Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Ghastly on August 06, 2009, 06:38:14 PM
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SAMSUNG F2380 Black 23" 8ms(GTG) Widescreen CPVA panel LCD Monitor 300 cd/m2 DC 150000:1(3000:1) w/height & swivel adjustment
Seems great from the specs - and it truly does have phenomenal color, saturation and contrast. But I have NO idea how they get the 8 ms response specification - it ghosts almost as bad as the 5 year old 40 MS Sony SDM-HX93 I have left over from an upgrade at work.
Caveat emptor. I wish I'd seen the one review that seems to (correctly) point out the ghosting problem before I ordered - rather than the day after.
<S>
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Ahhh, the response time is now a marketing tool and has changed on how it is measured. This is done to get lower numbers without actually improving the technology. Never trust the advertised response time.
Ain't hindsight nifty?
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Agreed. :(
I kind of knew I was taking a chance with it - it's a brand new release with a new variant of the PVA panel, and neither PVA or IPS are generally considered suitable for gaming - but I'd hoped the stuff I was reading was correct - from what I'd read, it sounded as though they'd claimed they'd managed to up the response time on the panel to close to that of TN.
And after spending an hour playing on it, I definately think "claimed" is a wholly appropriate word here.
So... my email, web browsing machine, and general use system gets a nifty new widescreen monitor that I really didn't need for it - and I replaced the broken VP930b with the $100 Envision H1981 that I bought in a hurry at some point when I needed "just a monitor" that was being used on it. (Which actually plays surprisingly decent!)
And why oh why didn't I buy a really good CRT before they stopped making them? The 10 year old Hitachi just isn't clear enough any more to play on...
<S>
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Ahhh, the response time is now a marketing tool and has changed on how it is measured. This is done to get lower numbers without actually improving the technology. Never trust the advertised response time.
Skuzzy, how would you recommend buying a monitor?
I hate to say this but buying a 8ms response time is good for those taking LSD, the color blurring would probably make for some good times.
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isn't 2ms prefered for gaming?
cattb/Tim O
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Skuzzy, how would you recommend buying a monitor?
I hate to say this but buying a 8ms response time is good for those taking LSD, the color blurring would probably make for some good times.
If you cannot see it before you buy it, then do not buy it.
<snip>And why oh why didn't I buy a really good CRT before they stopped making them? The 10 year old Hitachi just isn't clear enough any more to play on...
I know what you mean. My Wife and I have two NEC professional series CRT's at home. She hates the LCD panel she has at work. I am going to miss these monitors when they die. I am just hoping they last long enough for a suitable technology to come along for them to be replaced. Of course, if my monitor dies first, things could get interesting at home. :)
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I've got a CRT that came with the Compaq I bought seven or eight years ago. Still beautiful as ever. :D Playing on LCDs generally gives me a headache.
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isn't 2ms prefered for gaming?
cattb/Tim O
All else being equal, the lower the better. The problem is that you can't tell from the published specifications what the response time actually is any more.... so how can you tell which are lower?
It's also subjective - what one person doesn't notice can cause another to have a siezure. In the past - when they were really measuring it - a good rule of thumb that anything more than 16 was likely to produce noticable blurring and ghosting, but that differences between panels that were (ACTUALLY) less than 16 would be undetectable. This is because the panel itself operates at a 60 hz refresh, and any blurring would last for less than a single frame. Again, it's subjective, so there's really no "hard and fast" rule.
In practice now however.... it appears that 8 can mean 8, or (apparently) 40 or so. So what exactly does 2 mean these days?
And unfortunately, even if I'd have seen this before I'd bought it I'd probably still have been suckered - it's truly better than any LCD I've seen to date for color saturation, spectrum, sharpness, and evenness. Since I doubt I'd have been able to detect the ghosting/blurring issue on the sales floor - even though it was instantly "in your face" when started AH - I probably have still done stupid. The kicker is, if it was rated "properly" for response time, I'd have rated it as 5 stars - because I'd only use it for the things at which it appears to be top-notch.
No, the real problem is not the monitor, but the misleading specification - which means that people are going to be "suckered" into using it for gaming, for which it's (clearly!) not suited.
<S>!
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I'd get ahold of newegg and explain the situation. Their customer service is phenominal. I'd be surprised if they didn't accomodate you.
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If you cannot see it before you buy it, then do not buy it.
How do you do that?
I can't think of anyone that sells monitors in my area unless I order them through a catalog. I don't think the retail chains like Best Buy et al sell anything but LCD TVs, so I can't even window shop there.
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I'd get ahold of newegg and explain the situation. Their customer service is phenominal. I'd be surprised if they didn't accomodate you.
Precisely what I was thinking. Get yourself a refund or exchange the monitor for something else.
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How do you do that?
I can't think of anyone that sells monitors in my area unless I order them through a catalog. I don't think the retail chains like Best Buy et al sell anything but LCD TVs, so I can't even window shop there.
I did not say it was a practical solution, but buying off a spec list is risky, at best.
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How do you do that?
I can't think of anyone that sells monitors in my area unless I order them through a catalog. I don't think the retail chains like Best Buy et al sell anything but LCD TVs, so I can't even window shop there.
Yes Best Buy and other retail chains do sell LCD monitors. I went there just the other day after checking online to see if they had the one I was looking at ONLINE and got the guys to do a test using a shooter on it to see if it was all it has been cracked up to be in the specifications. These guys see someone walking around with a sound card, hard drives, etc... and they practically break their back to get you something to check out a monitor if you ask nicely. At least the ones in the Best Buy stores here in Hoover, AL and Alabaster, AL. They want a sale BAD!!!!
Also check with your local big box store (Sams, Costco, et al...) to see if they have the monitors that you are looking at. They tend to set them up where you can see demos being played on them...also those same stores have great return policies in case you don't like what you have bought.
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I'd get ahold of newegg and explain the situation. Their customer service is phenominal. I'd be surprised if they didn't accomodate you.
I've asked - nicely - Customer Service via email if they won't let me exchange it for another monitor from them. If I don't hear back by end of day Monday, I'll request the same through the RMA process. If they can't or won't, I'll simply have a much nicer monitor than I need on a system that I wouldn't have upgraded the LCD on otherwise.
Mostly, I posted here because I didn't want to see anyone else make the same mistake - there was a lot of stuff floating around about how the new CPVA panel was going to be comparable to TN for gaming with far superior color at a comparable price.
<S>
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I'd get ahold of newegg and explain the situation. Their customer service is phenominal. I'd be surprised if they didn't accomodate you.
Unfortunately, not for monitors. They have a special monitor policy, and unless it has enough dead pixels, you're stuck with what you buy from Newegg. Unless you're sure its the monitor you want, I suggest avoiding newegg for monitor (LCD at least) purchases.
As for how you can pick a good LCD model, I always suggest this thread:
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=31&threadid=2049206&enterthread=y
Its my bible whenever its time to upgrade.
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Boilerdown is correct - I chatted with them at length and if I talk to Samsung and they tell me this one is defective, then I can call back and "we'd talk". Otherwise .... it's mine.
And as much as I love NewEgg, I just couldn't justify buying another monitor that I can't see first from them (to myself, let alone anyone else ... ) - so I ordered the BenQ to replace it from Buy.com.
BTW - if you ever do need to deal with Newegg on a customer service issue, I'd suggest using email versus chat. I went into it expecting that there was nothing they'd do for me - and still ended the conversation frustrated. Still, I've been buying stuff from them for over 6 years, and this is the first time they've ever let me down.
<S>
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Unfortunately, not for monitors. They have a special monitor policy, and unless it has enough dead pixels, you're stuck with what you buy from Newegg. Unless you're sure its the monitor you want, I suggest avoiding newegg for monitor (LCD at least) purchases.
As for how you can pick a good LCD model, I always suggest this thread:
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=31&threadid=2049206&enterthread=y
Its my bible whenever its time to upgrade.
Thank you for this information. I'm one of the many that pass by the return policy section assuming it's the standard 30-day return policy. This information will certainly assist me in making a more, "educated" buying decision.