Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: hitech on August 04, 2009, 11:35:25 AM
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I believe I know what is causing some stutters on peoples systems. But the coding fix is not trivial so I want to be sure it is what is causing the issue before I do the rewrite.
This is only relevant if you are running detailed terrain and having lots of stutters. What I need people who have this problem is do some test for me.
Please do all these first test off line with ndisles terrain.
1. Go into the tower at, I.E. it is the default. And lower clip board.
Wait about 15 secs doing nothing. Now look right, Did the View stutter as it paned around?
2. Release the right view ,after you have been looking forward, look right again, was there stuttering this time?
3. Turn off detail terrain, Save it by pressing ok, Exit game , then repeat test 1 and 2.
4. Fly online with detail terrain OFF for a while, did almost all you stuttering go away?
HiTech
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Not sure if you saw this thread or the one linked to it: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,270594.0.html It might give you more clues.
I'll try the tests later this evening.
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HiTech, if you can give me until after 6 p.m. central today, I have 2 systems (maybe 3 if I can get my ati9600 pro system running) that I can test on.
You want the dxdiag hardware/driver info included with the test results?
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I tried the tests and I'm not getting any stutters, the only time I get stutters it seems, or at least when they are most noticeable is when I begin to roll in a plane, with detail terrain on.
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1. With advanced terrain details: Stutter
2. No stutter
3.1 Without terrain detail: Stutter
3.2 No stutter
4. Fyling online without terrain detail:
To some extend...
When I up and fly over a friendly field, I get initial stutter, i.e first time I bring clipboard up , look back, rolling my plane (think its some ground textures that's being loaded )
Over time stutter reduces or even goes away (flying solo over water). But getting to a "new" enemy base -> stutter fest. New enemies getting into view -> stutter. Bringing up clipboard in fight then -> massive stutter.
Interestingly I even get stutters when sitting in Oclub on a base not under attack, for prolonged time, staring at the wall. They happen each time a friendly spawns on runway, though it seems only as long this is a "new" type of plane (Second P51 spawning doesn't seem to trigger stutter, but I can't say for 100%)
I experience no stutter at all when not running game in compatibility mode, but that's making the game unstable: Minimizing results in almost certain lockup, when not minimzing I was able to play 15mins to 2.5h until I got spinning clipboard bug. (But that's much better than 2.13 which wasn't playable for any amount of time without compatibility mode)
AMD 64 X2 4200 2GB
GF 9600GT 512 MB
XP SP3
SB Live! & AH stock sounds
Track Ir
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1. No
2. No
3. No
4. Yes almost. Still there but not as noticeable
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1. Go into the tower at, I.E. it is the default. And lower clip board.
Wait about 15 secs doing nothing. Now look right, Did the View stutter as it paned around? (In pan view mode) Yes it stuttered as I panned 360 degrees
2. Release the right view ,after you have been looking forward, look right again, was there stuttering this time? Yes, but less of a stutter
3. Turn off detail terrain, Save it by pressing ok, Exit game , then repeat test 1 and 2.
1. Go into the tower at, I.E. it is the default. And lower clip board.
Wait about 15 secs doing nothing. Now look right, Did the View stutter as it paned around? Yes it stuttered as I panned 360 degrees
2. Release the right view ,after you have been looking forward, look right again, was there stuttering this time? Yes, but less of a stutter
4. Fly online with detail terrain OFF for a while, did almost all you stuttering go away? Nope still there sir, like PK said, most of the time while rolling the plane.
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Offline with ndisles, default tower, enabled pan [F8]:
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee35/lengro/ah2143_ahss0.jpg)
Wait 15sec, now pan right:
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee35/lengro/ah2143_ahss1.jpg)
On first 360 degrees I get stutters as (Cnt=) starts counting and "Used" increases (as shown in above pictures)
I continue the right pan for several revolutions and now its very smooth at 59-60fps, only interrupted by 2 or 3 very small (almost unnoticeable) stutters on every revolution.
Now disable detailed terrain and restart game:
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee35/lengro/ah2143_ahss2.jpg)
Again I get stutters on first right pan and "Used" increases.
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee35/lengro/ah2143_ahss3.jpg)
I can't see any stutters in the following revolutions.
Note #1: in game with absolute minimum settings (vsync=on) and running WinXP with less than 18 processes, I experience occasionally very small stutters, typically (but not always) when changing views.
Note #2: CPU is running with both cores - apparently I'm one of the lucky Athlon X2 users.
From DXDIAG:
Operating System: Windows XP Professional (5.1, Build 2600) Service Pack 3 (2600.xpsp_sp3_gdr.090206-1234)
Processor: AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4200+, MMX, 3DNow (2 CPUs), ~2.5GHz
Memory: 2048MB RAM
DirectX Version: DirectX 9.0c (4.09.0000.0904)
DxDiag Version: 5.03.2600.5512 32bit Unicode
Card name: NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT
Display Memory: 512.0 MB
Current Mode: 1920 x 1200 (32 bit) (60Hz)
Driver Version: 6.14.0011.9038 (English)
Driver Date/Size: 7/14/2009 20:54:00, 5842816 bytes
Description: SB Audigy 4 [8000]
Default Sound Playback: Yes
Default Voice Playback: Yes
Hardware ID: PCI\VEN_1102&DEV_0008&SUBSYS_10211102&REV_00
Type: WDM
Driver Name: ctaud2k.sys
Driver Version: 6.00.0001.1371 (English)
Driver Attributes: Final Retail
Date and Size: 6/23/2009 13:36:24, 528408 bytes
Driver Provider: Creative
HW Accel Level: Full
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Computer illiterate question, ho can you tell both processers are running?
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- Test A B C
- 1 Y N Y
- 2 N N N
- fps 59 85 85
A = Detailed Terrain on (and Detailed Water + Reflection on)
B = Detailed Terrain off
C = Detailed Terrain on but Detailed Water off
4 (online w Detailed Terrain off)- no stutters and fps pegged at 85.
3GHz E8400, 4GB RAM, HD4850 512M, XP SP3, 1280x1024 w 1024 textures, 4xAA, 8xAF
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ten367th
1. yes stutter
2. no stutter
3(1) no
3(2) no
4 A little stutter but not bad.
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Computer illiterate question, ho can you tell both processers are running?
The easiest way is to run the taskmanager in the background before you start the game - run the game for a while, then exit. Now check the CPU activity in the taskmanager. If both were high until you stopped the game, you are using both cores.
If you are running in compatibility mode you are only using a single core.
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Cc, I run comp. Mode thanks
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Lusche: You running in compatibility mode or not?
HiTech
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Lusche: You running in compatibility mode or not?
HiTech
I did both for testing purposes. All stutter issues and varying FR only when running in compatibility mode.
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ran test lusche and i are exp same thing
dellxps gen5
dual 3.0 intels
8800 gts 320mg
3 gigs crucial
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ten367th
1. yes stutter
2. no stutter
3(1) no
3(2) no
4 A little stutter but not bad.
My results mirror ten367th
Jenks
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I'll try and do the test tonight, but without detailed terrain on i was able to play Sunday without any stutters.
With detailed terrain on, no matter what resolution (128 to 1024 hi res), even if the detail/ground vis sliders are all the way to the right, it stutters.
That's using TrackIr, not hat switches.
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1. Go into the tower at, I.E. it is the default. And lower clip board.
Wait about 15 secs doing nothing. Now look right, Did the View stutter as it paned around?
Yes
2. Release the right view ,after you have been looking forward, look right again, was there stuttering this time?
No
3. Turn off detail terrain, Save it by pressing ok, Exit game , then repeat test 1 and 2.
No and No
4. Fly online with detail terrain OFF for a while, did almost all you stuttering go away?
Still some stuttering, major Frame Rate fluctuations, from 7 to 60. Not sure if this is relevent or normal, but my CPU is pegged at 100% when in game.
DXDIAG
Time of this report: 8/4/2009, 22:30:19
Machine name:
Operating System: Windows XP Home Edition (5.1, Build 2600) Service Pack 3 (2600.xpsp_sp3_gdr.090206-1234)
Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
System Manufacturer: HP Pavilion 061
System Model: PP163AA-ABA A800N
BIOS: Rev. 3.11
Processor: AMD Athlon(tm) XP 3200+, MMX, 3DNow, ~2.2GHz
Memory: 1536MB RAM
Page File: 867MB used, 2567MB available
Windows Dir: C:\WINDOWS
DirectX Version: DirectX 9.0c (4.09.0000.0904)
Card name: ATI Radeon HD 3650 AGP
Manufacturer: ATI Technologies Inc.
Chip type: ATI display adapter AGP (0x9596)
DAC type: Internal DAC(400MHz)
Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_9596&SUBSYS_00281787&REV_00
Display Memory: 512.0 MB
Current Mode: 1680 x 1050 (32 bit) (60Hz)
Monitor: Plug and Play Monitor
Monitor Max Res: 1600,1200
Driver Name: ati2dvag.dll
Driver Version: 6.14.0010.6822 (English)
DDI Version: 9 (or higher)
Driver Attributes: Final Retail
Driver Date/Size: 6/2/2008 23:21:06, 306688 bytes
WHQL Logo'd: No
WHQL Date Stamp: None
VDD: n/a
Mini VDD: ati2mtag.sys
Mini VDD Date: 6/3/2008 02:20:54, 3100160 bytes
Device Identifier: {D7B71EE2-D6D6-11CF-916E-2220A1C2CB35}
Vendor ID: 0x1002
Device ID: 0x9596
SubSys ID: 0x00281787
Revision ID: 0x0000
Revision ID: 0x0000
Video Accel: ModeMPEG2_C ModeMPEG2_D ModeWMV8_A ModeWMV9_A
Hope this helps.
ttflier
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1. Go into the tower at, I.E. it is the default. And lower clip board.
Wait about 15 secs doing nothing. Now look right, Did the View stutter as it paned around?
Yes. If I go left it isn't nearly as bad until I reach the right side.
2. Release the right view ,after you have been looking forward, look right again, was there stuttering this time?
Yes. Same as before.
3. Turn off detail terrain, Save it by pressing ok, Exit game , then repeat test 1 and 2.
Yes - but better. Now if I go left it doesn't stutter at all till I reach the right side.
Pentium D 840 3.2GHz
HIS HD 2600 Pro with latest ATI drivers - Catalyst disabled.
4 GBs Corsair RAM
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Please do all these first test off line with ndisles terrain.
1. Go into the tower at, I.E. it is the default. And lower clip board.
Wait about 15 secs doing nothing. Now look right, Did the View stutter as it paned around?
Yes
2. Release the right view ,after you have been looking forward, look right again, was there stuttering this time?
No
3. Turn off detail terrain, Save it by pressing ok, Exit game , then repeat test 1 and 2.
1. Yes
1. Yes
4. Fly online with detail terrain OFF for a while, did almost all you stuttering go away?
Almost
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Dell Dimension 9150 Dual Core 2.8ghz 4gb RAM Nvidia 9800
Please do all these first test off line with ndisles terrain.
1. Go into the tower at, I.E. it is the default. And lower clip board.
Wait about 15 secs doing nothing. Now look right, Did the View stutter as it paned around?
Yes
2. Release the right view ,after you have been looking forward, look right again, was there stuttering this time?
Yes
3. Turn off detail terrain, Save it by pressing ok, Exit game , then repeat test 1 and 2.
NO
4. Fly online with detail terrain OFF for a while, did almost all you stuttering go away?
NO , was getting around it (until today with TT Terrain) with a Hard Boot.
This series of actions seemed to have cleared it up even with Detailed terrain re-enabled.
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I figured that out the other day. I turned off detail terrain and the shutter stopped and my frame rate went up to a point (30-35 FR) I can now play the game.
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1. Yes
2. No
3. No
4. No
Flying online with G-Detail off I still get a slight stutter so I'm unsure if I'm looking at 2 problems (one being with my PC I mean). I'll try more testing and if I find a problem will let you know.
Processor: Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.40GHz
Memory: 1022MB RAM
Card Radeon X1650 Series (256MB)
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1. Yes
2. No
3. Same as 1&2
4. Yes (almost all)
core 2 duo 2.8 ghz nvidia 8800 GS 2 gb ram
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1= yes
2= yes
3= yes
4= yes
5= not as much on line as usual.
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1. Go into the tower at, I.E. it is the default. And lower clip board.
Wait about 15 secs doing nothing. Now look right, Did the View stutter as it paned around?
yes
2. Release the right view ,after you have been looking forward, look right again, was there stuttering this time?
no
3. Turn off detail terrain, Save it by pressing ok, Exit game , then repeat test 1 and 2.
no
no
4. Fly online with detail terrain OFF for a while, did almost all you stuttering go away?
yes
amd64 x2 6000+ 3.1ghz
3gb ram
XP sp3
geforce9800gt
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1. Go into the tower at, I.E. it is the default. And lower clip board.
Wait about 15 secs doing nothing. Now look right, Did the View stutter as it paned around?
yes
2. Release the right view ,after you have been looking forward, look right again, was there stuttering this time?
no
3. Turn off detail terrain, Save it by pressing ok, Exit game , then repeat test 1 and 2.
no
no
4. Fly online with detail terrain OFF for a while, did almost all you stuttering go away?
yes, very slight stuttering fps 50-60
intel e6300 wolfdale, 2 gigs ocz ram ddr2 800, 8600gt pcie
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Thanks for the help. Todays patch will have less stutters but the fix I need to write to almost eliminate the stutters of this type is a little more involved to fix, and is a 1 or 2 maybe more days of work if what I am thinking of becomes more complicated than I envision
So we decided to release today , and then start the surgery to minimize this type of stutter. It is caused when you cross a 1 mile cell boundary and the terrain has to be rebuild and loaded.
HiTech
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thanks for the update on the update to the update HT. :x :salute
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Hope yall are getting some rest.
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I just tried it,but for some reason the page that gives the detailed terrain option was spinning around the clipboard and I couldnt click the box to enable it. I dont use pan I use instant view.
I've had it happen before,but for some reason today it wouldnt stop spining. By spinning I mean it shows the second page of the clipboard attached at the top corner, but it rotates from that corner,in staggered fashion.
I didnt see a stutter when I tested, but the clipboard page spin was not right.
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Don't have time to run the test right now, but I'm pretty sure I know what is causing the stuttering on my game. Keep in mind, my PC is new, it can run Crysis, Far cry 2, call of duty 4 etc. with the highest graphics settings. On AH I have AA on max, 1024 texture, and all of the graphic settings maxed out except for smooth shadow, and I get 60 FR. When I turn on smooth shadow, my FR drop to 45 and I get stuttering. So I'm willing to bet that smooth shadow is causing some problems...
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I just tried it,but for some reason the page that gives the detailed terrain option was spinning around the clipboard and I couldnt click the box to enable it. I dont use pan I use instant view.
AMD dual core?
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AMD Quad core.
I just downloaded the update, and now when I enter an arena its dark, and the thing just locks up.
Specs:
HP
AMD Phenom X4
9650 Quad-core
8GB ram
ATI RadeonHD 3200
Vista
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Try it in 98 compatabilty mode
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Try it in 98 compatabilty mode
+1
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I get micro stutters still with detailed terrain my frame rate jumps all over as well i have seen it go to 59 down to 20. I have amd dual core.
Without detailed still micro stutters. It crashes out a lot as well. I noticed that when I talk and there's a lot going on is when it crashes.
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Looks to be getting better from my perspective.
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I just spent a couple of hours on and it seems to be working much better for me. Detailed terrain and water with bump, a very minimal of stutters and almost none on the view hat switch. Still have some frame rate issues, but I'm not that sure that the FR problems are more related to my computer and running processes.
Thanks Hitech!
ttflier
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**Showing my age here**
But Code is a PITA, here is an old language once used probably before some of you where born called "BASIC"
Moon Patrol still Rocks!
10 Start
20 Check Account Balance
30 If Overdue GOTO 110
40 If Paid On Time GOTO 50
50 Draw Aircraft
60 Enable Flight
70 Take Off under program: Autopilot 10 - 100
80 Position Nose behind Y
90 Multiply Score X 1000
100 GOTO 20
110 Draw Aircraft with Hot Pink Skin under program: Cheap Bastard 10 - 100
120 Enable Flight
130 Take off under program: Autopilot 110 - 200
140 Initiate Gravity Effects = 0
150 Initiate Flat Spin
160 Relabel Aircraft as Y
170 Play Music = BECK "Looser"
180 Initiate Stutter Graphics
190 Multiply Score X -1000
200 GOTO 20
:x
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a8hattrick you are a nut ! ! ! ! !(S)
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Very few studders in 98comp mode, fr still pegged. Can run shadows but stutters some, not too much. Still having mouse lock ups on start screen but I can fix that before loggin. Thanx HTC!
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1. Yes
2. No
3. No
4. No
Flying online with G-Detail off I still get a slight stutter so I'm unsure if I'm looking at 2 problems (one being with my PC I mean). I'll try more testing and if I find a problem will let you know.
Processor: Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.40GHz
Memory: 1022MB RAM
Card Radeon X1650 Series (256MB)
Looks fixed for me
Just retested and got
1.No
2.No
3.No
4.No
I still get a slight stutter occasionally but I strongly suspect that is down to my machine and an I/O problem I'm trying to diagnose.
Thanks
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Dell Dimension 9150 Dual Core 2.8ghz 4gb RAM Nvidia 9800
Please do all these first test off line with ndisles terrain.
1. Go into the tower at, I.E. it is the default. And lower clip board.
Wait about 15 secs doing nothing. Now look right, Did the View stutter as it paned around?
Yes
2. Release the right view ,after you have been looking forward, look right again, was there stuttering this time?
Yes
3. Turn off detail terrain, Save it by pressing ok, Exit game , then repeat test 1 and 2.
NO
4. Fly online with detail terrain OFF for a while, did almost all you stuttering go away?
YES , was getting around it (until today with TT Terrain) with a Hard Boot.
This series of actions seemed to have cleared it up even with Detailed terrain re-enabled.
I do this with a Fresh Reboot and it works 80% of the Time.
I've had two instances where the game locked up when I selected "Detailed Water" & tried to go Online.
I re-ran the process and game started up with no ill effects.
I've also had a couple of instances where I had to run the process (outlined above by HT) two or three times or until I rebooted.
Today I was getting 125FPS with no stutters in BigTrinity and Fur allover.
Just follow the instructions and there will be a fix ASAP.
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Dell Dimension 9150 Dual Core 2.8ghz 4gb RAM Nvidia 9800
Please do all these first test off line with ndisles terrain.
1. Go into the tower at, I.E. it is the default. And lower clip board.
Wait about 15 secs doing nothing. Now look right, Did the View stutter as it paned around?
Yes
2. Release the right view ,after you have been looking forward, look right again, was there stuttering this time?
Yes
3. Turn off detail terrain, Save it by pressing ok, Exit game , then repeat test 1 and 2.
NO
4. Fly online with detail terrain OFF for a while, did almost all you stuttering go away?
YES, was getting around it (until today with TT Terrain) with a Hard Boot.
This series of actions seemed to have cleared it up even with Detailed terrain re-enabled.