Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: funkedup on November 29, 2001, 03:10:00 PM
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It's basically a Fw 190F-8 with ETC 503 wing racks for drop tanks or 250 kg bombs. Add in the 500 kg centerline bomb and you've got 2200 lb bombload. Sure it will fly like a drunk pig with this load but it would be useful.
And it should be a very simple variant to make. Just change the wing F-8 pylons, remove the cowl MG's, and make a new skin. Or use the same skin, leave the MG's on, and call it a Fw 190F-8/U1.
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No need when a decent number of operational F8s had those pylons too.
Want me to post pics of an operational 190F8 with DTs during summer'44 in france, Funked?.
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You mean an F-8/U1?
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Originally posted by funkedup:
You mean an F-8/U1?
Pic caption says "190F8". Seems was a photo taken during summer of 1944. The plane is camouflaged with vegetation to avoid being spotted by allied planes. The underwing drop tanks are clearly visible.
[ 11-29-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]
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The F8/U-1 was a two seat trainer that was never built.
The U-2 and U-3 were designed to carry a center mounted torpedo bomb.
From: The Great Book of World War II Airplanes
-SW
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The two seat trainer of the Fw190 series whas the 190S. Maybe there was a prototype called F8/U1, but Funked is basically right when he says that the F8/U1 was the one usually fitted with wing racks for DTs. When the 190G series came to a stop the F8/U1 was the version wich should take on the long range jabo role of the Fw190 equipped ground attack geschwaders.
However what I try to point is that
1-F8/U1 existed and was perfectly operational using wind 250kg bombs and drop tanks.
and
2-Not only the U1s were fitted with wing racks for 250kg-bombs and DTs.
[ 11-29-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]
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2-Not only the U1s were fitted with wing racks for 250kg-bombs and DTs
How can you say this?
By definition, an F-8 with ETC 503 is an F-8/U1.
[ 11-29-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]
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How?...because several jabo versions of the Fw190A5 and Fw190A8 were able to carry that loadout,too
Not to mention that several night jabo Rüsatze versions of the 190F8 were able to carry the DTs or wing bombs.
As you see, not just the 190F8s were able to carry those wing loads, funked :).
Just for the record, the normal Fw190F8s were able to carry either 50kg, 70kg or 160kg bombs in the wing racks. There was another thread down in the forum describing those loadouts.
Will do some research to see if 190F8 not being U1s were able to carry the 250kg bombs and/or DTs, too.
The wing rockets were used from late 1944 onwards and were able to make IS-2s blow like torches. I really think we DO miss them in the F8 inventory.
By the way, Funked...allow me to take this freedom...
Originally posted by FunkedUp:
F-8/U1 replaced the G-8 in production and was nearly identical. These were mass produced. They generally used either a centerline DT + 2 wing bombs or a centerline bomb + 2 wing DT, but for short range missions the 2 x 250 kg + 1 x 500 kg loadout could be used.
http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=9&t=000725 (http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=9&t=000725)
;)
[ 11-29-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]
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RAM F-8 with ETC 503 is a U1. That's what a U1 is. Maybe another U or R number (torpedo plane?) had the ETC 503 too, but if there is no U or R then there is no ETC 503.
All of the A series planes with wing racks had U or R designations too.
Your argument would be like if I found a picture of a Mustang with a bubble canopy and the caption said "P-51 Mustang". Then I could argue that because it said only "P-51" that any P-51 could also have a bubble canopy.
And I don't know why you post that quote of me, because it agrees 100% with my posts on this thread!
[ 11-29-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]
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Originally posted by funkedup:
All of the A series planes with wing racks had U or R designations too
Of course...and the 30mm-cannon fitted Fw190A8 was an R2...and the 109G6 with DT was an R(1?)...and the wing gondola G6 was an R6...
etc etc etc..why start nitpicking on "if it was an R or an U?...what matters was that the wing 250kg bombs WERE used in teh A series (And not just in a couple, BTW, the Fw190A5s with wing racks were quite very used in jabo raids over britain).
It was used. In numbers. The designation "excuse" is a poor one ;). Why isnt the option there?
Originally posted by funkedup:
And I don't know why you post that quote of me, because it agrees 100% with my posts on this thread!
Because you seem to be asking for the F8 to be replaced by a G8. No need to do it because according with that quote (according to the quote because I dont have any figures on production numbers), the Fw190F8/U1 was a MASS produced version of the F8 series. Wich would make the ETC503 wing rack for the 190F8 an even more legitim claim than what it is at this moment.
If the F8/U1 was a mass-produced version then why to title this thread "fw190G8" instead of "Fw190F8"? ;)
Another little present for the people...this was posted in http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=9&t=001637 (http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=9&t=001637)
(http://laika.sputcorp.com/temp/190f8.jpg)
Purty, isnt it? :)
[ 11-29-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]
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My first post asks for G-8 OR F-8/U1.
I'm going to shut up now because I think as usual we basically agree but are arguing because we are idiots. :D
[ 11-29-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]
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Originally posted by funkedup:
My first post asks for G-8 OR F-8.
I'm going to shut up now because I think as usual we basically agree but are arguing because we are idiots. :D
Funked, my answers are not nitpicking. That the loads were used on a "R-whatever" or "U-whatever" modification doesn't mean it can't be modelled in a generic Fw190F/A weapon option. In the first post you say "or change the F8 for an F8/U1"...
What the heck?. Why?. Let it as it is!!!!!!!!!
For instance the Fw190A5 lacks all the jabo options of the U3 jabo version even when those saw WIDE service. Why?. The wing rockets are there (wich makes it an Fw190A5/R6, yet noone seem to mind its listed under a "Fw190A5" mark). Why are the rockets there and not the wing bombs and DTs (not to mention the option to remove the useless cowl MGs)?
Why does the 190F8 lack the wing bombs and DTs?. Because is not listed as an F8/U1?. Please, that is laughable!
Where are the weapon options for the Jabo 190s?. We are talking about one of the most versatile planes in the war (the most versatile german plane,period) and we are discussing the issue. Heck, isnt this funny or what?
weren't the mosquitoes with 500lbs bombs in the bay a "serie 2" FB VI?...where is the "series 2" in the hangar list?. I dont see it. Remove the 500lb bomb option,please ;) (this is just kidding :D).
Why does the F8 lack the bombs?. And the DTs?. And the rockets?
...
Months asking, still waiting for an answer. And people still wonder why I'm pissed :(
[ 11-29-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]
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What about the rockets as well? (Well, at least my 1/48 scale F-8 has the rockets) :D
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note the external air intakes of the supercharger in the photo from R4M. The F series had two of them by default.
Someone should tell it Natedog
niklas
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Originally posted by niklas:
note the external air intakes of the supercharger in the photo from R4M. The F series had two of them by default.
Someone should tell it Natedog
niklas
Was just wondering about it at this moment, niklas, but was not sure that they were what they seem...wtf are doing those supercharger intakes in a low-level attack plane?
:confused:
[ 11-29-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]
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Niklas, the AH F-8 is modeled after the Smithsonian's Fw 190F-8/R1, which has no such intakes.
[ 11-29-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]
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Still, I'm wondering why a low-level attack plane will get those intakes, funked. I see no use for them...
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Those are the tropical filter intakes on the plane in that photo.
There were some similar looking intakes for high altitude usage (ram effect) but they are a little different.
[ 11-29-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]
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Originally posted by funkedup:
They held air filters I think.
Ahhhhh I see :). Now it makes sense.
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<PUNT>
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(http://laika.sputcorp.com/temp/190f8.jpg)
R4M,
You can call this a 190F8, but it is a 190A5 test bed.
ra
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Test bed my prettythang, RA. You are right, that ain't no F8 (have found that pic captioned in one of my books and its an A5/U3 in Russia,summer 1943). But, incidentally there were lots of 190A5/U3s. Some of them doing low level jabo raids in southern england. Some of them flying in Russia. Some of them in the Med.
That became such a common "test bed", ra,that the germans decided to build it as a standard version instead of an Umrust-Bausatze. It was later also known as Fw190G3.
WIth time the 190G3 walked ahead towards other versions. The latter of them was the Fw190G8, wich also had wing ETC503 racks. Finally the G series was stopped and replaced by the F8/U1 series, wich, incidentally was virtually identical to the Fw190G8.
So, I repeat...test bed my prettythang,Ra. The Fw190A5/U3 saw widespread service.
The Fw190A5 in AH, BTW, also lacks the wing bomb racks of the U3 version. And the Fw190F8 lacks the wing DTs and 250kg bombs.
[ 12-04-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]
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So it's an A5 after all? Then what are the bumps on the cowl?
ra
BTW, didn't you used to claim that it was a well established fact the the F8 came standard with the 250kg wing bombs/drop tanks? If so, why would they need to be 'modified' to become a G8?
I think the G8 would be nice to have in AH, though their history is even blurrier than the F8.
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Fw190F8/U1 was almost identical to the Fw190G8. No modification needed to become a G8. At all. In fact was ALL the other way. The 190G series were abandoned and were continued in the 190F8. (for the sake of making a standard jabo version instead of the two, redundant, versions there were at the time, the F and G series).
I never said the F8 had the wing racks as standard. I said, however, that the F8/U1 did, as did the 190G8 before it. Both versions were operational during WWII and saw service.
To add a Fw190G8 would be absolutely redundant and a waste of effort, when you can get the same in the F8 without sacrifizing a single bit of historical accuracy. The Fw190F8 also carried wing racks for DT and 250kg bombs.
According to the caption of the book with that pic, that is a Jabo Fw190A5 deployed in russia during summer of 1943. Seeing the wing bombs, its plain to see it was a Fw190A5/U3 with ETC503 bomb racks, wich at that time was seeing service in several zones of war.
Another clue that is not an F is that it lacks the bubble canopy. I was wrong when I first found that pic (posted by laika as a F-8 in the link I gave). I soon noticed the lack of the bubble canopy, tho.
[ 12-04-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]
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Pitot tube in the photo is on the right wing tip. That is a Fw 190F-8/U1 or a Fw 190G-8, or else some prototype based Fw 190A-8.
The bubble canopy was not used at the beginning of production for A-8 and the planes based on A-8 (F-8, G-8, D-9). If the plane has a bubble canopy you can be sure it is an A-8 or later. But the absence of the canopy does not always mean the plane is not A-8/F-8/G-8/D-9.
[ 12-04-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]
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The FW is sooooo small that the bombs look big. :D
Olivier "Frenchy" Raunier
(http://home.cfl.rr.com/rauns/looking_for_trouble.jpg)
63rd FS, 56th FG
"Zemke's Wolfpack"
Ammo cannot stand to pay our P47s repair bill anymore ...
Santa even talked about awarding me the Iron Cross!!!
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Oky guys time for me to show up ;)
This is the Fw 190F-8/trop WkNr 580383 CM+WL (notice the under wing "C", no SG gruppe had a unit code beginning with C) which was used for test on weapon arrangement. So you might be able to find picture of this one with a large variety of racks including ETC 503, ETC 71, ER4 on ETC 501, Panzerschreck 2, etc...
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Originally posted by butch2k:
Oky guys time for me to show up ;)
This is the Fw 190F-8/trop WkNr 580383 CM+WL (notice the under wing "C", no SG gruppe had a unit code beginning with C) which was used for test on weapon arrangement. So you might be able to find picture of this one with a large variety of racks including ETC 503, ETC 71, ER4 on ETC 501, Panzerschreck 2, etc...
...wich does not hurt the fact that the ETC503 racks were used operationally in the F8/U1 ;). Thanks for the identification butch!
Funked, that is a good one! I didnt notice the pitot tube thing.
Morale: seems that some books' captions really suck :D.
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Butch you are the man. :)
RAM I learned the hard way about captions. :)
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Stop the bickering and gimme the darned bombs. I need mein Jabo Wuerger with fries.