could out-turn pretty much anything else; I doubt AH would have a similar flaw in its flight model.
So overall I suspect the A-26, if added to AH, would be a fairly fast and fairly maneuverable bomber with weak defensive capability. But would it be perk material?
Comments?
J_A_B
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Yes it shouldn't be perked, it's not a dogfighter not a fighter, not a performer, can't run, has week defensive armourment, it would be good because it wouldn't be completly like the mossie, the mossie was heavily used when 1.08 comes out, now i rarly see one due to the fact it is actually slower than most of the planes in the game when you compare what most people in the Main arena fly
Perking it would make it useless, besides there's always ENY value just in case it's too "uber" although i can't see how it would be.
However a A-26B is NOT needed i strongly oppose any new US plane until the VVS and IJAAF get the planes they deserve, the Luftwaffe needs some decent bombers, the italiane fans need some stuff, and The Raf has a few planes that would be nice to see (no not Spit XIV another perk plane would be useless) When these are taken care of then i'd gladly like to see the A-26B
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Originally posted by Soviet:
However a A-26B is NOT needed i strongly oppose any new US plane until the VVS and IJAAF get the planes they deserve, the Luftwaffe needs some decent bombers, the italiane fans need some stuff, and The Raf has a few planes that would be nice to see (no not Spit XIV another perk plane would be useless) When these are taken care of then i'd gladly like to see the A-26B
I totally agree with you here Soviet. Until the other nations are represented first, no need for another US Buff even though I love this one.
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<--- note this wasn't one of those "add it to AH" posts, just throwing an idea out there for discussion :)
I agree that the "vader" isn't the most important bomber to add to AH for now; several other bombers (including some US ones) are really more important. That said, an A-26B would be nice to see sooner or later.
J_A_B
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Originally posted by Sachs:
I totally agree with you here Soviet. Until the other nations are represented first, no need for another US Buff even though I love this one.
So not even love is strong enough to overcome your luftwhiner values?
[ 11-25-2001: Message edited by: Montezuma ]
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A-26B-66-DL is the version we need HTC. Write it down somewhere, to save for later. :)
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Originally posted by Montezuma:
So not even love is strong enough to overcome your luftwhiner values?
[ 11-25-2001: Message edited by: Montezuma ]
Luftwhiner values?
:rolleyes:
Just shows that some really need to have their computer time monitored more closely by their parents.
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Originally posted by Sachs:
Luftwhiner values?
:rolleyes:
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Yes.
Unlike most players, Luftwhiners don't decide if a plane should be added because it is interesting, fun in the MA, or useful for scenarios.
No, Luftwhiners base these decisions on what would be best for Germany in the persistent bizzaro Axis vs. Allied FA world they all dream of.
There are hints that the A-26 is coming to AH... quit squeaking about it and be thankful.
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What Rendar said. :)
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Some nice pics of a -66-DL at the bottom of this page: http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/attack/a4/a4-7.htm (http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/attack/a4/a4-7.htm)
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Originally posted by Montezuma:
Yes.
Unlike most players, Luftwhiners don't decide if a plane should be added because it is interesting, fun in the MA, or useful for scenarios.
No, Luftwhiners base these decisions on what would be best for Germany in the persistent bizzaro Axis vs. Allied FA world they all dream of.
There are hints that the A-26 is coming to AH... quit squeaking about it and be thankful.
Hmm was i squeaking? Nope, I would like to see the A26 added dingles. But I do not think it is wise to add when JP, Ita, and SU need a twin first. Hmm that sounds like Luftwhinin to me there :rolleyes: As far as adding a german plane I think the Me-410 would fit in quite nice in the MA as it is. And where are these hints coming from? Just curious.
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Originally posted by Montezuma:
Yes.
Unlike most players, Luftwhiners don't decide if a plane should be added because it is interesting, fun in the MA, or useful for scenarios.
No, Luftwhiners base these decisions on what would be best for Germany in the persistent bizzaro Axis vs. Allied FA world they all dream of.
There are hints that the A-26 is coming to AH... quit squeaking about it and be thankful.
Montezuma.
There are three american bombers in AH, one of each class (light/medium/heavy). Out of a total of six bombers, three are american.
I would think that anyone in his senses would say "please no more american buffs for a good while". But we all know yoo are da ma5t3r, true?. Because anyone saying that 50% of bombers of just one nation are too much,and that we need other nations' bombers before another american one, is an absolute LWhine, true?. No matter that many non-lw-people say exactly the same, it STILL is a LWhine.
What a moron you are,man. I wish Rude started a "jerk of the week" thread series. you'd be the first champion by a wide margin :rolleyes:
[ 11-26-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]
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Sachs,
There was a hint at the Con, but no announcment. When Pyro introduced the A-26 pilot who spoke at the con he mention that AH would be getting an A-26. He didn't say when, but the implication seemed to be soon, maybe in 1.09 or 1.1.
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Ok Karnak thanks for the info. Just that I don't appreciate the jack bellybutton response by what's his name above. Read first before you speak. :)
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Say 'luftwhiner' and ears perk up.
Originally posted by R4M:
I would think that anyone in his senses would say "please no more american buffs for a good while". But we all know yoo are da ma5t3r, true?. Because anyone saying that 50% of bombers of just one nation are too much,and that we need other nations' bombers before another american one, is an absolute LWhine, true?. No matter that many non-lw-people say exactly the same, it STILL is a LWhine.
The only people crying about the A-26 so far have FW-190 or JG in their sig.
Would adding an A-20 or B-25 be acceptable to you if it were painted in British or Russian colors? Why does it even matter what nationality a plane is if it would be fun in the MA and useful in scenarios?
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Originally posted by Montezuma:
Say 'luftwhiner' and ears perk up.
NO, you say a stupidity and ears perk up on the stupid who said it. Get your facts straight.
Would adding an A-20 or B-25 be acceptable to you if it were painted in British or Russian colors? Why does it even matter what nationality a plane is if it would be fun in the MA and useful in scenarios?
No, wont be acceptable. There are plenty of Brit and soviet buffs to model in their own colors. Pe2, Pe3, Tu2, Wellington, Halifax, Blenheim, Beaufighter, Bomber mosquito...And lots of buffs more.
I keep what I said. 50% of american buffs is enough. Please model other nation's planes.
and stop the luftwhiner stupid thing.
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Montezuma there are still countries who doesn't have any bomber modelled in AH(SovietUnion, Italy, Japan) and also there's a country whose only un-perked Bomber came to service December-40 (Ju-88).
Shouldn't these have latewar bombers before U.S gets another '44-'45 bomber?
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RAM,
You left out the Pe-8.
That'd be a fun bomber. Gunners in the rear of the inner engine nacelles. :D
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I still stick to my belief that the IL-10 would be one fun ride. Better then the IL-2.
As for the whole "luftwhiner" thing, why not just bury it? I've seen more civlized 10 year olds(and that's in PUBLIC schools). Yellin' at eachother isn't a good way to impress newbies coming into the game/genre.
My two pesos.
-Chris-
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I think the A 26 would be an awsome addation,but I agree that a Buff(or twin) for Italy, and Russia would be nice to see first. They both have bombers that would be fun to fly in the MA not just planes to add collor, planes that would be functional. Cant Z 1007 and TU 2 come to mind to name but 2. I am prety shure the Ki 67 is a done deal. The only reasion I tend to protest at the inclushion of yet another US anything is because thier are so many cool planes from other countries that could be added that would be fun to use in the MA and we have so much US equipment right now.
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Originally posted by Staga:
Montezuma there are still countries who doesn't have any bomber modelled in AH(SovietUnion, Italy, Japan) and also there's a country whose only un-perked Bomber came to service December-40 (Ju-88).
Shouldn't these have latewar bombers before U.S gets another '44-'45 bomber?
What 44-45 bomber does the US have now? What bomber from Italy do you want to add from 44-45?
I don't care if the countries' air forces aren't equal. They were not equal in the war and this is not Fighter Ace.
It is fine with me whatever planes HTC adds, the more the better. Of course everyone has preferences, but asking HTC NOT to work on the A-26 is pathetic.
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listen he isn't asking to not work on the A-26B i personally would love to see an A-26B in the arena as it would bring more jabo to the arena and it's a cool plane, i'd love to see B-25Hs, and B-29s, but right now we need to represent other countries. Germanies fine i'm happy with the planeset but we need a good buff Ju-88 isn't that great with it's guns. I'm thinking a Ju-188 or He-177. Sure they weren't produced in the astronomical numbers as American buffs but they produced a lot of them, Germany wasn't concentrated on bombing late in the war, they were focused on killing Bombers which is why many of their planes had big guns (Fw-190, Me-262, Bf-109series with gondolas etc..)
A Tu-2 would be great for the SU, Ki-67 we're getting for Japan (at least I heard) and Ju-188 or He-177 for Germans, maybe throw an Italian buff in if it's good and was produced in enough numbers.
And please don't insult me or fellow LW aircraft fans. We're not whining because we don't want to see a A-26B, hell I'd love to see it, I choose to fly 190s and neither you or anyone else can sway my opinion, you may like American planes which is terrific, it's great to have a planeset you like but you don't see me insulting you.
<S!> just wing up, get kills, have fun!!
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Originally posted by Soviet:
listen he isn't asking to not work on the A-26B i personally would love to see an A-26B in the arena as it would bring more jabo to the arena and it's a cool plane, i'd love to see B-25Hs, and B-29s, but right now we need to represent other countries. Germanies fine i'm happy with the planeset but we need a good buff Ju-88 isn't that great with it's guns. I'm thinking a Ju-188 or He-177. Sure they weren't produced in the astronomical numbers as American buffs but they produced a lot of them, Germany wasn't concentrated on bombing late in the war, they were focused on killing Bombers which is why many of their planes had big guns (Fw-190, Me-262, Bf-109series with gondolas etc..)
A Tu-2 would be great for the SU, Ki-67 we're getting for Japan (at least I heard) and Ju-188 or He-177 for Germans, maybe throw an Italian buff in if it's good and was produced in enough numbers.
And please don't insult me or fellow LW aircraft fans. We're not whining because we don't want to see a A-26B, hell I'd love to see it, I choose to fly 190s and neither you or anyone else can sway my opinion, you may like American planes which is terrific, it's great to have a planeset you like but you don't see me insulting you.
<S!> just wing up, get kills, have fun!!
Well said there Soviet. Damn if I were not a Luftwhiner I would have said damn more GE!!!!!!! BUt anything but more Us bufs I don't care if it is any other country I just want to see diversity, wow is that a LW whine there? You are right a Tu-2 is way to german stop the insanity now. Which I would love to see an Il-10 hell yeah bring it into the MA, JP ITA, SU anything but please we have enough US buffs for now, get it keyword is now. I would love to see the A-26 beuty of a plane but not now. Add the other contries or what will we have an entire arena of what Kamasutra says and I quote (What 44-45 bomber does the US have now? What bomber from Italy do you want to add from 44-45?
) love muffin Italy did not fight after what time period? :rolleyes: Kamasutra get a grip go back home ask Dad for his books and read a little. We want diversity more then anything and if that is a LW whine then you really need to see Freud. Tard award goes to Montezuma, sorry for being harsh but somebody has to make the kiddies get offline before their parents do.
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Originally posted by Sachs:
love muffin Italy did not fight after what time period? :.
The Italian co-belligerent air force fought until the end of the war, you're a luftweirdo that needs history lessons and an English class.
My sarcastic statement about the need for late war Italian bombers is lost on you regardless.
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I get stuck on what I said. You're an prettythang, Montezuma.
P.S.:The B17G is a late43/44 bomber. Just as the B26B.
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The B-17G in AH is a 1944 version.
There isn't much difference, but the tail turret has more travel. The B-17Gs produced in 1943/early 1944 had the older type of tail turret.
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No, wont be acceptable. There are plenty of Brit and soviet buffs to model in their own colors.
Blimey - I agree with RAM :D :D
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Does our B17 have stagered waist guns too? They often came with the cheyanne tail gun turret.
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GRUNHERZ,
I just checked, and yes, the waist guns are staggered. The left waist gun is further ahead than the right waist gun is.
About the A-26 being a perk plane. In mo opinion the A-26 doesn't have the performance to warrant perking, it isn't staggeringly fast and it doesn't have the most incredible defensive firepower either. The A-26 may suffer the Mosquito FB.VI's fate and end up in the Fighter/Attack category, but I don't see it being perked.
There are only 3 bombers that I see as perk worthy (and I know many disagree with me on one of them), the B-29A Superfortress, the Ar234B Blitz and the Mosquito B.XVI.
Some armaments may be perk worthy, such as the 12,000lb and 22,000lb British bombs, the Japanese MXY7 Ohka (Cherry Blossom) "Baka" and, if HTC were to go down that road, nuclear bombs.
[ 11-28-2001: Message edited by: Karnak ]
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I'm interested in the concept of perking specific ordinance.
In the same line of thought, should some ordinance give higher perks? The bouncing bomb? The german anti-buff rockets? Ordinance the use of which implies a very high risk application?
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Having been an avid A-26 pilot in AW, UNTIL the Me-110 was introduced. The Me-110 makes mince meat of the vader!! Unless he runs :(
NUTTZ
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RAM you have a point but the B-25 is a MUST for any WWII sim. And if you model the airframe you might as well do the variants. And if you do the variants then an RAF/Commonwealth version and a VVS version are appropriate.
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There are much better choices before another US plane. The Tu2, Pe8, IL10, P1008(?), SM79, Ju188, He177 to name a few. Pe8 was produced in small numbers, but like Karnak said, it would be a cool addition. If I remember, some of them used diesel (lol) engines. Carried a helluva bombload and had good defensive armament. Tu2 would be a great fast light bomber. I fly LW planes, but at this point some other countries need planes to round out their plane sets before every American piston engine plane ever flown is modeled.
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Mirroring what Montezuma said, what difference does it make what the nationality of a particular plane is if it's fun to fly in the MA?
If there are certain PLANES that you want to see then that's fine, but the NATIONALITY shouldn't be a factor.
Adding the A26 isn't even the subject of this thread :rolleyes:
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Funked, I dont say it hasn't. I just say there are several other planes I'd like to see before. And not, not all of them german :D
Originally posted by Specterx:
If there are certain PLANES that you want to see then that's fine, but the NATIONALITY shouldn't be a factor.
Adding the A26 isn't even the subject of this thread :rolleyes:
Specterx, you might not mind the nationality. Most people do. So please talk in your name and not in other's :)
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No Allied Jets! Axis has two! Need Allied jets before anything else! Whaaaa!
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Why not an A-26C Invader?
-Chris-
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Besides the P-38J and the occasional ride in the Ju87 Uber-fighter, the Me110 was a favorite ride for me in AW. Like NUTTZ said, it could make mince meat out of the 'Vader and pretty much all of the other planes. Only thing that sucked in the Me110 was when all the cannon ammo would run out and you were left with machine guns that might as well be shooting spitwads for the damage they did.
ack-ack
Originally posted by NUTTZ:
Having been an avid A-26 pilot in AW, UNTIL the Me-110 was introduced. The Me-110 makes mince meat of the vader!! Unless he runs :(
NUTTZ
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack:
Besides the P-38J and the occasional ride in the Ju87 Uber-fighter, the Me110 was a favorite ride for me in AW. Like NUTTZ said, it could make mince meat out of the 'Vader and pretty much all of the other planes. Only thing that sucked in the Me110 was when all the cannon ammo would run out and you were left with machine guns that might as well be shooting spitwads for the damage they did.
ack-ack
Shirley y'all jest. Th 26 and 110 in AW were flyin targets for all but the youngest of baby seals. Thier only attribute was a mismodeled ability to out turn a zeke but just as in fightin a zeke, only the young, cute,and fuzzy tried to out turn them.
Once a pile-it progressed from the baby seal Lufberry to use of the vertical 26's and 110's became no more than stat padders.An easy kill waitin to happen.
As far as thier use in AH, perhaps when they're new you'll see some in the arena like we did the JU88 and IL but after the new wears off you'll only see them flown in scenarios where they fit historically and by the baby seals for a hop or two.
I just want to add this: I don't understand why the Luftweiners want German bombers. They won't be used in the MA. The 17's and Lancs are gonna be the ride of choice for fluffers because they are tougher, better armed and carry a bigger load. As far as scenarios, well ok yall can have'em far as I'm concerned. Worthless as they may be.