Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: Stoney on August 08, 2009, 09:12:04 AM
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Ladies and Gents,
Please read the objectives and/or CIC's ensure that you stress any special rules from the objectives in your orders. Multiple planes violated the rearm rule. You cannot rearm at inactive airfields. You can land at inactive airfields as long as your next action is to tower out. If you want to rearm, you must fly back and rearm at one of the active fields listed in the objectives.
I really don't want to be assessing penalties. These three frames look like they'll be pretty close as far as score goes, and I don't want one side or the other to win because the other side was penalized into a loss.
Thanks,
Stoney
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I think a couple of my guys did. :frown: Was so busy last night that I did not give it a 2nd thought till it was too late. My apologies to the Axis side.
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This is an honest question. When was the rearm rule communicated to the rank and file on the Axis side? The first I heard of it was about 50 minutes into the frame when someone was saying so on Country channel. The replies on country channel to it made it seem like other squads had no idea of the rule as well.
I ask because isn't this a flip flop of the usual guidelines of rearm and exiting to tower in FSO? Usually we rearm anywhere and try to land at our base of origin (damage sometimes forces us to land at nearest friendly field.)
Lack of knowledge of a rule isn't an excuse for breaking it, and I'm not asking for the penalties to not be assessed. I'm just wondering why everyone wasn't fully aware of the rule.
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This is an honest question. When was the rearm rule communicated to the rank and file on the Axis side? The first I heard of it was about 50 minutes into the frame when someone was saying so on Country channel. The replies on country channel to it made it seem like other squads had no idea of the rule as well.
I ask because isn't this a flip flop of the usual guidelines of rearm and exiting to tower in FSO? Usually we rearm anywhere and try to land at our base of origin (damage sometimes forces us to land at nearest friendly field.)
Lack of knowledge of a rule isn't an excuse for breaking it, and I'm not asking for the penalties to not be assessed. I'm just wondering why everyone wasn't fully aware of the rule.
This is why I said "and/or CIC's ensure that you stress any special rules from the objectives in your orders" in my first post. It was conspicuously printed in the objectives that each squad CO received via email, and that the CIC received via email. There is a reason for this rule, and I do check, both during the frame (if I've been shot down early like last night) or during my review of the logs.
Excerpt from the Frame 1 Objectives:
1. Fields. Fields shown with the aircraft Icon are active. No other airfields are active and may
not be used for rearm and refuel. You may land at inactive airfields, but the landings shall be
considered a ditch. Aircraft that rearm at an inactive field during the frame shall earn a penalty for
their side equal to one total point for each infraction. All airfields shall be used for initial
mission departures.
Active Axis Airfields: A10, A23, A26, A30, A34, A35, A36
For some reason, I never received a copy of the Axis orders, so I can't explain what was or was not communicated in them.
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Part of the problem is that I think some of the "rank and file" pilots don't feel a need to actually pay attention to the written orders.
I included the active bases in the Allied orders, and also made a point of issuing a reminder on Command 150 before the frame. I still had questions on "where can we rearm?" When I reminded one of them that it was also in the orders, he said "Oh, that's for bigger people than me to read." My guess is his C/O had logged and he was appointed to take over on Command Channel.
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As one of the rank and file, I can confirm that the list of active bases was included in the Axis orders.
And I still saw *many* requests on Axis country channel along the lines of "is it ok to land at..."
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I too am "just a line pilot", but still recieve and read the orders. Even though the Checkertails have great leadership and do a great job of telling us what's expected of us, it still never hurts to have a good idea before showing up.
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There were 3 documents in the email to Axis COs, 2 versions of the orders for the squad and the original objectives email from the CM. The rule about the fields wasn't published in the squad orders, it was only in the overall objectives document. Daddog just copied the squad orders to our squad email list, and that's where the disconnect was (for our squad anyways.) And as he said, he just forgot about it during the event itself.
From now on, I'll make sure to read the side objectives for any extra rules and constraints that might not make it into the squad orders documents. <S>
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YEA!! Read the objectives.
The way I understand it is...
Written orders over rule maps or any other media type.
The CM objectives over rule any CiC orders.
So, if I have written orders that conflict with the map I will follow the written orders. If the written CiC orders conflict with the CM Objectives I will still follow the CiC written orders but adjust to follow the CM objectives, therefore not violating any rules and still being combat efective.
Therefore read the objectives.
-Agent360, 2009
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YEA!! Read the objectives.
The way I understand it is...
Written orders over rule maps or any other media type.
The CM objectives over rule any CiC orders.
So, if I have written orders that conflict with the map I will follow the written orders. If the written CiC orders conflict with the CM Objectives I will still follow the CiC written orders but adjust to follow the CM objectives, therefore not violating any rules and still being combat efective.
Therefore read the objectives.
-Agent360, 2009
Well stated, but may I add: Inform the CiC of the discrepacy ASAP as it may affect more than 1 squad.
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YEA!! Read the objectives.
The way I understand it is...
Written orders over rule maps or any other media type.
The CM objectives over rule any CiC orders.
So, if I have written orders that conflict with the map I will follow the written orders. If the written CiC orders conflict with the CM Objectives I will still follow the CiC written orders but adjust to follow the CM objectives, therefore not violating any rules and still being combat efective.
Therefore read the objectives.
-Agent360, 2009
Not necessarily always the case, depends on the circumstance as such happened in Operation Husky Frame 2
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Well stated, but may I add: Inform the CiC of the discrepacy ASAP as it may affect more than 1 squad.
This is key in my opinion. I've been helping with the Fr2 orders, and it is exceptionally complicated (more so then you would think at first glance). If you spot an error, let the CiC know ASAP so he can fix it.
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We (USMC/71sqn) had one violation I believe, Ramon, but it was because of the confusion over our starting field. Our orders had us starting at Field A25, but we found that the correct field was A23, about a sector away. Ramon asked me if he could rearm, but I missed it, and he rearmed at what he thought was an active field, A25. I do remember reading restrictions on field usage, but for the life of me, I could not find it mentioned in the Axis orders. I had to ask about the active fields, so I would agree that the objectives and special rules should be included in orders. I will point out that there was a great deal of care put into the orders we recieved, and a simple reminder should be sufficient to make the point here.
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Regarding "Written orders over rule maps or any other media type"
Not necessarily always the case, depends on the circumstance as such happened in Operation Husky Frame 2
This was clarified some time back. The written orders over rule any other type of order.
In the last frame the the axis "short orders" were a table of all squads, rides, take off fields and targets. The take off field was wrong for our squad. I consulted the written orders. It was easy to see that we were supposed to take off from the field spec in the written orders due to what were supposed to defend.
Sometimes, we get multiple documents...maps, tables, etc.
It was established by the CM team that the WRITTEN orders over rule all other types. In the Husky frame squads just followed the map and ended up hitting the wrong targets. BUt is clearly stated in the written orders the correct targets.
AoM will be following the written orders.